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2 hours ago, Prince said:

one thing that I do hope that is continuing is the research and development of new vaccines. I just get the feeling that very few of the vaccines may be a complete success and although I am no expert, it does appear this virus seems to be mutating at an alarming rate   I know the flu mutates pretty regularly, but the flu has been around for years   

I'm also no expert, only studying the basics to 2nd year level - barely on the same planet as the experts.

My understanding is that the vaccines have high efficacy against the variants they were developed for, but obviously unknown efficacy against those they weren't developed for.

Variants develop as mutations in the existing infected community, and obviously if you were able to magically obliterate all existing infection then you've also controlled new variants.

It has already been stated multiple times by the vaccine developers that we may well end up needing regular booster shots, at least until the infection rate is reduced to the point where variants stop developing, or develop slowly enough, that it can be essentially eradicated - similar to the way measles was - which currently has about 25 (?) known variants that we control.

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Swab result - Covid negative. Just a coincidental illness. Means I can leave the house! Hooray! Have cancelled ambulance shift for Sunday because still feeling under the weather but back out again nex

On behalf of everyone else here on Trannies (apologies to those who I purport to be speaking for who don't share my view), mate, would you mind putting a lid on your intentionally inflammatory comment

Thought I'd check in with you all. Have to say I'm struggling a bit with redundancy, the virus and its knock on effects. Trying to stay positive but feeling quite 'isolated' over here now and starting

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2 hours ago, Prince said:

Very well argued.  
one thing that I do hope that is continuing is the research and development of new vaccines. I just get the feeling that very few of the vaccines may be a complete success and although I am no expert, it does appear this virus seems to be mutating at an alarming rate   I know the flu mutates pretty regularly, but the flu has been around for years   

Doing some digging into the guys background there’s also a question as to whether or not he is conflicted - that’s not to take away that he might have valid points but it questions motive. Previous statements from him show that he’s been unhappy not to receive Federal funding for the vaccine development work he’s doing and has therefore gone at a much slower pace. It therefore could suit him for AZ jab to be undermined potentially offering him a future funding opportunity (I am not suggesting this was his motive but he’s clearly a bit upset). Paul’s observations I also agree are well thought through. 

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1 hour ago, MissJess said:

They only reduced it by 30% or something late last week, they have not stopped them.

As for not caring, I am in the "serves them right" camp. They have had huge festivals, they are still having their weddings (which are super spreader events), and going about life in the cities as per usual, where we have stopped our huge festivals and are still minimising contact as much as we can, especially with those vulnerable.

Still steamed about this guy who got a pass to get out and go to a wedding there and come back. A superspreader event in a country where its running rampant.

Who granted the pass out knowing where he was going 

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8 minutes ago, MissJess said:

Don't know, but theres more according to the media. He left in December 2020 to get married in India, then came back with his wife!

Yes but someone approved him going to a hotspot for a less than compelling reason

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2 hours ago, MissJess said:

They only reduced it by 30% or something late last week, they have not stopped them.

As for not caring, I am in the "serves them right" camp. They have had huge festivals, they are still having their weddings (which are super spreader events), and going about life in the cities as per usual, where we have stopped our huge festivals and are still minimising contact as much as we can, especially with those vulnerable.

Still steamed about this guy who got a pass to get out and go to a wedding there and come back. A superspreader event in a country where its running rampant.

As foreseeable as the outcomes from the gathering for Kumbh Mela might have been, it's pretty ****ing heartless to dismiss the painful deaths of so many as somehow deserving, purely because...? Because, what?.... Because they're Indian?

India is a complex country. For many of the country's 1.4 billion people, religious belief and tradition are inseparable from life itself. There is stark disparity between rich and poor, and consequently availability and access to medical care. Around 25% of the country is illiterate, with rates higher among women. 

But drawing unfavourable parallels with how we've behaved during covid is totally valid?  Cancelling Kumbh Mela is as simple as calling off Bluesfest, right? And those who have had the fortune of being born in India are somehow deserving of whatever may befall them?

I was chatting with an Indian friend earlier today. I was sure to ask how his family is faring back home. His parents have fortunately remained both careful and safe. So far. His brother-in-law survived a severe case of covid following a period on oxygen and plasma treatment.

I conveyed my happiness for his parents and relief for his BIL. 

What would you have said?

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1 hour ago, MissJess said:

Don't know, but theres more according to the media. He left in December 2020 to get married in India, then came back with his wife!

Was hoping Prince would answer:

https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/destinations/asia/india

It would be well the Federal Government.

Then WA ran the quarantine process

The danger in creating a hero villain bias preferred by Prince, when his "team" are winning is it doesn't help. Instead of focussing on learning lessons and collaborating, we look at blame, winners and losers.

The person almost certainly travelled before the ban:

  • critical workers providing assistance to the country of destination’s COVID-19 response;
  • persons undertaking travel in Australia’s national interest; or
  • persons seeking urgent medical treatment for a critical illness that is unable to be treated in Australia.

We collectively go this wrong, and are doing a good job of resolving it together

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Posted (edited)

I’m with you paul.  
 

Not one person in India wants Covid.

 

selfish people saying don’t let them come here are pathetic humans. they don’t have family trapped overseas. So They don’t care. 

Indian people wanting to come here should absolutely be allowed  

Ffs. It would be like winning lotto getting on a plane to come here and sit in hotel lockdown rather than on the streets dying and with death everywhere.  

If the uk was Covid free like us and Australia was being smashed, people here would pay anything to get out. Indian is no different.  

People are so selfish and self centred. 

Edited by Peter
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3 hours ago, MissJess said:

Still steamed about this guy who got a pass to get out and go to a wedding there and come back. A superspreader event in a country where its running rampant.

agreed. 

But he didn't bring it back to the country. 

He picked it up from another guest at the quaranitne hotel

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1 minute ago, Turts said:

agreed. 

But he didn't bring it back to the country. 

He picked it up from another guest at the quaranitne hotel

Which he wouldn't have been in had he stayed at home in the first place. How did going to a wedding fit into:

  • critical workers providing assistance to the country of destination’s COVID-19 response;
  • persons undertaking travel in Australia’s national interest; or
  • persons seeking urgent medical treatment for a critical illness that is unable to be treated in Australia.
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1 hour ago, MissJess said:

Don't know, but theres more according to the media. He left in December 2020 to get married in India, then came back with his wife!

The media I heard was he went overseas for a wedding. 

Came back, was in hotel quarantine. 

Was releasded. Spent a night with a woman and her children. Then severalnights at St Cathreines (?) then flew bakc ot Mleb to his family. 

The woman he stayed with got covid, so he was a close contact. 

Then they found he contracted it from his hotel neighbour. 

 

Has it changed? 

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2 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Which he wouldn't have been in had he stayed at home in the first place.

Or a multitude of other things, such as:

- if the infected person didn't travel here

- if the infected person was rmeoved to a special medi-hotel or such, and not in the "general population"

- if they did rapid testing

 

etc. 

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Just now, Turts said:

Or a multitude of other things, such as:

- if the infected person didn't travel here

- if the infected person was rmeoved to a special medi-hotel or such, and not in the "general population"

- if they did rapid testing

 

etc. 

yes but if he had stayed home he would not have got it.

 

That was in his an govt control. But we can always blame others rather than take   Personal responsibility 

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23 minutes ago, Turts said:

agreed. 

But he didn't bring it back to the country. 

He picked it up from another guest at the quaranitne hotel

Nup, that was the Victorian man. He picked it up through the hallways...

image.thumb.png.3fb1e2b4aa53dafb404f4fc40691492e.png

As for my comments about India, we cancelled ANZAC day last year, we pretty much cancelled Easter, the celebrations at the end of Ramadan were cancelled, Christmas was pretty much cancelled for most of Australia. I'd like to stay as close as we can to COVID free thanks. I'm sick of the constant demands to go back to the office when its spreading between hotel rooms, there are exemptions to the pre-departure testing, then people get infected while there, then they get out and sit in a cafe, or on a train or a bus (which we don't have to wear masks now) and infect those of us who have remained in place being careful. We have rules for a reason. 

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48 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Which he wouldn't have been in had he stayed at home in the first place. How did going to a wedding fit into:

  • critical workers providing assistance to the country of destination’s COVID-19 response;
  • persons undertaking travel in Australia’s national interest; or
  • persons seeking urgent medical treatment for a critical illness that is unable to be treated in Australia.

We obviously don’t know the full story and McClown and the media aren’t telling us 100% the facts. 

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9 minutes ago, Peter said:

We obviously don’t know the full story and McClown and the media aren’t telling us 100% the facts. 

Yes, does McGowan have the right to let him travel OS?

Who does?

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44 minutes ago, MissJess said:

As for my comments about India, we cancelled ANZAC day last year, we pretty much cancelled Easter, the celebrations at the end of Ramadan were cancelled, Christmas was pretty much cancelled for most of Australia. I'd like to stay as close as we can to COVID free thanks. I'm sick of the constant demands to go back to the office when its spreading between hotel rooms, there are exemptions to the pre-departure testing, then people get infected while there, then they get out and sit in a cafe, or on a train or a bus (which we don't have to wear masks now) and infect those of us who have remained in place being careful. We have rules for a reason. 

I understand all that. 

Here's what I don't understand.

 25 000 people died last week in India. Over the same week, 2.5 million were infected with covid.

In reality, those statistics represent just a fraction of the tragedy. It would have undoubtedly not included many impoverished people in rural areas who would have died outside the hospital system. Or those the many infected but unable to access a covid test.

4 hours ago, MissJess said:

As for not caring, I am in the "serves them right" camp. 

Yet somehow you deem these people deserving of their circumstances? And that you're a victim of yours?

Edited by Paul Every
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16 minutes ago, Paul Every said:

 25 000 people died last week in India. Over the same week, 2.5 million were infected with covid.

In reality, those statistics represent just a fraction of the tragedy. It would have undoubtedly not included many impoverished people in rural areas who would have died outside the hospital system. Or those the many infected but unable to access a covid test.

Yet somehow you deem these people deserving of their circumstances? And that you're a victim of yours?

Under-reporting is only part of the issue. World-wide, infection to death has been averaging 20-days, and early April was when they passed their 1st-wave peak, so we could now just be on the brink of seeking this disaster fully unfold.

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40 minutes ago, Yogi Bearista said:

Under-reporting is only part of the issue. World-wide, infection to death has been averaging 20-days, and early April was when they passed their 1st-wave peak, so we could now just be on the brink of seeking this disaster fully unfold.

Yep, absolute tragedy. I still don’t understand how India can have exported so much vaccine before focussing on its own needs? On the UK stats, they’re saying that 100,000 people would be alive today if the AZ vaccine (which as we know is being made at no profit) had been available at the start of all this. 

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2 hours ago, MissJess said:

Nup, that was the Victorian man. He picked it up through the hallways...

oh thats why im confused. 

Thats who I thought we were talking about - the Victorian guy. 

 

Got it now. 

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Despite all I’ve said about India. I’d be fine with leaving all these guys there. 
 

Australian white-ball stars Adam Zampa and Kane Richardson are on their way home from India to escape the country’s disastrous COVID-19 situation.

Royal Challengers Bangalore, the Indian Premier League club for which both bowlers play, announced on Monday that the pair were heading back to Australia “for personal reasons”.

Australian ODI spinner Adam Zampa is returning home from the IPL.CREDIT:GETTY IMAGES
They join fellow Aussie Andrew Tye, who officially opted out of the IPL on Sunday. He had been contracted to the Rajasthan Royals.

An abundance of other top-line Australian white-ball players including Glenn Maxwell, Pat Cummins, Steve Smith and David Warner are also in India playing in the tournament

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On 25/04/2021 at 4:21 PM, Prince said:

Here is a better article and not written by some  wanna be media hack. This is for the more savvy and intelligent folk with the source being one of the top medical professionals in Australia.    If you have any questions let me know. 
https://medicalrepublic.com.au/qa-why-we-shouldnt-rush-to-vaccinate/38865

 

There's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot.... maybe put the line down and get some new bait....lol.

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10 hours ago, Peter said:

I’m with you paul.  
 

Not one person in India wants Covid.

 

selfish people saying don’t let them come here are pathetic humans. they don’t have family trapped overseas. So They don’t care. 

Indian people wanting to come here should absolutely be allowed  

Ffs. It would be like winning lotto getting on a plane to come here and sit in hotel lockdown rather than on the streets dying and with death everywhere.  

If the uk was Covid free like us and Australia was being smashed, people here would pay anything to get out. Indian is no different.  

People are so selfish and self centred. 

Yes, time for the Federal Govt to open up our bases and help, especially Australians overseas.   I dont know whether the organisation that can't be named has run down our defence but saw Dutton said we are not up to it.  Rudd who use to run the show said we were. Seems anything to do with our borders, quarantine is just to hard for them. Sad times.

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17 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

Was hoping Prince would answer:

https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/destinations/asia/india

It would be well the Federal Government.

Then WA ran the quarantine process

The danger in creating a hero villain bias preferred by Prince, when his "team" are winning is it doesn't help. Instead of focussing on learning lessons and collaborating, we look at blame, winners and losers.

The person almost certainly travelled before the ban:

  • critical workers providing assistance to the country of destination’s COVID-19 response;
  • persons undertaking travel in Australia’s national interest; or
  • persons seeking urgent medical treatment for a critical illness that is unable to be treated in Australia.

We collectively go this wrong, and are doing a good job of resolving it together

Mgowan is the one doing the blame game here. No one knows why this person was accepted to travel, however, the issue is the mismanagement of the quarantine process by the WA Premier who only a few months ago, said he didn't want the Feds help and virtually became his own country. 

Now he wants the Feds to run quarantine because he stuffed up. Other states have successfully run quarantine Mr Mcgowan.....

As for the Aussies 'stranded' in India, well, I predicted India would be in a mess and one of the highest mortality rates due to covid about a year ago. 

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1 hour ago, Prince said:

Mgowan is the one doing the blame game here. No one knows why this person was accepted to travel, however, the issue is the mismanagement of the quarantine process by the WA Premier who only a few months ago, said he didn't want the Feds help and virtually became his own country. 

Now he wants the Feds to run quarantine because he stuffed up. Other states have successfully run quarantine Mr Mcgowan.....

As for the Aussies 'stranded' in India, well, I predicted India would be in a mess and one of the highest mortality rates due to covid about a year ago. 

So the person travelling for none of the categories specified is not an issue.

 

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13 hours ago, Peter said:

Despite all I’ve said about India. I’d be fine with leaving all these guys there. 
 

Australian white-ball stars Adam Zampa and Kane Richardson are on their way home from India to escape the country’s disastrous COVID-19 situation.

Royal Challengers Bangalore, the Indian Premier League club for which both bowlers play, announced on Monday that the pair were heading back to Australia “for personal reasons”.

Australian ODI spinner Adam Zampa is returning home from the IPL.CREDIT:GETTY IMAGES
They join fellow Aussie Andrew Tye, who officially opted out of the IPL on Sunday. He had been contracted to the Rajasthan Royals.

An abundance of other top-line Australian white-ball players including Glenn Maxwell, Pat Cummins, Steve Smith and David Warner are also in India playing in the tournament

if your job is cricket you get a charter flight!!

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9 hours ago, Plazbot said:

Good grief. Your cultural and social privilege is showing Karen. 

As is yours by using the name ‘Karen’ in that way and trashing all those other Karen’s out there being wonderful people. And yes I know a few. 

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32 minutes ago, truck said:

Shhhh! We have yet another long weekend this coming weekend....😬

Its alright, I have no plans to go anywhere.  Qld only does lockdown when I have plans🙄

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1 hour ago, BarryBevan said:

So the person travelling for none of the categories specified is not an issue.

 

it is an issue. But a Seperate Issue. The public servant who stamped this as approved should be sacked.

However, it is totally irrelevant where, how and why this person contracted covid. The fact that McGowan mismanaged the quarantine process is the issue here. 

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21 minutes ago, Prince said:

it is an issue. But a Seperate Issue. The public servant who stamped this as approved should be sacked.

I agree with this.  Assuming that the reason put on the application was what we're being told it was.  I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he lied on the application.

Just as an aside.  One of the morning breakfast shows said (and I have no idea whether this is true or not) that approximately 500K people have been through hotel quarantine over the past 12 months and to only have a really small number of failures is actually a good thing.  Obviously could be better but not the end-of-the-world that people are currently proclaiming it is.

Of course the fact that I was actually watching the pathetic spectacle that is Breakfast TV has me questioning whether the end of the world is nigh

Edited by -- AJ --
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20 minutes ago, Prince said:

it is an issue. But a Seperate Issue. The public servant who stamped this as approved should be sacked.

However, it is totally irrelevant where, how and why this person contracted covid. The fact that McGowan mismanaged the quarantine process is the issue here. 

It is not totally irrelevant. If they had never gone then they would not have been in quarantine. 
 

 

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19 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

It is not totally irrelevant. If they had never gone then they would not have been in quarantine. 
 

 

So you don't think there are others in quarantine with Covid?

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3 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

It is not totally irrelevant. If they had never gone then they would not have been in quarantine. 
 

 

It would have happened with another person sooner or later. 
 

just like it will again in nsw. Qld and Victoria.  
 

mistakes happen. 
 

but McClown saying its a Federal issue when he said he didn’t want Fed help 8 months ago is hypocritical 

his health department is completely at fault and trying to blame the feds is pathetic. And I hate Scomo and his pals but they are not to blame in the WA situation 

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7 minutes ago, Peter said:

It would have happened with another person sooner or later. 
 

just like it will again in nsw. Qld and Victoria.  
 

mistakes happen. 
 

but McClown saying its a Federal issue when he said he didn’t want Fed help 8 months ago is hypocritical 

his health department is completely at fault and trying to blame the feds is pathetic. And I hate Scomo and his pals but they are not to blame in the WA situation 

It was reported in the west he went for 4 months . Fine print over looked 

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Posted (edited)

Sadly the federal government has made the decision to possibly let Australians in India die. 
 

its a sad Day for all Australians if this happens

Edited by Peter
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Just now, Peter said:

Sadly the federal government has made the decision to possibly let Australians in India die. 
 

its a sad Day for all Australians if this happens. 

Or they could let Australians in Australia die.  Very much a damned if you do and damned if you don't decision.

Anyway, can't those who want to come home travel via NZ?

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4 minutes ago, Peter said:

Sadly the federal government has made the decision to possibly let Australians in India die. 

The Fed Govt's own report would seem to contradict Dutton's claim on the weekend that Howard Springs is not fit for purpose, and so could be implemented as an emergency quarantine facility if they wanted to accept responsibility for it.

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020/10/national-review-of-hotel-quarantine.pdf

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2 hours ago, chris said:

It was reported in the west he went for 4 months . Fine print over looked 

Fed gov't rules are that anyone can leave providing they are going for 3+ months.

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28 minutes ago, -- AJ -- said:

Or they could let Australians in Australia die.  Very much a damned if you do and damned if you don't decision.

Anyway, can't those who want to come home travel via NZ?

they are probably safer staying put and locking themselves in.  If they don't have covid now, they would most likely get in from a plane load of Indians. Besides, its only temporarily. 

Edited by Prince
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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, -- AJ -- said:

Or they could let Australians in Australia die.  Very much a damned if you do and damned if you don't decision.

Anyway, can't those who want to come home travel via NZ?

That’s why we have hotel quarantine.  
 

Edited by Peter
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15 minutes ago, Prince said:

they are probably safer staying put and locking themselves in.  If they don't have covid now, they would most likely get in from a plane load of Indians. Besides, its only temporarily. 

They were reporting on the radio that the pre flight testing in India is flawed.  
 

people aren’t getting it on planes.  They have it before they get on planes. 
 

maybe given Howard springs which hasn’t had a leak like the hotels and can take 2000 a fortnight should be used solely for Aussie being rushed out of India. 

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2 minutes ago, Peter said:

They were reporting on the radio that the pre flight testing in India is flawed.  
 

people aren’t getting it on planes.  They have it before they get on planes. 
 

maybe given Howard springs which hasn’t had a leak like the hotels and can take 2000 a fortnight should be used solely for Aussie being rushed out of India. 

i actually agree with you.  Now i am going to give myself an uppercut. 

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7 minutes ago, Peter said:

They were reporting on the radio that the pre flight testing in India is flawed.  
 

people aren’t getting it on planes.  They have it before they get on planes. 
 

maybe given Howard springs which hasn’t had a leak like the hotels and can take 2000 a fortnight should be used solely for Aussie being rushed out of India. 

Howard springs has an existing capacity of 3000 and can be extended.

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1 hour ago, -- AJ -- said:

Or they could let Australians in Australia die.  Very much a damned if you do and damned if you don't decision.

Anyway, can't those who want to come home travel via NZ?

No

NZ only accepts citizens and some residents. This has been policy all along. Exception being some work force exceptions.

For India NZ shut the door on 4th April for 2 weeks so may / may not resume tomorrow

Feeling here is very much keep those in the country safe as we are the ones who have had to do the hard yards. The team of 5 million, not team off 5 million and Johnny come lately. 

NZ has had a number of MIQ failures including similar to your WA one of being in next room.

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1 hour ago, Yogi Bearista said:

The Fed Govt's own report would seem to contradict Dutton's claim

And this is one of the enigmas of life.  How the hell does this bloke keep his seat (and even increased his margin at the last election) when on the surface he appears to have absolutely no idea about anything?

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