Jump to content

SRAM eTap AXS vs Shimano Di2


Recommended Posts

I am sure the SRAM vs Shimano Case has been debated many times and might also have your typical diehard supporters in each camp, but I am a novice Triathlete When it comes to these types of group sets keen to understand any serious negatives about why I should not but SRAM over Shimano.

I know the Shimano mkt share is greater etc etc and my LBS sells both systems but was raving about the SRAM AXS. 

I am in process if buying/building a new Tri Bike and the LBS was keen for me to use SRAM AXS, after my research it seems to be the go, but I have never used SRAM, concerned about number of suppliers, knowledgeable mechanics of SRAM etc. 

Any thoughts from those that are not getting paid to sell SRAM would be good, experiences of SRAM vs Shimano etc. might help me make a decision in favour of one vs the other.... Thanks people.

Edited by Clayte
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, my setup is on road bikes

I put SRAM Force AXS on my new bike in December 2019, replaced a bike with Ultegra Di2.

Other than the how you shift, i couldn't tell you any difference in the shifting. on a TT bike this would potentially be the same between systems.

Both when setup just work. Usage and wear i have had no problems that would say one better than other.

I went with SRAM because i wanted 12 speed and powermeter. 

My son who is a bike mechanic loves SRAM because of the simplistically on setting up, no cables in the frame.

Key day to day difference is you have to regularly charge the SRAM batteries; i do it every 2 weeks, whereas Di2 did every 6 months.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

My mate just ordered an AXS Force Road groupset yesterday.  He has original Red etap he put on his TT bike a year or two ago himself.  Never had issues with it, and he's normally the guy who will take his bike to the bike shop for a service.  He did struggle with running all the internal brake cables though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, rory-dognz said:

Hi, my setup is on road bikes

I put SRAM Force AXS on my new bike in December 2019, replaced a bike with Ultegra Di2.

Other than the how you shift, i couldn't tell you any difference in the shifting. on a TT bike this would potentially be the same between systems.

Both when setup just work. Usage and wear i have had no problems that would say one better than other.

I went with SRAM because i wanted 12 speed and powermeter. 

My son who is a bike mechanic loves SRAM because of the simplistically on setting up, no cables in the frame.

Key day to day difference is you have to regularly charge the SRAM batteries; i do it every 2 weeks, whereas Di2 did every 6 months.

 

Thanks for that, I have heard easier to set up but surprised to learn you need to charge as often as you do vs. Di2 - AXS seems like a great innovation and excited about it but still unsure  - appreciate the feedback - cheers

Edited by Clayte
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Clayte said:

Thanks for that, I have heard easier to set up but surprised to learn you need to charge as often as you do vs. Di2 - AXS seems like a great innovation and excited about it but still unsure  - appreciate the feedback - cheers

The charging, I just do as if didn’t do routine would just run till flat; which is not a huge problem as can just swap battles over so rear delieur has power as does most of the shifting. I could set up so that SRAM talks to Garmin or phone and then would show me battery life, but a step to far for this simple old guy.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't the di2 a much larger battery that's fitted a somewhere inside the frame.  And it doesn't have to run a wireless connection.  Aren't the batteries in the shifters of ETAP a coin battery that you change every year?

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, goughy said:

Isn't the di2 a much larger battery that's fitted a somewhere inside the frame.  And it doesn't have to run a wireless connection.  Aren't the batteries in the shifters of ETAP a coin battery that you change every year?

Di2 is one battery in frame, all parts are connected via cables. this is charged via a charging cable into the junction box (generally on bars). The system is hard wired together.

SRAM AXS has batteries in all 4 components, the batteries on the derailleur’s have a separate rechargeable battery on each. There are no cables for the shifting on the bike. The system is wireless hence easier to install. The shifter batteries are as you say. The derailleur batteries you remove and put into a charging cradle to charge.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rory-dognz said:

Di2 is one battery in frame, all parts are connected via cables. this is charged via a charging cable into the junction box (generally on bars). The system is hard wired together.

SRAM AXS has batteries in all 4 components, the batteries on the derailleur’s have a separate rechargeable battery on each. There are no cables for the shifting on the bike. The system is wireless hence easier to install. The shifter batteries are as you say. The derailleur batteries you remove and put into a charging cradle to charge.

I thought the one battery that lasted longer was a benefit, but reading about it the issue with di2 is when it is flat you are screwed, the sram you can swap the deraillure batteries around and get at least one working. Same for shifting batteries. 

So, not a bad trade off. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, rory-dognz said:

Hi, my setup is on road bikes

I put SRAM Force AXS on my new bike in December 2019, replaced a bike with Ultegra Di2.

Other than the how you shift, i couldn't tell you any difference in the shifting. on a TT bike this would potentially be the same between systems.

Both when setup just work. Usage and wear i have had no problems that would say one better than other.

I went with SRAM because i wanted 12 speed and powermeter. 

My son who is a bike mechanic loves SRAM because of the simplistically on setting up, no cables in the frame.

Key day to day difference is you have to regularly charge the SRAM batteries; i do it every 2 weeks, whereas Di2 did every 6 months.

 

What this guys says.

I have two bikes:

1 x running SRAM Force AXS  and the other Di2

I have noticed a couple chain drops on the SRAM & the chain gets jammed between the frame & chain rings. First time I had to get the cranks removed to get the chain out. I spoke with the SRAM rep at the TDU & he put it down to the mechanic installing it incorrectly. I broke the frame before getting it adjusted.

Same thing happened to my mate on Sunday's bunch ride. He ended up needing to get picked up. 

SRAM 12 speed chain & cassette are also expensive compared to shimano.

I do like the quarq power meter that fits perfectly on the SRAM chainrings. It didn't miss a beat.

Appparrently my new BMC hit the shop today. Unfortunetly they won't have time to build it up until next Monday. So I should be back on SRAM sometime next week depending on weather.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm currently using Ultegra Di2 on my tri bike since 2015 (so none of this synchro shift etc. stuff) and when I'm back in Malaysia for holidays I ride my sister's with SRAM Etap. I find it harder to press the shift buttons on the side bars with the Etap but this could be easily fixed by cutting holes on the bar that goes around the shifters.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone, so really comes down to preference, costs seem to be similar and the SRAM AXS seem to be more innovative and slightly ahead of the game in bringing the wireless system to market with Shimano coming later and potentially/possibly at a significant cost / paired with Dura Ace only (initially anyway) from my sources of research. 

I might just take the lunge and give SRAM a go - cheers and thanks for the input.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I own bikes with both and will take Shimano any day of the week over SRAM. I find SRAM so finicky and prone to breaking, whereas Shimano works effortlessly, parts are cheap and easily to maintain. 

Edited by dazmuzza
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/06/2020 at 2:44 PM, dazmuzza said:

I own bikes with both and will take Shimano any day of the week over SRAM. I find SRAM so finicky and prone to breaking, whereas Shimano works effortlessly, parts are cheap and easily to maintain. 

Thanks Dazmuzza - great to hear from real life experiences 👍

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, dazmuzza said:

Note though - I haven't used electronic in either (I have mechanical on both). That may be different ballgame. 

I have both in electronic. I guess the best question to ask is what groupset will my next bike have.

its a tough call but I think I will go Shimano over Sram.

I like the wireless set up but how often will I be changing /taking the groupset off. I like the lack of cables. My new BMC will have all internal cables anyway. 


 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oooh, what ya getting?

Not that it'll ever happen, but I'd probably go etap on my bikes as one has no internal cable routing at all, and the other has a sealed up BB so can't get access to hook up junction boxes or battery.  But since most of my group sets are hand me downs from my mate, and he only put ETAP on his TT two years ago and it just arrived for his roadie, I'll have a long wait.

Edited by goughy
Link to post
Share on other sites

Chatting with my mate this arvo.  Didn't realise the largest chainring you can get with axs is 48.  Though paired with a 10 on the back, is about the same as 53/11.  He's going 46/33 front with 28/10 rear.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Been running this stuff for about 3 months now. The only positive thing I can say is that it has 24spd and that’s it. Always have run Shimano up until now but went with this because it came on the bike and was a good deal (I wonder why??). Biggest issue has been multiple times the chain comes off and that’s both off the small ring and the large ring - we’re talking 2 out of 3 rides and sometimes 2-3x within a ride. I’m so used to it now I can get it back on without stopping and, typically, the next change is absolutely fine. It’s been back to the shop and I get marginal improvements for a while which then disappear. I also find it so slow compared to Shimano to change gear particularly on the front rings. So if anyone wants to do a DI2 swap let me know...

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, truck said:

Been running this stuff for about 3 months now. The only positive thing I can say is that it has 24spd and that’s it. Always have run Shimano up until now but went with this because it came on the bike and was a good deal (I wonder why??). Biggest issue has been multiple times the chain comes off and that’s both off the small ring and the large ring - we’re talking 2 out of 3 rides and sometimes 2-3x within a ride. I’m so used to it now I can get it back on without stopping and, typically, the next change is absolutely fine. It’s been back to the shop and I get marginal improvements for a while which then disappear. I also find it so slow compared to Shimano to change gear particularly on the front rings. So if anyone wants to do a DI2 swap let me know...

I have had the SRAM Groupset back on the BMC & its been running awesome. No chain drops etc. The key is finding a mechanic who can set it up properly.

I'm tempted to swap you

That way both my bikes will be running SRAM

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah @truck, my mates finishing his setup off, and he used to have a chain keeper on his sram force he gave to me, and he's taken it back because he's read that plenty of people still use them with axs.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've run force as since dec 19.

Only dropped the chain once. Sounds like a setup issue. 

2 hours ago, truck said:

Been running this stuff for about 3 months now. The only positive thing I can say is that it has 24spd and that’s it. Always have run Shimano up until now but went with this because it came on the bike and was a good deal (I wonder why??). Biggest issue has been multiple times the chain comes off and that’s both off the small ring and the large ring - we’re talking 2 out of 3 rides and sometimes 2-3x within a ride. I’m so used to it now I can get it back on without stopping and, typically, the next change is absolutely fine. It’s been back to the shop and I get marginal improvements for a while which then disappear. I also find it so slow compared to Shimano to change gear particularly on the front rings. So if anyone wants to do a DI2 swap let me know...

I still get confused with the left shifter sometimes. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bored@work said:

Check out the Force axs Facebook user group. Plenty of tips on setting it up properly 

Thanks will do.  It's one of those really annoying problems that doesn't happen consistently so you keep thinking it's sorted out until the next ride when it happens.  Other option as well (as per your other comment) is I know a really pedantic mechanic who runs a small shop - wouldn't buy a bike there but could well be the guy to sort this out if I need him to.

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, truck said:

Thanks will do.  It's one of those really annoying problems that doesn't happen consistently so you keep thinking it's sorted out until the next ride when it happens.  Other option as well (as per your other comment) is I know a really pedantic mechanic who runs a small shop - wouldn't buy a bike there but could well be the guy to sort this out if I need him to.

Bikeology Brisbane if no other mechanic can sort it out..

 

doesnt help if you arent in Brisbane though.. 😀

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, pieman said:

Bikeology Brisbane if no other mechanic can sort it out..

 

doesnt help if you arent in Brisbane though.. 😀

That's exactly where I was thinking of taking it 😀  With another bike that had a rushed service done at 99 Bikes in Indro he took great pleasure in ripping apart what they had done and also what they should have done. That bike was literally unrideable after 99 had had it - I mean who doesn't properly test ride a bike after major work?? Bike was perfect after Bikeology fixed it.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

i think the owner of flight centre bought his son a bike chain and called it 99 bikes - also a distribution company called Advance traders who are the reps for BMC in Australia - starting to see why dealing with BMC was painful. 

but back on the topic - Shimano Di2 is flawless, 

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Bored@work, how do you have your shifting set up?  My mate had his first full ride with his AXS and it didn't miss a beat, and didn't look like having any issues with the front derailleur dropping or throwing the chain.  But he didn't have his setup with syncro shifting.  He's wondering if it's more likely to throw the chain if it tries to change front and rear derailleurs together?  But he doesn't know if it even moves them at the same time in syncro, or each one separately?

I need to get a washer to fit in between the force derailleur he gave me and my frame.  I can't get it running in the 11 cog without it clicking, even with the limit screw fully out.  

Also, does anyone know of a source for 8mm frame plugs?  No local bike shops have any, and the only things he said he could find online was a Jagwire kit for $90 that has tonnes of grommets and plugs in all different sizes.  He's just after 4 plugs for his ridley frame, in black or white.

Edited by goughy
Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎14‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 6:35 PM, Bored@work said:

You lost me at 99bikes..... 

These guys are good for gels & tubes.

Any surprises that Tri NSw have treamed with 99 Bikes.

Oh....and there other partner........ Virgin.

Surely those at TriNSw cementing these deals should be a touch smarter.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

Any surprises that Tri NSw have treamed with 99 Bikes.

Oh....and there other partner........ Virgin.

Surely those at TriNSw cementing these deals should be a touch smarter.

 

You forgot to mention Maccas sponsoring kids sports....

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Bored@work said:

Left button goes up the rear cluster, right goes down. Hit both buttons & the big chain ring moves up & down. 

 

Correct. I have eTap on my race bike. Its pretty sweet though the buttons on the cow horns I find a bit cumbersome and usuall use the ones on the end of my aero bars.

And the dual battery is a much better idea. The other day I went out and had not realised battery was getting low. Within 1 Km from home the rear deraillur battery failed. I was running late to meet some one so couldn't got home to re-charge battery etc so all I did was swapped batteries and called in big chain ring day. So the flat battery went on the front and the good battery went on the back so I could still change gears regularly. Was a tough morning - 142.95Km in big chain ring and 2093M of climbing.

The point is.... with 2 batteries - you have options.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
9 hours ago, goughy said:

My mate dropped his chain on a downshift of the chainring on Sunday..... so as him to the list who've had this.

Thanks for the reminder...My front deraillur was flat when i went out on Wednesday. Fortunately I wasn't doing too many hills. TT sessions 90Ks in a lazy 2:53 (865M of climbing only). I better go charge those batteries :) 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 09/06/2020 at 8:01 PM, dazaau said:

I thought the one battery that lasted longer was a benefit, but reading about it the issue with di2 is when it is flat you are screwed, the sram you can swap the deraillure batteries around and get at least one working. Same for shifting batteries. 

So, not a bad trade off. 

I think the Shimano system when the battery is low will stop using the FD and only allow rear shifts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Slowman said:

I think the Shimano system when the battery is low will stop using the FD and only allow rear shifts.

Yep, but will still allow one downshift on the front derailleur so you dont get stuck in the big ring

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, roxii said:

Yep, but will still allow one downshift on the front derailleur so you dont get stuck in the big ring

I can confirm this. Happened to me yesterday, 15 mins into my ride. 🙄 Had to return home to swap bikes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say it will depend what Shimano chooses to do next.
They are over due for an update and what they do with that update could completely change the list of pros and cons.
Sram and Shimano were compatible however the new Sram groups is designed to only work with those specific parts. 
Shimano may choose to do something similar in the next evolution of their group sets 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's not broke, why fix it?  What percentage of bikes out there are using Shimano vs Sram?  Is Ultegra di2 cheaper than Force AXS?  I've heard that bike shops like etap as it's less cabling to run.  But they obviously have the issue with dropping the chain, as my mates now getting it more often and is putting a chain catcher back on.  And etap could use an auto trimming function for when people are cross chaining (yeah, I know you shouldn't but plenty do).  I wonder if Shimano's next step will to offer it even further down the line to 105?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...