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So all the training is done and it's taper time.  2 weeks to race day - what have I done! 

other than a pilates inflicted injury which was quickly resolved by virtue of the fact I have an inhouse osteo 😀 I've had a great prep.  Longest run timewise was 3 hours - but that was because I took a wrong turn and spent half an our or so crawling through lantana and over rocks trying to refind a trail, or any trail!.  Nothing more frustrating than the phone map saying the trail  is just 50 meters "over there" but there's a vertical cliff face and/or prickly vines in between 😆 Eventually escaped! 

My final long run was 21.5 km for 2 and half hours and 450 vertical.  Not as much vertical as the race so expect to complete it in closer to 3 hours.  Over the last few months I've run every bit of the race course so have an excellent idea of what to expect.  Problem is I also know how absolutely horrible some sections are going to be.  After crawling up one particular trail (named Kokoda) I went and got myself a set of trekking poles - chosen as a result of recommendations on this thread - how awesome are poles!  repeated Kokoda and the reduced strain on calves and quads was awesome - I was still practically dead at the top, but my legs felt heaps better 😆

Race report hopefully to follow in 2 weeks.  Just have to get through taper.... and the run - not sure which is worse.

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Currently sitting in my hotel room in the Pyrenees before volunteer duties start while Mrs L races along the Spanish and Andorran Pyrenees for 7 days in the Pyrenees Stage Race. Love the mountains of

Just saw Tyno's post from a while back.  Trying to waste a bit of time while I wait  to get out the front door for Easter.. My wife Liz got an invite and is enterred. Currently doing a 100k

Did a self supported 50 miler on the Great North Walk last week, chose a pretty technical section that mirrors one of the GNW Ultra courses.. cranked out in 14 hours and home for dinner with the kids.

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Great stuff Cat Lady, I'm sure you'll do well, you sound very prepared.

I have deferred my Arc of Attrition 50 miler to 2022,  basically because with more restrictions coming they can't provide (or at least guarantee) that they will have access to to village halls for aid stations.

This means supplying your own crew and heating any water/food from the back of the crew car.  First problem for me is I wouldn't have a crew and if I did, asking them to do that in Cornwall in winter would too much expectation.

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5 hours ago, Cat Lady said:

So all the training is done and it's taper time.  2 weeks to race day - what have I done! 

other than a pilates inflicted injury which was quickly resolved by virtue of the fact I have an inhouse osteo 😀 I've had a great prep.  Longest run timewise was 3 hours - but that was because I took a wrong turn and spent half an our or so crawling through lantana and over rocks trying to refind a trail, or any trail!.  Nothing more frustrating than the phone map saying the trail  is just 50 meters "over there" but there's a vertical cliff face and/or prickly vines in between 😆 Eventually escaped! 

My final long run was 21.5 km for 2 and half hours and 450 vertical.  Not as much vertical as the race so expect to complete it in closer to 3 hours.  Over the last few months I've run every bit of the race course so have an excellent idea of what to expect.  Problem is I also know how absolutely horrible some sections are going to be.  After crawling up one particular trail (named Kokoda) I went and got myself a set of trekking poles - chosen as a result of recommendations on this thread - how awesome are poles!  repeated Kokoda and the reduced strain on calves and quads was awesome - I was still practically dead at the top, but my legs felt heaps better 😆

Race report hopefully to follow in 2 weeks.  Just have to get through taper.... and the run - not sure which is worse.

Have a brilliant race day! Looking forward to your race report 😊

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6 hours ago, Cat Lady said:

.. After crawling up one particular trail (named Kokoda) I went and got myself a set of trekking poles - chosen as a result of recommendations on this thread - how awesome are poles! ...

My wife is good at using poles.

Me, I don't have the coordination.

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19 hours ago, Rob said:

My wife is good at using poles.

Me, I don't have the coordination.

I am the original klutz yet found it pretty easy to adapt. I've put maybe 5-6 hours in using them and I've only semi - tripped myself once when a bush turkey raced in front of me putting me off kilter and stride.  

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23 minutes ago, FatPom said:

Holy shit, help me Jeebus!!

Good news, a place has become available in the Dragon’s Back Race 2021 and as you are top of the waiting list we have sent you an invitation to join the event.

 

 

 

Thats very exciting FP, a very specific training regime with a focus on core strength, proprioception, running poles etc?  

 

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34 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Thats very exciting FP, a very specific training regime with a focus on core strength, proprioception, running poles etc?  

 

Haven't thought that far ahead. Also just realised that next year's edition is 6 days, 383km and 17,400 mtrs of vert.  How do I train for that? 😧

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5 hours ago, FatPom said:

Haven't thought that far ahead. Also just realised that next year's edition is 6 days, 383km and 17,400 mtrs of vert.  How do I train for that? 😧

That looks proper hard 😄  Just looking at the video there are some scary segments in there that you wouldn't want to be doing unless you're on your game.  It's not just the multiple days backing up you've got to train for (and look after your feet), it's the technical side - some of those rock scrambling sections remind me of Celtman and there are massive time gains for those that are practiced at it, and similar time losses for those that weren't (that was me!).  There is literally nothing around here for example that comes close so hopefully you have some challenging terrain close to home. Good luck!

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7 hours ago, FatPom said:

Haven't thought that far ahead. Also just realised that next year's edition is 6 days, 383km and 17,400 mtrs of vert.  How do I train for that? 😧

I am not sure this is the right thread FP. I saw little in that video that resembled an actual trail :D

And.... good luck! Fully mad, heaps of suffering - should be great :D 

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Thanks Truck and Dazaau.  It will be hard for sure. There isn't anything local to me but my sister lives in Wales (closer to the end of the course), so a couple of recce weekends will be a must.

North Wales is about 4.5hrs drive from where I live and Cardiff is about 2.5, so not too bad. Also, the Lake District is 4-5hrs away, which has similar terrain and more family friendly for days away.

The main issues I was thing of overnight were.

Will my back handle it?  (not only the course but the camping).

Will 2022 be in Sept like next year or move back to June. (Sept means getting up in the dark, first hour in dark and definitely finishing in dark)

If 2022 is back to June, I may defer, which is an option for me. (I know it will be heaps hotter).

That added 6th day could well be the tipping point. Do I want to enter and see how far I get?

Do I REALLY REALLY want to do it?  I have until Friday to decide.

There is another film here which shows the race a bit better overall.

 

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In the cold light of day and away from the initial euphoria, I think I’m going to take the 2022 option, reasons being:

This is not ultra running, it’s mountain running and I have none of that experience.

The fitness of those not making cut off is already higher than mine.
I either glossed of over, or failed to realise the impact of the 6th added day.

It gives me more time to recce, post travel restrictions and gives me more time to build experience.

Sept will still be hard but by then I will have Wendover Woods and Arc under my belt for winter running.

Hopefully sharing a tent will be a lot safer in 2022 than it is is 2021.

It gives me a year to work out if I really want it enough.

It’s not something I can ‘wing’ and I’m not going there to fail.

Thoughts? (apart from being a piker ! )

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2022 is a great option FP, as you say youll have 2 other events that you trained for & finished in your body so your strength  & fitness will be there. Plus IMO youll have seen your weaknesses in training  know what needs work.  Maybe get in touch with a mountain running group & learn all you can from them. You could do some of their runs/training weekends as well?

Maybe have plan A & plan B & be happy to go with plan B when youre out there & know you wont make a cut off or you back calls time?  

Im looking forward to reading all about it ☺

 

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3 hours ago, FatPom said:

In the cold light of day and away from the initial euphoria, I think I’m going to take the 2022 option, reasons being:

This is not ultra running, it’s mountain running and I have none of that experience.

The fitness of those not making cut off is already higher than mine.
I either glossed of over, or failed to realise the impact of the 6th added day.

It gives me more time to recce, post travel restrictions and gives me more time to build experience.

Sept will still be hard but by then I will have Wendover Woods and Arc under my belt for winter running.

Hopefully sharing a tent will be a lot safer in 2022 than it is is 2021.

It gives me a year to work out if I really want it enough.

It’s not something I can ‘wing’ and I’m not going there to fail.

Thoughts? (apart from being a piker ! )

2022 sounds good/wise. This doesn't look like the kind of event you want to rush preparation for, and there is probably a reason it is usually held in June not September. I think if you really want to do it, it will motivate you to train for the next 18 months and you'll show up and finish well.

I don't think I could do multi day running events. Brutal on the body. most races I struggle to walk properly the next few days ha ha.

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16 minutes ago, Bosco said:

FP, 2022 is so far away- do it now. You know you want to - I could hear the excitement in your strokes.....what an epic adventure it would be! 

I am really excited but I need to be realistic. Strangely, I just watched this film with John Kelly, about 18mins in he describes that 'zone' where you need to make sure that you are entering something you 'might' finish, rather than something you know you can, or can't.

 

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19 minutes ago, Bosco said:

FP, 2022 is so far away- do it now. You know you want to - I could hear the excitement in your strokes.....what an epic adventure it would be! 

Normally I'm a bit 'f**k it yeah, let's roll the dice' but this is just too big and too expensive to not respect fully.

Forgot to mention, the 2022 edition will be in Sept also. Bugger 😁

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2 hours ago, FatPom said:

Normally I'm a bit 'f**k it yeah, let's roll the dice' but this is just too big and too expensive to not respect fully.

Forgot to mention, the 2022 edition will be in Sept also. Bugger 😁

Me too - has always worked out up to now 😄 but this one is a bit hard to 'wing it'!  Everyone's different but I'd be looking to build to 8hr walk/hike/run days on both a Sat and Sun, lots and lots of hills with some technical stuff and getting used to multiple back to back run days on tired legs over at least 4-6months to be mentally prepared.  If I couldn't get to that point for 2021 I'd be deferring.  My longest trail run has been 53k's with 2200m of climbing/descending and I thought I was reasonably fit going into that but no way could I have backed up the next day.  And forget any thoughts on material bike riding during that time if you want to recover properly.

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5 hours ago, FatPom said:

Normally I'm a bit 'f**k it yeah, let's roll the dice' but this is just too big and too expensive to not respect fully.

Forgot to mention, the 2022 edition will be in Sept also. Bugger 😁

Hmmm. So I'm coming around. Do you need more than 10 months to train, and will extending it to close to two years away help or hinder your motivation. 

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16 hours ago, truck said:

Me too - has always worked out up to now 😄 but this one is a bit hard to 'wing it'!  Everyone's different but I'd be looking to build to 8hr walk/hike/run days on both a Sat and Sun, lots and lots of hills with some technical stuff and getting used to multiple back to back run days on tired legs over at least 4-6months to be mentally prepared.  If I couldn't get to that point for 2021 I'd be deferring.  My longest trail run has been 53k's with 2200m of climbing/descending and I thought I was reasonably fit going into that but no way could I have backed up the next day.  And forget any thoughts on material bike riding during that time if you want to recover properly.

Definitely too hard to 'wing'.  What you're describing is really std ultra stuff ( except family wise, I tended to do a long Sat and half that on Sun). Back to back runs on tired legs is the norm. Sometimes I use the bike to put some extra tiredness in my legs whilst taking pressure off my back.

I think my longest training day (if we don't count races as training) was 47km and 2,600mtrs which took about 9hrs and the next day to the ParkRun did that and ran back for 13km.  Mostly though I tended to be 6hrs Sat, 3hrs Sun and some riding.

The difference that's not being considered is getting to the terrain. We can't travel that far, I have no idea when we can and I can't be away all the time on my own, or drag the family to Wales for endless weekend looking for something to do whilst I'm recce the mountains.

Next  year I'm committed to Newport marathon,  SDW100,  Fan Dance, Wendover Woods 50 and a few others.  We are also committed to 3 surfing holidays (assuming we are allowed).

Don't forget, this isn't Oz and this isn't regular trails. There is a relatively short window where these mountains can be accessed safely, either due to weather, light or both. To compress that into one already compromised season is too much really.

This is the difference between trail running and mountain running. I'm already a trail runner, I know how to train for 1000mtr  plus vert days, I do that on a very regular basis.  What I don't know is how to tackle rocky mountains quickly on back to back days.

This has to be a slow burn, otherwise it will fizzle out quickly. It may not happen at all if I can't deal with the above but a race that costs over £2k, I don't intend to go in anything other than armed with my best shot.

My other consideration is whether it will be safe to share a tent with 7others by Sept 2021, right now, I'd say not but who knows?

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Somehow as I've aged, I've become more reluctant to do those big events that you know are just going to hurt, without a decent preparation. 

I still like them, just not prepared to take the risks when younger.

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On 24/11/2020 at 2:53 AM, FatPom said:

Holy shit, help me Jeebus!!

Good news, a place has become available in the Dragon’s Back Race 2021 and as you are top of the waiting list we have sent you an invitation to join the event.

 

I watched the YouTube of the Dragon's Back Race last night. Amazing scenery. Crazy hard race. Good luck with the training.

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On 29/11/2020 at 1:08 AM, Ironnerd said:

I watched the YouTube of the Dragon's Back Race last night. Amazing scenery. Crazy hard race. Good luck with the training.

Thanks.  I'm having a change of heart and just thinking to get it done in 2021.  I'm getting sick of waiting for races. 

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I've had two major projects dumped on me on top of my other projects that all have to be delivered at Cabinet Office level by mid-year.  I'm will be also managing 23 people by end of March.

I'm thinking, despite my appetite for 'winging stuff', that my work commitments and the training for DBR will be piling way too much stress on me, my job and my family.  I can't see it happening with any degree of confidence TBH.

Thinks that SDW100 miler will have to be my big event for 2021 as the delta between what I'm training now and 100 miler is not so huge as it would be for DBR.

I'm having some honest conversations with myself and not liking the answers. 😆

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Belated race report - I was always late handing in assignments 😆

 

Guzzler 21km done and dusted.  In brief. glad I did all those mid day runs to get used to the heat - not!  It was cold and wet.  🤷‍♀️.  Had a grand old time. I had run bits and pieces of the course multiple times, except for the beginning which was the most, um, interesting.   Watching people slid on their backside down the steep bits - one way to get to the bottom quickly - others just bounding down - old hands.  I kind of inched down.   However, once I traversed the many sliding on your backside bits it was just a steady run across familiar territory.  Rain cleared up and it was a beautiful day, not too hot, not too cold.  Kokoda was what I expected and it was worth having my running poles for that section alone.  Run down to the finish line was excellent.  Trail runners are such nice people.  Went home and started planning my next race but I fell asleep.  Woke up 2 hours later and could hardly walk.  The less said about my muscles the next day the better.  Swore I was never going to do another trail run again.....

Just signed up for the BTU30 .....  6 months to train. 😎

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8 hours ago, Cat Lady said:

Belated race report - I was always late handing in assignments 😆

 

Guzzler 21km done and dusted.  In brief. glad I did all those mid day runs to get used to the heat - not!  It was cold and wet.  🤷‍♀️.  Had a grand old time. I had run bits and pieces of the course multiple times, except for the beginning which was the most, um, interesting.   Watching people slid on their backside down the steep bits - one way to get to the bottom quickly - others just bounding down - old hands.  I kind of inched down.   However, once I traversed the many sliding on your backside bits it was just a steady run across familiar territory.  Rain cleared up and it was a beautiful day, not too hot, not too cold.  Kokoda was what I expected and it was worth having my running poles for that section alone.  Run down to the finish line was excellent.  Trail runners are such nice people.  Went home and started planning my next race but I fell asleep.  Woke up 2 hours later and could hardly walk.  The less said about my muscles the next day the better.  Swore I was never going to do another trail run again.....

Just signed up for the BTU30 .....  6 months to train. 😎

Well done on that, not exactly an easy course!  I saw both the 21 and 52km courses are already sold out for this July - did get a place on the 52km and will aim for a better performance than 18 months ago when I was a bit underdone to say the least.

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I've pulled out of Dragon's Back, mainly due to work pressure and not being able to commit properly.

However, UTMB have opened a 2nd round of invites as it didn't sell out on Jan. I still qualify for CCC so I've lobbed €50 on the lottery hat. Can't see it going ahead but we'll see.

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13 hours ago, FatPom said:

I've pulled out of Dragon's Back, mainly due to work pressure and not being able to commit properly.

I was wondering how your training was going the other day with the continuing lockdown and generally foul weather. Good move by the sound of it, that’s one heck of a challenging race which needs total respect. 

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5 hours ago, truck said:

I was wondering how your training was going the other day with the continuing lockdown and generally foul weather. Good move by the sound of it, that’s one heck of a challenging race which needs total respect. 

Yeah a few factors but mainly work and the uncertain situation with lockdown and not being able to get the recces in.  Work is crazy at the moment and not getting better..

My race calendar currently looks like this:

South Down Way 100 mile - mid June

The Plague (been called that for years) 64 mile - early Aug

Wendover Woods 50 mile - Nov

Arc of Attrition 50mile- Jan 2022

If UTMB happens, it will be late Aug but we are on holiday (hopefully) before that but after The Plague race (Cornwall), so it will be a flurry of activity.  I'm hoping I get a UTMB spot but also hoping it doesn't go ahead, which means a spot next year but next year must already be pretty full with deferrals, so we'll see.

Training is going ok ish. I'm doing a target volume every 3wks, knock it back to 40km on the 4th week, then up it again. Currently I'm on 60km p/w and trying to maintain 3hrs of riding. I will get to 100km weeks but won't go beyond that, which hopefully will set me up for SDW100 nicely.

It's the vert sessions I'm missing. My regular repeat hill is a mud bath at the moment and I just can't get to many other hills. Might have to resort to road hill repeats but I don't like them much.

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On 06/02/2021 at 5:43 PM, FatPom said:

South Down Way 100 mile - mid June

The Plague (been called that for years) 64 mile - early Aug

Wendover Woods 50 mile - Nov

That in itself is some pretty serious mileage! Contemplated doing the 100k Guzzler (4400m of climbing) but opted instead to try and better my time on the 53k (2200m) version instead in July. Some shorter stuff between now and then and still riding a fair bit. Recovery time from 100 miler must be significant?

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9 hours ago, truck said:

That in itself is some pretty serious mileage! Contemplated doing the 100k Guzzler (4400m of climbing) but opted instead to try and better my time on the 53k (2200m) version instead in July. Some shorter stuff between now and then and still riding a fair bit. Recovery time from 100 miler must be significant?

haha yeah I guess so but I've never done it, so not sure.  TBH, the only reason I entered The Plague is because it's run by the same folks that do Arc of Attrition.  I don't qualify for their 100mile option (which is what I really want, even though it's in winter in Cornwall!).  You need to complete a 100km or do one of their 50milers but they are sold out.

So my 'not so cunning' plan is to do their 64mile Plague race and beg for an upgrade from the 50 to the 100 for Arc.  I'll be too old to make the cut off on a lot of these soon.  I'm moving ok but it gets harder, plus I'm carrying 8kegs extra than I'm finding harder and harder to shift. (that's all my own fault).

I did a 52km with 2600mtrs in 2019 and my god that was hard, took me 9hr56!    I think CCC has 6000 vert in 101km, uggh

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27 minutes ago, FatPom said:

What is the terrain like?

Very up and down looking at the profile. I don't know alot about the trails, how wide they are or what the surface is. Apparently it uses some of the Two Bays course.

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2 hours ago, Naut said:

Very up and down looking at the profile. I don't know alot about the trails, how wide they are or what the surface is. Apparently it uses some of the Two Bays course.

21km doesn't sound far but depending on the vert, it can still sting.  If it's undulating, then a steady trot might be ok but I'd advise walking the hills.  Are you using road shoes?  is it baked hard ground?

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12 hours ago, FatPom said:

21km doesn't sound far but depending on the vert, it can still sting.  If it's undulating, then a steady trot might be ok but I'd advise walking the hills.  Are you using road shoes?  is it baked hard ground?

Yeah I really don't know what to expect, except that it goes up Arthur's Seat. The ground will be hard because it's summer, but I don't know if it will be covered in gravel. I am also not sure if it is narrow and twisty or more open. I am going to be on road shoes so i will just go in open to whatever happens.

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