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The sandbox is for non Tri related topics.  It’s not a place for people to carry on like idiots. 

A few posts of the last 24hrs have been deleted. I don't have time to go over the previous 96 pages.  If it's not adding value to the thread, discussing politics in a respectful manner towards th

If the last few months have taught me anything it’s that when you peel back the thin veneer the US is a mighty screwed up place on oh so many fronts.   

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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence 

Get a grip mate.

I was careful to avoid getting into the whole debate as to who caused various outbursts of urban violence that America has been witnessing over the past months: who did what to whom first, is not the point I made. 
 

In fact my post started by crediting you with an important point: many middle class urbanites- registered independents and moderate democrats alike are apalled by the more extreme actions of the radical left fringe who have attached themselves to BLM and other protests.

The point you seem to take umbrage with is this, and I quote myself:

The bad news for Trump is, that as much as they don’t like the left wing radical fringe, they are simply repulsed by the radical right wing militias, armed to the teeth, invading their suburbs looking for trouble and in many cases finding it.”

Since about May, the news, and any simple internet search is replete with numerous examples of what I’m talking about. Whether they are simply exercising their rights, just like BLM, or whether they are actually causing the violence first, is not the the point I’m making. Rather, that the suburbanites that are worried about BLM protests getting out of hand are appalled by folk coming from outside their neighbourhoods, in military tactical gear and armed with assault rifles. It is intimatidry, frightful behaviour, even if they don’t start shooting.
 

The first example we saw of this was actually before Floyd George’s murder: pick up trucks full of militias invading the capital in Wisconsin demanding an end to the covid19 lockdown, targeting and harassing health workers, emergency service workers and public servants in the state Capitol. Having a hundred thugs in the public galleries yelling out threats to state senators going about their business in the chamber, waving AR15s and AK47s was simply terrifying.
 

Since then, every large BLM rally seems to be met by large groups of heavily armed militias or the boogaloos, sometimes even organised white nationalist organisations - most decked out in combat tactical gear and brandishing assault rifles. google it. It’s everywhere. Right or wrong, according to the US constitution. It doesn’t matter. My point is that Trump’s messaging about ‘dangerous left wing radicals’ and ‘BLM - Antifa’ is completely undone amongst his target audience. Because moderate independents and democrats in the suburbs see the militias-boogaloos-white nationalists on theIr streets.

Thats’ before one considers who is actually driving the worst of the violence:  ‘left wing radicals’ as Trump would have it, or individuals in the militias, as appears on balance to be mostly the case. 

Edited by Andrew #1
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Sooooo in other words armed violent BLM protesters who have bashed, killed intimidated and burnt cities largely unabated for months on end are 'mostly peaceful' protesters. 

Armed white people who are protecting people and buildings against BLM, forced to do the work of police who can't, are terrifying, right wing, white extremists. 

I think you will find more and more people would be preferring a show of force by white people with guns and still have their buildings, homes and safety intact.. 

BLM has nothing to do with race. 99% of them aren't even black, they are white anarchists. 

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9 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

Get a grip mate.

 

Um...

On one side, you have over 100 straight days of violence, looting and murder in Portland and elsewhere causing billions in damage (including a guy being shot straight in the face on the presumption that he is a Trump supporter)

And on the other hand you have what you call 'radical militias' who have caused zero damage

Perhaps you should get a grip and broaden your horizons past MSNBC

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I’m reminded of why I no longer contribute to the politics thread. 
 

The attitudes of the demographics that Republicans are targeting with their ‘BLM. Boo’ campaign haven’t changed. Quantive polling has established that. Qualitative surveys and focus group research has underlined that finding as well. The middle class folk in the Burbs blame outsiders. Not just BLM hotheads, but especially the militias for stoking the violence and most significantly Trump for inciting them. 

our resident Trumpy fans would have a point - and a potent one at that - if the white nationalists, ‘patriot’ militias, anti government boogaloos hadn’t turned up. But they did and the political campaign has been either neutralised or has blown up in Trump’s face. 
 

attitudes haven’t changed that much in a polarised America. They haven’t for years. The question of who turns up to vote however remains to be answered. BLM - right or wrong - simply agitates folk who have already made up their minds. There isn’t a single ‘new’ vote in it for Trump. However, having white nationalists, boogaloos and actual Nazis marching through suburban streets is far far more likely to motivate middle class folk to actually vote for Biden than anything so far. 

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9 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

I’m reminded of why I no longer contribute to the politics thread. 
 

The attitudes of the demographics that Republicans are targeting with their ‘BLM. Boo’ campaign haven’t changed. Quantive polling has established that. Qualitative surveys and focus group research has underlined that finding as well. The middle class folk in the Burbs blame outsiders. Not just BLM hotheads, but especially the militias for stoking the violence and most significantly Trump for inciting them. 

our resident Trumpy fans would have a point - and a potent one at that - if the white nationalists, ‘patriot’ militias, anti government boogaloos hadn’t turned up. But they did and the political campaign has been either neutralised or has blown up in Trump’s face. 
 

attitudes haven’t changed that much in a polarised America. They haven’t for years. The question of who turns up to vote however remains to be answered. BLM - right or wrong - simply agitates folk who have already made up their minds. There isn’t a single ‘new’ vote in it for Trump. However, having white nationalists, boogaloos and actual Nazis marching through suburban streets is far far more likely to motivate middle class folk to actually vote for Biden than anything so far. 

Sorry, but you've either been successfully gaslit by Rachel Maddow or you're obviously shit-posting

The spolit white kids rioting under the guise of black lives are the ones marching through the suburbs telling people to get out of their homes. And they are being enabled by inadequate policing under Democratic mayors and governors who refuse federal assistance 

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Iron Jimbo has to have ‘the last word’. It’s tiresome and doesn't add to the debate.

Mate: I avoid the echo chambers of MSNBC and the Washpost as much as I avoid FoxNews and Breitbart. I take nearly all my news these days by going to quality and non partisan psephology sites like PollBludger, Ken Bonham’s blog, RCP, 538 and then linking through to data rich analysis and articles that they post links to. I have personally also done county by county, and precinct by precinct analayse of the voting returns in the 7 key states for the past 3 presidential elections and the 2018 mid terms. 

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19 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

The spolit white kids rioting under the guise of black lives are the ones marching through the suburbs telling people to get out of their homes. And they are being enabled by inadequate policing under Democratic mayors and governors who refuse federal assistance 

That’s the republicvnt message. But its not cutting through. Outside your echo chamber. I’ve pointed out the reasons for that above. 

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23 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

That’s the republicvnt message. But its not cutting through. Outside your echo chamber. I’ve pointed out the reasons for that above. 

We'll see

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57 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

Iron Jimbo has to have ‘the last word’. It’s tiresome and doesn't add to the debate.

Mate: I avoid the echo chambers of MSNBC and the Washpost as much as I avoid FoxNews and Breitbart. I take nearly all my news these days by going to quality and non partisan psephology sites like PollBludger, Ken Bonham’s blog, RCP, 538 and then linking through to data rich analysis and articles that they post links to. I have personally also done county by county, and precinct by precinct analayse of the voting returns in the 7 key states for the past 3 presidential elections and the 2018 mid terms. 

Complains of someone trying to have the last word...and then tries to have the last word...

 

"I have personally also done county by county, and precinct by precinct analayse of the voting returns in the 7 key states for the past 3 presidential elections and the 2018 mid terms."

If this is true you have waaaaay to much time on your hands....

 

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29 minutes ago, more said:

Complains of someone trying to have the last word...and then tries to have the last word...

And also complains about things that are 'tiresome and don't add much to the debate' before referring to 'republicvnts'

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Taking the politics out of it:

In July, the number of shootings in New York City skyrocketed 177 percent over the same period last year, and there was a 59 percent rise in murders. In August, city shootings soared 165 percent, while murders jumped about 50 percent.

That's not a great set of numbers, no blame, just observation.

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14 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Taking the politics out of it:

In July, the number of shootings in New York City skyrocketed 177 percent over the same period last year, and there was a 59 percent rise in murders. In August, city shootings soared 165 percent, while murders jumped about 50 percent.

That's not a great set of numbers, no blame, just observation.

See, here's the thing.  It's difficult to take the politics out of that when it's is largely the result of poor decisions made by politicians

Which also resulted in the largest NYPD union endorsing Trump...

 

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5 minutes ago, roxii said:

Did anyone hear the audio of Trumps "I like women better than men" speech from yesterday talking about replacing the deceased judge.

Man he is a creepy dude. 

What's wrong with liking women better than men?

I am also a creepy dude though, so there's that...

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2 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

What's wrong with liking women better than men?

I am also a creepy dude though, so there's that...

He's next level creepy though. Have you listened to it?  

Its was a bit like an over enthusiastic scout master saying how much he really, really likes the younger boys.  :lol: 

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8 minutes ago, roxii said:

He's next level creepy though. Have you listened to it?  

Its was a bit like an over enthusiastic scout master saying how much he really, really likes the younger boys.  :lol: 

Talking of next level creepy..

 

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35 minutes ago, roxii said:

Did anyone hear the audio of Trumps "I like women better than men" speech from yesterday talking about replacing the deceased judge.

Man he is a creepy dude. 

Was that at his rally? I watched most of that. I’m starting to think he’s having a few cognitive issues. He was struggling to read the teleprompter several times, miss pronouncing a lot of words (including “Trump”) and tapering off to nothing. I’ve never seen him this bad, perhaps it’s the workload nearing the election.

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11 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

Was that at his rally? I watched most of that. I’m starting to think he’s having a few cognitive issues. He was struggling to read the teleprompter several times, miss pronouncing a lot of words (including “Trump”) and tapering off to nothing. I’ve never seen him this bad, perhaps it’s the workload nearing the election.

Speaking of teleprompters, here's Biden having a Ron Burgundy moment reading out 'end quote' from his teleprompter...you cant make this stuff up!!! Oh my lord...

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Peter said:

The simple fact is trump is a liar. 

biden is an example of someone with dementia. 

both options are bad but I think trump is the least worse of the 2. 

Not disagreeing with your comment because on the surface it looks right.  Biden doesn't look to be all there, all the time.  However I do find it hard to believe that any party would nominate a person with a know neurological disease.  Surely candidates have to take a medical before assuming the highest office in the land.

But I  have a total distrust of pathological liars.  Which is why I distrust the most politicians.

 

So if if comes down to a choice between a known pathological liar and a suspected liar, I choose the suspected liar.

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34 minutes ago, -- AJ -- said:

Not disagreeing with your comment because on the surface it looks right.  Biden doesn't look to be all there, all the time.  However I do find it hard to believe that any party would nominate a person with a know neurological disease.  Surely candidates have to take a medical before assuming the highest office in the land.

But I  have a total distrust of pathological liars.  Which is why I distrust the most politicians.

 

So if if comes down to a choice between a known pathological liar and a suspected liar, I choose the suspected liar.

Is this a lie, or yet another example of someone who is mentally unfit to run for presidency? 

"Joe Biden said during a campaign speech in Philadelphia that about 200 million people have died of the coronavirus in the US — or nearly two-thirds of the population — though the number is just shy of 200,000."

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/09/21/biden-mistakenly-says-millions-have-died-from-covid-19-in-us/amp

As I've said before it's disgusting what they are doing to this poor guy. It really is abuse. 

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20 minutes ago, more said:

Is this a lie, or yet another example of someone who is mentally unfit to run for presidency? 

"Joe Biden said during a campaign speech in Philadelphia that about 200 million people have died of the coronavirus in the US — or nearly two-thirds of the population — though the number is just shy of 200,000."

Did you consider that the poor bloke might be as blind as a bat and the font on the teleprompter is too small?

Wouldn't be the only one to make that mistake.  He's just got the highest profile.

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11 minutes ago, -- AJ -- said:

Did you consider that the poor bloke might be as blind as a bat and the font on the teleprompter is too small?

Wouldn't be the only one to make that mistake.  He's just got the highest profile.

lol, seriously, you are this biased?

Here's another Biden quote for you that cant be blamed on a teleprompter....

"In his latest blunder, self-proclaimed “gaffe machine” Joe Biden claimed “millions” of Americans have died of the coronavirus and 85,000 jobs have been lost as a result of the pandemic, according to a report.

"This is not a moment for excuses or deflections or blame game. We’re — we’re in the middle of a pandemic that has cost us more than 85,000 jobs as of today,” the presumptive Democratic nominee said during a virtual roundtable with three governors, according to Real Clear Politics.

“Lives of millions of people. Millions of people. Millions of jobs,” he said, possibly realizing his faux pas about the number of jobs after flipping the numbers."

https://nypost.com/2020/05/15/joe-biden-mixes-up-number-of-jobs-lost-coronavirus-deaths/

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1 hour ago, -- AJ -- said:

Not disagreeing with your comment because on the surface it looks right.  Biden doesn't look to be all there, all the time.  However I do find it hard to believe that any party would nominate a person with a know neurological disease.  Surely candidates have to take a medical before assuming the highest office in the land.

But I  have a total distrust of pathological liars.  Which is why I distrust the most politicians.

 

So if if comes down to a choice between a known pathological liar and a suspected liar, I choose the suspected liar.

I also think there's a big difference between someone who knowingly lies, and someone who has a growing deficiency and honestly doesn't know what they've said isnt correct.

Neither are great as President! But deliberately deceiving is a step above, to me. Support staff really make the decisions and can advise someone ill-equipped.  But there's not correcting someone who is deliberately lying. 

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Do I think Biden is a better choice for pres over Trump: yes.  Do I think Biden is a great choice for pres; nope.  It feels a bit like last time to me; the only person Trump could beat was Hilary, and the only person Hilary could beat was Trump.  So put up the two worst options and let them slug it out!

Does my opinion matter; nope.

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13 minutes ago, Turts said:

I also think there's a big difference between someone who knowingly lies, and someone who has a growing deficiency and honestly doesn't know what they've said isnt correct.

Neither are great as President! But deliberately deceiving is a step above, to me. Support staff really make the decisions and can advise someone ill-equipped.  But there's not correcting someone who is deliberately lying. 

Agree, thats why I feel sorry for Biden and think its cruel that the Dems are doing this to him. He is obviously nothing more than a puppet.

That being said all politicians lie, I could reel off a list of Biden lies quite easily.

So the problem is, when the bar is set so low, that the public accepts politicians lying how can you hold it against Trump??

 For example, our illustrious Comrade, Dictator Dan has been caught lying red handed...will the public vote him out, will they make an example of him, will they care...?

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In other news, Nancy Pelosi is threatening to impeach Trump again if he dares to fulfil his obligations under article 2 of the constitution 

Amy Coney Barrett appears to be the frontrunner to replace RBG.  It'll be interesting to see how the Democrats try to destroy a mother of seven

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7 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

In other news, Nancy Pelosi is threatening to impeach Trump again if he dares to fulfil his obligations under article 2 of the constitution 

Amy Coney Barrett appears to be the frontrunner to replace RBG.  It'll be interesting to see how the Democrats try to destroy a mother of seven

At least there won't be any groping allegations to deal with.

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27 minutes ago, Turts said:

I also think there's a big difference between someone who knowingly lies, and someone who has a growing deficiency and honestly doesn't know what they've said isnt correct.

Neither are great as President! But deliberately deceiving is a step above, to me. Support staff really make the decisions and can advise someone ill-equipped.  But there's not correcting someone who is deliberately lying. 

Perhaps more Americans are also starting to see it that way Turts. Today the average betting price for Trump slipped out past $2 for the 1st time in a couple of months and Biden’s price has shortened again.

Biden $1:80 to Trump $2:05 now.   
 

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33 minutes ago, goughy said:

Do I think Biden is a better choice for pres over Trump: yes. 

How so?

Biden's career is older than I am, and his only noteworthy achievement in that time is a crime bill that he's now trying to disown 

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47 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

It'll be interesting to see how the Democrats try to destroy a mother of seven

how so?   Does having kids (the basic premise just being having had unprotected sex) make you by default a good person?  I don't think so. 

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6 minutes ago, Turts said:

how so?   Does having kids (the basic premise just being having had unprotected sex) make you by default a good person?  I don't think so. 

I don't think so either 

I also don't think being nominated by Trump is a valid reason for having your life publicly destroyed 

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1 hour ago, roxii said:

Hell of a choice aint it. 

Between someone who doesn't know he isn't telling the truth and someone who doesn't care he isn't telling the truth.  :huh:

 

I think we can go back to about page 3 and someone said the same thing 4 years ago. 

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50 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

Perhaps more Americans are also starting to see it that way Turts. Today the average betting price for Trump slipped out past $2 for the 1st time in a couple of months and Biden’s price has shortened again.

Biden $1:80 to Trump $2:05 now.   
 

lol I got $4.20 on the Coalition to win the Federal election when good ole Shorten lost the un losable election. Might have to stick some money on Trumpy, $2.05 is looking a lot more enticing!

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1 hour ago, more said:

lol I got $4.20 on the Coalition to win the Federal election when good ole Shorten lost the un losable election. Might have to stick some money on Trumpy, $2.05 is looking a lot more enticing!

Better than what I got on him at. 
 

mind you I still hope trump goes fu all and quits and pence has to fight Biden and loses. 

BAE94696-9A78-4117-9B35-A8BA800C947A.jpeg

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2 hours ago, more said:

lol I got $4.20 on the Coalition to win the Federal election when good ole Shorten lost the un losable election. Might have to stick some money on Trumpy, $2.05 is looking a lot more enticing!

$2:05 is the ave. You should get close to $2:10 if you look hard enough. If you really think Trump will win I’d hold off a little if I were you, his odds are now slowly sliding every day.

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I don't know why I come here, but I do, but today I have learned that the US is totally screwed no matter what they do. I'm not sure that's good for us. 

The world is not so stable these days. 15 years ago who would have imagined. 

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43 minutes ago, dazaau said:

I don't know why I come here, but I do, but today I have learned that the US is totally screwed no matter what they do. I'm not sure that's good for us. 

The world is not so stable these days. 15 years ago who would have imagined. 

What was 'totally screwed' in the U.S. prior to COVID (other than the Democrats carrying on like a bunch of toddlers in need of a time out)? 

I would suggest that the Middle East is looking far more stable than it has for quite some time

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