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18 minutes ago, Katz said:

I think everyone can agree global eradication is the best possible outcome. 

 

13 minutes ago, chris said:

That’s never going to happen

 

9 minutes ago, gregb said:

Why not? 

Did for smallpox; right vaccine, administered to all. Mix in a bit of political will from all sides.

Suitable rona vaccine may be a while off. Assorted anti-vax lobby groups may mess with it.

Can be done, may not be easy.

Revisit this in 10 years and see who’s right. 
 

tipping Chris 

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Swab result - Covid negative. Just a coincidental illness. Means I can leave the house! Hooray! Have cancelled ambulance shift for Sunday because still feeling under the weather but back out again nex

On behalf of everyone else here on Trannies (apologies to those who I purport to be speaking for who don't share my view), mate, would you mind putting a lid on your intentionally inflammatory comment

Thought I'd check in with you all. Have to say I'm struggling a bit with redundancy, the virus and its knock on effects. Trying to stay positive but feeling quite 'isolated' over here now and starting

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Well ten years is way to early to judge "never" but the truth is there is no real imperative to eradicate it once a vaccine is found.  If spread can be limited then medical services have capacity to take care of most cases just fine.

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3 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Vic are doing the type of testing that can find this out. They are going to try to test 50% of residents of a couple of the affected suburbs. This will give us an idea of whether it really has been out there under the radar.

Additionally the bloodbank are now checking for antibodies with this exact reason in mind, to see how many people that didn't know they have had it actually have.

Good

About bloody time 

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4 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

.

Additionally the bloodbank are now checking for antibodies with this exact reason in mind, to see how many people that didn't know they have had it actually have.

Really?  Got a link to this?

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9 hours ago, Peter said:

 

 

Revisit this in 10 years and see who’s right. 
 

tipping Chris 

I also tip Chris. They have been working on Corona virus vaccines for decades. Not going to happen for a long time. If ever.

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So eventually, will the sad irony be that the countries that have failed to manage the virus will reach herd immunity, albeit at a great cost, before countries like us who have suppressed it well? 

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Well, from what I've read about in Sweden, herd immunity is going to take a lot longer than what they expected, so does that mean the death toll is going to be much higher than what they expected one they reach herd immunity?

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31 minutes ago, chris said:

Yes roxi and they will be in better shape also as tourism etc will be back 

We will be North Korea because it’s popular 

I still cant believe that Australia just lock VIC off from everyone and let it spread.

Sure a few will die, but it will hedge Australia's bets.

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3 minutes ago, Peter said:

I still cant believe that Australia just lock VIC off from everyone and let it spread.

Sure a few will die, but it will hedge Australia's bets.

It's the perfect opportunity to see what works, right?

Victoria can go for herd immunity.

The rest of us bubble up.

Short term we just lose a few Victorians, right?

I mean, there must be solid evidence that we've achieved herd immunity against something like Covid-19 for people to be advocating for it?

There must be heaps of other similar viruses we have defeated through mass infection alone, right?

 

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59 minutes ago, Tyno said:

There must be heaps of other similar viruses we have defeated through mass infection alone, right?

Black Death. Apparently it led to people with a stronger immune system surviving, so not only did herd immunity work, but it improved the human genome.

Of course it did take the death of 1/3 of Europe to get there.

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On 24/06/2020 at 10:27 AM, BarryBevan said:

35,000 cases and 864 deaths. After a few days of declining deaths, coming back to the 1000. Brazil looking ordinary and India bad and that is before you factor in low testing and poor records. Mexico and South America just a worry.

 

 

US & Brazil both above 40,000 yesterday. US now more cases/day than during the peak of the NY crisis.

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Good article in today's AFR.  Maybe time to start thinking about the damage being done elsewhere due to the covid-19 focus at all costs?

Virus hysteria misses bigger picture

Comment

 

John Kehoe

image.ashx?kind=block&href=AFR%2F2020%2F06%2F26&id=Pc0050300&ext=.jpg&ts=20200625161131
image.ashx?kind=block&href=AFR%2F2020%2F06%2F26&id=Pc0050200&ext=.jpg&ts=20200625161131

With the military on standby to fight the coronavirus in Victoria and political and media hysteria in full swing about a potential ‘‘second wave’’, new mortality statistics bring some desperately needed perspective to the COVID-19 situation in Australia.

More than 33,000 Australians died of other causes in the three months between January and March – chiefly cancer, influenza, pneumonia, heart disease, dementia and diabetes, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

The figures don’t fully capture some deaths such as suicides, which past recessions show will increase due to the pandemic lockdown inflicting job losses and social dislocation.

Only one person – a Victorian man in his 80s – has died from COVID-19 in the past month, and 104 people in Australia have died from the virus since early this year.

Almost 70 per cent of people who died with COVID-19 had pre-existing chronic conditions, according to the ABS data based on death certificates.

Most of those who sadly died were aged in their late 70s and 80s.

Doctors issued record amounts of death certificates in late March and for the first quarter of the year. But it wasn’t due to COVID-19.

Rather, there was a large jump in deaths attributed to non-COVID-19 respiratory disease, influenza, pneumonia, diabetes and dementia in the final week of March – well above historic averages.

More than 1200 people died from respiratory diseases in the month, and the week ending March 31 had the highest death count.

‘‘Excess mortalities’’ from non-COVID-19 respiratory diseases was 137 people above the five-year March average, a 13 per cent increase.

The rise in influenza and pneumonia deaths in the week ending March 31 was stark – the exact week panicky politicians imposed widespread shutdowns and people movement restrictions.

Maybeitwasaparticularlybad seasonaltimeforthefluorastatistical aberration.Butit’salsoplausiblethatthe lockdownandtheterrifyingwarnings scaredpeoplefromgoingtothedoctor andhospitaltoseektreatmentthatcould havesavedtheirlives.

A sonographer friend tells me she’s recently seen patients belatedly return for scans, only to discover new cancers had spread aggressively after people delayed appointments during the COVID-19 panic.

Unintended consequences and trade-offs like these, too often treated as taboo by politicians and innumerate people not trained in cost-benefit analysis, deserve a better public airing as Victoria tries to contain an uptick in virus numbers.

Politicians will be held and feel accountable for every single person who dies from COVID-19, but they will receive no scrutiny for under-the-radar deaths occurring on a much larger scale.

Nationally, 37 new coronavirus cases were reported in Australia as of Thursday.

Thirty-three new cases were in Victoria, after nine consecutive days of double-digit case growth. Of the more than 150 active cases in the state, less than 10 Victorians were in hospital.

It seems much of the community transmission was via extended families – some with limited English language ability to understand government rules – practising lax social distancing behind closed doors in homes. Other sick people broke rules by venturing out.

Thereislittleempiricalevidence peoplegoingto cafesandrestaurants weretheroot causeofthevirus spreading.Soit’sunfortunatethese businessesandtheir workerswillsuffer fromVictoriadelayingincreasingvenue capacitylimitsto 50people,fromthe current20peoplerule.

Chief Medical Officer Brendan Murphy recently told a Senate inquiry the most effective measure to stem the virus was the mandatory two-week quarantining of returned overseas travellers. Almost 70 per cent of cases were imported from overseas and there was minimal community transmission.

Great testing and contact tracing by health authorities, sensible social distancing rules and basic hygiene helped too.

Across the six other states and territories, there were zero new cases as of Wednesday. Yet there are claims we are verging on a second virus wave. Australia never really had a first wave.

We should remain alert to the virus. But responses must be proportional and not spiral into alarmism that risks sinking confidence and adding to the more than 1.5 million jobless.

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1 minute ago, truck said:

Good article in today's AFR.  Maybe time to start thinking about the damage being done elsewhere due to the covid-19 focus at all costs?

Virus hysteria misses bigger picture

Comment

 

John Kehoe

image.ashx?kind=block&href=AFR%2F2020%2F06%2F26&id=Pc0050300&ext=.jpg&ts=20200625161131
image.ashx?kind=block&href=AFR%2F2020%2F06%2F26&id=Pc0050200&ext=.jpg&ts=20200625161131

With the military on standby to fight the coronavirus in Victoria and political and media hysteria in full swing about a potential ‘‘second wave’’, new mortality statistics bring some desperately needed perspective to the COVID-19 situation in Australia.

More than 33,000 Australians died of other causes in the three months between January and March – chiefly cancer, influenza, pneumonia, heart disease, dementia and diabetes, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

The figures don’t fully capture some deaths such as suicides, which past recessions show will increase due to the pandemic lockdown inflicting job losses and social dislocation.

Only one person – a Victorian man in his 80s – has died from COVID-19 in the past month, and 104 people in Australia have died from the virus since early this year.

Almost 70 per cent of people who died with COVID-19 had pre-existing chronic conditions, according to the ABS data based on death certificates.

Most of those who sadly died were aged in their late 70s and 80s.

Doctors issued record amounts of death certificates in late March and for the first quarter of the year. But it wasn’t due to COVID-19.

Rather, there was a large jump in deaths attributed to non-COVID-19 respiratory disease, influenza, pneumonia, diabetes and dementia in the final week of March – well above historic averages.

More than 1200 people died from respiratory diseases in the month, and the week ending March 31 had the highest death count.

‘‘Excess mortalities’’ from non-COVID-19 respiratory diseases was 137 people above the five-year March average, a 13 per cent increase.

The rise in influenza and pneumonia deaths in the week ending March 31 was stark – the exact week panicky politicians imposed widespread shutdowns and people movement restrictions.

Maybeitwasaparticularlybad seasonaltimeforthefluorastatistical aberration.Butit’salsoplausiblethatthe lockdownandtheterrifyingwarnings scaredpeoplefromgoingtothedoctor andhospitaltoseektreatmentthatcould havesavedtheirlives.

A sonographer friend tells me she’s recently seen patients belatedly return for scans, only to discover new cancers had spread aggressively after people delayed appointments during the COVID-19 panic.

Unintended consequences and trade-offs like these, too often treated as taboo by politicians and innumerate people not trained in cost-benefit analysis, deserve a better public airing as Victoria tries to contain an uptick in virus numbers.

Politicians will be held and feel accountable for every single person who dies from COVID-19, but they will receive no scrutiny for under-the-radar deaths occurring on a much larger scale.

Nationally, 37 new coronavirus cases were reported in Australia as of Thursday.

Thirty-three new cases were in Victoria, after nine consecutive days of double-digit case growth. Of the more than 150 active cases in the state, less than 10 Victorians were in hospital.

It seems much of the community transmission was via extended families – some with limited English language ability to understand government rules – practising lax social distancing behind closed doors in homes. Other sick people broke rules by venturing out.

Thereislittleempiricalevidence peoplegoingto cafesandrestaurants weretheroot causeofthevirus spreading.Soit’sunfortunatethese businessesandtheir workerswillsuffer fromVictoriadelayingincreasingvenue capacitylimitsto 50people,fromthe current20peoplerule.

Chief Medical Officer Brendan Murphy recently told a Senate inquiry the most effective measure to stem the virus was the mandatory two-week quarantining of returned overseas travellers. Almost 70 per cent of cases were imported from overseas and there was minimal community transmission.

Great testing and contact tracing by health authorities, sensible social distancing rules and basic hygiene helped too.

Across the six other states and territories, there were zero new cases as of Wednesday. Yet there are claims we are verging on a second virus wave. Australia never really had a first wave.

We should remain alert to the virus. But responses must be proportional and not spiral into alarmism that risks sinking confidence and adding to the more than 1.5 million jobless.

Wow.  What an article.  
 

but hey, the politicians and medical officers need to stay the course of their power play. 
 

but this article is based on fact. Of which many here are scared of. 
 

i wonder if there have been any deaths related to airline workers that see no way out of their current situation? Probably.  Not to mention the other workplaces. 
 

104 people most with pre existing conditions. An app that can’t work. An economy screwed. And we are laughing at trump.  The USA might actually come out of this better than everyone. Was a coup for trump would that be.  
 

70 plus aged people scared of dying from Covid yet they are dying in record numbers from other things. If it wasn’t so serious you’d have to laugh. 

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

Wow.  What an article.  
 

but hey, the politicians and medical officers need to stay the course of their power play. 
 

but this article is based on fact. Of which many here are scared of. 
 

i wonder if there have been any deaths related to airline workers that see no way out of their current situation? Probably.  Not to mention the other workplaces. 
 

104 people most with pre existing conditions. An app that can’t work. An economy screwed. And we are laughing at trump.  The USA might actually come out of this better than everyone. Was a coup for trump would that be.  
 

70 plus aged people scared of dying from Covid yet they are dying in record numbers from other things. If it wasn’t so serious you’d have to laugh. 

I swear I did not write the article 

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

And we are laughing at trump.  The USA might actually come out of this better than everyone. Was a coup for trump would that be.

Certainly less Retirement Benefit for the federal coffers to have to worry about. :(

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21 hours ago, truck said:

Rather, there was a large jump in deaths attributed to non-COVID-19 respiratory disease, influenza, pneumonia, diabetes and dementia in the final week of March – well above historic averages.

...............

The rise in influenza and pneumonia deaths in the week ending March 31 was stark – the exact week panicky politicians imposed widespread shutdowns and people movement restrictions.

I'd love to know where he got his data from. According to the SA AMA President, there were only 36 confirmed flu deaths this year till the end of May, compared to over 900 deaths in the 12 months before. The graph below shows confirmed cases of flu this year compared to last year.

image.png.27d4c9d5d14fc61af5fe573efa5e41dd.png

 

Yes, last year was a bad one, but before all this started, we were actually on track for another bad one, and January actually had more cases than last year. Bring it forward to more recent times, and April only had 307 confirmed cases this year compared to over 18,000 last year, and May only 208 compared to over 30,000 last year.

Most epidemiologists are of the opinion that what we have done has saved far more lives from the flu this year than lives lost to Coronavirus in this country.

 

Edit to add: I found the stats on respiratory disease deaths, and yes, there was a spike at the end of March. And while he always puts influenza before pneumonia in his statements, and talks about the rise in influenza deaths, this is the comment that is placed with the graph that shows the spike on the ABS data.

Quote

The increase in the number of deaths in the week ending 31 March is attributable to an increase in pneumonia deaths rather than influenza. Influenza deaths in the first quarter of the year have been low and stable over time.

 

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen
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Saturday 

CORONAVIRUS UPDATE: 41 new cases in Victoria overnight. 8 linked to outbreaks, 1 hotel quarantine, 13 from routine testing and 19 under investigation. 260 community transmission. 204 active cases. 5 in hospital. 

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10 minutes ago, chris said:

It’s still very small numbers 

Agree. They expected these numbers. 
 

from Australia’s chief medical officer Brendan Murphy in today’s age 

Quote

We're very likely to see more outbreaks, not just in Victoria - it could be anywhere in the country," he observed mildly.

"We're prepared, we're responding and we're very, very comfortable with the way things are going."

 

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/brendan-murphy-the-steady-doc-who-became-a-star-makes-his-exit-20200626-p556l1.html

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The numbers are about to jump in South Australia apparently. Hopefully they can keep all 300 in hotels. Victoria can’t seem to do it. 

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On 26/06/2020 at 1:56 PM, Peter said:

104 people most with pre existing conditions. An app that can’t work. An economy screwed. And we are laughing at trump.  The USA might actually come out of this better than everyone. Was a coup for trump would that be. 

Meanwhile, Europe is placing a travel ban on US citizens.

Do you really believe our economy is going to be screwed worse than the US? Many of their states which re-opened prematurely are likely to be heading back into lockdown very soon.

How long do think it will be before the US is in a situation which is in anyway comparable to Australia?

The Aust government now has the luxury of choosing how we can reintegrate with the rest of the world.

The US is fractured with how it's dealing (or not dealing) with covid. And it's been that way since February and will remain so through to at least November, in a large part because Trump uses covid as a tool for political division.

If you believe the US is heading for a better outcome than Aust, would you be prepared to travel the journey to that outcome? If you could snap your fingers and move your family and employment to the US tomorrow, would you?

Because the costs are part of the outcome. The two can't be separated.

But hey, we've got an app, and it sucks.

 

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On 25/06/2020 at 11:56 PM, Peter said:

Wow.  What an article.  
 

but hey, the politicians and medical officers need to stay the course of their power play. 
 

but this article is based on fact. Of which many here are scared of. 
 

i wonder if there have been any deaths related to airline workers that see no way out of their current situation? Probably.  Not to mention the other workplaces. 
 

104 people most with pre existing conditions. An app that can’t work. An economy screwed. And we are laughing at trump.  The USA might actually come out of this better than everyone. Was a coup for trump would that be.  
 

70 plus aged people scared of dying from Covid yet they are dying in record numbers from other things. If it wasn’t so serious you’d have to laugh. 

The USA is stuffed. Texas and Florida trying to put a cap on it and locking down again. The North Eastern states have done ok, but we are still get 400 a day and double digit death. Florida had 9000 cases, now their death rate is nothing like peak of wave 1, but it is still not going to be good for 2020.

Assuming they can get control in 2020, 2021 will still see strict controls especially with Trump out of office.

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Is the USA really stuffed?  What percentage of the population is dying? 
 

I agree its stuffed In many ways.  But 200,000 dying from a population of 328.2 millions is a drop in the ocean. 
 

10,452 babies are born each day in the USA according to google. 
 

 

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6 minutes ago, Paul Every said:

Meanwhile, Europe is placing a travel ban on US citizens.

Do you really believe our economy is going to be screwed worse than the US? Many of their states which re-opened prematurely are likely to be heading back into lockdown very soon.

How long do think it will be before the US is in a situation which is in anyway comparable to Australia?

The Aust government now has the luxury of choosing how we can reintegrate with the rest of the world.

The US is fractured with how it's dealing (or not dealing) with covid. And it's been that way since February and will remain so through to at least November, in a large part because Trump uses covid as a tool for political division.

If you believe the US is heading for a better outcome than Aust, would you be prepared to travel the journey to that outcome? If you could snap your fingers and move your family and employment to the US tomorrow, would you?

Because the costs are part of the outcome. The two can't be separated.

But hey, we've got an app, and it sucks.

 

If it was not the USA everyone would pull out and ban any travel.

Yes as each region and Governor deals with it differently it flares up. The Constitutional right, freedom of movement is more important than the constitutional right to live.

The two people on this board who lived in the USA have and are coming back to Aus.

The President should have convened the Governors, the leaders of the house and said here we go:

1. Executive order, COVID is a Clear and Present Danger to American Lives and Liberty. As off today and for 4 weeks no travel is permitted except for essential services, food, 1 hour of outside exercise.

2. Our borders are closed except for returning Americans.

3. Quarantine will be served for 14 days along with testing for returning nationals.

4. Exercise the Defense Production Act and ramp up PPE, Ventilators and testing.

5. Testing.

6. Stimulus check for the initial 4 weeks (and longer) guaranteeing the median income along with debt, rent and mortgage measures.

Doing that would have reduced the spread, fatalities and set the platform for opening up. 

 

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7 hours ago, Peter said:

Is the USA really stuffed?  What percentage of the population is dying? 
 

I agree its stuffed In many ways.  But 200,000 dying from a population of 328.2 millions is a drop in the ocean. 
 

10,452 babies are born each day in the USA according to google. 
 

 

As of yesterday...... deaths per million of population has the USA positioned 7th highest out of 145 countries (Aus is 106th).

By mortality rate of Covid cases the USA sits at 3rd highest out of 142 countries. That’s despite Trump claiming only last week that the USA had one of the lowest Covid mortality rates in the world. Make of that what you will.

Edited by Mike Del
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51 minutes ago, Peter said:

I don’t care about the USA economy.  
why do you so much?

I was only replying to what you wrote. To me, it stood out as a peculiar thing to say.

I would say I have an interest in what's happening in the US.

I have a general interest in what happens around the world, particularly in countries where I have family (UK), or those where friends live, have come from or have family, or countries where I've traveled (long list, including the US), or countries to which I'd like to travel.

 

 

Edited by Paul Every
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29 minutes ago, Peter said:

Is the USA really stuffed?  What percentage of the population is dying? 
 

I agree its stuffed In many ways.  But 200,000 dying from a population of 328.2 millions is a drop in the ocean. 
 

10,452 babies are born each day in the USA according to google. 
 

 

 

200 K dead in a closed system is tragic, they just don't wake up. 

Millions communicating a potentially deadly disease with exponential growth is a big deal that leads to hundred of thousands of death with can multiply.

And each of those 200K are people who otherwise would have likely not died at that time

 

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56 minutes ago, Prince said:

How can Kona be held in feb ?   It must be doubtful and I don’t think any aussies will be able to get a flight   

Hawaii had 15 cases yesterday and is getting close to an Australia or NZ situation. Question could be will Americans be allowed to travel to Kona if it is held.

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41 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Hawaii had 15 cases yesterday and is getting close to an Australia or NZ situation. Question could be will Americans be allowed to travel to Kona if it is held.

Zero chance. The only way would be if Hawaii's COVID-19 situation was out of control. Could mainland Americans be banned and Australians and Kiwis allowed!? That would ruffle a few feathers.

Edited by zed
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9 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

The USA is stuffed. Texas and Florida trying to put a cap on it and locking down again. The North Eastern states have done ok, but we are still get 400 a day and double digit death. Florida had 9000 cases, now their death rate is nothing like peak of wave 1, but it is still not going to be good for 2020.

Assuming they can get control in 2020, 2021 will still see strict controls especially with Trump out of office.

Is most of the USA out of lockdown?

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2 hours ago, zed said:

Is most of the USA out of lockdown?

Texas and bits of California getting put back into it. The problem is the USA did lock down but was not committed so they got the economic pain without breaking the curve and spread.

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11 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

 

200 K dead in a closed system is tragic, they just don't wake up. 

Millions communicating a potentially deadly disease with exponential growth is a big deal that leads to hundred of thousands of death with can multiply.

And each of those 200K are people who otherwise would have likely not died at that time

 

But 200k would have died in car accidents, mass shootings, cancer.   
 

do the numbers with how many yanks die a day on average and compare to this year.

the numbers will be super close. Probably within a low percentage of difference. 

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2 hours ago, zed said:

Zero chance. The only way would be if Hawaii's COVID-19 situation was out of control. Could mainland Americans be banned and Australians and Kiwis allowed!? That would ruffle a few feathers.

If not much has changed by October and I was a serious US, EU, or GB pro with Kona qualification, I’d be heading to NZ or perhaps Aus and setting up a training base after sitting out a 2 week quarantine 

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1 minute ago, Mike Del said:

If not much has changed by October and I was a serious US, EU, or GB pro with Kona qualification, I’d be heading to NZ or perhaps Aus and setting up a training base after sitting out a 2 week quarantine 

For a pissant sport to do a race?  I can’t see many doing what you suggest.  

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So US population is 328 million.

Confirmed cases at 2.56 million with 127k deaths. 

If herd immunity is circa 80% that means they need 262 million cases which would equate to over 12 million deaths. 
 

That’s some scary numbers 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Peter said:

For a pissant sport to do a race?  I can’t see many doing what you suggest.  

Lol I didn’t suggest anything Peter, I said what I’d do if was in that circumstance if I could. 
I (me) could be wrong, but also the northern hemisphere winter might not be quite as suitable as summer in NZ or Aus for doing the training hrs required for the 3 months leading into an Ironman. 

What does “For a pissant sport to do a race?” mean anyway? You used a question mark, so are you asking me a question Peter? I don’t understand it.

 

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1 hour ago, Mike Del said:

If not much has changed by October and I was a serious US, EU, or GB pro with Kona qualification, I’d be heading to NZ or perhaps Aus and setting up a training base after sitting out a 2 week quarantine 

NZ only letting in citizens and permanent residents. And the odd essentials. 

Can't see a triathlete qualifying. 

Better to stay in Europe or USA and race there. Konami will only happen if Hawaii opens its borders and that will depend on the domestic USA tourist economy 

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1 hour ago, rory-dognz said:

NZ only letting in citizens and permanent residents. And the odd essentials. 

Can't see a triathlete qualifying. 

Better to stay in Europe or USA and race there. Konami will only happen if Hawaii opens its borders and that will depend on the domestic USA tourist economy 

Yes there’s a few family members and partners of the NZ Warriors that aren’t permitted to enter Australia 

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8 hours ago, Peter said:

But 200k would have died in car accidents, mass shootings, cancer.   
 

do the numbers with how many yanks die a day on average and compare to this year.

the numbers will be super close. Probably within a low percentage of difference. 

We will not know the answer to this for years. However early indications are that "excess" deaths are in the region of 15% to 25%

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f8-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

I suspect that the rate of excess deaths is about to greatly increase in the US as the Covid infection numbers continue to rise.

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21 hours ago, Peter said:

I don’t care about the USA economy.  
why do you so much?

Simple. Our share market gets COVID when the US share market sneezes. 

FM

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