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Cardinal Pell


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All I can say is that I am glad that Tim has done what he has....to bring it to the forefront and have people realize a little more of what may have been done, all I can do is wait my turn to give evi

I probably have a bit of a unique insight into this. I was at the school when the attacks happened: in year 11 to be exact. I knew/know many exCcathedral College choir kids. I attended the masses and

To be fair, Pell was a senior cleric in parishes all over the state/country that have had thousands of cases of proven child sexual abuse. In all these cases, it has since emerged that there were alwa

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Re: Legal Fees. I'm sure that Maddy Devine, The Bolt & The Tonser will hold a series of fundraisers hosted by Quadrant, The Spectator Oz, The Garfield Barwick Society, the IPA and Sydney Institute. Newscorpse, Hancock Prospecting and Adani will co-sponsor, Gollum Henderson will MC and guest speakers will no doubt include Dyson Hayden AC QC ...

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You lot need to stop picking on an old 70yr old who has devoted his life to his religion and suffered under poverty.

It's not like he has ever flown Business Class or lived like a Rich person getting away with crimes like raping kids.

 

 

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it will be hard to get a jury that has no "catholics that just believe he is innocent because he is a cardinal.  I know he has already jumped on the "can't get a fair trial" band wagon but blind faith is a real issue amongst practicing catholics, many of who go sort of troppo on these matters.  Guess the juries will get challenged heavily at selection. 

 

Absolutely amazed at tony abbotts comments of support, would have thought the mad monk would have just stayed silent but again, as said above, there are all these catholics that just think he is innocent because he is a cardinal. 

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33 minutes ago, goughy said:

Anyone, anyone at all that supports him with donations should hang their head in shame!

I totally agree. Then again. Catholics are farked. 3 Hail Marys and you are forgiven. 

Its how they justify their rape of kids. 

45 minutes ago, roxii said:

Crowdfunding for legal costs has started 

Like the Catholic Church needs more money. 

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48 minutes ago, goughy said:

Anyone, anyone at all that supports him with donations should hang their head in shame!

I wonder how much of the donations at mass will be appropriated for 'national projects' now!

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1 hour ago, FatPom said:

I wonder how much of the donations at mass will be appropriated for 'national projects' now!

first collection goes to the priests whiskey habit

second collection actually goes to good

 

ps....and for all the whisky peeps, its irish catholic

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the specifics of the charges have not been released yet, I believe the judge has yet to decide if they will be released or not.  But there are multiple charges involving multiple complainants. I guess we don't know if these involve him physically abusing kids, or if they are to do with his inaction regarding abuse cases brought before him. I reckon this is about him actually abusing kids himself.

I think a lot of the hearings we're about the fact that reports of abuse by priests were brought to him, and were either ignored or the priests were moved on to other areas where they could continue their abusing.

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  • 9 months later...
46 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Cardinal Pell is to stand trial. About bloody time.

Well, he's either innocent or a sociopath, but unless they can provide more compelling evidence of guilt then I'm not sure how a judge/jury is going to convict him. However, I suspect his days at the Vatican may be over regardless of the outcome.

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He returned here voluntarily, I'm hoping the prosecution got bail conditions including the confiscation of his passport, because if he gets back to the Vatican that'll be the last we see of him.

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Yes, absolutely. As soon as it came up he rushed himself home.  I'm sure it had nothing to do with, say, the Pope telling him to get his arse back here.

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4 hours ago, goughy said:

Yes, absolutely. As soon as it came up he rushed himself home.  I'm sure it had nothing to do with, say, the Pope telling him to get his arse back here.

Yep, should have put voluntarily as "voluntarily".

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4 hours ago, goughy said:

Yes, absolutely. As soon as it came up he rushed himself home.  I'm sure it had nothing to do with, say, the Pope telling him to get his arse back here.

Well that phrase must get used all the time in the Vatican, so I can see how Pell might have been confused.

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I worked on the civil action against Pell's mate, Gerard Ridsdale, and the Catholic Church in the early-mid 1990s when I was doing clerkships in Ballarat. I don't know whether he is guilty or not guilty of what is alleged, but he was complicit in the covering up of the crimes of the Brotherhood and I hope he "swings".

From my dealings, they are an absolutely abhorrent organisation and Pell is a despicable human being.

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13 hours ago, Rimmer said:

I worked on the civil action against Pell's mate, Gerard Ridsdale, and the Catholic Church in the early-mid 1990s when I was doing clerkships in Ballarat. I don't know whether he is guilty or not guilty of what is alleged, but he was complicit in the covering up of the crimes of the Brotherhood and I hope he "swings".

From my dealings, they are an absolutely abhorrent organisation and Pell is a despicable human being.

You know what I don't get is that people keep sending their kids to Catholic schools and giving the church money so their kids can keep going to them.  Not to mention they also tell everyone their Catholic.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen at other schools, but knowing what people actually know about the cover-ups and what has happened re convictions, how could anyone still send their kids and hand money over to a corrupt (ethics wise) institution these days?

 

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You know, in my town my kids public high school is generally rated (based on op scores 1 - 5) around equal third best in town to send your kids to.  It gets beaten by the big boys school and one of the girls schools here, both costing about $16k/yr plus other associated fees (another 21k each for boarding), and then usually is on equal footing with the next big girls school.  The boys school clearly wins out, but I've also seen the kid who has to take 3 bags to school each day to carry all his stuff.  But, at my kids school, if you separate the girls and boys results, the girls there do better than every other girls school in town.  Heck, even then the boys results match or better the other boys schools.  Thanks god our neighbourhood got rezoned into that schools zone the year before my daughter started.  So there is absolutely no reason at all (really, not even for a boy) to send your kid to any other school in my town if you have the chance to send them to my kids school!

Even better, they also have the laxist uniform code in town; where every other high school wears standard formal each day, ours only has 3 or 4 formal uniform days a term, the rest of the time it's sports uniform and trackies - can even wear any type of runner (has to be a runner, not Converse type etc) that they want in any colour.  We only have to iron 3 or 4 times a term - it's friggin awesome!

Stick that up your arse god and church!

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8 hours ago, Peter said:

You know what I don't get is that people keep sending their kids to Catholic schools and giving the church money so their kids can keep going to them.  Not to mention they also tell everyone their Catholic.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen at other schools, but knowing what people actually know about the cover-ups and what has happened re convictions, how could anyone still send their kids and hand money over to a corrupt (ethics wise) institution these days?

 

This is something we explored in talking with some of the victims. Some of them have fallen out with family members who don't believe that the Church could do anything so orchestrated and evil. Some still continue to attend looking for some form of salvation. Some find another religion. Some (too many) have looked for salvation in the bottle / drugs or taken their own lives. None are the same afterwards.

People want to believe in something - we, as humans, are drawn to look for something else when we are suffering. I think it's a curiosity of trying to improve your own situation or looking for an escape. 

I grew up in a very strong Catholic town. The Catholic schools, single-sex when I was there, had armies of kids they could send to play us at sport and it wasn't really fair .... we had 350 boys to draw from and they had 1100! Some of the 9ths rowing crews had beards! The schools and the Churches are very protective of keeping their parishioners sweet - there is too much of an industry at stake. Hence, they feed the beast that then feeds them. Weirdly, there were people attaching ribbons to the fence of the Cathedral, then walking inside for a service. 

I gave up on all forms of religion after being involved in this. I choose to believe in myself and my own values, not a mythical fairy story with pixies and elves and stuff that never happened.

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Not necessarily about Pell, but damn good to see something was done about this.  50 years ago, when the church still has significant power and was above reproach, regardless of what people "knew"....

It's something, though really too late for him.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-07/denis-ryan-victorian-detective-police-pension-booted-force/9645982

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On 3/5/2018 at 9:55 AM, Peter said:

You know what I don't get is that people keep sending their kids to Catholic schools and giving the church money so their kids can keep going to them.  Not to mention they also tell everyone their Catholic.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen at other schools, but knowing what people actually know about the cover-ups and what has happened re convictions, how could anyone still send their kids and hand money over to a corrupt (ethics wise) institution these days?

 

Because most catholics ignore strict adherence to Church law (whcih I feel is out of touch with modern society) like divorce, contraception, sex outside marriage, same sex marriage etc. Most wouldn't know who is in any position outside their own Parish except the Pope and only hear what is in the media. Most would think their children will recieve a better education, pastoral care, better facilities or school culture than the local government high school. Most would also send their kids to school with 100% lay teachers. Most would also (rightly or wrongly) think that the institutional abuse was historical and a thing of the past. Most are Catholics of convenience, get their kids baptised so they qualify for enrolment in local Catholic school 5 years later. Most of these so called evangelical catholics Peter mentions would never attend Mass and certainly never tell anyone they are Catholic, the vast majority (including relatively devout) would be ashamed of the scandals involving people like Pell and some would have drifted away from the church because of this.

 

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Locally, we have a couple of cases of abuse within Catholic private schools that don't fit the descriptor "historical".  Though of course, not involving priests.

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21 hours ago, Parkside said:

Because most catholics ignore strict adherence to Church law (whcih I feel is out of touch with modern society) like divorce, contraception, sex outside marriage, same sex marriage etc. Most wouldn't know who is in any position outside their own Parish except the Pope and only hear what is in the media. Most would think their children will recieve a better education, pastoral care, better facilities or school culture than the local government high school. Most would also send their kids to school with 100% lay teachers. Most would also (rightly or wrongly) think that the institutional abuse was historical and a thing of the past. Most are Catholics of convenience, get their kids baptised so they qualify for enrolment in local Catholic school 5 years later. Most of these so called evangelical catholics Peter mentions would never attend Mass and certainly never tell anyone they are Catholic, the vast majority (including relatively devout) would be ashamed of the scandals involving people like Pell and some would have drifted away from the church because of this.

 

It's also the free and easy absolution that doesn't deal with the problem ... a couple of HMs and you're on your way. It fails to deal with the underlying problem....

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8 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I wonder how many "Hail mary's" Pell will have to do to make this all go away?

I think it might be out of his direct control. 

Looking through the article on Denis Ryan, that is how some communities dealt with matters up until the 1990s. There was still a very Catholic force in the Ballarat Police and it became more entrenched the further you went to the SA border. Portland and Warrnambool were almost exclusively Catholic Police forces and they had a 2-stage approach to "right-footers"...

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

You may not be aware but the famous journalist  Walter "Robby" Robinson is in Sydney and Melbourne to headline a series of media.

He is the man accredited with most of the work of famous work by the Spot Light team from the Boston Globe regarding the catholic church, abuse and cover ups in Boston.  I hadn't seen the academy award wining film "Spotlight" but it is on Netflix so I watched it last night.  A real eye opener and it has changed my view on proceedings against cardinal pell, seeing him more like his Boston counterpart Cardinal Law (who was forced to resign from his Boston position but not the church and went to the Vatican).

There is an incredible exchange with a psychiatrist that goes like this:

We think we have 13 priests in Boston, that fits this pattern, which would be a very, very big story.
Does that sound right to you? In terms of scale?
No, not really, Robby. Sounds low to me.
My estimate suggests 6% act out sexually with minors.
6%, of what?
6% of all priests.
How many priest do we have in Boston?
About 1.500, 1% is 15, 6% is... 90?
- Right, 90 priests.
- Is that possible?
From a metric standpoint. Yes. That would certainly be amount of my findings.
Hello? 90 ****ing priests? In Boston?
That's what he said.
If there were 90 of these bastards, people would know.
- Maybe they do.
- And no one said a thing?

They went on to find the actual number, 87.

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I saw him on either The Project or News Breakfast the other day, I thought he said it was up to the 200's now?  Something like 15% now.  He said something like the investigation team went from the initial 3 to about 11. 

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On 23/05/2018 at 11:14 AM, Ex-Hasbeen said:

One Archbishop down. Hopefully the authorities won't be scared of taking down high ranking church officials now. Here or elsewhere in the world.

This one was close to home. I'm glad they got him.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hmmmm, too sick to go to jail, suffering alzheimers, depression, anxiety, too frail, may get assaulted - but not too sick to hold the position of archbishop which he still technically hasn't resigned from!!

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3 hours ago, goughy said:

Hmmmm, too sick to go to jail, suffering alzheimers, depression, anxiety, too frail, may get assaulted - but not too sick to hold the position of archbishop which he still technically hasn't resigned from!!

We had Ronald Mulkearns in Ballarat for over a quarter of a century and as soon as the $hit hit the fan for him and he was implicated in the cover-up, they pensioned him off to a friendly retirement home in Apollo Bay where he saw out his years. 

I bet the old CC will be pulling the same stunt with Pell if / when he gets tried! 

The Catholic Church ... a business too big to fail!

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  • 1 month later...

He can't as he's challenging his conviction, no doubt using money from the collection plate filled by people could just have easily been victims of this horrid organisation.

ETA:  Apparently still a bishop, just resigned as an archbishop.  I guess at least they're true to form in retaining but shifting their problem children.

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10 hours ago, noknees said:

Wilson resigns. But still not a single word of remorse.

Why would there be any remorse? They still think they did nothing!

Pell next. He must have known about Ridsdale and all of the other Paedos.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Many govt departments used to recruit on the basis of religion years ago, some possibly still do ?  Rail, Education, Health, Emergency services.  Being a mason back then was considered a smart career move.

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5 hours ago, XCOM! said:

So, 12mths home detention, possibly at a relative's house.

I work from home and hardly ever get out - other than wearing a tracker, that's probably not much different to my normal life.

Cuts down on any commuting time he had.

What a f*&king joke! Any DPP Office worth their salt would be appealing. Don't hold your breath, though.

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3 hours ago, Merv said:

Many govt departments used to recruit on the basis of religion years ago, some possibly still do ?  Rail, Education, Health, Emergency services.  Being a mason back then was considered a smart career move.

The Police in Victoria was one of the most sectarian organisations around. If you were a "Prod" in a "left-footer" town, it was trouble.

Honestly, all this over a belief in an imaginary friend!

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