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23 minutes ago, goughy said:

While most of us have said we would get it, I reckon there's lots who've been turned off by the stories.  A lot!  Our doc has said my wife should wait a bit longer, unless cases break out (granted my wife is still recovering from a serious hospital stay and has autoimmune conditions).  

Don’t get me wrong, there are some people who shouldn’t get it for some very good reasons. That’s why the rest of us need to in order to protect those that can’t. 

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Swab result - Covid negative. Just a coincidental illness. Means I can leave the house! Hooray! Have cancelled ambulance shift for Sunday because still feeling under the weather but back out again nex

On behalf of everyone else here on Trannies (apologies to those who I purport to be speaking for who don't share my view), mate, would you mind putting a lid on your intentionally inflammatory comment

Thought I'd check in with you all. Have to say I'm struggling a bit with redundancy, the virus and its knock on effects. Trying to stay positive but feeling quite 'isolated' over here now and starting

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4 minutes ago, FatPom said:

Perhaps stop reading stories and start reading facts.  It's not as if there is a shortage of reliable stats.

Given that most of the stats are being published by various organisations pushing their own agendas, I'd suggest that the last part of statement is slightly questionably.

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7 minutes ago, -- AJ -- said:

Given that most of the stats are being published by various organisations pushing their own agendas, I'd suggest that the last part of statement is slightly questionably.

Really?  I'd be interested to know what our agenda is, could you enlighten me with specifics and not just blanket accusations?

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2 minutes ago, FatPom said:

Really?  I'd be interested to know what our agenda is, could you enlighten me with specifics and not just blanket accusations?

Garbage In, Garbage Out.  If the source of the statistic is tainted (i.e. anything that comes from a politician) then what is published here is also tainted.

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4 minutes ago, -- AJ -- said:

Garbage In, Garbage Out.  If the source of the statistic is tainted (i.e. anything that comes from a politician) then what is published here is also tainted.

Omg.  So guessing anything an abc or bbc reporters says is tainted or from sky news etc..  

 

so who do you believe in our wonderful world of media ?

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3 minutes ago, -- AJ -- said:

Garbage In, Garbage Out.  If the source of the statistic is tainted (i.e. anything that comes from a politician) then what is published here is also tainted.

How on earth does a politician taint an statistic input, that's next level tin foil hat.  A politician deals with the output, not the input. So again, give me a specific example of what you are talking about, A cited, specific example of a tainted input (not output) that was a result of an agenda  when it comes to producing stat...

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2 minutes ago, Peter said:

Omg.  So guessing anything an abc or bbc reporters says is tainted or from sky news etc..  

 

so who do you believe in our wonderful world of media ?

This is the issue.  rather actually look at the source, people just go to their favourite news channel for confirmation bias. Which is about as useful as asking that well known virologist, Shazza that works part time at Coles, what the latest situation is. 😉

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2 minutes ago, Peter said:

so who do you believe in our wonderful world of media ?

To be honest,  there is no one media outlet that I'd go to and feel confident that I'm getting an unbiased, "just the facts" take on what is happening in the world.   Its got to the stage that I feel I must do my own fact checking.  A fact that was highlighted a couple of weeks ago when I quoted a story without fact checking it first and got (correctly) stung for it.

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1 hour ago, -- AJ -- said:

To be honest,  there is no one media outlet that I'd go to and feel confident that I'm getting an unbiased, "just the facts" take on what is happening in the world.   Its got to the stage that I feel I must do my own fact checking.  A fact that was highlighted a couple of weeks ago when I quoted a story without fact checking it first and got (correctly) stung for it.

Okay so let’s try again.

where do you get your facts from?

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9 minutes ago, Peter said:

Okay so let’s try again.

where do you get your facts from?

It’s not just facts it’s how they’re represented. Had C7 news on in the background just now (Qld) - they led with the tragic death of the 55yr old guy and inferred it was related to AZ jab he’d had 8 days earlier (that might be right but they haven’t determined a cause yet). Anyone listening would have then had second thoughts on the jab. Third story in was the horrors going down in India. I wonder if they’d led with that showing what happens when the virus lets rip and virtually no one is vaccinated and then later covered the 55y/o if people’s perception would be different?

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12 minutes ago, truck said:

It’s not just facts it’s how they’re represented. Had C7 news on in the background just now (Qld) - they led with the tragic death of the 55yr old guy and inferred it was related to AZ jab he’d had 8 days earlier (that might be right but they haven’t determined a cause yet). Anyone listening would have then had second thoughts on the jab. Third story in was the horrors going down in India. I wonder if they’d led with that showing what happens when the virus lets rip and virtually no one is vaccinated and then later covered the 55y/o if people’s perception would be different?

they go by a formula of what affects the viewer, which I guess is based on research. I am always astounded when there is a storm how it is always the number one story, regardless of what is happening in the rest of the world. 

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Whilst all valid, I’m still interested where AJ gets his facts from?

is it the Queensland CHO? Australians CHO.  Is it Tracey Grimshaw?

where do his facts come from and then the second part is,

will he be getting the AZ vaccine and why or why not, showing his factual research.

im personally getting the AZ in a few weeks because all the data world wide shows its better To get the AZ vaccine than no vaccine at all. 

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36 minutes ago, truck said:

It’s not just facts it’s how they’re represented. Had C7 news on in the background just now (Qld) - they led with the tragic death of the 55yr old guy and inferred it was related to AZ jab he’d had 8 days earlier (that might be right but they haven’t determined a cause yet). Anyone listening would have then had second thoughts on the jab. Third story in was the horrors going down in India. I wonder if they’d led with that showing what happens when the virus lets rip and virtually no one is vaccinated and then later covered the 55y/o if people’s perception would be different?

That's my point.  AJ is on about the presentation of the facts and trying to use the 'garbage in/garbage out' argument.  I'm asking where the garbage input is on producing stats, based on a predetermined agenda (his words) and all I hear so far is crickets.

 

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4 hours ago, truck said:

The point is there is no incentive to get the vaccine if the borders are, in effect, forever closed.  I mean, why would anyone bother? 

only need one leak out of quarantine

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5 minutes ago, Peter said:

Whilst all valid, I’m still interested where AJ gets his facts from?

is it the Queensland CHO? Australians CHO.  Is it Tracey Grimshaw?

where do his facts come from and then the second part is,

will he be getting the AZ vaccine and why or why not, showing his factual research.

im personally getting the AZ in a few weeks because all the data world wide shows its better To get the AZ vaccine than no vaccine at all. 

Sorry. to have kept you waiting.  Didn't realise my opinion was so important.  

1.  I get my information from the widest variety of sources I can and cross reference from other sources where possible.   Specifically, I'll generally start with OpinionPiece.com.au (aka news.com.au) and treating that with the lack of respect it deserves, cross check their facts with various official and unofficial sources.  Some sources I trust more than others....TV media is not one of them.   Admittedly I havn't had a lot of time lately to do anything but the absolute basics in checking and its let me down a couple of times now.

2. As I'm over 50, Its unlikely I'll get a choice as to which vaccine I'll get.   The only choice I'll have is when I'll get it.   But as you've stated most (if not all) the currently published data suggests that its better to get AZ than to not get vaccinated at all.  

2 minutes ago, FatPom said:

That's my point.  AJ is on about the presentation of the facts and trying to use the 'garbage in/garbage out' argument.  I'm asking where the garbage input is on producing stats, based on a predetermined agenda (his words) and all I hear so far is crickets.

No the Ashes series starts in November from memory.

What I'm saying is if you're getting your facts from (for example) the TV media then theres a good chance that the "facts" you're presenting have already been tainted by the agenda that the outlet is trying to push.  Obvious example of that was the last months of the Trump presidency.  In Australia we were getting told one thing but in the US they were getting different perspectives depending on where they were.

Now if you'll excuse me, Now that I've finished my dinner,  I've got about 400 hours of work to finish before the end of May.  :(

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4 hours ago, FatPom said:

Perhaps stop reading stories and start reading facts.  It's not as if there is a shortage of reliable stats.  Perhaps someone here may even know someone that works in that area. 🤣

I didn't say I'd been turned off.  I'm due my 2nd jab in June.  

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2 hours ago, FatPom said:

That's my point.  AJ is on about the presentation of the facts and trying to use the 'garbage in/garbage out' argument.  I'm asking where the garbage input is on producing stats, based on a predetermined agenda (his words) and all I hear so far is crickets.

 

I suspect the big issue here is about authoritative sources that can actually be trusted, needing to go through the filter of untrusted Media to get information out to people.

Remember, and this is not intended to be derogatory, the median IQ is 100, and a large part of the population struggle with critical thinking, and want to be able to rely on a trusted source of information.

However, polling continually indicates that people have largely lost trust in commercial media, and are mistakenly supplanting it with trust in social media - which is going from bad to worse.

When you have Murdoch press and shock-jocks telling lies and getting away with little more than a slap on the wrist from ACMA, even the ABC knowingly publishing incorrect stories, and then throw into the mix f-wit politicians such as Kelly and Christensen muddying the Govt messaging, it's perhaps not surprising that the average person is unable to sort fact from fiction.

This is leaving authoritative sources with a difficult problem of how to disseminate their facts, and have people trust them, when they are relying on an untrusted media and scumbag politicians to be their mouthpieces. 

You just need to look at Anthony Fauci and how his messaging was subverted in the USA by Trump and Murdoch Media, to see the problem.

 

Edited by Yogi Bearista
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Reference passports, this app has bee in use since mid last year here (UAE). It does contact tracing too. They've just announced that vaccination will be required to access any government services/buildings. The app also shows any travel taken, where too and when you got back. At the moment because I have the E in the circle, I am free to travel anywhere and return with no quarantine in Dubai at all. I do however work in Abu Dhabi and you must home quarantine for 7 days but as I don't live there, I am essentially just restricted from crossing the border. There are border checkpoints where you have to show the app. It's a pretty slick operation. Pretty much everybody I know is vaccinated. 

Screenshot_20210429-174556.jpg

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9 hours ago, -- AJ -- said:

Sorry. to have kept you waiting.  Didn't realise my opinion was so important.  

1.  I get my information from the widest variety of sources I can and cross reference from other sources where possible.   Specifically, I'll generally start with OpinionPiece.com.au (aka news.com.au) and treating that with the lack of respect it deserves, cross check their facts with various official and unofficial sources.  Some sources I trust more than others....TV media is not one of them.   Admittedly I havn't had a lot of time lately to do anything but the absolute basics in checking and its let me down a couple of times now.

2. As I'm over 50, Its unlikely I'll get a choice as to which vaccine I'll get.   The only choice I'll have is when I'll get it.   But as you've stated most (if not all) the currently published data suggests that its better to get AZ than to not get vaccinated at all.  

No the Ashes series starts in November from memory.

What I'm saying is if you're getting your facts from (for example) the TV media then theres a good chance that the "facts" you're presenting have already been tainted by the agenda that the outlet is trying to push.  Obvious example of that was the last months of the Trump presidency.  In Australia we were getting told one thing but in the US they were getting different perspectives depending on where they were.

Now if you'll excuse me, Now that I've finished my dinner,  I've got about 400 hours of work to finish before the end of May.  :(

That bit we can agree on but that doesn't mean it was garbage in.

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7 hours ago, Yogi Bearista said:

I suspect the big issue here is about authoritative sources that can actually be trusted, needing to go through the filter of untrusted Media to get information out to people.

Remember, and this is not intended to be derogatory, the median IQ is 100, and a large part of the population struggle with critical thinking, and want to be able to rely on a trusted source of information.

However, polling continually indicates that people have largely lost trust in commercial media, and are mistakenly supplanting it with trust in social media - which is going from bad to worse.

When you have Murdoch press and shock-jocks telling lies and getting away with little more than a slap on the wrist from ACMA, even the ABC knowingly publishing incorrect stories, and then throw into the mix f-wit politicians such as Kelly and Christensen muddying the Govt messaging, it's perhaps not surprising that the average person is unable to sort fact from fiction.

This is leaving authoritative sources with a difficult problem of how to disseminate their facts, and have people trust them, when they are relying on an untrusted media and scumbag politicians to be their mouthpieces. 

You just need to look at Anthony Fauci and how his messaging was subverted in the USA by Trump and Murdoch Media, to see the problem.

 

All good points but that doesn't mean an awful lot of people work incredibly hard to get good data.  I'll stop here, mainly because I'm pretty invested in the subject. 

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2 hours ago, FatPom said:

All good points but that doesn't mean an awful lot of people work incredibly hard to get good data.  I'll stop here, mainly because I'm pretty invested in the subject. 

Absolutely agree - but if the various sources of data who are doing the heavy lifting and should be trusted, are being undermined by opportunistic, self-serving media and politicians, then in the mind of the average punter those sources become less trusted - the 'alternative facts' syndrome.

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So now a PNG arrival made it into the bulk of the Brissy international terminal mixing with NZ bound peeps. 

Tested positive. (2 passengers, 1 positive, 1 negative)

Oh yay.  Lets see what happens........

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4 hours ago, Yogi Bearista said:

Absolutely agree - but if the various sources of data who are doing the heavy lifting and should be trusted, are being undermined by opportunistic, self-serving media and politicians, then in the mind of the average punter those sources become less trusted - the 'alternative facts' syndrome.

But we get that with everything now.

dare I say, look at usa politics.  (no need to discuss further)

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27 minutes ago, Turts said:

So now a PNG arrival made it into the bulk of the Brissy international terminal mixing with NZ bound peeps. 

Tested positive. (2 passengers, 1 positive, 1 negative)

Oh yay.  Lets see what happens........

nah all good.  it's not Victoria.  So they will be fine.

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35 minutes ago, Peter said:

nah all good.  it's not Victoria.  So they will be fine.

but you're forgetting this is QLD and a long weekend tonight.  Rule book says press conference at 2pm announcing 3 day lockdown for all of BNE and Ipswich but only effective from midnight tonight allowing people to leave and head to the SC and GC.

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8 minutes ago, truck said:

but you're forgetting this is QLD and a long weekend tonight.  Rule book says press conference at 2pm announcing 3 day lockdown for all of BNE and Ipswich but only effective from midnight tonight allowing people to leave and head to the SC and GC.

thats a given.

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Face it, state and Federally the pandemic had been handled both well and poorly.  We are exceptionally lucky to be physically fit off from the rest of the world.  They've had this national cabinet for what, a year now, and still blame each other for things.  The fact is, they should be working as a group, and anything gone wrong is up to all of them.  Stop acting like typical politicians and get your acts together!

Hotel quarantine should have been a stop gap measure.  It's clear a shared aircon structure is just not the best, with shared hallways.  6 months ago they should have been gearing up facilities made from demountables etc with individual aircon.  And should have set up enough facilities to get Aussies home that want to get home.  Not bloody cricketers and sports people.  Do we think we won't be quarantining people in a years time?  

And it looks shit when having a lockdown but stadiums are ok.  And sports people again get exemptions.  But Bluesfest, nah, that's no good!  But wealthy sports people and clubs, gotta keep getting their money, but other forms of entertainment, that's no good!  You want people to toe the line, well come up with a decent line and strategy to follow!  Act like grown-ups for a change.

 

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16 minutes ago, goughy said:

Act like grown-ups for a change.

In a past life they were all on the stern of the Titanic as it went under blaming each other for the deck chairs moving.

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26 minutes ago, goughy said:

Face it, state and Federally the pandemic had been handled both well and poorly.  We are exceptionally lucky to be physically fit off from the rest of the world.  They've had this national cabinet for what, a year now, and still blame each other for things.  The fact is, they should be working as a group, and anything gone wrong is up to all of them.  Stop acting like typical politicians and get your acts together!

Hotel quarantine should have been a stop gap measure.  It's clear a shared aircon structure is just not the best, with shared hallways.  6 months ago they should have been gearing up facilities made from demountables etc with individual aircon.  And should have set up enough facilities to get Aussies home that want to get home.  Not bloody cricketers and sports people.  Do we think we won't be quarantining people in a years time?  

And it looks shit when having a lockdown but stadiums are ok.  And sports people again get exemptions.  But Bluesfest, nah, that's no good!  But wealthy sports people and clubs, gotta keep getting their money, but other forms of entertainment, that's no good!  You want people to toe the line, well come up with a decent line and strategy to follow!  Act like grown-ups for a change.

 

You should run for parliament

 

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39 minutes ago, goughy said:

Hotel quarantine should have been a stop gap measure.  It's clear a shared aircon structure is just not the best, with shared hallways.  6 months ago they should have been gearing up facilities made from demountables etc with individual aircon.

As I posted earlier.

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020/10/national-review-of-hotel-quarantine.pdf

This is the Fed govt's own report into Hotel Quarantine, and a number of items that are identified include:

  1. HQ quarantine was mandated by the Fed Govt to be implemented and managed by the States
    i.e. Feds pay for it, States are responsible for it.
  2. The report acknowledges issues and limitations of HQ
  3. The report recommends creating a dedicated 'reserve' facility to deal with the issues such as the current emergency.
  4. The report indicates that Howard Springs already has a 3000 capacity - of which only a fraction is normally in use.

Basically, they already have a report telling them what we already know, but don't want to act on it, because that would require them accepting responsibility for it.

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

You should run for parliament

 

That might be the single funniest thing you've ever posted on this, or any forum.  Or ever uttered..... or thought (quietly or out loud).  I can't even effectively run my business into the ground!

I almost want to create a heap of fake accounts just so I can add more laughing responses to the post!  One is just not enough.

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4 hours ago, Turts said:

So now a PNG arrival made it into the bulk of the Brissy international terminal mixing with NZ bound peeps. 

Tested positive. (2 passengers, 1 positive, 1 negative)

Oh yay.  Lets see what happens........

If you clowns in the dumb state, cause us in Godzone to have to endure another lockdown then i will be pissed off.

So far no-one here seems to be panicking which is good. Although the boss goes to Melbourne on Monday so bringing back 2 week MIQ could be good from mid next week.

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For what its worth.  The latest directive from Queensland health

Guessing Queenslanders will be continuing to holiday at home for the foreseeable future.  Nobody is going to want to go interstate and get caught out being in a declared hotspot...again

Full blurb from here

Quote

People who have been in a COVID-19 hotspot in the last 14 days or since the start date identified for the hotspot (whichever is shorter) will not be allowed to enter Queensland, except for a limited range of people who can enter for essential purposes.

People who are permitted to enter Queensland who have been in a COVID-19 hotspot within the last 14 days or since the start date identified for the hotspot (whichever is shorter) will have to quarantine for 14 days at government arranged accommodation. Queensland residents who have been in a COVID-19 hotspot can return home by air and new residents can relocate to Queensland but, they will have to quarantine in government arranged accommodation at their own expense.

 

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34 minutes ago, Peter said:

Anyway. Over 50s can get the vaccine from Monday now. 
 

they have bought it forward from may 17th 

I went to the web site for that Ryde Respiratory Clinic that you posted up (thanks for that). It is about 2kms from home. It still tells me I have to wait until May 17th. I am happy to get it ASAP.

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9 minutes ago, Mr Flower said:

I went to the web site for that Ryde Respiratory Clinic that you posted up (thanks for that). It is about 2kms from home. It still tells me I have to wait until May 17th. I am happy to get it ASAP.

It was just announced today.  Could be a bit slow updating. 
 

im booked for the 18th but I’ll wander to Jeff’s shed on Tuesday and do a walk in.  

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1 hour ago, rory-dognz said:

If you clowns in the dumb state

Yeah, qlders aren't that smart? 

 

For once us Victorians aren't the trouble makers. 

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35 minutes ago, Mr Flower said:

I went to the web site for that Ryde Respiratory Clinic that you posted up (thanks for that). It is about 2kms from home. It still tells me I have to wait until May 17th. I am happy to get it ASAP.

I believe that the NSW plan for 50+ is GPs from May-3, and Clinics from May-17 - however, both are dependent on supply and the GP access is dependent on the GP... as always, clear as mud.

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14 minutes ago, Yogi Bearista said:

I believe that the NSW plan for 50+ is GPs from May-3, and Clinics from May-17 - however, both are dependent on supply and the GP access is dependent on the GP... as always, clear as mud.

Just remember that is state clinics, there is still the federal respiratory clinics as well. See the link I posted above. That’s where I got in. Booked a week ago, in on the 10th. Could have booked the 3rd but has a flu shot last week and didn’t want to cut it too fine 

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Interesting that in all the respondents here, most are over 50 and selling how they can get a shot. 

Anyone else here under 50? 🐢

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Caught up with a mate, similar age to me and pretty fit. Mentioned that I’d locked in the jab next week and, whilst he’s happy to get vaccinated and now can, just said he’d wait until the end of the year and get the Pfizer one. Not sure how much ScoMo has ordered but don’t think it’s 40M doses (2 per person). If a lot of people elect to do that we’re going to be in this position for a long time. 

Riding this morning I was thinking about alternative incentives to get this thing moving;

how about $200 cash for each dose? Tiny in comparison to the estimated $500M lost  every time Brissie shuts.

how about anyone who’s been vaccinated with at least one dose at least 3 weeks prior (immune response is up and running), gets to ignore all state border closures and local lockdown restrictions and just gets on with life?

Saw some data out of the UK showing only 1% of the hospital admissions in their second wave were vaccinated people. Seems to be another pretty good incentive to me. 

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1 hour ago, truck said:

Riding this morning I was thinking about alternative incentives to get this thing moving;

Why don't we just let people get on with their own lives, make their own decisions and live with the consequences of those decisions.    

2 hours ago, truck said:

Saw some data out of the UK showing only 1% of the hospital admissions in their second wave were vaccinated people. Seems to be another pretty good incentive to me.

Seems like a good incentive to me too. 

Why should we give money to people just to get them to do the right thing.   This country is getting like the Oprah show.   You get some money and you get some money and you get some money and....

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The only issue with people making their own decisions and living with the consequences, is when the consequences can effect other people?  Sure, if the decision was on whether to have a tetanus shot or not, and the only person getting sick was themselves.  But their decision can have an effect on umpteen other people!

Like with antivaxers against the current lot of everyday vaccines.  Don't want to vaccinate your kids, then you don't get govt assistance for childcare, you don't get family tax benefits, you don't get public schooling.  They still get the choice, but you minimise the effect on those around them.  At least as much as you can.  If your job requires you have the flu vaccine and you won't, you have to find another job.  

But how do you protect everyone around people who choose not to get vaccinated?  We know some won't be able to get vaccinated because of health reasons.  We're still not sure if the vaccine protects against catching it.  If it turns out it absolutely does, that might be game changing.  

Edited by goughy
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26 minutes ago, -- AJ -- said:

Why don't we just let people get on with their own lives, make their own decisions and live with the consequences of those decisions.    

As Goughy said! 

 

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1 hour ago, -- AJ -- said:

Why don't we just let people get on with their own lives, make their own decisions and live with the consequences of those decisions.    

Becasue in this case, individuals decisions affect more than just themselves - either by being a carrier to those that cannot be vaccinated, or in enough numbers, giving States and Feds the reason to keep things shut down. 

Like speeding and drink driving. 

If we knew an individuals choice to drive drunk or speed was only going to affect them, so be it.  But the chances their decision will affect others means there are laws around it, and consequences for breaking them. 

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