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So something I have thought about a bit is providing there are no injuries or disease is it possible for anyone to get fast enough to go to Kona.  Given they are willing to commit the time and effort.  I have never trained well enough to know what I can get to but looking at 40-44 age group Port Mac 2019 the last qualifier was a 9:25

 

56 minute swim

5:04 bike

3:19 run

 

1:28 per 100 swim pace.  I am not sure I can do that for 100 let alone 3.8km

35.3kmh on the bike.  Again, not sure I could hold that for 5km, let alone 180.

4:43 min/km on the run.  My 10km pb is around that pace.

 

So, as a nearly 40 year old who has dabbled in the sport for nearly 10 years, has a 70.3 PB of 5:30 the idea of me doing a sub 9:30 iron man no matter how hard I trained seems beyond belief.  Similar to in golf I am a 4 handicap but the idea of getting to the really good amateur level of +2 or +3 seems beyond reach no matter how hard I worked at it.

 

I used to thing anyone who wanted it bad enough could get to Kona, but I am not so sure!

 

Note : This is not about me getting to Kona, just thought it might be an interesting general discussion!

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It’s not the hand I was dealt I’m complaining about it’s the legs I was dealt.  

Stop 'dabbling', and start dedicated training, if you genuinely want a slot. And get 3 years of that behind you first. Then see where you are at.

After I turned 40 I thought I'd do Kona as I had been inspired years ago by a segment on wide world of sports. Went to sign up and discovered you had to qualify. Id don a few 1/2s in my 30's - 5:15 to

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7 minutes ago, Toolish said:

1:28 per 100 swim pace.  I am not sure I can do that for 100 let alone 3.8km

The swim course at Port delivers some pretty quick times by the way...

  • Rolling start which gives drafting opportunities if you play it smart
  • A nice little current, but mostly flat, like a pool
  • Salt water which is around 22 degrees which is easier to get through - not like my local salt water pool which is a soupy 27 degrees 🤣

I just had a look at Busso and Cairns and their swim times for the same AG vary by about 5 minutes.  

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You need to pick a race also that suits your strengths. 
also sometimes a race like Canada 5 weeks before kona or even wis that’s the day before kona for the following year might increase odds. 
 

and if you are one of those people that gets upset about bike drafting, just forget about kona now.  At some point during the Ironman bike leg, you’ll need to draft as the people in your age group will be doing it and if you don’t, they have an advantage over you. 

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Stop 'dabbling', and start dedicated training, if you genuinely want a slot.

And get 3 years of that behind you first.

Then see where you are at.

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

... if you are one of those people that gets upset about bike drafting, just forget about kona now. 

But you still need to be near the pointy end of your age group. Drafting won't provide enough of the time gain I need to podium.

2017, my first top ten finish at Port. I heard the winner of my age group being called over the line as I started my last run lap. 🙄

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25 minutes ago, iFoz said:

But you still need to be near the pointy end of your age group. Drafting won't provide enough of the time gain I need to podium.

2017, my first top ten finish at Port. I heard the winner of my age group being called over the line as I started my last run lap. 🙄

yes, i firstly wouldn't worry too much about the swim. Just get out around 1.00 - 1.10, that is fine. 

Bike, that's where the money is. You would have to pretty much dedicate yourself to this area and even become a cyclist for a full year.

Run, you have the makings of being able to run a good marathon with smart training. You would need to focus on training for a marathon itself and run it under 3hrs. Once again, it would need dedicated training. 

So, i think it is all achievable but a year to get into the sort of cycling shape you need, plus another 6 months to get into the run shape and another 6 months dedicated to ironman training. 

Its is all possible, but based on where you are, you would need to work hard and spend the time. Best to get a divorce now...

Just my thoughts. 

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40 minutes ago, MJK said:

Stop 'dabbling', and start dedicated training, if you genuinely want a slot.

And get 3 years of that behind you first.

Then see where you are at.

Yep, exactly.

After getting my ass handed to me at Port Mac in 2016 I got serious with a coach, particularly running. Two failed starts in 2019 due to injury and illness, and nothing in 2020 from race cancellations, I’ve been able to maintain the rage throughout and hopefully Cairns this year we’ll just see what happens. 

Kona is a nice dream to have, but in my AG (male 40-44) I think you need to be at least sub 10, that’s the first step. I’d be surprised if I was able to achieve that, but we’ll see where the last 5 years of coached and dedicated training has got me.

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2 hours ago, Toolish said:

So something I have thought about a bit is providing there are no injuries or disease is it possible for anyone to get fast enough to go to Kona.  Given they are willing to commit the time and effort.  I have never trained well enough to know what I can get to but looking at 40-44 age group Port Mac 2019 the last qualifier was a 9:25

 

I think there comes a point where some degree of talent is required. As is evidenced by Lionel Sanders, he is throwing a significant amount of time and money at improving his swimming and not improving a hell of a lot. I think he averaged 1.24min/100m for a 1000 yard TT. I've adjusted the pace as it was in a 25 yard pool. And that's pretty slow for a professional triathlete who has committed a significant amount of time and resources.

Also I think it depends on the AG, and who turns up. 3 years ago I flatted twice and was 20mins of KQ, a year later in tougher conditions times were 30min+ quicker and I was way off KQ. 45-49 winner was 9 hours which is just insane. I reckon I could train to 9.45, but not much quicker. Primarily because of a lack of talent, lack of motivation to train 25 hours+ and my predilection for icy cold beer. I'll give it a crack next year when I move up to 50-54. Times are significantly slower. Winner of 50-54 was 40mins slower than 45-49. 

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16 minutes ago, zed said:

I think there comes a point where some degree of talent is required. As is evidenced by Lionel Sanders, he is throwing a significant amount of time and money at improving his swimming and not improving a hell of a lot. I think he averaged 1.24min/100m for a 1000 yard TT. I've adjusted the pace as it was in a 25 yard pool. And that's pretty slow for a professional triathlete who has committed a significant amount of time and resources.

Also I think it depends on the AG, and who turns up. 3 years ago I flatted twice and was 20mins of KQ, a year later in tougher conditions times were 30min+ quicker and I was way off KQ. 45-49 winner was 9 hours which is just insane. I reckon I could train to 9.45, but not much quicker. Primarily because of a lack of talent, lack of motivation to train 25 hours+ and my predilection for icy cold beer. I'll give it a crack next year when I move up to 50-54. Times are significantly slower. Winner of 50-54 was 40mins slower than 45-49. 

Looking at the next age group can give you false hope as often the fast guys you are racing now also move at the same time... 

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I'm too much of a realist to believe that anyone can qualify for Kona. There will be genetics, talent, biomechanics etc. coming into play. It's like telling all the other finalists in the 100m sprint that they can beat Usain Bolt if they really wanted it.

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14 minutes ago, pieman said:

Looking at the next age group can give you false hope as often the fast guys you are racing now also move at the same time... 

haha yeah it's definitely happened in WA with sprint OD and 70.3. 50-54 is lightening quick. Top 3 - 4 tend to be quick, but then it tails off whereas the younger age groups you have much more depth.

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A few years ago I had a work break and had the opportunity to train ~ 20 hour/weeks for just over 3 months. I greatly improved my times over all 3 disciplines.  I got fit enough and fast enough that I was only making marginal gains at the ends of the 3 months. However even if I trained full time for a year I do not think that I could get fast enough to qualify for Kona.  You need some level of talent/natural ability to qualify for Kona.

I was fortunate to be able to do Kona as a Legacy athlete in 2019. Awesome experience.

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Most people are capable of far more than they believe.  The more effort and dedication you put in, the closer you will get to your true potential.

However I do not believe that 'anybody' can qualify for Kona.

I've seen very good athletes continually posting IM times around 9h30m and always just missing out on a spot. While other more 'average' athletes in the same age group have been lucky (at different races) and grabbed a slot with 10+ hour finishes.

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5 hours ago, Toolish said:

So something I have thought about a bit is providing there are no injuries or disease is it possible for anyone to get fast enough to go to Kona.  Given they are willing to commit the time and effort.  I have never trained well enough to know what I can get to but looking at 40-44 age group Port Mac 2019 the last qualifier was a 9:25

 

56 minute swim

5:04 bike

3:19 run

 

1:28 per 100 swim pace.  I am not sure I can do that for 100 let alone 3.8km

35.3kmh on the bike.  Again, not sure I could hold that for 5km, let alone 180.

4:43 min/km on the run.  My 10km pb is around that pace.

 

So, as a nearly 40 year old who has dabbled in the sport for nearly 10 years, has a 70.3 PB of 5:30 the idea of me doing a sub 9:30 iron man no matter how hard I trained seems beyond belief.  Similar to in golf I am a 4 handicap but the idea of getting to the really good amateur level of +2 or +3 seems beyond reach no matter how hard I worked at it.

 

I used to thing anyone who wanted it bad enough could get to Kona, but I am not so sure!

 

Note : This is not about me getting to Kona, just thought it might be an interesting general discussion!


that’s quick at port Mac! If you get the year right at cairns 9.50-10.00 will get you the same result ie a KQ

How many hours per year of training do you do? (Say average over the last 3 years)?

You may find this interesting:

image.thumb.jpeg.513f35e48de7b264d458a9561efd1503.jpeg

 

 

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As I accidentally posted in a different thread, there is wanting it, and wanting it.

Kona, sure I want it.  But I don't want it!  And I'm ok with that.

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3 hours ago, zed said:

I think there comes a point where some degree of talent is required. As is evidenced by Lionel Sanders, he is throwing a significant amount of time and money at improving his swimming and not improving a hell of a lot. I think he averaged 1.24min/100m for a 1000 yard TT. I've adjusted the pace as it was in a 25 yard pool. And that's pretty slow for a professional triathlete who has committed a significant amount of time and resources.

Also I think it depends on the AG, and who turns up. 3 years ago I flatted twice and was 20mins of KQ, a year later in tougher conditions times were 30min+ quicker and I was way off KQ. 45-49 winner was 9 hours which is just insane. I reckon I could train to 9.45, but not much quicker. Primarily because of a lack of talent, lack of motivation to train 25 hours+ and my predilection for icy cold beer. I'll give it a crack next year when I move up to 50-54. Times are significantly slower. Winner of 50-54 was 40mins slower than 45-49. 

No, he did 1000y in 11:48, for an average of 1:10 per 100/yd. This equates to circa 1:17 per 100m. And he wore a speed suit.

But the thing is....he seems too have forgotten that almost 3 years exactly earlier, he swam a (much longer than the above 914m) 1500m in the pool...in a race, WITHOUT a speed suit, AND in a 50m pool (which he declares way slower for him in his 1000yd swim TT video) in 18:50.

That is an average of 1:15/100m, or 1:08/100 yards.

So, just over 2-secs per 100m faster, no speed suit, in a long course pool, and for 1500m, not 1000yd (914m).

For 1000y, it's probably closer to a 1:06 pace versus the 1:10 pace in his recent TT.

At the time he declared he had become a swimmer.

But no reference since or especially in current times to this swim, it's like he forgot he ever did it when you listen to his commentary about the current state of his swimming and the upside he does/doesn't see.

Granted, it was a race. But still odd that no reference to it, or response correspondence about it.

 

Recent 1000yd TT (914m) at 1:17/100m, short course pool.

 

 

1500m Swim Race 3 years ago, holding 1:15/100m average, long course pool.

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, MJK said:

No, he did 1000y in 11:48, for an average of 1:10 per 100/yd. This equates to circa 1:17 per 100m. And he wore a speed suit.

But the thing is....he seems too have forgotten that almost 3 years exactly earlier, he swam a (much longer than the above 914m) 1500m in the pool...in a race, WITHOUT a speed suit, AND in a 50m pool (which he declares way slower for him in his 1000yd swim TT video) in 18:50.

That is an average of 1:15/100m, or 1:08/100 yards.

So, just over 2-secs per 100m faster, no speed suit, in a long course pool, and for 1500m, not 1000yd (914m).

For 1000y, it's probably closer to a 1:06 pace versus the 1:10 pace in his recent TT.

At the time he declared he had become a swimmer.

But no reference since or especially in current times to this swim, it's like he forgot he ever did it when you listen to his commentary about the current state of his swimming and the upside he does/doesn't see.

Granted, it was a race. But still odd that no reference to it, or response correspondence about it.

 

Recent 1000yd TT (914m) at 1:17/100m, short course pool.

 

 

1500m Swim Race 3 years ago, holding 1:15/100m average, long course pool.

 

 

 

so he has gone backwards?

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39 minutes ago, MJK said:

No, he did 1000y in 11:48, for an average of 1:10 per 100/yd. This equates to circa 1:17 per 100m. And he wore a speed suit.

But the thing is....he seems too have forgotten that almost 3 years exactly earlier, he swam a (much longer than the above 914m) 1500m in the pool...in a race, WITHOUT a speed suit, AND in a 50m pool (which he declares way slower for him in his 1000yd swim TT video) in 18:50.

That is an average of 1:15/100m, or 1:08/100 yards.

 

A crude calculation, I got 1.17 pace, but came up with 1.24min/100m by adding 3 - 4s for the speedsuit (which is what I get in my swimskin) plus adding another 4s as it's a 25 yard pool. Most peeps quote their pace in a 50m pool. I'm around 4-5s quicker in a 25m pool.  It was a bit of a reality check going back to a 50m pool in December after 8 months of being in a 25m pool! 

I think Brendon Ford has done a video analysis of LS's swim technique, but I've not watched it. 

Didn't know he's now slower than he used to be! 

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14 minutes ago, Prince said:

so he has gone backwards?

It's probably those gumby GPS goggles he's wearing! If he wants to know his pace, he can just time alert on his watch. Works great.

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45 minutes ago, MJK said:

No, he did 1000y in 11:48, for an average of 1:10 per 100/yd. This equates to circa 1:17 per 100m. And he wore a speed suit.

But the thing is....he seems too have forgotten that almost 3 years exactly earlier, he swam a (much longer than the above 914m) 1500m in the pool...in a race, WITHOUT a speed suit, AND in a 50m pool (which he declares way slower for him in his 1000yd swim TT video) in 18:50.

That is an average of 1:15/100m, or 1:08/100 yards.

So, just over 2-secs per 100m faster, no speed suit, in a long course pool, and for 1500m, not 1000yd (914m).

For 1000y, it's probably closer to a 1:06 pace versus the 1:10 pace in his recent TT.

At the time he declared he had become a swimmer.

But no reference since or especially in current times to this swim, it's like he forgot he ever did it when you listen to his commentary about the current state of his swimming and the upside he does/doesn't see.

Granted, it was a race. But still odd that no reference to it, or response correspondence about it.

 

Recent 1000yd TT (914m) at 1:17/100m, short course pool.

 

 

1500m Swim Race 3 years ago, holding 1:15/100m average, long course pool.

 

 

 

1.10 per 100 yards short course is more like 1.21 per 100m LC.

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2 minutes ago, Nick777 said:

1.10 per 100 yards short course is more like 1.21 per 100m LC.

Correct,  I didn’t apply an additional slowing factor for that, which would indeed grow the differential further...the degree to which being dependent on how well you turn, or don’t.

Anyway, the main point is, he has been noticeably faster, he ‘seems’ to have forgotten, and it should offer up hope and new perspective....get back to that and call that baseline, and target improvement beyond that. 

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To date ive never commented on peoples abilities or training but this is an interesting subject so id like too.

First off,most coaches will tell you that with hard work and dedication you can get to Kona...….if they didn't you wouldn't sign up and pay them money so you need to take what some of them say with a grain of salt.

Secondly, you simply cant polish a turd.....you can make it smoother but if you don't have some genetic ability it wont happen.You will get better but it may not be enough to be fast enough to KQ.

If hard work and dedication were the only requirement we could all go 9.30.

I have a training partner who trains the house down in terms of hours and effort....but is still way behind me in the final result and is 17 years younger....he lacks natural genetics,this is a fact he cant hide.

There are hundreds like him.

Toolish,the fact is you need to be going 4.40 in a 70.3 before you even think about sub 10 in an ironman.Im 63 and do between 4.45 and 5.00 every year at Busso in May and I just get in the top 3 or so in the 60 to 64 group.

I still say over the ironman distance its not about the fastest its about the person who slows down the least in the back end of the run.

So can anyone qualify...….that is an absolute NO irrelevant of how much work you do.

ZED for sure as the age groups get older the depth decreses,the problem is the 3 or 4 guys who can qualify are still there and with 1 or 2 KQ spots vailable it aint going to happen.

Its a fact in WA that I have now competed against the same top guys in the age group for 5 or 6 age groups.....they just wont go away or die !!!!!!!!! 

Lionel Sanders is a classic example....he works his arse off but he simply doesn't have Frodenos genes.I like Lionel more as you just know how hard he tries.

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1 minute ago, zed said:

What is the latest on Kona 2021? Most likely just Pros? 

There will be age groupers there or they won’t run a race.  

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3 hours ago, Peter said:

There will be age groupers there or they won’t run a race.  

US will be back to normal shortly and looks like the UK, for example, will commence selected international travel (including to the US) from May so yep it will be on.  Only problem for us is that we'll still be locked in and vaccinations will probably still be on the distant horizon so you won't get there from here.

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6 hours ago, Triatx said:

To date ive never commented on peoples abilities or training but this is an interesting subject so id like too.

First off,most coaches will tell you that with hard work and dedication you can get to Kona...….if they didn't you wouldn't sign up and pay them money so you need to take what some of them say with a grain of salt.

Secondly, you simply cant polish a turd.....you can make it smoother but if you don't have some genetic ability it wont happen.You will get better but it may not be enough to be fast enough to KQ.

If hard work and dedication were the only requirement we could all go 9.30.

I have a training partner who trains the house down in terms of hours and effort....but is still way behind me in the final result and is 17 years younger....he lacks natural genetics,this is a fact he cant hide.

There are hundreds like him.

Toolish,the fact is you need to be going 4.40 in a 70.3 before you even think about sub 10 in an ironman.Im 63 and do between 4.45 and 5.00 every year at Busso in May and I just get in the top 3 or so in the 60 to 64 group.

I still say over the ironman distance its not about the fastest its about the person who slows down the least in the back end of the run.

So can anyone qualify...….that is an absolute NO irrelevant of how much work you do.

ZED for sure as the age groups get older the depth decreses,the problem is the 3 or 4 guys who can qualify are still there and with 1 or 2 KQ spots vailable it aint going to happen.

Its a fact in WA that I have now competed against the same top guys in the age group for 5 or 6 age groups.....they just wont go away or die !!!!!!!!! 

Lionel Sanders is a classic example....he works his arse off but he simply doesn't have Frodenos genes.I like Lionel more as you just know how hard he tries.

This discussion has been going on since TriChat in the early 2000's days.

We've had the same argument with the coaches ( AP and Jimmy C), and the " gifted athletes" saying," anybody can do it", " I'm nothing special, and if I can do it, you can too if you just want it enough".

Triatx has summed it up perfectly.

No matter what AG you are, if you don't have a natural ability to swim 4k in an hour, cruise 180km easy and still be in the top 10% of your AG, and then be a NATURAL runner that can just tick over km after km without slowing down at the top end of your aerobic capacity, say 5-5:30min/K( if you're under 65yo), then you might be in the hunt.

This comes from someone without the required natural ability that spent 10yrs training 15-20 hrs per week for 30 wks a year. Closest I got was 20mins short.

Thank goodness for the Legacy program so I could get Kona out of my system.😆

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9 hours ago, Dave T said:

This discussion has been going on since TriChat in the early 2000's days.

We've had the same argument with the coaches ( AP and Jimmy C), and the " gifted athletes" saying," anybody can do it", " I'm nothing special, and if I can do it, you can too if you just want it enough".

Triatx has summed it up perfectly.

No matter what AG you are, if you don't have a natural ability to swim 4k in an hour, cruise 180km easy and still be in the top 10% of your AG, and then be a NATURAL runner that can just tick over km after km without slowing down at the top end of your aerobic capacity, say 5-5:30min/K( if you're under 65yo), then you might be in the hunt.

This comes from someone without the required natural ability that spent 10yrs training 15-20 hrs per week for 30 wks a year. Closest I got was 20mins short.

Thank goodness for the Legacy program so I could get Kona out of my system.😆

AP did temper his comments on KQ being in reach for anyone who wants it enough when I suggested his test subject be Tyno (who happened to have been one of the last few posters in the thread before AP)...

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I think you definitely need to have an innate ability at at least one of the disciplines, and preferably bike or run. 
My personal experience was that given the time and adequate sacrifice I think I could have met those swim and bike times (my pbs were 59 swim and 5.15 bike) but there is just no way I can get that run time. 
My Mara PB is 3.29 and that took a dedicated run block where I didn’t swim or ride but ran multiple  times a week as per my program and then only just scraped in under 3.30, and it nearly killed me. :lol: 

Simply no way I could go faster again on tired legs. 
My legs seemed to be ok up to half IM distance, did a 4.45 ish at Forster but as soon as the run got beyond 20k I really suffered. 

 

I think if you got off the couch and found you had a knack for running 4 min ks and were prepared to put in the hard yards in the pool and on the bike then it is “possible” I’m just not sure how many people fit that bill. 

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I don’t know how bring Lionel into this convo is relevant to ag qualification. The pros definitely have genetics on their side, at least the absolute top of which Lionel is one. Unfortunately for him Jan is better. They’ve also got decades of dedication and an athletic background in most cases. 

 

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Plenty of reading over in Trigold as well. 

MJK summed it up best. 3 years consistency and see where you are at. Everything you read about triathlon training is consistency - yet we all go chasing the shiny new thing to help us short cut our way there and lose sight of this. All that said, you need to be able to run ‘well’ to KQ. That rules a lot of people out. 

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40 minutes ago, Kenneth said:

I don’t know how bring Lionel into this convo is relevant to ag qualification. The pros definitely have genetics on their side, at least the absolute top of which Lionel is one. Unfortunately for him Jan is better. They’ve also got decades of dedication and an athletic background in most cases. 

 

Jan is better than everyone. 
 

I guess if people want to bring Lionel into this convo. 
 

his first ironman was about a 10:30 I think.  And he didn’t qualify for kona 
 

so he’s taken a solid 2.5 hours off it turning pro.  

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Honestly, it may be less painful, about the same cost wise, and take about the same amount of time, to just be a shit athlete, with a life and family that love you, and aggressively target the legacy program!  3 to 4 years of doing every Aussie IM in 16hr50min, maybe some NZ, and you're there!  

Otherwise, talk to someone like @Cranky!  She did it after not really being in tri for a long time.  Find out what her pedegree was before she started triathlon?

My 70.3pb is 5:58, and was my first solo tri done with no runs over 10k, no rides over 40k and no swims over 2k.  So only 30mins behind you and at that stage I don't I could even have finished an IM, let alone even think of a qualifying time!  

if going to Kona is about being an elite, sure, give it a go!  But if it's about just getting to do Kona, as it would have been for me, absolutely go the legacy route!  Enjoy your training, enjoy your life, enjoy your races with no pressure other than cruising the line, and then go and have a blast at Kona.  I bet there is no legacy athlete that will tell you their kona experience was diminished because they didn't "qualify".

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@goughywith that time for your first half off that much training maybe you’re genetically gifted 😂

The only full I’ve done was a 15+ hour port mac. I would in no way recommend that people go after legacy by just making the cut off - why make the hurt go that long? 3-4 years of consistent training year round will make the races much more enjoyable and would see vast improvement. Doing a few longer weeks does fck all if there’s big breaks in between. 

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4 hours ago, roxii said:

I think you definitely need to have an innate ability at at least one of the disciplines, and preferably bike or run. 
My personal experience was that given the time and adequate sacrifice I think I could have met those swim and bike times (my pbs were 59 swim and 5.15 bike) but there is just no way I can get that run time. 
My Mara PB is 3.29 and that took a dedicated run block where I didn’t swim or ride but ran multiple  times a week as per my program and then only just scraped in under 3.30, and it nearly killed me. :lol: 

Simply no way I could go faster again on tired legs. 
My legs seemed to be ok up to half IM distance, did a 4.45 ish at Forster but as soon as the run got beyond 20k I really suffered. 

 

I think if you got off the couch and found you had a knack for running 4 min ks and were prepared to put in the hard yards in the pool and on the bike then it is “possible” I’m just not sure how many people fit that bill. 

Pity we didn't know each other back in the day. We would have had a Chris Legh vs Peter Reid finish.😆

My stand alone marathon PB was also 3:29, bike 5:20, swim 57:00.( Not all in the same year). The year I did the 5:20 bike, I thought, great all I have to do is run a 3:40 marathon and I'm off to Kona. Ran 4:15😂😂😂 Spent all my pennies on the bike.

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2 hours ago, Kenneth said:

@goughywith that time for your first half off that much training maybe you’re genetically gifted 😂

Gifted, or special?  Not necessarily the good type of "special" either!

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Pity we didn't know each other back in the day. We would have had a Chris Legh vs Peter Reid finish.😆

My stand alone marathon PB was also 3:29, bike 5:20, swim 57:00.( Not all in the same year). The year I did the 5:20 bike, I thought, great all I have to do is run a 3:40 marathon and I'm off to Kona. Ran 4:15😂😂😂 Spent all my pennies on the bike.

Pfft that’s nothing the year I went sub hour swim and 5.15 ish bike I ran 4.40 

Kaboom 

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On 09/04/2021 at 6:48 AM, Toolish said:

So something I have thought about a bit is providing there are no injuries or disease is it possible for anyone to get fast enough to go to Kona.  Given they are willing to commit the time and effort.  I have never trained well enough to know what I can get to but looking at 40-44 age group Port Mac 2019 the last qualifier was a 9:25

 

56 minute swim

5:04 bike

3:19 run

 

1:28 per 100 swim pace.  I am not sure I can do that for 100 let alone 3.8km

35.3kmh on the bike.  Again, not sure I could hold that for 5km, let alone 180.

4:43 min/km on the run.  My 10km pb is around that pace.

 

So, as a nearly 40 year old who has dabbled in the sport for nearly 10 years, has a 70.3 PB of 5:30 the idea of me doing a sub 9:30 iron man no matter how hard I trained seems beyond belief.  Similar to in golf I am a 4 handicap but the idea of getting to the really good amateur level of +2 or +3 seems beyond reach no matter how hard I worked at it.

 

I used to thing anyone who wanted it bad enough could get to Kona, but I am not so sure!

 

Note : This is not about me getting to Kona, just thought it might be an interesting general discussion!

 

After I turned 40 I thought I'd do Kona as I had been inspired years ago by a segment on wide world of sports. Went to sign up and discovered you had to qualify. Id don a few 1/2s in my 30's - 5:15 to 5:30. It was a big shock to see the qualifier times.

I decided first up jut to do ironman to see if I liked it before deciding if I wanted to try and qualify.  First year dropped my half time to 4:45 and did my first ironman at 10:15 (which was faster that my half time in my 30s).

It ended up taking  me a little under 3 years, dropping my half time to 4:15 (shame on young me) and snagging a spot with a sub 9:30 the first time I qualified.

Not a runner, or swimmer,  intermittent (not so good) cyclist before hand.

Self coached, very basic simple training plan - more or less the same all year around with one change of approach after  1.5 years. Pretty much none of the exotic sessions I see on the internet.  (just kept building). Key was consistency and measuring.

Most people I know who didn't qualify, where not consistent, gave up to early or just did some really weird shit training.

 

So to me, even you have a chance

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On 10/04/2021 at 7:43 AM, trilobite said:

AP did temper his comments on KQ being in reach for anyone who wants it enough when I suggested his test subject be Tyno (who happened to have been one of the last few posters in the thread before AP)...

Tyno was too lazy to ever apply himself 

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Uninterested, or lazy?  They are not necessarily the same thing!

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On 09/04/2021 at 9:40 PM, Dave T said:

This discussion has been going on since TriChat in the early 2000's days.

We've had the same argument with the coaches ( AP and Jimmy C), and the " gifted athletes" saying," anybody can do it", " I'm nothing special, and if I can do it, you can too if you just want it enough".

Triatx has summed it up perfectly.

No matter what AG you are, if you don't have a natural ability to swim 4k in an hour, cruise 180km easy and still be in the top 10% of your AG, and then be a NATURAL runner that can just tick over km after km without slowing down at the top end of your aerobic capacity, say 5-5:30min/K( if you're under 65yo), then you might be in the hunt.

This comes from someone without the required natural ability that spent 10yrs training 15-20 hrs per week for 30 wks a year. Closest I got was 20mins short.

Thank goodness for the Legacy program so I could get Kona out of my system.😆

Spot on. 
 

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On 09/04/2021 at 9:44 AM, MJK said:

Stop 'dabbling', and start dedicated training, if you genuinely want a slot.

And get 3 years of that behind you first.

Then see where you are at.

I don’t think Kona will happen in the next three years for Aus ppl. 
If it does they will have a big back log of legacy spots they will want to clear.

 

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On 09/04/2021 at 9:15 AM, Peter said:

At some point during the Ironman bike leg, you’ll need to draft as the people in your age group will be doing it and if you don’t, they have an advantage over you. 

Nah, I disagree with this comment, you don't need to draft.  You may 'choose' to draft, but you don't 'need' to draft.  I've been doing this sport for almost 30 years and have never intentionally drafted illegally to gain an advantage.  I'm not a big fan of drafting...  or drafters for that matter!

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On 09/04/2021 at 9:15 AM, Peter said:

You need to pick a race also that suits your strengths. 

I do however agree with this bit.  Your race choice will be very important.

And this bit...

On 09/04/2021 at 1:10 PM, Rob said:

Most people are capable of far more than they believe.  The more effort and dedication you put in, the closer you will get to your true potential.

However I do not believe that 'anybody' can qualify for Kona.

Plus I agree with the comments about consistency...  you need to be doing some sort of substantial consistent training.  Quantity, quality, and ideally a good mix of both.  Plus the necessary recovery required to be able to build upon that training.  This may still not get you to Kona, but it will help you get the best out of yourself.

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9 hours ago, Go Easy said:

I do however agree with this bit.  Your race choice will be very important.

And this bit...

Plus I agree with the comments about consistency...  you need to be doing some sort of substantial consistent training.  Quantity, quality, and ideally a good mix of both.  Plus the necessary recovery required to be able to build upon that training.  This may still not get you to Kona, but it will help you get the best out of yourself.

Everyone can improve with consistency and a good approach to training etc. I have been doing this with my cycling over the last three years (2019 =16225km, 2020=17918km,2021=6553km) I'm riding the best I ever have. I'm seeing a PT once a week to work on strength & conditioning (follow up sessions solo in the gym) eating well & drinking plenty of water. 

My climbing has improved & my FTP is close to 300w.....    Will I ever mix it with the skinny guys in the climbs (no way) I'm busting my ass to do a 16:10 up the summit. My mate who is the same height but is 9kg lighter than me is dropping 12:02 times up the summit. He has also only been back on the bike 3 years after a 20 years of chewing disco biscuits and donating his pay to the strippers.

I think you need a good mix of consistency and genetics to get to Kona. You also need some luck with who rocks up on the day, how many slots are allocated.

Without consistency and genetics I don't think you will get there. 

 

 

 

 

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On 09/04/2021 at 9:15 AM, Peter said:

You need to pick a race also that suits your strengths. 
also sometimes a race like Canada 5 weeks before kona or even wis that’s the day before kona for the following year might increase odds. 
 

and if you are one of those people that gets upset about bike drafting, just forget about kona now.  At some point during the Ironman bike leg, you’ll need to draft as the people in your age group will be doing it and if you don’t, they have an advantage over you. 

Yep, you have to be prepared to roll the dice and push the boundary of legal 12 metres. The KQ people will swim less then 60 minutes, as others point out Port is a good swim course to get that but you still have to train.

with a 5:30 PB HIM, suggest training on average 17 hours per week do a half IM and see where you end up.

People who have done it IZBones I think did it just doing a standard week, week after week. But riding at least 10 hours per week, Running at least 4 swimming at least 3. Will make a difference.

The hours between 5 and 7 in the morning are your friend, outside ride or zwift and you have 1.5 to 2 in the bag, Wednesday save for long run. Sat ride 4 hours, Sun ride 3 hours.

Fit the rest in you end up with 15 hours riding, you will destroy people and mainly ride aorund at 150 watts

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