prizna 715 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Just did first ftp test in a long time. First one on a trainer. Did I take the first half too easy? I was stinging and really struggling the last 3 minutes but there solid growth for the last 6 minutes. 20 minute test, grey lines are 100w apart . Link to post Share on other sites
Harts 242 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I reckon it isn't too bad. I reckon you could have gone out a little harder. Bear in mind if you are going to transfer this over to use on the road it would be 25-30 watts lower. I had a look in my ride feed and it gives a good break down of each 5 mins. Link to post Share on other sites
Steely 63 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Thats a solid 120w right there! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
fluro2au 89 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 You took it out way too easy. Generally break a test up into quarters, the 3rd quarter in well executed test usually results in the lowest AP. A test like yours should never see power profile north that much towards then end of the test. Just googled some results (well executed ones too) I wouldn't be using this test to set up your zones, but it is a good starting point. Draw a line through that 3rd quarter where you power levels out, set that up as a benchmark and have another crack. fluro 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RunBrettRun 2,038 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I reckon it isn't too bad. I reckon you could have gone out a little harder. Bear in mind if you are going to transfer this over to use on the road it would be 25-30 watts lower. I had a look in my ride feed and it gives a good break down of each 5 mins. Lower or higher on the road? I thought the talk was it would be lower on the trainer than the road? Link to post Share on other sites
Lostkiwi 150 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Lower or higher on the road? I thought the talk was it would be lower on the trainer than the road?Most are lower on the trainer. Link to post Share on other sites
RunBrettRun 2,038 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Maybe I misread what harts said. Link to post Share on other sites
Lostkiwi 150 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Maybe I misread what harts said.Well I did as well then. Link to post Share on other sites
Charlesn 210 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 You took it out way too easy. Generally break a test up into quarters, the 3rd quarter in well executed test usually results in the lowest AP. A test like yours should never see power profile north that much towards then end of the test fluro Agree. Went out too easy, Link to post Share on other sites
Alex Simmons 857 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 If you realise you've started too easy and are able to punch along much harder in the second half, just extend the test. Link to post Share on other sites
prizna 715 Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 so converting to road am i adding x watts to trainer ftp or subtracting from Link to post Share on other sites
Lostkiwi 150 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Most people would say add x watts to ftp for the road. But really that's not the right thing to do. Go down to Nundah and do the same test around the circuit. This way you will get an accurate number. My trainer versus road ftp used to be about 40 watts different, but now with a different trainer, it's much closer. As far as I know, there isn't a decent equation for "x". Link to post Share on other sites
Esoteric 502 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Most people would say add x watts to ftp for the road. But really that's not the right thing to do. Go down to Nundah and do the same test around the circuit. This way you will get an accurate number. My trainer versus road ftp used to be about 40 watts different, but now with a different trainer, it's much closer. As far as I know, there isn't a decent equation for "x". Yes, afaik a trainer ftp is great for trainer sessions and road ftp for road. Crossing the two is not always going to work (although depending on trainer the variance may differ). Link to post Share on other sites
prizna 715 Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yeah alright will have to work out two numbers. Nundah is a bit far from Canberra. Thanks though Link to post Share on other sites
Toolish 426 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 My road FTP is a bit higher than the trainer, but I do the bulk of my quality sessions on the trainer so I just make sure any road sessions I am near the top of the prescribed zone. E.g. Yesterday I had a session asking for 1 hour @ Z3 which for me is about 180-210 watts according to my trainer FTP. I just targeted 210 watts and it seemed about right. To me plus or minus 5-10 watts in a session like that is not a massive deal. If my trainer FTP is increasing then my training is doing what I want it to. When it comes nearer to race time I will be doing more road simulation sessions to work out target wattages better then. Link to post Share on other sites
Harts 242 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 it was referring to using the Wahoo Kickr as a power source and not validating it with a power meter you would use on a road. To date the overwhelming majority or results on the wahoo kickr give a reading 25-30 watts higher. You did use a wahoo kickr right?? Link to post Share on other sites
prizna 715 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 it was referring to using the Wahoo Kickr as a power source and not validating it with a power meter you would use on a road. To date the overwhelming majority or results on the wahoo kickr give a reading 25-30 watts higher. You did use a wahoo kickr right?? Yeah on Kickr. Estimating fitness/ftp levels at the moment taking 25-30 from the Kickrs FTP would be very close to what I was expecting. I think work trainer sessions on kickrs ftp numbers but do combination of road rides at feel and effort closer to races and should be able to estimate. Link to post Share on other sites
RunBrettRun 2,038 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Do you have a power meter on your bike? Edited March 6, 2015 by RunBrettRun Link to post Share on other sites
prizna 715 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Do you have a power meter on your bike? I do and yes I will compare the two. Link to post Share on other sites
Alex Simmons 857 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 People don't have two FTPs, just one. The fact that some are unable to express it while training in certain environments (e.g. on an indoor trainer, when it's hot, at 1500m altitude etc) is another matter entirely. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
prizna 715 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 People don't have two FTPs, just one. The fact that some are unable to express it while training in certain environments (e.g. on an indoor trainer, when it's hot, at 1500m altitude etc) is another matter entirely. You have one ftp but you can have more than one device recording that ftp which could provide two different values that you assign to ftp. Link to post Share on other sites
Harts 242 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Yeah on Kickr. Estimating fitness/ftp levels at the moment taking 25-30 from the Kickrs FTP would be very close to what I was expecting. I think work trainer sessions on kickrs ftp numbers but do combination of road rides at feel and effort closer to races and should be able to estimate. That said I have dialled my kickr via inflating my FTP on Trainer Road so as when I work at a given % of the FTP it mirrors my actual FTP which is being recorded on the Garmin. I belive a fix is VERY close for the kickr to be controlled via external ANT+ power meter. That said the way a kickr just throws the resistance at you and you just pedal is still awesome. Link to post Share on other sites
Esoteric 502 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 People don't have two FTPs, just one. The fact that some are unable to express it while training in certain environments (e.g. on an indoor trainer, when it's hot, at 1500m altitude etc) is another matter entirely. The reason I said that was if I use my indoor trainer derived ftp for pacing in a race and am unable to replicate this power comfortably it's going to mean poor pacing and thus, waste of time using power. Mine are pretty much the same so no issue but for guys describing significant differences it's going to skew targeted training / racing. Link to post Share on other sites
tri_hard 228 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 My FTP tests between the trainer and road are generally within a couple watts of each other. I use a powertap for both Link to post Share on other sites
Lostkiwi 150 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 My FTP tests between the trainer and road are generally within a couple watts of each other. I use a powertap for bothGot good fans? Link to post Share on other sites
thekeeper 52 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 You have one ftp but you can have more than one device recording that ftp which could provide two different values that you assign to ftp. Fix the reasons for the difference. Link to post Share on other sites
ashley_s 84 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Fix the reasons for the difference. This is why when I am looking at power meters, I want both consitency and accuracy. Link to post Share on other sites
RunBrettRun 2,038 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 You have one ftp but you can have more than one device recording that ftp which could provide two different values that you assign to ftp. You have a power meter on your bike. I don't understand why you would record figures off another device which could read differently Link to post Share on other sites
prizna 715 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 You have a power meter on your bike. I don't understand why you would record figures off another device which could read differently Erg mode you have to use kickrs power As harts says might be possible soon to use power metre but for now no choice. Link to post Share on other sites
RunBrettRun 2,038 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Does yours read differently? Mine is never more than 5 watts different with my garmin set to 3sec avg. Link to post Share on other sites
prizna 715 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Yeah it does. Im going to record both for a while compare the two see if difference is obvious and go from there. Once I know the difference try and correct it Link to post Share on other sites
Harts 242 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 I think everyone is getting a little confused with the message. Kickr have a known drift as it warms up. Starts out spot on for about 2 mins. Ends up reading 25-30 watts higher then power2max and many others such as quark, SRM. It is well documented. It is not about have 2 FTP's but actually training at an accurate measure of that FTP. You can read all about it here. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Controlling_the_Kickr_via_external_power_meter_now_possible_P5396505/ Link to post Share on other sites
RunBrettRun 2,038 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Ive read it harts. I dont have the issue with mine. It reads the same as my quarq Link to post Share on other sites
The Glycogen Lilo 306 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Me too. Clearly some Kickrs have had drift issues but others don't drift at all (or simply drift at the same rate as another power meter like a quarq). Edited March 8, 2015 by The Glycogen Lilo Link to post Share on other sites
tri_hard 228 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Got good fans? 2 x pedistal fans. They are just cheap ones but do work ok. Link to post Share on other sites
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