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The Secret to sub 10


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1 hour ago, more said:

That's exactly what I strive to do. Group rides are difficult though as most don't want to kick off until 6am. A 4 hour ride at that time has you home around 10ish, after shower etc it pretty much 11, days already half gone and depending on the mood you have a grumpy wife and kids. 

Kick off at 4am you are home by 8 and ready to have breaky with the fam at 9 and get stuck into the day. Everyone is happy-its s if you havent even trained.

Unless, for example, your 8 year old came into your bedroom at 4:30am (ie 1/2 an hour after you left and, depending on the mood, possibly / likely connected with you leaving the house) and woke your spouse up. Then your 6 year old wakes up at 5:30am and wakes your 4 year old in the course of doing so.

So when you arrive home at 8:xx your spouse is not kindly disposed to your triathlon past-time.

But it seems no-one on here has kids that do this or have very accommodating spouse or cash to burn on hired help...

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1 hour ago, more said:

That's exactly what I strive to do. Group rides are difficult though as most don't want to kick off until 6am. A 4 hour ride at that time has you home around 10ish, after shower etc it pretty much 11, days already half gone and depending on the mood you have a grumpy wife and kids. 

Kick off at 4am you are home by 8 and ready to have breaky with the fam at 9 and get stuck into the day. Everyone is happy-its s if you havent even trained.

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13 minutes ago, trilobite said:

Unless, for example, your 8 year old came into your bedroom at 4:30am (ie 1/2 an hour after you left and, depending on the mood, possibly / likely connected with you leaving the house) and woke your spouse up. Then your 6 year old wakes up at 5:30am and wakes your 4 year old in the course of doing so.

So when you arrive home at 8:xx your spouse is not kindly disposed to your triathlon past-time.

But it seems no-one on here has kids that do this or have very accommodating spouse or cash to burn on hired help...

What time do your kids go to bed? Ours go relatively late I guess-normally around 8-9 so they never wake up all that early. 

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4 hours ago, trilobite said:

In all seriousness, “wanting it enough” is worth 2/10ths of €%]# all if of your spouse does not look favourably on you consistently carving ~15 hours out of your week.

Any suggestions on managing spouse expectations?

I bring her a cooked breakfast in bed before I head off on my Saturday morning ride.  Also organise lots of date nights.

Note that my wife also does Triathlon, just doesn't train anywhere near as much as I do.  And my 3 kids are all in their 20's.

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48 minutes ago, trilobite said:

Unless, for example, your 8 year old came into your bedroom at 4:30am (ie 1/2 an hour after you left and, depending on the mood, possibly / likely connected with you leaving the house) and woke your spouse up. Then your 6 year old wakes up at 5:30am and wakes your 4 year old in the course of doing so.

So when you arrive home at 8:xx your spouse is not kindly disposed to your triathlon past-time.

But it seems no-one on here has kids that do this or have very accommodating spouse or cash to burn on hired help...

Using your example, long course isnt right for you at the moment.

Stick to just running or sprint tris would be my opinion.

The best thing we did was get miss 7 a fitbit when she was 5.  It has the time on it.  She isn't allowed to get out of bed until 7am (other than go to the toilet).  Its worked extremely well for the last 2 years.  There is the odd morning she gets up earlier but that would be 1 in 20 days.

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On 28/01/2020 at 3:50 PM, Bored@work said:

I like this approach. When I was being coached this is exactly what we did. I didn’t have a rest day the entire program (except travel days to the USA) 

I got an old friend who bangs on about the importance of having a rest day. I think that’s just old dinosaur training theories. He’s stubborn & wont change. 

Has you old friend been to Kona?

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48 minutes ago, trilobite said:

Has you old friend been to Kona?

Ha. About 20 times. He hasn't been around much lately to tell us about it.

( I miss him :winkiss: )

 

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9 hours ago, Rob said:

I bring her a cooked breakfast in bed before I head off on my Saturday morning ride.  Also organise lots of date nights.

Note that my wife also does Triathlon, just doesn't train anywhere near as much as I do.  And my 3 kids are all in their 20's.

Breakfast in bed is always a winner... My soon to be wife gets breakfast and coffee in bed three mornings a week - I do my bike sessions bloody early during the week, finishing when her alarm to get up goes off. She's semi-nocturnal, so doesn't mind when I am in bed before her or read two pages of my book and then fall asleep. 

 

She's pretty accepting of my need to train and race. As am I when she does. The shared hobby works well. Gardening and stuff - never thought I'd enjoy it, but it's a nice chill out, and builds time credits (we are sad enough that we do discuss this). 

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On 29/01/2020 at 10:11 AM, trilobite said:

In all seriousness, “wanting it enough” is worth 2/10ths of €%]# all if of your spouse does not look favourably on you consistently carving ~15 hours out of your week.

Any suggestions on managing spouse expectations?

Indoor training at home - if something needs to be done, you can get off and do it.

Know some of this pain though - I'm doing my first ironman build and managing the spouse is the hardest part! She is a nightowl, but doesn't look too kindly on me heading to bed at 8:30 for a 4:30 wake up. 

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On 29/01/2020 at 11:11 AM, trilobite said:

In all seriousness, “wanting it enough” is worth 2/10ths of €%]# all if of your spouse does not look favourably on you consistently carving ~15 hours out of your week.

Any suggestions on managing spouse expectations?

Even you can miraculously appear when your family wants you, you're training will have an impact on you. 

At the moment, we sit down of a Sunday and carve out the time for the next week. I've already scheduled all my workouts and then we spend a bunch of time in the calendar rearranging when they are and setting expectations. What is when, who is cooking dinner etc etc

At the end of the day, if my wife isn't on board for the journey, I don't want to go either. If that makes it 5 years between ironman outings, they will be an enjoyable 5 years 👍

 

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Looks like this thread has turned into a time management (do you want it hard enough) thread. I'll chime in anyway.

I haven't done a sub 10 hour IM, closest I got to was 10:15 and that was 8 years ago, about 3 weeks before our wedding (don't ask me how I was allowed to race at all) and before we had kids. I was in my second year being under a coached program and consistently doing 9-10 weekly sessions, averaging about 15 hours a week, peaking at just over 20 hours.

We now have a soon-to-be 4 year old son. Training hours have reduced but it has been consistent - 7 sessions a week (2x each for swim, bike, run plus 1 gym. Long ride and long run on weekends) averaging 10-13 hours a week. I rarely take days off except when I'm traveling or if it's race week. This goes all year round and I've not taken an "off season". I only train in the mornings, typically 5.30am to 6.30am on weekdays and weekend longest rides done by noon, longest run done by 8am. Our son is sleeping later these days, past 9pm and I do get to bed before he does. But my spouse has been my very supportive as long as she gets to have her time to herself so we do play tag with child minding duties.

While I am still improving over the olympic and half iron distances, unfortunately for IM I believe I have just not put in the required hours to get back to where I was, especially the endurance on the bike.

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On 29/01/2020 at 10:11 AM, trilobite said:

 

Any suggestions on managing spouse expectations?

get a new spouse.  I will hook you up on tinder. just give me the word. 

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5 hours ago, k3vski said:

Looks like this thread has turned into a time management (do you want it hard enough) thread. I'll chime in anyway.

I haven't done a sub 10 hour IM, closest I got to was 10:15 and that was 8 years ago, about 3 weeks before our wedding (don't ask me how I was allowed to race at all) and before we had kids. I was in my second year being under a coached program and consistently doing 9-10 weekly sessions, averaging about 15 hours a week, peaking at just over 20 hours.

We now have a soon-to-be 4 year old son. Training hours have reduced but it has been consistent - 7 sessions a week (2x each for swim, bike, run plus 1 gym. Long ride and long run on weekends) averaging 10-13 hours a week. I rarely take days off except when I'm traveling or if it's race week. This goes all year round and I've not taken an "off season". I only train in the mornings, typically 5.30am to 6.30am on weekdays and weekend longest rides done by noon, longest run done by 8am. Our son is sleeping later these days, past 9pm and I do get to bed before he does. But my spouse has been my very supportive as long as she gets to have her time to herself so we do play tag with child minding duties.

While I am still improving over the olympic and half iron distances, unfortunately for IM I believe I have just not put in the required hours to get back to where I was, especially the endurance on the bike.

With kids and young ones too you may find all your training sessions particularly rides suddently have a higher quality to them. In other words - you get it done with out the bullshit thrown in ie: coffee stops etc . 

I found when my kids were young and they had swimming lessons etc, I was fortunate enough to get long rides it, but they essentially became rides against the clock. And if you got a flat.....it was stressful.

PS: Nothing wrong with getting up super early. Even at the moment, I am getting yo before 4:00 and on the bike by 04:15 in order to get early k's in and beat the heat. Last weekend - Got 50k's in before meeting the normal group.:)

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8 hours ago, Clarkevitch said:

Hope all who have posted in this thread have gone sub 10, otherwise, what's the point of giving advice if you haven't achieved it yourself. 

Is that you Alan?

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Now for a bit more serious response.

Firstly, it is a discussion not a coaching session. The OP invited as such without any requirement to have done it.

Secondly, not all of the above is advice, some of us asked questions as opposed to making statements.

Thirdly, I’m sure your rhetoric has some validity at times, however I’ll poss the questions; did Col Stewart ever do a triathlon, could Sutto break 14?

Now most importantly, how about a meaningful contribution, I’m interested in your thoughts on the original question as far as do you think the distances posed equate to a sub 10 for an average punter with some genetics pre disposed to our sport.

Lastly, I’m am surprised that it took so long for someone to throw that old chestnut out, yawning 🥱 

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1 hour ago, Leon said:

Now most importantly, how about a meaningful contribution, I’m interested in your thoughts on the original question as far as do you think the distances posed equate to a sub 10 for an average punter with some genetics pre disposed to our sport.

It is a fairly evenly based spread, however I really think the effort you put into each discipline will depend on your own personal strengths & weaknesses.

For me, that was a bit light on the bike miles, but I came from a running/swimming background. I'd want 300+ on the bike for at least a 6 week block. The make up of those miles is important too. I'd have had 1 mid length ride (100km) and 1 long ride (160 - 200km) in there every week. I was young and single and had mates the same, so I didn't have to time manage so much.

 Because I'd come in as a runner, I let the bike take care of my endurance training, and just did 3 runs a week, one short hard & hilly trail run, and 2 x 15 - 17km hilly trail runs. No long runs. 

Swim was 3 x 3-4km sessions, just over an hour each.

I also did a Triathlon or fun-run every weekend, but never really counted this in my training miles.

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I don't think any amount of training is going to get the "average" Ironman athlete under 10 hours. 

Using 40-44 as an average male age group and choosing Busso as one of the quickest courses around, less than 10% broke  10 hours and less than 25% broke 11 hours. I have seen many people I would consider about "average" chunk out 18 hours a week and achieve 10.30-11.30 times. 

I have a good mate that I would say has good triathlon genes, better than about 90% of people, and he achieved 9.59 in Busso on 9/225/50 (around 14-15hrs a week).

Those numbers give about 18hrs training a week and I have found that will get 95% of potential for myself, 15 hours will give me about 90%, 12 will give me about 85%, and below is a crapshoot! That means if you are around 10 hours, going from 12-18 hours should be worth about an hour.

As personal context, I have done well under 10 hours and well over!

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11 hours ago, Clarkevitch said:

Hope all who have posted in this thread have gone sub 10, otherwise, what's the point of giving advice if you haven't achieved it yourself. 

Going on that theory, so many have never done an ironman at all on here.  so .. .. ..

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16 hours ago, Clarkevitch said:

Hope all who have posted in this thread have gone sub 10, otherwise, what's the point of giving advice if you haven't achieved it yourself. 

I'm not sure that you have to have achieved a certain level to give advice on how it may be achieved.  Footy coaches that have never won a premiership may be able to give advice on what needs to be done to win one.  I'm sure there are triathlon coaches out there that have not achieved certain times etc but their athletes have.

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1 hour ago, CootaGC said:

I'm not sure that you have to have achieved a certain level to give advice on how it may be achieved.  Footy coaches that have never won a premiership may be able to give advice on what needs to be done to win one.  I'm sure there are triathlon coaches out there that have not achieved certain times etc but their athletes have.

Would kind of limit Jan Frondeno's choice of coach if that was the requirement

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I am one of the great ones disciples but haven't trained with them for about 7 years....I keep wanting to make a comeback but Noosa is all I can contemplate atm.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

I think you need a alot of talent, mental toughness and a great work ethic to be able to achieve it. 

I also believe in quality over quantity, but some people like the quantity to give them the confidence.

Btw, I have not and never will go sub 10, cause I don't want it bad enough and I have a life outside of tri and ain't no tri wanker.

Oh and my PB is 10.52 which this hack will be happy to take to the grave.

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2 hours ago, Clarkevitch said:

Oh and my PB is 10.52 which this hack will be happy to take to the grave.

Appreciate your thoughts and opinion.

And that ain’t a hack time!

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  • 1 month later...

Just out of interest... Something I've been wondering about.... What does "sub 10" get you? Besides some personal satisfaction? 

 

I looked at the IMOZ(only could find 2018) results in my AG M40-44 and 10hrs flat does not even get you top 10!?! That's full on. 

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1 minute ago, Jim Shortz said:

Just out of interest... Something I've been wondering about.... What does "sub 10" get you? Besides some personal satisfaction? 

 

I looked at the IMOZ(only could find 2018) results in my AG M40-44 and 10hrs flat does not even get you top 10!?! That's full on. 

I'd win my AG now. :)

I just had a look at my old result, and was quite surprised. In 1990, it got you 53rd. Last year it got you 63rd. I would have expected to see a lot more people going faster now. 

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40 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I'd win my AG now. :)

I just had a look at my old result, and was quite surprised. In 1990, it got you 53rd. Last year it got you 63rd. I would have expected to see a lot more people going faster now. 

I was genuinely surprised to see how many guys were sub 10. It's amazing really. They would all have jobs etc. Friggin serious effort IMO 

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1 hour ago, Jim Shortz said:

Just out of interest... Something I've been wondering about.... What does "sub 10" get you? Besides some personal satisfaction? 

 

I looked at the IMOZ(only could find 2018) results in my AG M40-44 and 10hrs flat does not even get you top 10!?! That's full on. 

IMOZ 2019 for my AG M50-54 - 10 hours gets you a Kona spot.  top 3 at 9:47 to 9:55.  4th place a 10:02.    
4 spots open for Kona.
Given my time of 12:13, sub-10 is unlikely to say the least.

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3 hours ago, Jim Shortz said:

Just out of interest... Something I've been wondering about.... What does "sub 10" get you? Besides some personal satisfaction? 

 

I looked at the IMOZ(only could find 2018) results in my AG M40-44 and 10hrs flat does not even get you top 10!?! That's full on. 

What does any of this give anyone apart from personal satisfaction! Even Kona as a prize (which requires closer to 9:30 in my age group) is just another chance to hurt yourself and be guaranteed to not go sub 10 in an Ironman 😂

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2 hours ago, Jim Shortz said:

I was genuinely surprised to see how many guys were sub 10. It's amazing really. They would all have jobs etc. Friggin serious effort IMO 

You are kidding yourself if you think there isn’t a healthy dose of innate talent in those individuals. 

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On 29/01/2020 at 12:52 PM, Peter said:

 

I was out running at 4:30am today.  Doing my long run.  Was extremely nice. 

Only issue I seem to run slower in the dark / street lights and when the sun comes up I got 45sec a km faster.  

I wonder if it matters?  mind you all in zone 2 where I'm told I should be.

I once ran from South Melbourne to Kew, via the CBD at about 4am after a night out (no drinking).

It is probably my favourite run I have ever done.

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I have spent the last month building up to 50km per week running.  Last 3 weeks have been 40, 46 and 52.  Highest volume run weeks I have ever done, even compared to my one I build. 

 

I am still well overweight and it has only been one month of running, but I can't believe how much my running improved just in that 4 weeks!

 

Plan for this month is to keep that volume up and absorb it while increasing the swim to 10km a week.  Hopefully the volume has the same effect on the swim!

 

 

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On 27/01/2020 at 7:07 AM, Mike Honcho said:

10/275/60

 

Discuss

Bit late to the conversation but I went:

11.58 (Port), 11.46 (Port), 10.37 (Melbourne), 11.25 (Port) aged 24, 28, 28 and 29

got a bit more serious and went

9.44 (Busso, 1.14/5.15/3.08) off around 15 hours/week for the 6 months prior. Although I think I missed two days of training in 10 months prior to the even

9.36 (Melb, 1.10/5.02/3.17) with similar volume for another 4 months

10.15 (Maastricht, 1.10/5.46/3.10, tough and long bike!) off perhaps a bit less than 15 hours. 

Swim was almost always <10, bike only very occasionally >275, and run quite often over 60 (but not always).
Consistency was key, had my best results with a good lead in.

Managed a few good 70.3 races after that but no good IMs since.
 

On 27/01/2020 at 9:27 AM, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Simple. Just do it before you get a wife & kids. ;)

yes! 

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On 29/01/2020 at 10:13 AM, more said:

Stupid o clock FTW!!

I regularly was getting out of bed at 2:15am before work to get a morning session in 🤷‍♂️

 

But I'm not even a sub 13 hero so..... LOL 

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38 minutes ago, Aidan said:

Bit late to the conversation but I went:

11.58 (Port), 11.46 (Port), 10.37 (Melbourne), 11.25 (Port) aged 24, 28, 28 and 29

got a bit more serious and went

9.44 (Busso, 1.14/5.15/3.08) off around 15 hours/week for the 6 months prior. Although I think I missed two days of training in 10 months prior to the even

9.36 (Melb, 1.10/5.02/3.17) with similar volume for another 4 months

10.15 (Maastricht, 1.10/5.46/3.10, tough and long bike!) off perhaps a bit less than 15 hours. 

Swim was almost always <10, bike only very occasionally >275, and run quite often over 60 (but not always).
Consistency was key, had my best results with a good lead in.

Managed a few good 70.3 races after that but no good IMs since.
 

yes! 

Consistency. 

That pops up so much. "If" there's a silver bullet....that'd be close to it IMO 

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1 hour ago, Nick777 said:

I once ran from South Melbourne to Kew, via the CBD at about 4am after a night out (no drinking).

It is probably my favourite run I have ever done.

When I ran early morning(3am) the newspaper guy got to know which days I was out on the road and he'd wave and work around me as he weaved from one side of the road to the other in his van. It was pretty cool. Also the maggies waking up at 4am and starting to warble gently....those memories still give me goosebumps. 👌 Good times. Definitely. 

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1 hour ago, Nick777 said:

I once ran from South Melbourne to Kew, via the CBD at about 4am after a night out (no drinking).

It is probably my favourite run I have ever done.

I once ran from Endeavour Hills to Dandenong via Doveton at 2am, it was probably my fastest run ever

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On 27/01/2020 at 4:07 AM, Mike Honcho said:

10/275/60

 

Discuss

4 seasons of tri. 10:15 first attempt (age 41 only a few socials tris done in MID 20s-30s)  Sub 10 second season. Best: sub 9:30 3rd season.

Not sure if I ever ran 60km a week. 40km would be big week. Not much training aligned with the "hot topics" discussed here.

Find what works for you then

1) Consistency over time.

 

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