Jump to content

Ironman Melbourne 70.3 2020


Recommended Posts

It will be different for each athlete.

Very few sections of Beach Rd I haven't raced as part of a Triathlon.  Cannot think of any rise steep enough where I needed to switch out of the big chain ring (when racing).

Whereas the Esplanade between Dromana and Mornington has small inclines where I always use the small ring.  That is a road I would refer to as rolling undulations (one of my favourite roads).

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Crowies crushed nuts said:

 

The rise coming out of Ricketts Point cafe,  just past Brighton baths,  and also approaching Sandringham footy oval 

Only if I am sprinting or the 360 degree Ricketts Point headwind is extra strong

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Naut said:

Only if I am sprinting or the 360 degree Ricketts Point headwind is extra strong

I guarantee if you sit at rickets during the race over 70% will get out of the saddle.  And going outbound at Brighton too.  
 

brighton you don’t need too but its still Not flat like people claim. 
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, a couple of "hills" of 20-30m, 200-300m, 2-3%. Not enough to break up groups, or they just reform the other side.

Anyhow, hope it sells out.

But even more that some genuine efforts get put in to quell the drafting. Not having a go at the volunteers, and maybe I should still my hand up to TA. But the real answer surely lies in tech and real-time monitoring of some kind. We can all become dot-watchers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are holding out hope for triathlon to not have drafting, you need a new sport.  
 

its just never going to happen in the Instagram look at me world. 
 

people are all about themselves now.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Naut said:

Out of the saddle???? Other than Oliver's hill I can't think of any section I need to get out of the saddle unless my arse is sore

Yep, agree with Naut. Even an average cyclist like me doesn't get out of the saddle on beach road (except when we stop at a coffee shop).

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Greyman said:

Yep, agree with Naut. Even an average cyclist like me doesn't get out of the saddle on beach road (except when we stop at a coffee shop).

Are you going to do it?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7 February 2020 at 6:06 PM, Peter said:

Are you going to do it?  

Well I've done a few of the challenge versions of the race so what the hell, why not do the M dot version. You?

Edited by Greyman
.
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/02/2020 at 4:00 PM, Peter said:

If you are holding out hope for triathlon to not have drafting, you need a new sport. 

In fact that was the conclusion I came to a few years back. Even though I was "new" to triathlon, having only done it for 10 years :) Made easier by the fact triathlon is a hybrid of three sports.

But back to my point about cleaning up drafting using tech. And to argue against your point.

There's more than  a few sports where tech has transformed.Tennis: slow motion line call replays have solved the tantrums.  Sound meters could easily solve the scream queen problem too. Cricket, third umpire mostly solved the controversial catch and LBW problem. AFL: goal replays. Sure still the odd controversy. But tech has sorted the bulk of them out.

Drafting in triathlon could be sorted by tech, pretty easily it seems to me. And just to be sure, I'm not intending to criticise TAs, volunteers who care, do their best. And I think I should vol if I don't sign up, but I'd want an electric bike looking like a competitor so they can't hear nor spot me!  And a lesson on crowd management when telling 100 riders they've all been penalised :)

Just a little background I suppose. I did 3 of the Challenge Melbourne races. One wasn't a draft fest, when it poured rain. Beach Rd is just too flat, despite a couple of ~30m rises, to break packs.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was a TO for 3 years.  
 

I busted 16 people in one hit at shep one year.  We had heaps of draft busters on motorbikes.  You’ll catch people but you can’t catch them all. Hence why I said you just have to accept it when a train of 8 guys roll past and watch them ride off. 
 

I strongly suggest you become a TO and volunteer for Melbourne and then report back. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, longshot said:

 

There's more than  a few sports where tech has transformed.Tennis: slow motion line call replays have solved the tantrums.  Sound meters could easily solve the scream queen problem too. Cricket, third umpire mostly solved the controversial catch and LBW problem. AFL: goal replays. Sure still the odd controversy. But tech has sorted the bulk of them out.

To be fair though this tech is at the very highest level; grand slams, tests, top level AFL. Draft busting in the pro triathlon ranks using tech is plausible, I  don't think the same is true for age groupers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, toolex said:

To be fair though this tech is at the very highest level; grand slams, tests, top level AFL. Draft busting in the pro triathlon ranks using tech is plausible, I  don't think the same is true for age groupers.

Maybe something like stinger spikes thrown out behind the first rider in packs. Your time penalty is the amount of time it takes you to repair a flat. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Maybe something like stinger spikes thrown out behind the first rider in packs. Your time penalty is the amount of time it takes you to repair a flat. :)

Triathletes will be practicing 'bunny hops' as part of there brick sessions .............hmmm

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, longshot said:

There's more than  a few sports where tech has transformed.Tennis: slow motion line call replays have solved the tantrums.  Sound meters could easily solve the scream queen problem too. Cricket, third umpire mostly solved the controversial catch and LBW problem. AFL: goal replays. Sure still the odd controversy. But tech has sorted the bulk of them out.

Drafting in triathlon could be sorted by tech, pretty easily it seems to me. And just to be sure, I'm not intending to criticise TAs, volunteers who care, do their best. And I think I should vol if I don't sign up, but I'd want an electric bike looking like a competitor so they can't hear nor spot me!  And a lesson on crowd management when telling 100 riders they've all been penalised :)

Like Toolex already mentioned, the tech is only at the extreme pointy end. Grade cricket doesn't have any tech (and the umpiring is usually appalling), District cricket does not have tech. And I would suggest a lot of Shield Cricket doesn't have any tech either.  Same with non AFL level Aussie Rules football and the vast majority of Tennis. I would think most of the Tennis matches played by the top level pro's outside of the 4 majors probably wouldn't have much or any tech.  So to compare that to Triathlon, we would only have tech for the Pros at Kona and the Olympics, and only if the TV coverage deal was worth many millions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/02/2020 at 12:05 PM, Peter said:

I guarantee if you sit at rickets during the race over 70% will get out of the saddle.

So around 30% of competitors would think the course is flat.  That feels about right to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Triathletes will be practicing 'bunny hops' as part of there brick sessions .............hmmm

There's people on this forum that have fallen off their bikes while on the trainer. Could you imagine bunny hopping in a pack. 

  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

There's people on this forum that have fallen off their bikes while on the trainer. Could you imagine bunny hopping in a pack. 

Yes, done it. but only while road and crit racing, and not on a TT bike. (haven't learnt how to hop while on the bars, either)

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

We had a guy fall off att he start line of our race yesterday (come & try rider). Everyone laughed at him. He then torched us on the first climb, split the bunch & held on for second........

Congratulations on coming second

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 09/02/2020 at 9:17 AM, toolex said:

To be fair though this tech is at the very highest level; grand slams, tests, top level AFL. Draft busting in the pro triathlon ranks using tech is plausible, I  don't think the same is true for age groupers.

I was thinking that a small box containing a camera, GPS and ultrasonic or laser distance measuring device.

Attached to the rear of the bike, it starts recording when it detects someone too close to back wheel and also logs the speed, time and distance. Each athlete has their number on the front of their helmet so is clearly identified in the video.

"incident" files from the camera systems are automatically reviewed post ride and manually validated for a "prosecution" (e.g. a time penalty or a DQ). You would take into account the position and speed (not valid in mount/dismount areas or on low speed areas/corners) and the amount of time actually spent on the wheel. 

I would think about 10 active devices and a heap of more dummy devices (cheap boxes that are indistinguishable from the real thing)  randomly throughout the field.  

If we can cut the road toll with speed and red light cameras, maybe we can achieve a draft free triathlon.... :)

You could make a prototype for this for about $200 - $400 but if you went into production I reckon  you could get it down to less than $50 for an active and about 5 to $10 for a dummy.

Possible enhancement is a 3G module so 'incidents' can be sent back in real time for application of penalties during the ride or immediately post ride.   Pretty standard IOT technologies

Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha. And people think $1000 is a lot for entries.  
with that solution, entry would be $2500 per person.  
 

Age groupers are racing for nothing.  No money.  Well a $7 medal.  That we all get.  
 

hilarious people are worried about other people’s races. 
 

if you don’t like drafting do off road triathlons. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, PeterW said:

If we can cut the road toll with speed and red light cameras, maybe we can achieve a draft free triathlon.... :)

Apoligies in advance for going off topic, but I do not believe that Speed cameras have improved the road toll. Any reduction in deaths is due to Air Bags and generally much safer cars.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Rob said:

Apoligies in advance for going off topic, but I do not believe that Speed cameras have improved the road toll. Any reduction in deaths is due to Air Bags and generally much safer cars.

Speed cameras don't change the road toll, they reduce average traffic speed, and that reduces the road toll.  Speed is officially the major cause of road accidents. Higher speed, more deaths - Checkout the result of raising the speed limit on a section of FWY Camloops (BC Canada) back in 2014 - the liberal govt.  thought "speed kills" was a lefty (or revenue raiser) myth - after that the fatality rate more than doubled (118% increase)  They backpedaled and lowered the speed limit...

If you wanted a zero (or close to it) road toll the speed limit everywhere would be 40km/hr with speeding offences punishable by hanging. Bingo!! 1,146 lives saved in one year (in Australia) and around 30,000 serious injuries and a saving to the community of billions of dollars. But I digress....

I must admit I don't really care about drafting all that much, I tend to ride alone because I am such a sh1t swimmer everyone else has long gone....  :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Those saying tech only for elite. Some examples like slo motion replays perhaps at this point. But  $25 Sri Chinmoy run there is an electronic chip on the back of the race number, disposable, or you can get one for a season. Likewise in Vic cycling races have electronic timing chips part of deal all the way down to club races. Likewise triathlons, you get a timing chip. That's apart from the $300+ and upwards cycling computers near on everyone has. Along with $500 and up mobile phones. And quite a few Cycliq light-camera combos. Golfers with GPS laser range finders. Yep, plenty of tech everywhere at all levels, and increasing rapidly.

For a $500 or $1000 entry fee they should be able to implement a tech solution to drafting. Entrants already get a timing chip for the day. But I believe at the heart of it they don't want to, not because of cost of the tech or developing solutions, but because it would require reduction in entry numbers, and potential blow back from disgruntleds. And the punters mostly prepared to accept it, even though it is the most complained about aspect of the sport, or perhaps the cost is.

Institutionalised cheating. Sure just look after yourself. 

Two Melbourne based companies doing GPS sports tech, might be of interest (I dont have anything to do with them)

https://sportsperformancetracking.com/

https://www.catapultsports.com/

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Timing chips are simply tech to allow them to shove more people onto a course (and stopping cheating was a side benefit). Tech that highlights drafting (but has a side-effect of showing them that there are too many people on a course) is not going to be one of there priorities, but in reality could be done cheaply if a little thought and effort was put into it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue is that TA or in this example TriVIC have to train and supply the Technical Officials.  
 

so they can’t say to the race directors you need 1 TO per 100 athletes.  
 

the Race director’s probably say, send us as many TOs as you can. Go your hardest.
 

the whole drafting issue falls in the hands of Triathlon Australia not individual race directors. 
 

So either become a TO and help or stop complaining.  You’d only have to be a TO at 3 races a year and I think you even get free membership.  Unconfirmed.  
 

hairbrain high cost solutions aren’t going to happen.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately electronic or gps measuring of drafting would not work. I deplore drafting and will let riders know if they are cheating. However, I have not timed myself passing a rider while overtaking or measured the distance going up a hill out of the saddle to the rider in front. I would suspect I have drafted if I went by the letter of the law. I try but I don’t think I would pass the black/white test in every race. The ones that really piss my off are the blatant trains and tuck ins that spend time in the zone. 
Drafting is a mind set. 
And yes, we could all become TOs and help the cause. 
 

FM

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Flanman said:

Unfortunately electronic or gps measuring of drafting would not work. I deplore drafting and will let riders know if they are cheating. However, I have not timed myself passing a rider while overtaking or measured the distance going up a hill out of the saddle to the rider in front. I would suspect I have drafted if I went by the letter of the law. I try but I don’t think I would pass the black/white test in every race. The ones that really piss my off are the blatant trains and tuck ins that spend time in the zone. 
Drafting is a mind set. 
And yes, we could all become TOs and help the cause. 
 

FM

But the device doesn't have to be black & white. Like speed cameras, there will be a margin of error, so you set the device to only trigger blatant drafting. It needs to be at the front of the bike, and if you spend more than x% of the time withing y distance of another competitor, or car etc, then you are nailed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather see a 3 strikes policy and you are out system.

As in you get bused at Geelong.  Then get busted at Cairns 2 times.  Then you just get banned for 12 months.

Would never happen as TA don't have the balls but it shows the serial drafters.

And we all know who the serial drafters are at the same races, year in year out.

FFS I busted one girl in Shep 3 times one year.  She didn't even care.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Peter said:

I'd rather see a 3 strikes policy and you are out system.

As in you get bused at Geelong.  Then get busted at Cairns 2 times.  Then you just get banned for 12 months.

Would never happen as TA don't have the balls but it shows the serial drafters.

And we all know who the serial drafters are at the same races, year in year out.

FFS I busted one girl in Shep 3 times one year.  She didn't even care.

you have implied it already yourself, TA wont do it, and neither will the organizers because they dont want to lose revenue. maybe an option is to charge drafters a penalty entry fee:

First strike- nothing

Second strike- 15% extra next entry

Third strike- 25% extra next entry

Fourth strike- 50% extra

 

If you go 12 months without another strike then it resets.. unfortunately this would probably lead to organizers trying to increase revenue and the penalty tents would be full race after race... just shows there is no easy solution

Link to post
Share on other sites

The only trouble is the Race Directors wont do it either.

So in summary and my point, people complaining about OTHERS drafting are wasting their time coming up with crazy solutions.

Just do your race and get your time. When someone beats you by 15 minutes because they may or may not have drafted, just move on. 

Only a small percentage are actually racing for the plastic trophy's.  The rest are all racing for the same medal. Be 5th or 555th.

In the scheme of thinks in the world, someone else drafting does not matter.

BTW Heard that there are only about 130 spots left for Melbourne 70.3

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

BTW Heard that there are only about 130 spots left for Melbourne 70.3

I should be right for a good crack at a half by the end of this season and I would love to do a half on beach road...

... but I just can't get my mind around a November race :(  I'll be too green and the weather will be too cold!

Much prefer later in the season after a Summer of training so will probably go with a Shep half in April.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

so lets get real and put a number to it.  Do they have north of 1000, north of 1500?  A hundred here or there is immaterial.  Just really curious.

Had to laugh when I say the response......I just saw the last couple of words.......a few hundred

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Noticed they have increased the drafting distance for this race or is my understanding is wrong. Rule as per the Ironman Melbourne website:

The draft distance is 12 metres (7 bike lengths) between bikes measured from the back edge of the rear wheel of the leading bicycle to the leading edge of the front wheel of the following bicycle.

I thought the rule was 12m from the front of the leading bike to the front of the trailing bike as per the triathlon Australia website

 

Edited by Limited
Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Limited said:

Noticed they have increased the drafting distance for this race or is my understanding is wrong. Rule as per the Ironman Melbourne website:

The draft distance is 12 metres (7 bike lengths) between bikes measured from the back edge of the rear wheel of the leading bicycle to the leading edge of the front wheel of the following bicycle.

I thought the rule was 12m from the front of the leading bike to the front of the trailing bike as per the triathlon Australia website

 

I don't know about  all that, but isn't that guy in the WSTC kit on the cervelo a slick look'n dude...:)

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...