Cardinal Pell

[goughy 3,726]

I know.  But still, that's a huge number of kids.......

[Prince 880]

9 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

It's been revealed this morning that the 100+ students that have received compensation from Brisbane Grammar School for abuse by their former counselor Kevin Lynch have had to sign NDA's. Surely forcing you to sign an NDA changes it from compensation, to hush money.

yep, and he gassed himself about 5 years ago. 

[Ex-Hasbeen 8,122]

18 minutes ago, Prince said:

yep, and he gassed himself about 5 years ago. 

The day after he was charged I think.

[Prince 880]

1 minute ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

The day after he was charged I think.

yes. it was actually in 97. my mistake.  The numbers receiving compensation is pretty high but it was over several years. there also would be a few that may be bogus but joined a class action. I don't know if St Pauls has paid anything but skippy spent some time there. 

Like Pell, he denied doing anything but I doubt you would take your own life if you weren't guilty. 

[goughy 3,726]

One of the complainants in the secondary case against Pell that's since been dropped is filling a suit against him, the church, his school and I think the Vic government today.  He's devastated the case was dropped after the courts deemed vital evidence inadmissible.

[XCOM.! 63]

So, Abbott can't recall if he provided or was asked to provide a personal reference for Pell.

WTF? - How could you not remember something like that?

[goughy 3,726]

He doesn't want his constituents to know he was asked, and that he refused to do so.  Since he seems to be in the innocent until appeal/retrial...

Of course he knows if he was asked our not.  I wouldn't forget if I was asked, and I'm not a devout Catholic who once attended seminary and even rang the guilty party the day after his trial to talk.  Maybe he told Pell not to ask him, so he doesn't have to lie about refusing him?  Join Howard I guess doesn't have anything to lose by supporting him, Abbott may possibly still...

[trinube 1,777]

On 4 Corners now - i didn't think I could hate Pell any more but I was wrong

[ComfortablyNumb 1,116]

11 hours ago, trinube said:

On 4 Corners now - i didn't think I could hate Pell any more but I was wrong

Yup, that sealed it for me.  Guilty as in my view.

The most credible witness was the bloke from the Torquay Surf Club who caught him naked & acting inappropriately in front of some young boys & told Pell to piss off. 

And I'd forgotten about the Ballarat pool events which for some reason were thrown out of court, but those 3 blokes sounded pretty convincing to me.

Pell comes across as an arrogant & self-assured prick, but I'd say he's either in self-denial or just a classic narcissist.

 

[goughy 3,726]

Are you taking about the upcoming case that's been dropped?  I wonder what the evidence was that the courts won't permit, which clearly was key?

[Steno 444]

On 26/02/2019 at 5:19 PM, more said:

What I don't understand, and I mean this sincerely is how on earth two 13 year old boys didn't fight back or tell anyone? I understand maybe back in the 50ies when they would have feared no one believing them etc but this case was back in 1996 when this type of stuff was public knowledge?? Also they were 13 year olds, not little boys. Most 13 year olds boys I know would have no problem smashing you in the face if you tried something like that. 

I dunno, maybe these types of sickos only prey on the weak that they know wont fight back or say anything  

I probably have a bit of a unique insight into this. I was at the school when the attacks happened: in year 11 to be exact. I knew/know many exCcathedral College choir kids. I attended the masses and celebrations.

I have met George numerous times. At school and at church. He is a big imposing man. My recollection is he would have to be 6'4+. Dad is 6'3 and George is definitely bigger. He would have been 110kgs+.  He would have been mid 50's as well so still relatively fit. For comparison, when I was 13, I would have been lucky to be 5' and 50kgs. He towers over you.

The main thing for me, was the kids where all on a catholic funded scholarship. This is a power imbalance when the very person paying / authorising your school fees is the man who is attacking you - its abhorrent.  I can see very easily why kids wouldn't speak up then. Your parents would have been so pleased that you are going to good, strong, catholic school and getting the education that they potentially couldnt afford - for free and you as a 13yr old are going to destroy this? Remember 1990's, the whole catholic ring hadnt been fully exposed. Who would believe you and your claims against the man who has stated he would solve the emerging "Melbourne" problem?

I can not confidently say that I would have spoken up if I had been "chosen". I really don't know; however I do vividly remember my mum asking questions along similar lines every so often to give me the opportunity to speak up - I think she had a sense that something wasn't quite right with a priest or two.

 

[goughy 3,726]

Sorry Steno, I'm out of "Likes" for the day.....  But Like.

[goughy 3,726]

2 hours ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

Yup, that sealed it for me.  Guilty as in my view.

The most credible witness was the bloke from the Torquay Surf Club who caught him naked & acting inappropriately in front of some young boys & told Pell to piss off. 

And I'd forgotten about the Ballarat pool events which for some reason were thrown out of court, but those 3 blokes sounded pretty convincing to me.

Pell comes across as an arrogant & self-assured prick, but I'd say he's either in self-denial or just a classic narcissist.

 

I'll have to watch it on iView at lunch, not that I need extra convincing.

[roxii 7,187]

Having been to Catholic schools, looking back in hindsight there was soo much going on that was suss or potentially suss that it is astounding. 

When families are that invested in the church, having a priest or brother taking a special interest in a child was seen as a bit of a privileged by the family and the families actively encouraged it (we now know it as grooming) 

In our school there were some "lucky" kids who got to go away with some teachers on the weekends "camping" not on official school outings. 

Glad I missed out on that one. 

[ComfortablyNumb 1,116]

51 minutes ago, roxii said:

Having been to Catholic schools, looking back in hindsight there was soo much going on that was suss or potentially suss that it is astounding. 

When families are that invested in the church, having a priest or brother taking a special interest in a child was seen as a bit of a privileged by the family and the families actively encouraged it (we now know it as grooming) 

In our school there were some "lucky" kids who got to go away with some teachers on the weekends "camping" not on official school outings. 

Glad I missed out on that one. 

Agree.  When I was about 6 there was a priest/minister in our tiny little town who started an after-school boys club.  I went once, it was in a barn out the back of his house.  Nothing happened to me, but in hindsight, it was odd.

And in 1st year Uni, we had a course coordinator (weird old bastard) who would invite new students out to his farm for the night.  Thankfully I was warned by an older girl that this was likely to happen (I must have looked like an obvious target) and sure enough he asked me within a week or two.  I declined.  Others in my year ended up out there, though I never heard of anything inappropriate happening.

[fiftyplus 94]

If you can, watch Q&A on ABC iview. A really good panel discussion on Pell and The Catholic Church.

[goughy 3,726]

Thanks 50+. Is it a recent one?

[fiftyplus 94]

Last nights Q&A. 

[roxii 7,187]

28 minutes ago, fiftyplus said:

If you can, watch Q&A on ABC iview. A really good panel discussion on Pell and The Catholic Church.

Kristina Keneally really is the whole package isnt she?

I could watch and listen to her for hours. 

[trinube 1,777]

2 minutes ago, roxii said:

Kristina Keneally really is the whole package isnt she? I could watch and listen to her for hours. 

Yep, hard not to like her.

[trinube 1,777]

3 hours ago, roxii said:

Having been to Catholic schools, looking back in hindsight there was soo much going on that was suss or potentially suss that it is astounding. 

I can't recall if we spoke about this on Sunday but an old work mate of mine went to De La Salle. Early high school years played in their footy teams and they used to shower after the games. At this age (12, 13, 14) they were all shy and used to shower with their undies on but apparently the Brothers would come in and insist they showered naked and they basically hung around and watched.

Not surprising there's been press ads asking for people from this very school (and a few close by) stating they're looking for people who may have had 'suss' experiences in the past. It does make me think they know something and are looking for further evidence.

[fiftyplus 94]

19 minutes ago, roxii said:

Kristina Keneally really is the whole package isnt she?

I could watch and listen to her for hours. 

The whole panel was great including Rabbi Schmuley.

Edited March 5, 2019 by fiftyplus

[goughy 3,726]

Thx

[goughy 3,726]

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/i-am-angry-pells-key-defence-barrister-robert-richter-quits/news-story/4cfa8039c4ae19720c1f890310b04cd3

[goughy 3,726]

I only just found out today, from reading an article in reply to Bolt's comments regarding Pell, that Andrew Bolt isn't catholic....

[Rimmer 684]

Have just finished watching the 4 Corners expose on Pell and I didn't think I could hate the thing more ... but I can. Jumped on the phone to ring my Mum - she was a teacher at Ballarat East Secondary from the early 70s - and she knew so much about this when it was going on as they had to deal with the kids who left St Alipius Primary and those "removed" from St Paul's and St Pat's ..... she told me many complaints were made to the local Police, but they turned a blind eye. 

I don't think we've heard the end of this .....

[Rimmer 684]

13 hours ago, Steno said:

I probably have a bit of a unique insight into this. I was at the school when the attacks happened: in year 11 to be exact. I knew/know many exCcathedral College choir kids. I attended the masses and celebrations.

I have met George numerous times. At school and at church. He is a big imposing man. My recollection is he would have to be 6'4+. Dad is 6'3 and George is definitely bigger. He would have been 110kgs+.  He would have been mid 50's as well so still relatively fit. For comparison, when I was 13, I would have been lucky to be 5' and 50kgs. He towers over you.

The main thing for me, was the kids where all on a catholic funded scholarship. This is a power imbalance when the very person paying / authorising your school fees is the man who is attacking you - its abhorrent.  I can see very easily why kids wouldn't speak up then. Your parents would have been so pleased that you are going to good, strong, catholic school and getting the education that they potentially couldnt afford - for free and you as a 13yr old are going to destroy this? Remember 1990's, the whole catholic ring hadnt been fully exposed. Who would believe you and your claims against the man who has stated he would solve the emerging "Melbourne" problem?

I can not confidently say that I would have spoken up if I had been "chosen". I really don't know; however I do vividly remember my mum asking questions along similar lines every so often to give me the opportunity to speak up - I think she had a sense that something wasn't quite right with a priest or two.

Agreed, but I don't think it is just about physical size and presence alone - but it did help their cause. Dowlan was a weak, tiny little man. Best the same. Ridsdale quite scrawny. 

It is the control and the power of belief - and the power of guilt as well - that enabled them to commit the crimes they did. It's the uniforms, the mystique, the power, the control .... and my involvement in the civil action against the Diocese of Ballarat is why I have no belief in any form of organised religion. Some truly horrible people involved and they are only scratching the surface. 

[goughy 3,726]

And remember, there are a lot of sexualities abuse cases in general that are never reported!  I know someone who didn't even really realise until into their 20's that they'd been molested by someone as a child.  The shame the abused suffer is then compounded by the statute of those abusing them.

With all the comments regarding Pell and his clothing, and the impossibility of the acts due to the functionality of the clothing.  These people are pathological abusers, it is their nature.  Can we not possibly think they haven't accounted for this, and made provisions?  40+ years of abusing kids and they didn't once think, "their has to be a quicker, easier way to get around this?"

[BarryBevan 1,545]

you know he is getting cleared on appeal

[Peter 4,221]

1 hour ago, BarryBevan said:

you know he is getting cleared on appeal

Nah he won’t.

but he will get a soft sentence.  

I don’t think I can watch the 4 corners show.  

[Cottoneyes 1,415]

Anyone else wondering if there is a special taskforce beavering away at the moment in the Vatican organising a papal tour here to ensure the faith (ie Sunday donations) is kept

[Peter 4,221]

59 minutes ago, Cottoneyes said:

Anyone else wondering if there is a special taskforce beavering away at the moment in the Vatican organising a papal tour here to ensure the faith (ie Sunday donations) is kept

It would be a smart move. 

[goughy 3,726]

3 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

you know he is getting cleared on appeal

Sadly, I agree with you.  Can't wait to be proven wrong!

2 hours ago, Peter said:

 

I don’t think I can watch the 4 corners show.  

Watch it.  And the Q&A episode!  

The guy's pure filth!  And the poor mum on Q&A whose kids were obviously abused at Ballarat in the 90's, when she said the first reports of abuse occurred in '54!  The only consolation is if everything about religion and god is true, there will be a special place in hell for them.  I hope it's like on Lucifer!  

I was fairly impressed with the whole Q&A panel, even the Lib guy.  Keenerly for PM, the way she presented herself!  F'n impressive.

[Peter 4,221]

2 hours ago, goughy said:

Sadly, I agree with you.  Can't wait to be proven wrong!

Watch it.  And the Q&A episode!  

The guy's pure filth!  And the poor mum on Q&A whose kids were obviously abused at Ballarat in the 90's, when she said the first reports of abuse occurred in '54!  The only consolation is if everything about religion and god is true, there will be a special place in hell for them.  I hope it's like on Lucifer!  

I was fairly impressed with the whole Q&A panel, even the Lib guy.  Keenerly for PM, the way she presented herself!  F'n impressive.

Catholics just say 3 Hail Marys and all is forgiven. 

[goughy 3,726]

You know, that's exactly what I thought too!  But I saw something that part of the act of contrition is that you must have intent to do better!  You can't ask for absolution for something if you intend to just go out and do it again.  Sure, a priest may absolve you thinking you won't commit again, but it's meaningless in the eyes of god if you are.

[Mike Del 487]

9 hours ago, goughy said:

  The only consolation is if everything about religion and god is true, there will be a special place in hell for them.  I hope it's like on Lucifer!  

 

Deathbed confession to a priest and all is forgiven 

[trinube 1,777]

Bugger forgiveness, I'd like to see him booted from the church and refused a Catholic funeral.

[Peter 4,221]

12 minutes ago, trinube said:

Bugger forgiveness, I'd like to see him booted from the church and refused a Catholic funeral.

Would he care when he’s dead?

[goughy 3,726]

21 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

Deathbed confession to a priest and all is forgiven 

Yes, I was hoping someone wouldn't bring that up!  

My wife and kids are ok as they're not Catholic, so don't know any better.  But I was brought up Catholic and baptised, so that deathbed confession is what I need to see them up there.

[fiftyplus 94]

I think he’ll get a medical certificate that prevents him going to gaol and he’ll spend the rest of his days in a Catholic owned aged care facility, paid for by a government pension because priests, nuns, etc. don’t earn a wage and therefore have no superannuation.

[trinube 1,777]

45 minutes ago, Peter said:

Would he care when he’s dead?

Oh they'd need to tell him when they kick him out. Exorcise him from the church totally. If he believes everything he preaches, that would be the worst possible punishment.

Edited March 6, 2019 by trinube

[BarryBevan 1,545]

Outlaw the organisation 

[Cottoneyes 1,415]

7 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Outlaw the organisation 

Nah, just make every religion accountable by law and pay their fair share of tax (including FBT for their leaders)

Catholics. Protestants, Lutherans, Scientologists. Vegans, Greenies, Carlton Football Club, Cross Fitters, Kardashians - the frigging lot of them

[trinube 1,777]

21 minutes ago, Cottoneyes said:

Nah, just make every religion accountable by law and pay their fair share of tax (including FBT for their leaders)

Beat me to it. I still don't understand how they get tax free/tax deductions on their gold goblets and silken robes

[pieman 1,186]

1 hour ago, trinube said:

Beat me to it. I still don't understand how they get tax free/tax deductions on their gold goblets and silken robes

Every time I get asked at work how to solve the revenue crisis I say get rid of religouss tax free status.. even if it had some sort of threshold it'd be worth it for land tax alone..

[goughy 3,726]

10 hours ago, trinube said:

Beat me to it. I still don't understand how they get tax free/tax deductions on their gold goblets and silken robes

Because it wasn't really that long ago that the church was more important than the state, more important than the Queen.  No one seems to have the guts yet to do something about it.

On a separate point, is love to know what wealth and secrets are hidden in the Vatican!

[roxii 7,187]

Maybe Labor should double down on the recent abortion announcement and say they will tax the churches too.  Probably wont alienate any more people. 

Would get my vote. 

 

And Goughy apparently some of the secrets look set to be revealed 

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium.MAGAZINE-the-truth-about-hitler-s-pope-shoah-era-archive-may-answer-75-year-old-question-1.6997422

[fiftyplus 94]

18 minutes ago, roxii said:

Maybe Labor should double down on the recent abortion announcement and say they will tax the churches too.  Probably wont alienate any more people. 

Would get my vote.

Unfortunately, I think any government that would try and get the churches to pay taxes and rates would be political suicide. Don’t they come under the so called, non profit organisation  banner?

Is it just Australia where they get away with it, or is it world wide?

[Turts 2,975]

1 hour ago, goughy said:

On a separate point, is love to know what wealth and secrets are hidden in the Vatican!

Just the bits you can see are incredible! 

[Merv 362]

Atteded a catholic funeral today and would of described it as uncomfortable.  More people than normal totally disinterested in the service.  Mum was a strict catholic and doubt she would have paticipated much either.