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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

Perhaps Trump is more than a little curious about how it has been reported by the same people who previously ridiculed the idea that a vaccine could be developed as fast as it has

As I've said before, if Trump had found a cure for cancer people would complain about him putting oncologists out of work

 

As I've said before, if Trump had found a cure for cancer people would complain about him putting oncologists out of work

But he didn't more Iron Jim What Boutism, living in a world of what if to excuse what he did

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A few posts of the last 24hrs have been deleted. I don't have time to go over the previous 96 pages.  If it's not adding value to the thread, discussing politics in a respectful manner towards th

If the last few months have taught me anything it’s that when you peel back the thin veneer the US is a mighty screwed up place on oh so many fronts.   

The sandbox is for non Tri related topics.  It’s not a place for people to carry on like idiots. 

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3 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

But he didn't more Iron Jim What Boutism, living in a world of what if to excuse what he did

I'm crediting him for what he was responsible for 

You're blaming him for what he was not responsible for 

Whatever helps you justify your hatred though 

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2 minutes ago, roxii said:

If Trump found the cure for cancer I reckon he’d try to do exactly what Mylan did with epipen. 

Uh oh 

That sounds like a what if to me...

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4 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

I'm crediting him for what he was responsible for 

You're blaming him for what he was not responsible for 

Whatever helps you justify your hatred though 

No you didn't, you said:

As I've said before, if Trump had found a cure for cancer people would complain about him putting oncologists out of work

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37 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

No you didn't, you said:

As I've said before, if Trump had found a cure for cancer people would complain about him putting oncologists out of work

What you said was I'm trying to excuse what he did

What is this presumably nefarious 'thing' that I'm trying to excuse? 

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4 hours ago, roxii said:

Gotta love how Trump is pissed that the vaccine is being updated to 95% effective just days after the election, I’m sure if he had won he’d be holding press conferences claiming he was responsible for its speed and effectiveness. 
Poor Don. 
couple that with Rudy’s latest tv appearance and the wheels are really falling off. 

Yeh his hair dye running down his face during his press conference was almost as embarrassing as his press conference. 

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2 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

We'll accept 2020 when you guys accept 2016

Geez, you RWNJs sure know how to hold a grudge. Next you’ll be insisting that I accept the March 1933 federal German elections.

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1 hour ago, Slowman said:

Easy!... so now that you've accepted 2020, what will you do? Join the republican movement in Australia? :lol:

I'll look forward to Pelosi relinquishing the gavel in 2022, and a Republican winning back the white house in 2024

The Republican senate should make sure that Biden doesn't f*ck things up too much in the meantime 

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1 hour ago, Andrew #1 said:

Geez, you RWNJs sure know how to hold a grudge. Next you’ll be insisting that I accept the March 1933 federal German elections.

lol

So much unity

So much healing...

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19 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

What you said was I'm trying to excuse what he did

What is this presumably nefarious 'thing' that I'm trying to excuse? 

You do not debate facts. You create strawmen, if Trump, cured cancer, people would still have a go at him.

Trump didn't cure cancer, he did a whole bunch of other things and that is why people have a go at him. Those are the things you are excusing distracting avoiding by inventing a thing he didn't do and saying you guys would pile in on him anyway.

 

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1 hour ago, BarryBevan said:

You do not debate facts. You create strawmen, if Trump, cured cancer, people would still have a go at him.

Trump didn't cure cancer, he did a whole bunch of other things and that is why people have a go at him. Those are the things you are excusing distracting avoiding by inventing a thing he didn't do and saying you guys would pile in on him anyway.

 

According to the bloke who is using non-specific grievances to avoid giving credit where it's due

If you don't want to debate the issues, you're just having a whinge 

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9 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

According to the bloke who is using non-specific grievances to avoid giving credit where it's due

If you don't want to debate the issues, you're just having a whinge 

Oh dear, you are reaching new lows.

Edited by BarryBevan
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Baz: 'Jimbo is trying to excuse what Trump did'

Jimbo: 'What did he do?'

Baz: 'You don't debate facts'

Jimbo: 'You haven't raised any facts'

Baz: 'You are reaching new lows...'

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59 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Baz: 'Jimbo is trying to excuse what Trump did'

Jimbo: 'What did he do?'

Baz: 'You don't debate facts'

Jimbo: 'You haven't raised any facts'

Baz: 'You are reaching new lows...'

It’s about you not Trump. The record of what Trump has done and not done is out there in the public domain.

he has not cured cancer so rather than “you” talk about things he’s not done to debate, could you just talk about what he has done.

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10 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

I’ll make it easy. Did he cure cancer

No

I'll make it even easier for you - did I claim he cured cancer?

As for what he's done, where would you like to start?  Record employment among minorities?  Real criminal justice reform?  Tax cuts leading to a pre-covid boom?  The defeat of ISIS?  Peace breaking out in the Middle East?

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Like him or loath him, Trumps presidency will probably never be remembered for what he did or didn't achieve during his time in office.  Much like Nixons presidency is generally only remembered for the Watergate scandal and it ultimate outcome,  its likely Trumps will be remembered for the wild (and possible delusional) late night tweets and (so far) unproven accusations of fraud of the last 12 months.  

 

 

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And just something that a medical friend of mine pointed out...

The symptoms of dementia are:

Quote
People may experience:
Cognitive: mental decline, confusion in the evening hours, disorientation, inability to speak or understand language, making things up, mental confusion, or inability to recognise common things
Behavioural: irritability, personality changes, restlessness, lack of restraint, or wandering and getting lost
Mood: anxiety, loneliness, mood swings, or nervousness
Psychological: depression, hallucination, or paranoia
Muscular: inability to combine muscle movements or unsteady walking
Also common: memory loss, falling, jumbled speech, or sleep disorder

Whether he has it or not is anybodies guess.  If he does its unlikely we'll find out about it, given Trump tends not to announce anything that doesn't make him look good.

It was just an interesting (but very distant) observation from somebody who deals with this on a regular basis.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, -- AJ -- said:

And just something that a medical friend of mine pointed out...

The symptoms of dementia are:

Whether he has it or not is anybodies guess.  If he does its unlikely we'll find out about it, given Trump tends not to announce anything that doesn't make him look good.

It was just an interesting (but very distant) observation from somebody who deals with this on a regular basis.

 

 

What does your friend make of the many examples of Joe Biden exhibiting the listed behaviours? 

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

I wonder if trump will leave the White House or be thrown out?

 

5FE096FA-34BE-4D7B-A84A-448F1198128D.jpeg

Jim, your view?

or on this:

Trump was required to agree to 19 admissions, acknowledging his personal misuse of funds at the Trump Foundation, and agreed to restrictions on future charitable service and ongoing reporting to the Office of the Attorney General, in the event he creates a new charity. The settlement also included mandatory training requirements for Donald Trump Jr., Ivanka Trump, and Eric Trump, which the three children have already undergone. Finally, the settlement required the Trump Foundation to shutter its doors last December and dissolve under court supervision.

 

And more 

A US District Court judge Saturday dismissed a lawsuit by the Trump campaign trying to invalidate millions of Pennsylvania mail-in votes.

"Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated," US District Court Judge Matthew Brann wrote Saturday.

Brann went on to admonish the Trump campaign lawyers for not presenting factual proof for seeking to invalidate so many votes in the key battleground state.

Edited by BarryBevan
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55 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Jim, your view?

or on this:

Trump was required to agree to 19 admissions, acknowledging his personal misuse of funds at the Trump Foundation, and agreed to restrictions on future charitable service and ongoing reporting to the Office of the Attorney General, in the event he creates a new charity. The settlement also included mandatory training requirements for Donald Trump Jr., Ivanka Trump, and Eric Trump, which the three children have already undergone. Finally, the settlement required the Trump Foundation to shutter its doors last December and dissolve under court supervision.

 

And more 

A US District Court judge Saturday dismissed a lawsuit by the Trump campaign trying to invalidate millions of Pennsylvania mail-in votes.

"Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated," US District Court Judge Matthew Brann wrote Saturday.

Brann went on to admonish the Trump campaign lawyers for not presenting factual proof for seeking to invalidate so many votes in the key battleground state.

Well if he's lost a case in Pennsylvania, surely that means he'll lose all of them

As for the Trump Foundation, its a very good thing that it's been shut down.  I mean, if he's supporting charitable causes it makes it harder for people like you to hate him

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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

What does your friend make of the many examples of Joe Biden exhibiting the listed behaviours? 

 

Oddly enough, Biden wasn't mentioned.  But considering the catalyst of the discussion was the Victorian lockdown, border closures and subsequent flow on effects to other states,

  • which led to "odd" traits of leadership, 
  • which led in a roundabout way to dictators, 
  • which inevitably led via Kim Jong-un to Hitler (who had Parkinsons and basically lost all grasp of reality by the end), 
  • and ended up at modern day Trump and his recent activities..

its not entirely surprising that Biden wasn't mentioned.

The guess (and realistically thats all it is) about Trump having dementia was raised as a possible (but not the only) reason for the odd  behaviour we're seeing from him.  Realistically, based on the number of accusations of electoral fraud (lots) and amount of admissible evidence provided by his legal team to support their claims of electoral fraud (none at this stage),  another possibility (amongst others) could be that he's just being a complete ar**hole. 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

Well if he's lost a case in Pennsylvania, surely that means he'll lose all of them

As for the Trump Foundation, its a very good thing that it's been shut down.  I mean, if he's supporting charitable causes it makes it harder for people like you to hate him


 

LOL here’s some of the stuff straight from court hearings happening over the last few days... 

Quote

 

But in a hearing on Nov. 12, Kory Langhofer, a lawyer for the Trump campaign, conceded that the complaint was not based on evidence of voter fraud but rather on a “limited number of cases” of “good-faith errors” in the count.

“This is not a fraud case,” Mr. Langhofer said. “We are not alleging fraud. We are not saying anyone is trying to steal the election.”

Under questioning, witnesses repeatedly stated that they did not have any reason to believe that their ballots or those of other voters were not counted.

Later in the hearing, Daniel Arellano, the Arizona Democratic Party’s counsel, directed questions to Zack Alcyone, one of the witnesses, who admitted that he was a business partner of Mr. Langhofer’s.

Asked if he was being paid to testify in the case, Mr. Alcyone said he was uncertain.

“Um, not that I know of, I haven’t discussed it,” he said.

“But you may be?” Mr. Arellano asked.

“It’s possible, I guess, I’m not sure,” Mr. Alcyone said.

 

And this one...

 

Quote

THE COURT: In your petition, which is right before me — and I read it several times — you don’t claim that any electors or the Board of the County were guilty of fraud, correct? That’s correct?
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Your honor, accusing people of fraud is a pretty big step. And it is rare that I call somebody a liar, and I am not calling the board of the D.N.C. or anybody else involved in this a liar. Everybody is coming to this with good faith. The D.N.C. is coming with good faith. We’re all just trying to get an election done. We think these were a mistake, but we think they are a fatal mistake, and these ballots ought not be counted.
THE COURT: I understand. I am asking you a specific question, and I am looking for a specific answer. Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?
MR. GOLDSTEIN: To my knowledge at present, no.
THE COURT: Are you claiming that there is any undue or improper influence upon the elector with respect to these 592 ballots?
MR. GOLDSTEIN: To my knowledge at present, no.

 

Quote

 

"In this action, the Trump Campaign and the Individual Plaintiffs
(collectively, the “Plaintiffs”) seek to discard millions of votes legally cast by
Pennsylvanians from all corners – from Greene County to Pike County, and everywhere in between.

Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated.
One might expect that when
seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption , such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens. 

That has not happened.

Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. 

In the United States of America, this
cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. 

Our people, laws, and institutions demand more.

At bottom, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their burden to state a claim upon which
relief may be granted. Therefore, I grant Defendants’ motions and dismiss Plaintiffs’ action with prejudice.

 


 

 

 

Edited by CharlieB1981
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32 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Well if he's lost a case in Pennsylvania, surely that means he'll lose all of them

As for the Trump Foundation, its a very good thing that it's been shut down.  I mean, if he's supporting charitable causes it makes it harder for people like you to hate him

Your post demonstrates you seek to argue rather than discuss facts. You ignored the facts and finding to make it a personal attack. Done with this thread, back to tri threads.

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2 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

Your post demonstrates you seek to argue rather than discuss facts. You ignored the facts and finding to make it a personal attack. Done with this thread, back to tri threads.

This is BS.  I've said this before (and I know it doesn't fit the ' party of tolerance's agenda') but I have never seen IJ personally attack anyone on here.  That is  the preserve of others.

I don't agree with much of what IJ says, his reasoning is flawed in many of his points IMO but his manners aren't.  He gets asked questions and fields a barrage of abuse from those that seem to only have one mission when they wake up and that's to bait on here.

It's a shame you can't answer his questions in the same way he answers yours.  This thread died down about a week ago and Barry, it was you that posted something along the lines of '  IJ, what's your latest thoughts on Trump'.

You seem intent on looking for a fight. IJ asked you a straight question that seemed reasonable to me and now you claim your being picked on and running off.

C'mon Baz, you're better than that. We should all be better than that. Holding a grudge isn't exclusive to the left or right, it's just something an individual chooses to do.

 

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8 minutes ago, FatPom said:

This is BS.  I've said this before (and I know it doesn't fit the ' party of tolerance's agenda') but I have never seen IJ personally attack anyone on here.  That is  the preserve of others.

I don't agree with much of what IJ says, his reasoning is flawed in many of his points IMO but his manners aren't.  He gets asked questions and fields a barrage of abuse from those that seem to only have one mission when they wake up and that's to bait on here.

It's a shame you can't answer his questions in the same way he answers yours.  This thread died down about a week ago and Barry, it was you that posted something along the lines of '  IJ, what's your latest thoughts on Trump'.

You seem intent on looking for a fight. IJ asked you a straight question that seemed reasonable to me and now you claim your being picked on and running off.

C'mon Baz, you're better than that. We should all be better than that. Holding a grudge isn't exclusive to the left or right, it's just something an individual chooses to do.

 

I do not agree, with you at all. He never answers a question except to put up strawmen and alternate facts.

Even given actual findings against Trump, he wont' address the actual finding. I'm not claiming to be picked on just not going to waste my time anymore.

 

Edited by BarryBevan
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1 minute ago, BarryBevan said:

I do not agree, with you at all. He never answers a question except to put up strawmen and alternate facts.

Even given actual findings against Trump, he wont' address the actual finding. I'm not claiming to be picked on just not going to waste my time anymore.

 

That's your right but I still don't see any posts where he called anyone a prick or a wanker or questioned anybody individual's intelligence. You claimed he was getting personal, I don't see that at all in his posts.

What on earth did you expect the outcome to be, IJ suddenly says that he's been wrong all along, that's about as likely as your side wearing a MAGA hat.  You wasted your time when you expected anything else.

Politics is so tribal now, it's like shouting into an empty vessel.

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2 minutes ago, FatPom said:

That's your right but I still don't see any posts where he called anyone a prick or a wanker or questioned anybody individual's intelligence. You claimed he was getting personal, I don't see that at all in his posts.

What on earth did you expect the outcome to be, IJ suddenly says that he's been wrong all along, that's about as likely as your side wearing a MAGA hat.  You wasted your time when you expected anything else.

Politics is so tribal now, it's like shouting into an empty vessel.

I agree with you on the latter bits, and will agree to differ. I don't expect him to change and suddenly go yes dems rule, but when presented with actual evidence and findings from court cases, to accept them.

The worst thing in politics is getting people to defend things they did not actually say to distract from the actual issue at hand, that is a very effective tactic for pollies all ilks.

I like you and don't want to get into a stoush with you over this, especially when we have a euro soccer draw to play next year. but:

I mean, if he's supporting charitable causes it makes it harder for people like you to hate him" Iron JimJ

Thats's a response to a court finding Trump to have misused charitable funds for his own benefit, 19 times and a court direction to restrict his charitable work, along with training for his children. Instead of discussing the facts, the response was ignore them and state that it makes it easier for people like me to hate Trump.

That's not really dealing with the issue, attacking the man and avoiding the actual issue.

But as you point out, its not going to change no matter how many times we play this game and yes I am was resurrecting this thread as I am wondering at what point will people actually change  their view or are they living on QANON

 

 

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2 hours ago, CharlieB1981 said:


 

LOL here’s some of the stuff straight from court hearings happening over the last few days... 

And this one...

And?

Like it or not, Trump is just as entitled to his day in court as Al Gore was in 2000

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17 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

And?

Like it or not, Trump is just as entitled to his day in court as Al Gore was in 2000

Except that he's more than likely going to be on the golf course.  Didn't he bait Obama for doing that?  Would be interesting to see a like for like comparison although Obama was around for the maximum term of 8 yrs and Trump got terminated after 4 so we'd need to take that into account.  I'll hazard a guess that Trump will actually win the golf course playing record.

Trump's game continues to be to try and get it to the supreme court and he needs to go through a series of failures to get there which is why the legal arguments are so poor and devoid of any detail.  He will be really pi$$ed if 'his' supreme court then knocks him back!

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One thing I've noticed during Trump's reign is the reluctance of the opposition to give credit to anything Trump has achieved.

I am anti-Trump, but he has had numerous wins during the last 4 years.  By not acknowledging this, you simply play into the hands of people like Iron Jimbo.

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51 minutes ago, Rob said:

One thing I've noticed during Trump's reign is the reluctance of the opposition to give credit to anything Trump has achieved.

I am anti-Trump, but he has had numerous wins during the last 4 years.  By not acknowledging this, you simply play into the hands of people like Iron Jimbo.

It was the same when Obama was president.  The republicans never said anything when he did good things as well. 
 

50 examples.  I never read past 5. But...  https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/marchapril-2012/obamas-top-50-accomplishments/

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45 minutes ago, Rob said:

One thing I've noticed during Trump's reign is the reluctance of the opposition to give credit to anything Trump has achieved.

I am anti-Trump, but he has had numerous wins during the last 4 years.  By not acknowledging this, you simply play into the hands of people like Iron Jimbo.

That's just absolutism at work.  The same principle that assures people that they're right about everything, so anyone who disagrees is clearly an idiot

Since Trump is Hitler v2.0, not only is he incapable of doing anything good, if he did manage to get something right it was either a fluke or done with nefarious intent

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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

That's just absolutism at work.  The same principle that assures people that they're right about everything, so anyone who disagrees is clearly an idiot

Since Trump is Hitler v2.0, not only is he incapable of doing anything good, if he did manage to get something right it was either a fluke or done with nefarious intent

You can’t compare hitler to trump. 
 

hitler killed 16 million 

Trump has only killed 250,000 people. 
 

so far 

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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

Since Trump is Hitler v2.0.

Not yet but not far.

Few people remember that Hitler came to power legally and then just used that power to annoint himself fuhrer.  Its well recorded what happened in the 12 years after that.

Right now its still entirely feasible that the Electoral College can ignore the will of the voters and appoint Trump to a 2nd term.   Its never happened before and one can only guess what may happen as a result.

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No stoush from me mate. I just wish all sides could listen without attacking.

We are all here because of multisport and this part of the site is should by a by product but unfortunately, it seems where this is all the energy is focussed now.

Anyway, I'll leave yo folks to it.

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8 hours ago, -- AJ -- said:

Not yet but not far.

Few people remember that Hitler came to power legally and then just used that power to annoint himself fuhrer.  Its well recorded what happened in the 12 years after that.

Right now its still entirely feasible that the Electoral College can ignore the will of the voters and appoint Trump to a 2nd term.   Its never happened before and one can only guess what may happen as a result.

You make a good point, but probably not the point you intended 

It's true that history reminds us that the worst regimes were predicated on an increase in the size and reach of government.  Pre-revolution Russia, inter-war Germany and pre-Mao China are but three examples 

Only one party is proposing to overhaul two of the three branches of the United States government to increase their power and make it virtually impossible for them to lose elections.  And it ain't the Republicans 

Edited by IronJimbo
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