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Cardinal Pell


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Did he truly say this? May be the most truthful thing he's said thus far. I'm sure there'll be statements that it was taken out of context.

 

If he really said this, then he is worse than I even imagined. I never thought he necessarily did anything to kids himself. It's one thing to be the sick **** who touches kids. It's completely another, and if you ask me nearly worse, to be the not sick ****er that turns a blind eye because 'it's not interesting enough' for them! ****er needs to burn.

I have no doubt he and the Vatican media / legal team will have rehearsed the possible questions and answers and had him practice under pressure etc. It's not the first time he's had to play this role.

So why this "poor" answer? .... Maybe one thing that's possibly working in the commissions favour is he is answering these questions late at night early am...

With a bit more luck a few more cracks and real answers might show up on day three.

Edited by Mjainoz
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All I can say is that I am glad that Tim has done what he has....to bring it to the forefront and have people realize a little more of what may have been done, all I can do is wait my turn to give evi

I probably have a bit of a unique insight into this. I was at the school when the attacks happened: in year 11 to be exact. I knew/know many exCcathedral College choir kids. I attended the masses and

To be fair, Pell was a senior cleric in parishes all over the state/country that have had thousands of cases of proven child sexual abuse. In all these cases, it has since emerged that there were alwa

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While not being able to find coverage of his latest testimony, Ex's point is exactly what I was going to say, this crap sounds like some politician's weasel words, not those of a man of God. And the vatican and their machinations to maintain central power and influence are akin to politicians in Parliament House, far removed from everyday life. Pope Francis has been like a breath of fresh air, hopefully he can clean out some dead wood as Pell's polling numbers would not be tracking well, to coin a phrase.

it goes further than that mate. ive watched every syllable since the start. make no mistake. furniss and mclellan are building a case that makes his denial of knowledge of risdale's pedophilia implausiable. he was a consultor in multiple meetings where risdale was moved from parish to parish. it has been established that it was wider public knowledge that risdale offended. risdale had 14 year old paul levey living with him at mortlake presbytery and abused him every day. people knew...pell's answers today were self serving. the more furniss dug the more implausible his denials of knowledge became. they are building a very strong and serious case. the best evidence comes tomorrow in his capacity of auxilliary bishop and his overseeing troop movements...the commissioners will take a dim view of his denials...imo

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I've stayed out of this one as I found it all very disturbing, but reading this:

 

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/notorius-paedophile-priest-gerald-ridsdale-jailed-for-eight-years-20140408-36aom.html

 

specifically this:

 

"Tragically, many thought that they were to blame for your actions. To me, one of the most tragic comments I heard was that "if I had ‘taken my turn’ maybe my little brothers would have had happier lives".

I hope they are all held to account and hope that people take the politicing out of it

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In the early - mid 1990s, I worked on the civil action against the Catholic Church in the Ballarat diocese. I have every belief Pell knew at the time and in the years leading up to the imprisonment of Ridsdale and others. The witness depositions in this case are stories that will never leave the victims.

 

Truly vile men and a vile institution.

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In the early - mid 1990s, I worked on the civil action against the Catholic Church in the Ballarat diocese. I have every belief Pell knew ...

... that will never leave the victims.

Truly vile men and a vile institution.

Wow. ... Interesting. Must be hard to sit through this stuff. But harder to know about it for so long I guess. Edited by Mjainoz
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I'm Christian (Pentecostal Baptised as an adult - and not Hillsong) I'm starting to question all of my beliefs... :confused1:

 

There's nothing wrong with questioning your beliefs - everyone should do it over the course of their lives. Not everything we are taught as children is going to be right - and that includes religion.

 

Here's a video which is worth a look for the alternative view

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Bolt has turned on PELL

 

 

Meanwhile Cardinal George Pell appears to have lost his staunchest ally as News Ltd columnist Andrew Bolt launched a withering attack on the man he has long described as the victim of a witch hunt.

 

In his column today, Bolt says the Cardinal "uttered the words that will stain his reputation forever" when he said that the story of notorious paedophile priest Gerald Ridsdale "wasn't of much interest to me".

Bolt asks if the Vatican's "third-most powerful leader" is "a liar when he says he never knew what Ridsdale, his colleague, was doing in Ballarat". "Or was he just dangerously indifferent to his responsibilities and to the warning signs that children were being raped?"

Bolt is in Rome to cover the Cardinal's testimony and is due to interview him directly after the final hearing on Thursday for Sky TV.



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/live-coverage-day-three-of-cardinal-george-pell-before-the-abuse-royal-commission-in-rome-20160301-gn7xzr.html#ixzz41h2DlRhA
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I can't read what Bolt actually said (there is no way I'd pay for a Daily Smellograph account) ... has bolt REALLY turned on Pell or is it simply a few comments that have been exaggerated?

 

I also ready with interest this morning that senior catholic priests in Rome have labelled this whole thing as 'without basis' and an 'the worst form of inquisition' and a 'fishing trip'.

 

Apparently senior clergy aren't that bothered by hundreds of kids being raped by fellow priests ...

 

I guess its not seen (by them) as a serious issue, like preventing gay people from marrying, for example....

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I agree with what MickBillFrank,

 

Through the questioning they are building a case against Pell.

 

It appears highly unlikely that they are going to hear Pell say he knew, or should have known, or should have acted. He is answering questions to protect his own butt!

 

However, it is looking increasingly as though its pretty much implausible for him to say he didn't know. All of these reported cases of abuse, it appears everyone but Pell knew - victims, teachers, parents, other clergy. There were rumours, reports, complaints and conversations. Meetings to discuss moving priests from one place to another ...

 

It seems, if Pell didn't know, he is likely to be the only person in all of Australia that wasn't aware.

 

Its a pretty long stretch to accept that everyone knew, spoke of it, rumours abounded, priests were moved, complaints were made ..... and Pell, at the centre of it, simply had no clue.

 

I don't buy it!

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Sadly I was just talking to my mum about it and she (a uniting ministers wife/my dad) believes it is extremely possible he didn't know.

 

She said in the uniting church high up they had no idea what was going on in actual churches. They were to busy building the property empire of aged care facilities rather than worrying about what was going on in uniting churches. She said the same could be the case for the Catholics and Pell.

 

I don't buy it

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On The Project, Hugh Rimmington was saying they've heard the Vatican is not very happy with some of the evidence that has come up in the last few days...

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On The Project, Hugh Rimmington was saying they've heard the Vatican is not very happy with some of the evidence that has come up in the last few days...

I would think the Vatican would be well served to get in the front foot and "crucify" a few of their own. It would be good PR for them and the new pope, they wouldn't lose too much as most implicated are either already dead retired or in jail only a few tools like Pell remain.

Considering I'm in catholic heartland here in Belfast at the moment, the help and support the church have give to my dying mother and my father has been nothing short of fantastic and I doubt my father would cope nearly as well going forward without his faith.

It's just a shame that they have to live with the stain on their faith that this has caused.

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Wow. ... Interesting. Must be hard to sit through this stuff. But harder to know about it for so long I guess.

 

It is interesting and I do hope how much was known will come out. The sad thing is that the victims that the Firm I worked for represented haven't been able to move on. It's cost them more of their lives, relationships, addictions and the list goes on.

 

One victim, who is only 2 years older than me, looks like he's aged 30 years in the 10 since I have seen him.

 

What staggers me is that Pell and the Church (although I'm sure there will be a very frank debrief when this is over) haven't understood that this is doing irreparable damage to the Church. Personally - and as a direct result of working on this case - I don't care for any religion, but I will allow people to believe what they want to believe in. What Pell and others have done and are doing is killing something that, for some people, is their reason for being, for hoping.

 

Selfish, arrogant, evil men and women!

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The Catholic church is possible the worst organisation in the World.

 

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/03/02/world/crime-legal-world/two-u-s-bishops-hid-40-years-sex-abuse-hundreds-kids-grand-jury-report/

 

 

ALTOONA, PENNSYLVANIA – Two Roman Catholic bishops who led a Pennsylvania diocese helped cover up the sexual abuse of hundreds of children by over 50 priests or religious leaders over a 40-year period, according to a grand jury report issued Tuesday.

The report on the Altoona-Johnstown Diocese was based partly on evidence from a secret diocesan archive uncovered through a search warrant executed last year, said Pennsylvania Attorney General Kathleen Kane.

“These predators desecrated a sacred trust and preyed upon their victims in the very places where they should have felt most safe,” Kane said in a statement.

No criminal charges are being filed because some abusers have died, the statute of limitations has expired and, in some cases, victims are too traumatized to testify, she said.

The report is especially critical of Bishops James Hogan and Joseph Adamec. Hogan, who led the diocese from 1966 to 1986, died in 2005. Adamec, who succeeded him, retired in 2011.

The report said Hogan covered up abuse allegations by transferring offending priests, including by sending one accused clergyman to a school for boys. It said Adamec or his staff threatened some alleged victims with excommunication.

One diocesan official under Hogan, Monsignor Philip Saylor, told the grand jury that church officials held such sway that “the police and civil authorities would often defer to the diocese” when priests were accused of abuse, the report said.

The report said Adamec created a “payout chart” to help guide how much victims would receive from the church. Victims fondled over their clothes were to be paid $10,000 to $25,000; fondled under their clothes or subjected to masturbation, $15,000 to $40,000; subjected to forced oral sex, $25,000 to $75,000; subjected to forced sodomy or intercourse, $50,000 to $175,000.

In a court filing, Adamec’s attorney said the accusations against the 80-year-old are unfounded. Adamec required 14 priests accused under his watch to undergo psychiatric evaluation, the filing said. Nine were suspended or removed from ministry, and the five who were reinstated never re-offended, his attorney wrote.

The current bishop, Mark Bartchak, is not accused of wrongdoing. He recently suspended a handful of priests named as alleged abusers in the report, though the grand jury said it remains “concerned the purge of predators is taking too long.”

Bartchak, issued a statement saying he deeply regrets “any harm that has come to children.” He said the diocese will continue cooperating with authorities.

The clergy sex abuse crisis erupted in 2002, when The Boston Globe persuaded a judge to unseal files from the Boston Archdiocese in the case of a pedophile priest who had been transferred by bishops from parish to parish without warning parents or civil authorities. The scandal then spread nationwide as Catholics and others demanded to know the full scope of wrongdoing.

Dioceses across the country have been forced to release thousands of internal files on accused priests.

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops estimates that American dioceses have paid nearly $4 billion since 1950 to settle claims with victims.

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My great uncle was a priest (died), Cardinal Gilroy (years ago) was a relative. My Aunty is a nun (83). There are some spectacular Catholics in the world that do great deeds and give their life for others. My mother and her 2 sisters (not including the nun) devote/devoted their life to helping other people sometimes at the expense of their own life.

 

Most of the philosophy is not too dissimilar to what most of us want - to look after each other with dignity and respect. Unfortunately the minority of ratbags far outweigh the great work the majority do. That being said, those ratbags need to be accountable for their actions.

 

FM

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My great uncle was a priest (died), Cardinal Gilroy (years ago) was a relative. My Aunty is a nun (83). There are some spectacular Catholics in the world that do great deeds and give their life for others. My mother and her 2 sisters (not including the nun) devote/devoted their life to helping other people sometimes at the expense of their own life.

 

Most of the philosophy is not too dissimilar to what most of us want - to look after each other with dignity and respect. Unfortunately the minority of ratbags far outweigh the great work the majority do. That being said, those ratbags need to be accountable for their actions.

 

FM

 

Agree with this - "religion" is a fairly universal concept that those with the faculty to accept and respect will follow, without being forced into it. There are widely respected Catholics, Anglicans, Muslims, Jews etc etc who have all done good work, and will probably continue to do so.

 

For me, the issue becomes real when people are subjected to things they may not believe in because of some "higher being". That, is coercion. And, depending on the severity of the event, needs recourse.

 

The other point that hasn't come out is the abuse by the nuns in the orphanages / care homes / girls homes. My view is that this is being buried because, as vile as it is to think that these deeds can be perpetrated by men, it is seemingly unthinkable that they would be committed by women. We had evidence of this when working on the Ridsdale civil action, but couldn't locate any of the victims as they had moved away, changed names, gone to ground or committed suicide.

 

This is going to hit the fan when it comes out!

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There's been a few articles about the nuns, one quoted by roxii a few posts back. The main "issue" with the nuns not being mentioned is because I think all of them are now dead.

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  • 1 month later...

Just read in the paper that the child abuse commission has heard from approx. 5200 individuals who were abused.

 

There is another 1600 or so on the waiting list to give evidence.

 

They are holding 37 closed sessions per day to get through as many victims as possible, but they will have to stop any more applicants from appearing because they are running out of time (Commission due to report in December next year, so need to get onto some other stuff I guess....)

 

So, nearly 7000 individuals will have given evidence, with the true number probably MUCH MUCH higher (how many have died? how many have buried the abuse to the back of their minds? or are too ashamed to come forward? or who have never admitted it to family, let alone to a royal commission ...??)

 

By any measure, that's an unbelievable amount of people to have been abused ....

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  • 1 year later...

Considering that he's still in Rome do you think there's any chance of him being brought to justice if he is?

 

Putrid f*cking scum, the entire Catholic church.  And if the members of said church won't stand up and send the message to the leaders that they must do something to help bringing these people to account then I include them in that assessment.  There should be empty pews until they stop protecting themselves.

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I did just say charged....... I in no way believe the church will send him home. He'll be holed up in the Vatican for the rest of his life no doubt.

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The concerning thing about that is that it would be so easy for the church to throw him to the wolves and would help their public image immensely.  How scared must they be of the dirt he could offer authorities if pushed?

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25 minutes ago, goughy said:

I did just say charged....... I in no way believe the church will send him home. He'll be holed up in the Vatican for the rest of his life no doubt.

I'm not a catholic, but I think the current Pope is a good guy and if he Pell was charged, he would send him back to australia.

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They wont send the grub back, if he is convicted its coin central, damages, assets..... the Church never puts people before money, the boston grub is case in point.

The grub isnt fit to fly to Australia to face his community but he is fit to fly to London....if he can do that he can fly slowly to Australia old school like, a few hours at a time. 

Its time practising catholics stood up and refused to go to mass until the grub is brought to justice. The hypocrisy is stunning and sad, putting dogma before humanity.

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31 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

They wont send the grub back, if he is convicted its coin central, damages, assets..... the Church never puts people before money, the boston grub is case in point.

The grub isnt fit to fly to Australia to face his community but he is fit to fly to London....if he can do that he can fly slowly to Australia old school like, a few hours at a time. 

Its time practising catholics stood up and refused to go to mass until the grub is brought to justice. The hypocrisy is stunning and sad, putting dogma before humanity.

I couldn't agree more - if he can do a flight like that, he could do one to Australia, old-school. He needs a subpoena to appear and damn the consequences.

They won't though. They'll march along like lemmings every week and follow, follow, follow .... really quite sad.

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  • 1 month later...

Bump.

 

Coming home voluntarily, apparently to face the music.

 

Timing of charges probably has a lot to do with the recent HC decision in the Robert Hughes "Hey Dad" case. I suspect that the Vic DPP held off recommending prosecution of Cardinal Pell until the conflict between Victoria and other jurisdictions over the admissibility of 'tendency evidence' in historical child sexual assault cases was resolved.

The Hughes decision is likely to significantly strengthen the prosecution case against Pell, given the the presence of multiple complainants and multiple charges. Now evidence in one count is more likely to be cross admissible in relation to other counts as 'tendency evidence'. Something that was previously severely restricted in Victoria - due to the Victorian Courts 'independent thinking' on the subject until that was explicitly knocked on the head by the High Court in Hughes - cf. [2017] HCA 20 (14 June 2017) per Majority at pars [29 - 65]. ...

Edited by Andrew #1
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4 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

Bump.

 

Coming home voluntarily, apparently to face the music.

 

Timing of charges probably has a lot to do with the recent HC decision in the Robert Hughes "Hey Dad" case. I suspect that the Vic DPP held off recommending prosecution of Cardinal Pell until the conflict between Victoria and other jurisdictions over the admissibility of 'tendency evidence' in historical child sexual assault cases was resolved.

The Hughes decision is likely to significantly strengthen the prosecution case against Pell, given the the presence of multiple complainants and multiple charges. Now evidence in one count is more likely to be cross admissible in relation to other counts as 'tendency evidence'. Something that was previously severely restricted in Victoria - due to the Victorian Courts 'independent thinking' on the subject until that was explicitly knocked on the head by the High Court in Hughes - cf. [2017] HCA 20 (14 June 2017) per Majority at pars [29 - 65]. ...

So, Hey Dad! becomes Hey Father!

Sorry, couldn't resist that one. 

Having worked on the Ridsdale civil case, I know that Pell knew what was going on. At the time Ridsdale was doing what he was doing and after when Pell and the Archdiocese of Ballarat Mafia covered it up. As to whether Pell is guilty or not, I don't know, but time to face the music ....

What goes around, comes around!

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It's good to see he is well enough to travel home voluntarily to defend his name whereas he was at risk of death if he had to come home for the royal commission, and that his employer is so accommodating by giving him leave to do so.

I am happy for him that his health has recovered so well.  Hopefully the health of victims of child abuse committed by members of the church can recover in such a dramatic fashion and their employers can be so accommodating.

Edited by Wronggenes
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1 hour ago, tortoise said:

I'd like to know how he will fund his legal fees. Chastity, poverty and all that. 

are you talking the church or those who give to the church?

the church certainly ain't poor

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It is a pleasant change to see that the Vatican hasnt gone the whole 9 yards in closing ranks around him and defending him outright. 

Might cut him free to "save the brand" 

 

As for the money Pell "should" have no money personally, and the Sydney Archdiocese have said they will accommodate him while here but will not foot the legal bill.  So it begs the question who will pay, maybe he will go legal aid :lol: 

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