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Weights those who do them, how do you time with tri training


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For me when I am increasing the weight that I lift I get very sore. Once that weight becomes "normal" for me I do not get so sore.

During the off season I increase my weights and lift to failure. When training for an event I reduce the weight that I lift a little and do a fixed number of reps that I know I can achieve.

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13 minutes ago, Ironnerd said:

For me when I am increasing the weight that I lift I get very sore. Once that weight becomes "normal" for me I do not get so sore.

During the off season I increase my weights and lift to failure. When training for an event I reduce the weight that I lift a little and do a fixed number of reps that I know I can achieve.

Suppose I have to think about my purpose for lifting, which is to stop looking anorexic

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I have a big issue with this too and have raised the same questions here.

Basically I have figured out that I am an anomaly. I will always get sore, and at best very fatigued, whenever I do strength work. Strangely, upper body strength work seems to adapt within  a few sessions and I no longer get DOMS, but lower body does not. DOMS for 2-3 days is normal.  I have found that BCAAs / whey based protein powder significantly reduces DOMS. 

As to timing, I will do the main strength session the day before a rest day and another the day before an easy run day. 

I am strength training for run specific stability and shoulder stability - not to bulk up. Strength for run speed will commence in Feb, so lord knows what DOMS I will be subjected to then...

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I do yoga, and when I can remember I drop and do some push ups.  I don't know how someone training for tri and working could fit in weights as well.

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9 hours ago, goughy said:

I do yoga, and when I can remember I drop and do some push ups.  I don't know how someone training for tri and working could fit in weights as well.

I do a PT session once a week. Currently doing it on Thursday nights. I have noticed a big improvement in my flexibility & strength on the bike. My upper body is more relaxed on the bike & im able to lock in my core more on long climbs.

Held an avg 327 watts for a 10:30 on a local climb recently to take 45sec of my Pb. Not bad on a tired legs. 
 

If I race (cycling) I move my PT session to the Tuesday to give my body an extra couple of days to recover. If I’m not racing I just look at the fatigue as character building. 
 

 

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32 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

I do a PT session once a week. Currently doing it on Thursday nights. I have noticed a big improvement in my flexibility & strength on the bike. My upper body is more relaxed on the bike & im able to lock in my core more on long climbs.

Held an avg 327 watts for a 10:30 on a local climb recently to take 45sec of my Pb. Not bad on a tired legs. 
 

If I race (cycling) I move my PT session to the Tuesday to give my body an extra couple of days to recover. If I’m not racing I just look at the fatigue as character building. 
 

 

Held an avg 327 watts for a 10:30 on a local climb recently to take 45sec of my Pb. Not bad on a tired legs. 

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I usually do them either at the start of the week (after the weekend's long workouts) or just before the weekend (after the mid week shorter but higher intensity sessions). Reason being it works as a good bridge between the longer sessions and the shorter, higher intensity sessions.

Don't get DOMS too much, but I don't lift very heavy weights. Since COVID started, I've not returned to the gym and just use a set of 20kg weights bought from Kmart and at 30 reps per exercise.

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Anyone who doesnt devote time to weights is kidding themselves. At any level if you are doing it properly you will go faster, feel better and may even (I currently do) not qualify for the podium in Australias' most ordinary rig competition. (side question ... have you ever looked at triathlon types, seen how much exercise they do and how absolutely terrible their bodies look? Terrible posture, shit body mechanics and a lot of them just need a good feed, or alternately they are waaaay overweight (Im not a triathlete anymore btw). 

In terms of weights... Ill bet you are all doing it wrong, and have absolutely no form, balance, coordination or core strength. I wonder how many of you can do a simple set of ten lunges on each leg with your back knee touching the floor and not fall over or strain your back. 

Excellent article on trainer road blog recently regarding weights for endurance sports, low reps, medium weight, concentrate on perfect form i.e. 3-4 sets of 8 reps of basic exercises, I like pushups on knuckles on swiss ball, lunges w swiss ball then weights, dynamic twists or medicine ball wall slam and floor slam, then dumbell power cleans, one leg leg extensions, squats, one arm bent over rowing, back raises with swiss ball, DEADLIFTS!!! with a deadlift frame and perfect form. 

Join a gym with a pool nearby and combine your session. If you do a hard session on the ergo get off and do a few one kay hard running repeats to vomit level. Run to the pool/gym, do a session and run home. A big (massive) failing I see is people not combining sessions in a strength based endurance sport combining... multiple disciplines. They have a nice little swim and a chat, go for a nice little jog with the ladies later and go for a little bike ride every second day on their fancy triathlon bike but completely lack the flexibility, strength or bike skills to ride on the aero bars that are a nice decoration. Then they try to ride on those bars with their flabby weak body with no core or back strength in a race and wonder why they are buggered..... haha.

Do a hard ergo session in the morning and go to the gym, get on the rowing machine and do a warm up, maybe do some running on the treadmill, and hit the weights. 3-4 days a week. 

From what I see most triathletes arent really interested in actually improving their performance its more of a lifestyle/social choice. Nothing wrong with that, but if you want to get better you can achieve a lot with a little. 

Train hard, race easy. Look better. Feel better. Have more time for other things. 

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1 hour ago, Callum Dalgleish McGregor said:

Anyone who doesnt devote time to weights is kidding themselves. At any level if you are doing it properly you will go faster, feel better and may even (I currently do) not qualify for the podium in Australias' most ordinary rig competition. (side question ... have you ever looked at triathlon types, seen how much exercise they do and how absolutely terrible their bodies look? Terrible posture, shit body mechanics and a lot of them just need a good feed, or alternately they are waaaay overweight (Im not a triathlete anymore btw). 

In terms of weights... Ill bet you are all doing it wrong, and have absolutely no form, balance, coordination or core strength. I wonder how many of you can do a simple set of ten lunges on each leg with your back knee touching the floor and not fall over or strain your back. 

Excellent article on trainer road blog recently regarding weights for endurance sports, low reps, medium weight, concentrate on perfect form i.e. 3-4 sets of 8 reps of basic exercises, I like pushups on knuckles on swiss ball, lunges w swiss ball then weights, dynamic twists or medicine ball wall slam and floor slam, then dumbell power cleans, one leg leg extensions, squats, one arm bent over rowing, back raises with swiss ball, DEADLIFTS!!! with a deadlift frame and perfect form. 

 

I’ll take that bet :) I’m confident I’m not doing them wrong :) What you have described is exactly what I have been doing. I’m also doing Turkish get ups, atomic push ups using a TRX, kettle bell work, single leg deadlifts, push press etc. I pay for a one on one private session once a week. It’s expensive but worth the money. I have noticed big improvements on the bike. I also find my posture when Sitting at my desk is a lot better. 

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The other thing I have noticed is my left / right balance has improved over the last six months. My left side was a lot weaker, esp when it comes to balance. We have been working on improving it, doing extra reps etc on the left side. Sounds strange but I just feel more balanced. 

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When I lift I go at it like a crazy man 3 * 8,10,12 to failure. I don't have an objective so its even worse, I find the best intro to body building programme and do that.

As I said I'm a complete moron, but I have managed to gain enough size to need a new wet suit in a 6 week cycle and even get my wussy body to a 46 chest

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4 hours ago, Callum Dalgleish McGregor said:

a) have you ever looked at triathlon types, seen how much exercise they do and how absolutely terrible their bodies look? Terrible posture, shit body mechanics and a lot of them just need a good feed, or alternately they are waaaay overweight (Im not a triathlete anymore btw). 

B) They have a nice little swim and a chat, go for a nice little jog with the ladies later and go for a little bike ride every second day on their fancy triathlon bike but completely lack the flexibility, strength or bike skills to ride on the aero bars that are a nice decoration. Then they try to ride on those bars with their flabby weak body with no core or back strength in a race and wonder why they are buggered..... haha.

A) some might say I need a god feed. And I like this look. 😀

b) I do most of my riding on the aero bars whenever I can. So getting aero for long periods is not an issue for me. But I get what you are saying.

Serious question: Given your the expert here can you advise what you see as the 3-5 most important stretching exercises we should be doing. I certainly need the advice.

And...oh.... feel free to post a pic of your physique so we all know what to be aiming for. :)

 

 

You are being a bit presumptuous in your comments and I get it and tend to agree in some part

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Foz there are enough pictures and vids of me on the interweb to well and truly satisfy yourself as to my dashingly handsome appearance.... Ive had my 15 minutes and then some. At my age and advanced deterioration with 22 pieces of metal in my body and counting Im just happy I have my hair and my teeth and my dick still works. Ive never had to run around in the shower to get wet. 

At the moment I look like a 57 year old version of Paul Gallen that has swallowed a pig whole. Or an oompa loompa, there isnt that much difference. 

As for the single most important stretchy thing you can do Id say a full range squat onto your haunches and hold it while rocking backward and forward on the balls of your feet and your toes. Like a baseball catcher... funny coincidence that. Id also say buy a pair of stretch bands and do some swimming exercises. Can you horizontally swing a broom stick over your head and back without moving your hands? 

I have completely and totally the wrong type of body for that silly triathlon business. Apparently my only attributes were a big lung capacity, long femurs and quote from a high ranking sports quack.. "a capacity to withstand high degrees of discomfort". Oh and a high degree of strength and flexibility. I put out more power in the aero position back in the day than I could in the normal roadie possie. Most people are the opposite. 

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Yeah me too, which isn't ideal in terms of this thread for running or climbing.  Good for swimming but everyone knows swimming doesn't really matter for IM.

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I’m in agreement with Callum on this one. Finding time for a weight session at least twice a week to compliment your run swim and bike training will pay huge dividends as you get older. Most people make the mistake of trying to do elaborate ( look it up in the dictionary, Peter) workouts. Keep it simple, keep it short and be consistent. Regularity will prevent the soreness that some you have posted about. 

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Great piece on trainer road that heavier weights lower reps (4 sets of 8 reps) and perfect form is actually the best way to go for cyclists and triathletes. The caveat is perfect form. Which means you have to go full retard to learn said form. Can you do a full deep squat? No weight just that. Ill bet you cant. Or a lunge with a swiss ball over your head? 

One exercise thats summarily useless for body builder types but is in my view very good for cyclists and triathletes/runners is the leg extension machine, with the primary sets done with one leg sitting off the side of the machine and doing them one leg at a time. Great way to stablise your patella and activate your VMO (a problematic muscle for most triathletes) adductors, abductors and the other top parts of your hips. 

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3 minutes ago, Callum Dalgleish McGregor said:

Great piece on trainer road that heavier weights lower reps (4 sets of 8 reps) and perfect form is actually the best way to go for cyclists and triathletes. The caveat is perfect form. Which means you have to go full retard to learn said form. Can you do a full deep squat? No weight just that. Ill bet you cant. Or a lunge with a swiss ball over your head? 

One exercise thats summarily useless for body builder types but is in my view very good for cyclists and triathletes/runners is the leg extension machine, with the primary sets done with one leg sitting off the side of the machine and doing them one leg at a time. Great way to stablise your patella and activate your VMO (a problematic muscle for most triathletes) adductors, abductors and the other top parts of your hips. 

Full range squat is context dependent.  Hip anatomy has a key role.  

Perfect form doesnt exist.  Form is individual based which requires context.  Context being, your anatomy, your injury history and current state of capacity.  

Low rep high load is the key for any endurance athlete.  If doing high rep low load you might as well just run or ride.  

Our body adapts to load, so presenting load is more important then trying to create a perfect so called technique.  

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12 hours ago, Greyman said:

I’m in agreement with Callum on this one. Finding time for a weight session at least twice a week to compliment your run swim and bike training will pay huge dividends as you get older. Most people make the mistake of trying to do elaborate ( look it up in the dictionary, Peter) workouts. Keep it simple, keep it short and be consistent. Regularity will prevent the soreness that some you have posted 

30Mins twice a week sure many can find. 

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4 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

30Mins twice a week sure many can find. 

I do ergo, then ride my pub bike over to the North Cronulla riots memorial surf club gym and pool, swim a few laps, do a session on the rowing machine so I get all nice and sweaty, perve at substantial array of delicious mums walking past, so some weights and then go and lie in the sun like a beached whale at South Cronulla. Im still old and fat but its a nice morning when I do that. Actually I might go and do precisely that now..... but its not sunny so I might go for a surf. Combine stuff. 

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23 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Full range squat is context dependent.  Hip anatomy has a key role.  

 

Actually hip strength, mobility and stability along with core, lower back and your arse has a key role way before the anatomical challenges present themselves. I would wager a tidy sum 99 percent have issues they can hugely improve right there. I have always had a strong arse hips and back, unfortunately I wore mine out and had to get new ones. But even with fake hips Im still comfortable squatting just nothing too heavy anymore. 

 

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1 minute ago, Callum Dalgleish McGregor said:

Actually hip strength, mobility and stability along with core, lower back and your arse has a key role way before the anatomical challenges present themselves. I would wager a tidy sum 99 percent have issues they can hugely improve right there. I have always had a strong arse hips and back, unfortunately I wore mine out and had to get new ones. But even with fake hips Im still comfortable squatting just nothing too heavy anymore. 

 

I wager perfect form doesnt exist like you say it does.  

So you wore yours out how did you do that?  With perfect form or inappropriate load?  

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56 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

I wager perfect form doesnt exist like you say it does.  

So you wore yours out how did you do that?  With perfect form or inappropriate load?  

Ill bite.

So a combination of a few things.... being big; running a lot; doing a lot of running with heavy logs on my shoulders and packs in the standard general purpose boot in the bush; doing a lot of track sessions; being a street cop and spending a lot of time on my feet; oh and pretending to be a pro triathlete while having a job.

And evidently having a 'hip and pincer' type shape in my hips. So poor genetics. None of which stopped me or stops me from having reasonably good form, or being able to pedal reasonably well even on a fixed gear post hip replacements, the oldest of which has its 20th birthday next month. 

I also have 11 screws and a plate in my right shoulder and collarbone and 9 screws and a plate in my left ankle. So 24 pieces of metal all up. But you just work on it and overcome it. 

Oh and having the ability to suffer a lot and endure discomfort. So I ground my hips away, like my teeth from being an angry determined little oompa loompa. 

If you think you cant, then you are right. If you think you can, then you are also right. Seems you are in the former category. The biggest obstacle most of us have is staring at us in the mirror. 

Edited by Callum Dalgleish McGregor
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4 minutes ago, Callum Dalgleish McGregor said:

Ill bite.

So a combination of a few things.... being big; running a lot; doing a lot of running with heavy logs on my shoulders and packs in the standard general purpose boot in the bush; doing a lot of track sessions; being a street cop and spending a lot of time on my feet; oh and pretending to be a pro triathlete while having a job.

And evidently having a 'hip and pincer' type shape in my hips. None of which stopped me or stops me from having perfect form, or being able to pedal reasonably well even on a fixed gear post hip replacements, the oldest of which has its 20th birthday next month. 

Oh and having the ability to suffer a lot and endure discomfort. So I ground my hips away, like my teeth from being an angry determined little oompa loompa. 

If you think you cant, then you are right. If you think you can, then you are also right. Seems you are in the former category. The biggest obstacle most of us have is staring at us in the mirror. 

PERFECT FORM again I will it doesnt exist.  Perfect for WHO.  Humans are not ROBOTS. 

So based in your perfect form you should be able to do everything with ease because you have perfect form.  

Kipochege squat mechanics based on your perfect form is key means he is shit, but can run a sub 2hr marathon.  

Maybe you should take up weightlifting with your perfect form.  

Torso length, leg length, hip socket anatomy, ankle anatomy,  Hypermobility all are factors are what a squat looks like.  So hence no perfect form.  Just what is best for you. 

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1 hour ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Low rep high load is the key for any endurance athlete.  If doing high rep low load you might as well just run or ride. 

Just out of curiosity...  what would be considered low rep high load vs high rep low load?  4x8 vs 3x12?  or more extreme?

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Nothing like a stoush about how to train. Issue I've faced is doing weights I'm shelled for doing SBR. Doing lots lower reps not sure what the purpose is.

Perfect form, well Tones is onto something, if you are doing the Bench Press or squat only going  for 15 % of the range then expect about 15 % of the benefit.

Range of movement is different for everyone and some people are going to be unable to do the perfect squat.

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2 minutes ago, Callum Dalgleish McGregor said:

4 x 8 (w a 20 rep warm up full range of motion).... but the fitness expert up there will probs disagree. I have no idea what Im talking about. Im just result focused. Im a slow learner and worked out all this stuff in my head a long time before I read about it. 

Those 4 * 8 will do it, my challenge and for others the original question was, when lifting like that assuming you are changing exercises, eg bench press, Incline DB press to change things up and going to failure.

That bloody well hurts for a while, while I can swim and a swim after wards is good therapy, it does impact.

Some days I swim 3-4k then hit gym for 45 minutes, but thats a few mars bars

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1 hour ago, Callum Dalgleish McGregor said:

4 x 8 (w a 20 rep warm up full range of motion).... but the fitness expert up there will probs disagree. I have no idea what Im talking about. Im just result focused. Im a slow learner and worked out all this stuff in my head a long time before I read about it. 

Considering I might have done a bit of study and an internship in the area of S&C and still continuing with study and delving in the actual process of the area rather then googling and using a blog to gather information I think have some concept of what is going on.  

SLOW LEARNER did you ever ask for help???? 

Wonder how you went when you were a cop and someone told you how to do your job would you give them a ticket because you can.  

Your advice is based on what works for you, which doesnt factor any other considerations.  

Now lets say i get 15 of my clients from various sports, realms of life and ask them all to squat none of them look the same.  My 200cm vfl player looks very different to my 155cm tennis player.  Why different lengths in torso compared to legs, one is female, one is male.  One has different sporting demands to the other but hey lets all train them the same and try and make them squat the same.  The similar constant is how they get loaded in relation to strength and their capacity to accept load.  This is called COACHING.  

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1 hour ago, Callum Dalgleish McGregor said:

4 x 8 (w a 20 rep warm up full range of motion).... but the fitness expert up there will probs disagree. I have no idea what Im talking about. Im just result focused. Im a slow learner and worked out all this stuff in my head a long time before I read about it. 

REPS range and SETS and LOAD are all dependent on training experience, volume of training and phase of overvall training volume in relation to their sport. 

Full ROM again is individual based and also dependent on what actually training.  High load Quarter squats are actually more beneficial and transfer for sprinters and runners but it is developing strength and power in how the muscles tolerate load in running.  

 

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5 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Considering I might have done a bit of study and an internship in the area of S&C and still continuing with study and delving in the actual process of the area rather then googling and using a blog to gather information I think have some concept of what is going on.  

SLOW LEARNER did you ever ask for help???? 

Wonder how you went when you were a cop and someone told you how to do your job would you give them a ticket because you can.  

 

Umm yeah Ive worked with a lot of people with various degrees over the years. The only ones in my experience that got any results or respect had actual experience and results in their resumes. I had to go all egghead for a few years and learn how to speak that adakemic language so I could get promoted and move up the tree... 

The slow learner quip was a piece of self deprecating humour as I massively take the piss out of myself on a daily basis and try not to take myself too seriously. Its a trait serious insects dont seem to have. Its probably why Jim Jefferies gets so many death threats in America. Not much humour over there at the moment. 

..... and ahh the old ticket quip. Yeah I didnt really write too many out after about oh 1989. Lets just say I was dealing with a different class of criminal. Unless it was a leb doing something stupid then it was a see how many I could write.... I found introducing uncooperative miscreants to the A-K section of the Sydney Telephone directory, putting them in a standard police issue locker and throwing them down 10 flights of stairs in the old hat factory or in later times helping them to cool down and quench their thirst at the same time by wrapping their head in a towel and turning the hose on were much more effective techniques. 

I actually caught a poor lost soul in my garage not all that long ago he was from Macquarie Fields and looking to borrow one of my bikes to ride home, but he seemed all hot and bothered after he fell over a few times so I helped him with that little towel and water technique. He was much more friendly after that, told me the names and addresses of all his friends and where he lived as well. When the nice Police officers came they laughed at the story, of course it was all made up. I did go and visit him a few weeks later out at Mac Fields, just he didnt know I had come to visit but I did leave him a calling card. I think he will pick another garage next time. Pity, I enjoyed making a new friend. 

Anyway I digress. You just keep doing your best there champ. Im glad you are so passionate about your subject. Im just a random idiot offering clueless opinions on the interweb. 

 

 

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On 20/01/2021 at 6:49 PM, Callum Dalgleish McGregor said:

Umm yeah Ive worked with a lot of people with various degrees over the years. The only ones in my experience that got any results or respect had actual experience and results in their resumes. I had to go all egghead for a few years and learn how to speak that adakemic language so I could get promoted and move up the tree... 

The slow learner quip was a piece of self deprecating humour as I massively take the piss out of myself on a daily basis and try not to take myself too seriously. Its a trait serious insects dont seem to have. Its probably why Jim Jefferies gets so many death threats in America. Not much humour over there at the moment. 

..... and ahh the old ticket quip. Yeah I didnt really write too many out after about oh 1989. Lets just say I was dealing with a different class of criminal. Unless it was a leb doing something stupid then it was a see how many I could write.... I found introducing uncooperative miscreants to the A-K section of the Sydney Telephone directory, putting them in a standard police issue locker and throwing them down 10 flights of stairs in the old hat factory or in later times helping them to cool down and quench their thirst at the same time by wrapping their head in a towel and turning the hose on were much more effective techniques. 

I actually caught a poor lost soul in my garage not all that long ago he was from Macquarie Fields and looking to borrow one of my bikes to ride home, but he seemed all hot and bothered after he fell over a few times so I helped him with that little towel and water technique. He was much more friendly after that, told me the names and addresses of all his friends and where he lived as well. When the nice Police officers came they laughed at the story, of course it was all made up. I did go and visit him a few weeks later out at Mac Fields, just he didnt know I had come to visit but I did leave him a calling card. I think he will pick another garage next time. Pity, I enjoyed making a new friend. 

Anyway I digress. You just keep doing your best there champ. Im glad you are so passionate about your subject. Im just a random idiot offering clueless opinions on the interweb. 

 

 

😂😂😂 The Return of the Jabbs.

Reminds me, I was talking to a TO marshal at the recent Huski Tri, he was saying he used to be a cop here in Armidale in the 80s and reminiscing about some of the things that went on.  Told him things have not changed, except they get let off now and are straight back at it.

He had a chuckle about how the main street in Silver City is still called 'Cook Street' given all the woke name changing going on atm.

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