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Dura-ace Di2 vs SRAM Red AXS


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Looking for a consensus from Trannies as to which they prefer and why

Im buying a built up bike, so ease of installation is not a concern but ease of set up or shift quality is

I was leaning towards Red but constant talk of front derailleur shifting issues (and associated chain dropping) has me concerned 

Thoughts?

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I hear shimano are releasing a wireless version soon. 

I understand Mollema had some words in a working review for SRAM if you youtube :) 

I really have no idea but I've read the advantages of the wireless system in set up and when batteries go flat.  I'm still on campy mechanical so I am an outlier :)  

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I'm in a similar boat, wanting electronic in my next toad bike, although I'm comparing Force AXS and Ultegra DI2.

First I was leaning towards AXS, then Ultegra...

Today I was told current DI2 is being phased out in a few months. So here I am going round and round in circles again...

Sorry, no real help here 

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1 hour ago, humdrum said:

I'm in a similar boat, wanting electronic in my next toad bike, although I'm comparing Force AXS and Ultegra DI2.

First I was leaning towards AXS, then Ultegra...

Today I was told current DI2 is being phased out in a few months. So here I am going round and round in circles again...

Sorry, no real help here 

Interesting.  I didn’t know that about DI2. 
 

what are they replacing it with. As someone who was a month out from dropping 8k on a new bike 

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I'm guessing 12sp DI2, which will require new driver system for wheels etc...

But this coming from somewhere selling their bikes with Sram. Although rumours are out there for new DI2.

Maybe phased out isn't quite the correct way to put it. But maybe with a new 12sp coming out, 11sp may get more affordable?

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16 minutes ago, humdrum said:

I'm guessing 12sp DI2, which will require new driver system for wheels etc...

But this coming from somewhere selling their bikes with Sram. Although rumours are out there for new DI2.

Maybe phased out isn't quite the correct way to put it. But maybe with a new 12sp coming out, 11sp may get more affordable?

And rumours about wireless as SRAM is eating market share. 

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Shimano will be 12spd and wireless very soon...

What I don't know is wether or not ultegra will come at the same time. I'm thinking that it will be 6-12 months behind as per the norm. 

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Thanks all

Problem is there have been rumors about 12 speed wireless Di2 for the last two years

I doubt it will be for a while yet because nothing has been seen at any of the tours and shimano normally tests with the pros for at least a while before anything is released 

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2 hours ago, Mr Tinman said:

rmally tests with the pros for at least a while before anything is released 

It's already being tested. There's been a few sightings. It's on its way soon. I didn't know they were keeping the wired versions that someone else mentioned. 

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Is this inside information or just speculation?

Normally anything new from Shimano is all over the net well before release and that just hasn't happened with wireless.

I would be pissed if I shelled out a motza for a new bike with Di2 only for wireless to be released a month later!

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23 minutes ago, Mr Tinman said:

Is this inside information or just speculation?

Normally anything new from Shimano is all over the net well before release and that just hasn't happened with wireless.

I would be pissed if I shelled out a motza for a new bike with Di2 only for wireless to be released a month later!

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/shimano-dura-ace-r9200/

Quote

There is something odd looking about the shape of both the front and rear derailleurs, with the front looking slightly chunkier than I’d expect. Nevertheless, I’m not convinced this is the new groupset.

I think the lighting is playing tricks and making familiar components look different. 

If you zoom right in on the rear derailleur it looks like the previous-generation R9150 cable is actually there, it’s just almost invisible against the cassette.

 

Quote

We know that Shimano has filed patents for wireless components in recent memory, but I don’t think the next generation of Dura-Ace Di2 will actually be wireless, or at least not fully. 

Going wireless would mean fundamentally changing the way Di2 works and up-ending the existing E-Tube ecosystem, which integrates with the STEPS ebike system

Current Di2 (no pun, etc.) runs off a single, large battery, with components connected at junction boxes – typically one at the stem and one inside the frame. 

Wireless would necessitate separate batteries and the adoption of a new communication protocol.

 

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I have seen that Bikeradar article before and you can clearly see the cable in the closeup of the cassette

I wonder if that actually is R9200 and the front and rear derailleurs are connected to the battery and each other via cable, but the shifters "talk" to the derailleurs wirelessly.

Maybe the best of both worlds. Still have a large capacity battery but easier to set up as the shifters are wireless.

If that was the case, it wouldn't be enough for me to regret buying the current Di2 other than the possibility that it is sold at a discount sometime in the future (which is typical for me)

 

 

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Guest Jim Shortz
20 hours ago, humdrum said:

I'm guessing 12sp DI2, which will require new driver system for wheels etc...

But this coming from somewhere selling their bikes with Sram. Although rumours are out there for new DI2.

Maybe phased out isn't quite the correct way to put it. But maybe with a new 12sp coming out, 11sp may get more affordable?

Probably the same freehub as the xtr 12spd 

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SO there is a guy on the weight weenies forum who says he has seen the new Di2 in a Skype meeting with Shimano but can't say anything more than "it was truly amazing"

It was also supposed to be test at this years Vuelta but that test was cancelled 2 weeks ago by Shimano Europe (he never gave a reason)

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3 hours ago, Mr Tinman said:

SO there is a guy on the weight weenies forum who says he has seen the new Di2 in a Skype meeting with Shimano but can't say anything more than "it was truly amazing"

It was also supposed to be test at this years Vuelta but that test was cancelled 2 weeks ago by Shimano Europe (he never gave a reason)

Interesting. So I guess this settles it. Shimano is too risky for buyers remorse - if you get the SRAM you won't have to worry about something better being released soon after you purchase ;) 

  • Haha 1
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Have got a bit more info out of this guy.

According to him, the next generation of D-A Di2 will be available in both wired (as now) and semi-wireless versions, all with PM

Semi -wireless will have wireless shifters. Charging of shifter batteries may also be via piezoelectric effect where simply riding will be enough to charge (Shimano has applied for a patent for this)

Mechs will still be wired to each other and to a battery

No time frame as to release.

How accurate any of that is I guess we won't know until its actually released.

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Guest Jim Shortz
4 hours ago, Mr Tinman said:

Have got a bit more info out of this guy.

According to him, the next generation of D-A Di2 will be available in both wired (as now) and semi-wireless versions, all with PM

Semi -wireless will have wireless shifters. Charging of shifter batteries may also be via piezoelectric effect where simply riding will be enough to charge (Shimano has applied for a patent for this)

Mechs will still be wired to each other and to a battery

No time frame as to release.

How accurate any of that is I guess we won't know until its actually released.

So you'll need to actually ride the bike to keep it charged... 🙄🙄🙄*

 

 

* sarcasm 

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More info

It appears that Di2 was infact being tested at the TdF but as the main visible difference is the lack of wires coming from the shifters coupled with the number of bikes now with integrated cockpits that hide the wires anyway, it wasn't picked up by anyone

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