Stages Powermeter...Reading super low

[MJK 169]

Wondering if anyone has a clue why my new Stages PM is giving BS readings?

I had the boy's at LBS set it up.

Calibrates fine (889/890), works fine...but very low power readings.

I am using it with a brand new Garmin Edge 500.

 

According to a ramp test and TT sims my 'FTP'/1h power is 214w, which is total bs. That is pretty much my Ironman average power, not threshold. I've been tested plenty of times at 280-290w and 70.3 usually costs me 250w based on data from my SRM of some time back.

 

And no, it's not a fitness issue at all.

 

I know it's all 'relative' in the end, but I'd be happier seeing more realistic numbers.

 

I know the Stages reads left leg power only but pretty sure my discrepancy between legs is not that extreme. ;-)

 

Thanks,

 

Matt

 

 

[trek52 474]

The simple reason is that they are shit, I have been through 3 in the last 9 weeks. All new not working correctly 1 with your problem, one with a busted strain gauge and one with a broken case.

Return it and buy a 2nd hand srm.

[lachie94 473]

Everyone that I have seen from my mates have all read low. Some of the pro guys who post their data and have ridiculously low watts for their time are all on stages..

Edited May 10, 2015 by lachie94

[tortoise 859]

Roxii, did the Aus distributor get back to you re busted Stages?

[alexholbrook 156]

I was just about to take the plunge on a second hand stages, but after reading trek52s opinion I think I will steer clear.

[MJK 169]

Lol. Wonderful news, guys. ;-)

I appreciate the input.

Now to decide if I use it based on stupid wattage numbers, or take it back as recommended.

Thanks

[MJK 169]

Lachie, are you able to suggest a particular pro's data which I might be able to locate on the net somewhere?

Cheers,

Matt

[Nath. 405]

Not much help to you but I only know 2 guys with stages....and both have had them back to the shop.

 

If the cadence is reading correct I would assume it is something to do with the train gauge.

Since the power reading is torque x speed and if cadence is right, then the torque reading could be low.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[roxii 7,204]

Roxii, did the Aus distributor get back to you re busted Stages?

No nothing yet but I will bump it again and add this thread to the list.

[hacq1 348]

Where do I start Matt..... I'm onto my 4th stages since last October, this current new one was given to me by the distributor with a brand new 500 edge because they strongly believe that it's a garmin issue re syncing/calibrating and drop out issues. This is absolute BS, I used it twice last week and worked ok but with drop outs then Saturday long ride and no connection AGAIN!! They said they believed that my 500 may have corrupted the stages so they sent me 2 brand new tested units and same shit happens.

 

I'll be demanding a full refund after over 6 months of stuff around, don't make the same mistake piss it off now and as suggested above get a decent PM. I must admit the distributor made some effort to resolve but stages have a lot to answer for.

[The Glycogen Lilo 306]

It's funny with the Stages. So many stories about them not working and dud replacement units etc,

 

The two that we have got seem to work fine? Readings are comparable to our Quarqs and Wahoos (and our old wattbike). I appreciate that they might all be inaccurate but we seem to have been fortunate compared to others.

 

Have Stages said anything about their units? Do they admit there is some sort of systemic problem or do they reckon it is just random error?

[Cat Terrist 62]

Hmmmm. I'd always suspected mine was reading low but it hasnt been a problem since what you want is consistency between rides - that I cant fault Stages on, always consistent readings IF it's working, which is a consistent issue. Yeeeep, not working. Again.

 

I def. want a better power meter than this crap.

[alexholbrook 156]

It's funny with the Stages. So many stories about them not working and dud replacement units etc,

 

The two that we have got seem to work fine? Readings are comparable to our Quarqs and Wahoos (and our old wattbike). I appreciate that they might all be inaccurate but we seem to have been fortunate compared to others.

 

Have Stages said anything about their units? Do they admit there is some sort of systemic problem or do they reckon it is just random error?

The few guys that have stages at home have never had a problem with theirs and from watching various youtube channels including durianrider, he seems to have never had a problem with his.

 

However it is pretty bad for a company to have as many problems as they do and I'm sure they didn't expect it to pan out this way either.

[AVAGO 352]

It's funny with the Stages. So many stories about them not working and dud replacement units etc,

 

The two that we have got seem to work fine? Readings are comparable to our Quarqs and Wahoos (and our old wattbike). I appreciate that they might all be inaccurate but we seem to have been fortunate compared to others.

 

Have Stages said anything about their units? Do they admit there is some sort of systemic problem or do they reckon it is just random error?

mine has been doing what it says on the box, just measuring power.

2 weeks before Port I changed batteries, but when i had the bike serviced the following week, the LBS said that the battery door was broken ( i can be a bit heavy handed sometimes), so they replaced the battery door and updated the firmware.

still pairs with the Garmin 500, still calibrates in moments, still measures my embarrassingly low power output, still consistent with the power reading v computrainer v perceived effort.

it seems a shame that there is such inconsistency with their reliability

[roxii 7,204]

I've just been on the phone to Danny from FE Sports.

 

A couple of things to check:

Make sure firmware is current on the stages and the head unit.

There is a firmware update just released a week or so ago for stages.This should fix the battery drain issue for most. It was to do with a power surge on start up that was draining batteries. This should be fixed.

Make sure you have a recent battery cover. They have got the part supplier to remodel the cover and it's material to make the new one much more durable. Which coupled with extended battery life should mean hopefully no more issues.

Inside the cover should be a year number and an arrow pointing to the month, ideally you should be using a late, late 2014 cover or 2015 cover. These will be the good ones. If not get to your retailer and they should have spares available free of charge.

Lastly ( in MJKs case) maybe try a later head unit such as the 510 if you can as the 500 while still functional is getting on now and may not be the best match for a new stages, also try the head unit in another position if you are using it in aero bars as apparently the pick up may not be ideal depending on where it is situated. (Worth noting these are Garmin issues not Stages issues but still means the system doesn't work)

Faing that it is not unheard of but very very rare to have a hardware issue in which case stages are committed to making sure all customers are 100% happy so MJK if you still can't resolve it they encourage you to give them a call.

[hacq1 348]

Roxii, everyone of the comments you have made above have been performed by myself with the guidance of FE sports. They have kindly given me 3 replacement units, 1 920xt and 1 500 edge and all times ended with failure. I choose not to believe this is a Garmin issue as my testing would suggest otherwise and more likely that Stages still have some serious bugs within their product. It has caused nothing but frustration trying to resolve and has not allowed me to train with power consistently of late therefore I have sent through an email requesting a full refund, I however don't believe everyone has had this amount of drama with their product I just wish I had have moved on earlier.

[tortoise 859]

Thanks Roxii. My Stages was replaced in October 2014. I've just checked the busted battery cover, July 14, so the fix was not a fix at all.

I've just jerry rigged the battery and am upgrading the firmware as I type. I'll gaffer tape the cover back on until I have time to get to the LBS and do a swap.

[roxii 7,204]

Roxii, everyone of the comments you have made above have been performed by myself with the guidance of FE sports. They have kindly given me 3 replacement units, 1 920xt and 1 500 edge and all times ended with failure. I choose not to believe this is a Garmin issue as my testing would suggest otherwise and more likely that Stages still have some serious bugs within their product. It has caused nothing but frustration trying to resolve and has not allowed me to train with power consistently of late therefore I have sent through an email requesting a full refund, I however don't believe everyone has had this amount of drama with their product I just wish I had have moved on earlier.

 

Hey mate, yeah yours sounds like a real problem.

 

I own one myself and bought it before they were available in Oz, and apart from battery life being inconsistent, it has been great. Hopefully new Firmware and a new battery cover and it will be sweet.

 

Im not here to make excuses for them or put words in their mouth so I wont, except to say that the issues I mentioned above were told to me to be the cause of "a lot" of the issues with the stages, obviously if these fail there may be something more sinister and Danny did say they are keen to make sure everyone is happy with their product.

 

Good luck with it and keep us posted.

[prizna 715]

Where do I start Matt..... I'm onto my 4th stages since last October, this current new one was given to me by the distributor with a brand new 500 edge because they strongly believe that it's a garmin issue re syncing/calibrating and drop out issues. This is absolute BS, I used it twice last week and worked ok but with drop outs then Saturday long ride and no connection AGAIN!! They said they believed that my 500 may have corrupted the stages so they sent me 2 brand new tested units and same shit happens.

 

I'll be demanding a full refund after over 6 months of stuff around, don't make the same mistake piss it off now and as suggested above get a decent PM. I must admit the distributor made some effort to resolve but stages have a lot to answer for.

 

just curious how big are you?

 

I had issues with pm to computer reception which resulted in infrequent drop outs. I'm tall riding a xl frame and also had my garmin on top of a bottle. I tried a bunch of different set ups and found that if the garmin is too far towards the front of my bottle and handle bars it can drop out, also found that it can be right at the front but if a bottle goes in the cage it will cause a drop out. I've got it in a position now so that its closer to the PM but requires me to look down to read it. It isn't ideal but works.

[tortoise 859]

Blimey, if 10cm and a bit of intervening plastic makes the difference between getting bluetooth transmission and not, there's something seriously wrong.

 

Oh for the good old days where you could get your hands on a decent product spec and instructions which might have included maximum transmission dimensions. This new-fangled on-line stuff is pretty minimalist. Same goes for Kickr documentation.

[roxii 7,204]

Might also be worth trying it out with the app in bluetooth mode to see if there is any difference as they are different protocols and have different send/ receive rates so I believe.

[AVAGO 352]

one of these helped me train & race to multiple < 6 hr IM rides and in turn <11 hr IMs

so maybe this new fangled PM technology is holding me back :-)

[RunBrettRun 2,038]

 

just curious how big are you?

 

I had issues with pm to computer reception which resulted in infrequent drop outs. I'm tall riding a xl frame and also had my garmin on top of a bottle. I tried a bunch of different set ups and found that if the garmin is too far towards the front of my bottle and handle bars it can drop out, also found that it can be right at the front but if a bottle goes in the cage it will cause a drop out. I've got it in a position now so that its closer to the PM but requires me to look down to read it. It isn't ideal but works.

I'd be surprised if he was on anything bigger than a xs bike. Maybe even 650

[MJK 169]

I've just been on the phone to Danny from FE Sports.

 

A couple of things to check:

Make sure firmware is current on the stages and the head unit.

There is a firmware update just released a week or so ago for stages.This should fix the battery drain issue for most. It was to do with a power surge on start up that was draining batteries. This should be fixed.

Make sure you have a recent battery cover. They have got the part supplier to remodel the cover and it's material to make the new one much more durable. Which coupled with extended battery life should mean hopefully no more issues.

Inside the cover should be a year number and an arrow pointing to the month, ideally you should be using a late, late 2014 cover or 2015 cover. These will be the good ones. If not get to your retailer and they should have spares available free of charge.

Lastly ( in MJKs case) maybe try a later head unit such as the 510 if you can as the 500 while still functional is getting on now and may not be the best match for a new stages, also try the head unit in another position if you are using it in aero bars as apparently the pick up may not be ideal depending on where it is situated. (Worth noting these are Garmin issues not Stages issues but still means the system doesn't work)

Faing that it is not unheard of but very very rare to have a hardware issue in which case stages are committed to making sure all customers are 100% happy so MJK if you still can't resolve it they encourage you to give them a call.

Thanks Pete. Good info.

[hacq1 348]

Prizna, as RBR stated I'm a midget and would need a ladder to get on a XL. Yes I do have the garmin in front of the bottle mount but even when it was on the stem it still had drop outs every now and then. the problem now is that once it loses signal u can't re sync even with the iphone app.

[prizna 715]

sounds like a new bike will fix your problems

[hacq1 348]

or rider....

[roxii 7,204]

Here is the media release regarding the firmware update:

 

 

Stages Cycling issue Stages Power App and firmware revisions

 

Stages stay true to the commitment to continuous improvement for the Stages Power meter

 

Stages Cycling, Boulder, CO, For Immediate Release: As part of Stages Cycling’s long-term product maintenance plan, Stages Cycling has again improved the Stages Power meter through attention to the device firmware.

 

Today, Stages Cycling released improvements to the Stages Power App and the Stages Power meter firmware. Stages recommend all riders with Stages Power meters update both their App and firmware. When updating, please update the Stages Power App first and then update the Stages Power meter firmware to preserve the system’s full functionality.

 

Improvements to the App and firmware come as a result of evolving Bluetooth communication protocols and agreement on the Bluetooth standard for sport devices. Because of the two-way communication capabilities of Bluetooth, failing to update either the App or firmware will result in limited functionality within the system.

 

After update, the Stages Power App will work with current Bluetooth standard devices and with Stages Cycling’s new indoor cycling power meters. The new App will also display ANT+ ID for quick meter identification in multiple-meter environments. Finally, Android users will now have access to the high-speed data capture feature.

 

The new firmware iteration allows for use of the Stages Power meter with Polar and other Bluetooth head units. The firmware also makes multiple improvements, including better cadence resolution for high-rpm applications and increases in the power meter sensor’s power and battery management capabilities.

 

This latter improvement addresses battery performance issues documented in the field.

 

“While we cannot personally verify the quality of a rider installed replacement battery, this latest firmware revision directly addresses the issue of random premature battery failure or draining that a small percentage of our customers have experienced and are vocal about,” said Pat Warner, Stages Cycling’s senior vice president. “With this new firmware we’re also gaining 10-percent more battery life in the unaffected meters, so it’s a big win for us all around.”

 

Stages Power App v3.0 improvement breakdown:

 

iOS App

· Updated the Bluetooth API to follow the standard.

· Display ANT+ ID and Serial Number on main page.

· Fix for excessive data usage when launching app.

· Fix for Negative Celsius readings.

 

Android App

· Updated the Bluetooth API to follow the standard.

· High Speed data functionality added.

· Battery Level reading bug fix.

 

Firmware v2.0.76 improvement breakdown:

· Updated Bluetooth API to match standard.

· Improvements and refinements to cadence detection.

· Bug fixes for meter startup/shutdown eliminating potential to over-burden battery.

· Optimized processor functions when connected to Bluetooth.

· Improvements to power and battery management extending battery life.

 

Finding the Stages Power App

 

The Stages Power App can be found by searching for ‘StagesPower’ in the iTunes App store (though the Stages Power App is universal, if searching for iPad, please search under ‘iPhone Only Apps’), Google Store or here:

 

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/stagespower/id627813222?mt=8

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.stagescycling.utility&hl=en

 

Reminder of Device Compatibility Requirements

 

The Stages Power utility App requires devices utilizing Bluetooth 4.0. For iOS devices, the minimum requirement is iPhone 4s or newer, or third generation iPad, or newer. For Android devices the Stages Power App requires OS 4.4 and newer. The App requires 6.1MB of free space to run.

 

Stages Cycling LLC, based in Boulder, CO, launched the Stages Power meter at Interbike in September 2012. The new Stages Power meter immediately made waves in the power measurement category. The new meter’s high-tech feature set, extremely low weight, unique direct left sided direct measure design, and economical cost make it the best choice for cyclists looking to train with power, including the two-time Tour de France champions, Team Sky.

[Cat Terrist 62]

Okay to be fair here -

 

1) I just checked the new battery door - it is quite def. a different design on the tabs and they did not break when I removed the door to do a battery change just then. First time no tabs have been damaged. It is a 2015 build door.

 

2) Updated Stages app on my phone (Android version) and it this time conencted much better to the power meter. It has never been quick but I would regard a wait of 5-7 seconds to id and connect to be what it should be. I have had up to a minute if it conencted at all before.

 

3) Firmware update did take a while, I also regard that as good as clearly a fair bit is being changed.

 

4) Calibrations and detections of state of Stages was cleaner and quicker than it ever has been.

 

I'll be riding this afternoon so I will report any differences. However at least what I have seen verses the Stages advice above seems consistent.

[Cat Terrist 62]

On the other hand -

 

1) Issues with syncing with my Garmin 810 while the Garmin speed sensor was active

 

2) Put in a fresh battery. 4.5 hours and it's signalling low battery.

 

3) 5 minutes of truly crap data today, claimed I was at the max the power meter could read. Nooooope.

[tortoise 859]

Cat Terrist, did you pick up your replacement cover in the CBD, if so where? and did they need the bung one, or just gave you the new? I'm in town today and could find a spare 30 minutes to get to any of the LBSs.

[hacq1 348]

After the advice from Fe to update the iphone app and upload new firmware to the new stages it still won't sync, been advised to change the battery again, this will be the 6th battery in 2 months!! and then the advice was to "thump the hell out of the stages" to try and pair. If this fails I'm to organize sending the units back through the LBS I bought it through GRRRR.....

[roxii 7,204]

I know for ages my wouldn't synch with my phone, but would pair instantly with my ipad. Therefore I assumed that was a phone issue not a stages issue. I tried turning off the bluetooth then turning it back on again and it paired fine.

 

Now it seems to be working well.

[Chookman 221]

Hmmm, quality product! Glad I didn't waste money on one!

[hacq1 348]

Go on waste your money its fun!!!

[Chookman 221]

Go on waste your money its fun!!!

Haha, don't worry I waste enough on other crap!

[Cat Terrist 62]

Cat Terrist, did you pick up your replacement cover in the CBD, if so where? and did they need the bung one, or just gave you the new? I'm in town today and could find a spare 30 minutes to get to any of the LBSs.

 

 

Jet Cycles. I bought the Stages from there in the first place.

[JGF 186]

.

Edited May 13, 2015 by JGF