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Working out HR zones


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I’m interested in some ideas on working out appropriate training heart rate...

So for some data to work with:

The MAF formula would have me training to a 140bpm cap.

My last 1/2 IM average HRs were 167 on the bike and 174 on the run.

What do you think?

 

 

Edited by trilobite
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Curious if you are using a chest strap or wrist measurement?

I’ve started back using the watch to measure and it is clearly above what the chest strap use to tell me. Not there yet but I have to recalibrate as such to understand zones all over again.

First few sessions has me thinking I might be close to karking it with the numbers showing . 😂

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18 minutes ago, Jim Shortz said:

I find wrist HR highly inaccurate. 

 

Stick with the HR strap IMO 

 

@trilobite

Heart rate is so personalised and varied. Some people operate easy at 150bpm others operate easy at 120bpm 

Use it in conjunction with RPE for the best results. 

 

Good luck 

HR is from a Garmin chest strap.

What I had in mind was that, assuming an average HR from a 1/2 IM is indicative of, say, aerobic threshold, what % of that would you suggest doing most training kms.

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1 hour ago, trilobite said:

HR is from a Garmin chest strap.

What I had in mind was that, assuming an average HR from a 1/2 IM is indicative of, say, aerobic threshold, what % of that would you suggest doing most training kms.

Do you mean anaerobic threshold? 
Anaerobic threshold is normally what you'd expect to see over a 40-60 minute maximal effort, so might be a few beats higher than what you had from your 70.3. 

ps I don't think 174 is unreasonably high for a 70.3 run, mine is about the same (although I'm 4 years younger)

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1 hour ago, trilobite said:

HR is from a Garmin chest strap.

What I had in mind was that, assuming an average HR from a 1/2 IM is indicative of, say, aerobic threshold, what % of that would you suggest doing most training kms.

Mate that's a big question. 

Depends on your physiology and ego. 

 

If you take Lionel Sander for instance, his HR and lactate levels are low at what we would consider threshold efforts. HR depends on how long you have been active(in general and in Triathlon) as well as a dozen other factors. 

 

Ego - if you "think" you need to train "hard" or "fast" to be your best in Long Course Triathlon then your HR and RPE values will be high. If you have the maturity and time to train "easy" to get better in the sport then the numbers you see on your HRM will be significantly lower. 

 

My personal advice(quite an inexperienced and poor performing "Triathlete") would be to look at EVERY Matt Koorey Coaching video on YouTube and then make a decision. That's how I got as close to as fit as I could get. 

 

Most male AG athletes are too egotistical to slow down and train properly(my opinion on properly). 

 

RPE is the best way to learn how to train. Actually listen to your body and check out the numbers after the session and relate them to the sensations you had in that session. 

 

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51 minutes ago, Jim Shortz said:

Mate that's a big question. 

Depends on your physiology and ego. 

 

If you take Lionel Sander for instance, his HR and lactate levels are low at what we would consider threshold efforts. HR depends on how long you have been active(in general and in Triathlon) as well as a dozen other factors. 

 

Ego - if you "think" you need to train "hard" or "fast" to be your best in Long Course Triathlon then your HR and RPE values will be high. If you have the maturity and time to train "easy" to get better in the sport then the numbers you see on your HRM will be significantly lower. 

 

My personal advice(quite an inexperienced and poor performing "Triathlete") would be to look at EVERY Matt Koorey Coaching video on YouTube and then make a decision. That's how I got as close to as fit as I could get. 

 

Most male AG athletes are too egotistical to slow down and train properly(my opinion on properly). 

 

RPE is the best way to learn how to train. Actually listen to your body and check out the numbers after the session and relate them to the sensations you had in that session. 

 

On the basis that my HR was relatively stable for the race I took the average figures above from (eg didn’t start the run higher, then trail off walking the last 5km), I (perhaps mistakenly) thought it should be a fair proxy for some threshold?

In which case it might be a more accurate place to work training zones off than a MAF 180, less age 🤔

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On 23/02/2020 at 5:19 PM, trilobite said:

On the basis that my HR was relatively stable for the race I took the average figures above from (eg didn’t start the run higher, then trail off walking the last 5km), I (perhaps mistakenly) thought it should be a fair proxy for some threshold? 🤔

I think so too. Based on those numbers your max HR could be around 190-192 and lactate threshold around 174-175. Only way to get an accurate number is to find your real-world maximum, and you will need some real hard core motivation to hit that number. The number is not on a chart or a book. You wont find it doing any sort of hard ride or run in training. There are ways and means but none of them are very nice.

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2 hours ago, Derny Driver said:

I think so too. Based on those numbers your max HR could be around 190-192 and lactate threshold around 174-175. Only way to get an accurate number is to find your real-world maximum, and you will need some real hard core motivation to hit that number. The number is not on a chart or a book. You wont find it doing any sort of hard ride or run in training. There are ways and means but none of them are very nice.

I thought aerobic threshold and lactate threshold would be more useful to know than max HR for identifying HR ranges to train at for Olympic and longer tris?

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The MAF HR (180 less age) is a rough calculation to estimate your aerobic threshold. This is for Easy (aerobic) and Long Runs. It will (at least should) be way lower than your HR at any time during a Half Ironman. But quite often what people will use for a full ironman.  Breathing pattern for aerobic intensity is usually 3 strides per breath in and 3 strides per breath out. You should have no trouble talking in full sentences at this intensity.  Key benefits are building your aerobic engine (more efficient at burning fat for fuel) and allows you to build mileage with less risk of injury.  Over time your pace should increase for the same HR.

Lactate threshold is the intensity you can hold before the generation of lactic acid begins to increase exponentially (roughly the intensity someone could hold for 60 mins). Most common way to estimate this is the average HR from the last 30 mins of a 10km running race (or last 20 mins of a 30 min running TT).  Your longer intervals (eg. 5 to 12 min run efforts) can be done around this intensity.  Breathing pattern is usually 2 strides per breath in and 2 strides per breath out. Talking is possible, but more in short phrases than sentences.  If you start audibly puffing, you are moving above lactate threshold intensity.  Key benefits are learning to hold form and pace under fatigue and increase your speed for same lactate threshold HR.

Speed work (ie. 200s, 400s & 800s) on the track would typically be done at a higher intensity than Lactate Threshold, but would have longer recovery periods between intervals. Talking should be difficult, puffing is expected. Key benefits are developing better running technique and economy (especially if running with a group) and it make the slower race paces feel easier.

The intensity in between aerobic and lactate (where most people train) is the where you want to avoid as much as possible.  Too fast to get the same benefits as aerobic, too slow to get the same benefits of lactate. But fast enough to increase the chance of pulling up sore (which will probably affect the next training session).

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