Chris Horner

[RunLong 58]

What do we think about the 41 yo former LA team mate being about to win the Vuelta?

 

Am I a cynic to suggest he has done nothing all year and is pretty much the only yank of his generation to not have been done for juice (yet)?

 

 

[Diamonds 473]

Nah. Now the Spaniards are clean he is able to shine.

[Naut 718]

It's hard not to be cynical about every cyclist. Sometimes you just have to just kick back and enjoy the event.

[louey 67]

if horner is cheating, he must be doing what sky are doing.. dont make this a US thing because of LA!

[Oompa Loompa 913]

Innocent to proven guilty

[RunLong 58]

if horner is cheating, he must be doing what sky are doing.. dont make this a US thing because of LA!

 

Yeah, US riders are so clean:

 

Frankie Andreu, Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Tyler Hamilton, George Hincapie, Floyd Landis, Levi Leipheimer, Stephen Swart(NZ), Christian Vande Velde, Jonathan Vaughters and David Zabriskie.

[RunLong 58]

Innocent to proven guilty

 

 

True

[Arpit 283]

Best cycling story in years

[nealo 1,657]

Sometimes you just have to just kick back and enjoy the event.

 

 

I agree

[staelthrider 45]

Horner, you mean rider 15?

 

Say it isn't so...

[Clydesdale 66]

does this not demonstrate that they are cleaning the sport up.

[louey 67]

Retarded thread !

[Ex-Hasbeen 8,122]

Just take it as a great bike race.

 

The climb last night was one of the best I've seen in years, with only 3s between the 2 leaders, and 4s time bonus difference between 1st & 2nd it was shaping into a ding dong battle. Gradients up to 23%, and average speeds up the climb of only 13km/h, Nibali making attack after attack, to try and rid himself of Horner, Rodriguez & team attacking to try to get time back on Valverde, and a young survivor of the large breakaway keeping it together long enough to take the biggest win of his career.

 

Forget the drugs and watch it as pure entertainment.

[The Glycogen Lilo 306]

Just take it as a great bike race.

 

The climb last night was one of the best I've seen in years, with only 3s between the 2 leaders, and 4s time bonus difference between 1st & 2nd it was shaping into a ding dong battle. Gradients up to 23%, and average speeds up the climb of only 13km/h, Nibali making attack after attack, to try and rid himself of Horner, Rodriguez & team attacking to try to get time back on Valverde, and a young survivor of the large breakaway keeping it together long enough to take the biggest win of his career.

 

Forget the drugs and watch it as pure entertainment.

One of the most exciting mountain stages I've ever seen!! Man on man racing. No single dominant team. Attack and counterattack until Nibali had nothing left. Great to watch!

[Tyno 2,403]

Proves nothing of course, but interesting tweet none the less:

Cillian Kelly ‏@irishpeloton2h

Number of riders older than Chris Horner to have ever *finished* the Vuelta a Espana: ZERO

[Niseko 779]

Why question it? The guy is champion. He won the race. He's top of the podium. Just enjoy it.

 

So sad all this questioning of true champions in this day and age. I just don't get it. Says a lot about the sad lives of the people who can't accept true champions just win because they are the best and train the bestest and harderer than all the rest.

 

They are most likely just trying to make up for all the excuses they make for their own life and why they are not on the top of the podium themselves. Trying to heap totally unfounded accusations on the true champions is just them trying to make themselves feel better for the failures in their own tiny meaningless lives. They never would do what is required to win at that level, so they just complain about the champions who did what was required. So sad.

Edited September 15, 2013 by niseko

[trek52 474]

Hasn't kona been won by a 39 year old ?

[Oompa Loompa 913]

Don Bradman was on drugs.

[Jimmy C 299]

have a read of some of Horners interviews. He has spent a good deal of the last 7+ years injured or sideline by illness/crashes. He had a lot of times he just missed out winning titles.Also the speed of the races has come down- he can now be very competitive again which is why he is winning late in his career- he had little chance of it before against the doped peers. As someone said above there is "not one dominant team" in this race/riders are a lot more evenly matched. Plans on riding till 50 if he can.......

[Oompa Loompa 913]

have a read of some of Horners interviews. He has spent a good deal of the last 7+ years injured or sideline by illness/crashes. He had a lot of times he just missed out winning titles.Also the speed of the races has come down- he can now be very competitive again which is why he is winning late in his career- he had little chance of it before against the doped peers. As someone said above there is "not one dominant team" in this race/riders are a lot more evenly matched. Plans on riding till 50 if he can.......

and mate if you're good enough, why wouldn't you go to 50. I just think its great.

[MountainMan 894]

Why question it? The guy is champion. He won the race. He's top of the podium. Just enjoy it.

 

So sad all this questioning of true champions in this day and age. I just don't get it. Says a lot about the sad lives of the people who can't accept true champions just win because they are the best and train the bestest and harderer than all the rest.

 

They are most likely just trying to make up for all the excuses they make for their own life and why they are not on the top of the podium themselves. Trying to heap totally unfounded accusations on the true champions is just them trying to make themselves feel better for the failures in their own tiny meaningless lives. They never would do what is required to win at that level, so they just complain about the champions who did what was required. So sad.

 

Or maybe because every, single one of the Professional cyclist they idolised, cheered and lorded over the past 20 years turned out to be lying cheats. They sat around with friends and family saying to anyone that would listen how <insert cyclist> was a great champion. Now those same family and friends ask them how they feel now and you think it is jealousy and personal inadequacy?

 

All professional cyclists from that era deserve suspicion, every "amazing performance" in cycling deserves scepticism. Any fan of Pro cycling in the 90s and 00s is entitled to be bitter and resentful without someone digging a finger in their ribs about how they are just jealous.

[Alex Simmons 857]

Horner, you mean rider 15?

 

Say it isn't so...

 

That does need clearing up.

[TUv5.0 370]

It's hard not to be cynical about every cyclist. Sometimes you just have to just kick back and enjoy the event.

 

Its hard not to be cynical about every athlete.

 

There fixed that for ya.

 

Horner trained a lot with triathletes a few years back including a very prominent Australian one and did a lot of riding with him I believe.

[REBEL08 67]

Same avg watts/kg of 5.90 as Froome! Hmmm

[Arpit 283]

 

All professional cyclists from that era deserve suspicion, every "amazing performance" in cycling deserves scepticism. Any fan of Pro cycling in the 90s and 00s is entitled to be bitter and resentful without someone digging a finger in their ribs about how they are just jealous.

 

Bitter and Resentful ??? You have got to be kidding... Its a bloody sport if you have forgotten. Why waste your time being bitter ?

 

If Horner tomorrow is found to be lying cheat - just shrug your shoulders and look for the next best thing. Why spoil the enjoyment of the present based on what could happen in the future...

[RunLong 58]

 

Or maybe because every, single one of the Professional cyclist they idolised, cheered and lorded over the past 20 years turned out to be lying cheats. They sat around with friends and family saying to anyone that would listen how <insert cyclist> was a great champion. Now those same family and friends ask them how they feel now and you think it is jealousy and personal inadequacy?

 

All professional cyclists from that era deserve suspicion, every "amazing performance" in cycling deserves scepticism. Any fan of Pro cycling in the 90s and 00s is entitled to be bitter and resentful without someone digging a finger in their ribs about how they are just jealous.

 

That is the point. Maybe a few on this thread should get their cash back from the Landis fairness fund...

[MountainMan 894]

 

Bitter and Resentful ??? You have got to be kidding... Its a bloody sport if you have forgotten. Why waste your time being bitter ?

 

If Horner tomorrow is found to be lying cheat - just shrug your shoulders and look for the next best thing. Why spoil the enjoyment of the present based on what could happen in the future...

Wasn't talking about myself mate, I am not a fan of any sport to be honest and wouldn't be able to pick Mr Horner if he came up and shock my hand. I didn't even know the Veluta was on.

 

Fan is short for fanatic. Non-competitors love sport, they scream and jump up and down and cry and fight each other over it. I imagine bitter and resentful would be the lower end of the scale for a lot of fans.

[Abby 125]

I got on Horner at 75-1 prior to the Vuelta.

 

So yeah, I am now his biggest fan...

[TUv5.0 370]

Drugs or no drugs he is still 42.

[MountainMan 894]

Drugs or no drugs he is still 42.

I know... Imagine seeing he or Jens Voight at the start line of your next Masters race.

[Slowman 352]

I don't think he is riding any better than he has in the past but with some good form and good luck coming together it worked out for him. He was a very capable helper for Cadel while he was at Lotto and as others have suggested as the sport has cleaned up and slowed down that has helped too. He reminds me of the guy in the movie Tin Cup that Kevin Costner played. Horner said in an interview once how he always liked to attack on the hills and never wanted to play it safe and just win a tour through TTs. He was critical of that style of riding - just doing enough. I don't necessarily agree with it because if TTs are your real strength over climbing you really don't have much choice in the matter. Anyway I think it was a great win and in the way he wanted to do it. He more or less won the TOC 2011 in the same fashion.

 

It all looks normal. He's been riding at this level for a long time but never could shine out in the past. It is unfortunate most people will just look one or 2 facts and ignore the rest; 41 and he wins a grand tour. Anyone remember Danny Clark? Another guy with career longevity, won his last UCI world championship at 39 and continued to race the CommBank Classic and race elite at 50! You really have to look a bit beyond the headlines of journalists that 2/5 of nothing about the sport and Chris Horner.

[Peter 4,263]

He has spent a good deal of the last 7+ years injured or sideline by illness/crashes. He had a lot of times he just missed out winning titles.Also the speed of the races has come down- he can now be very competitive again which is why he is winning late in his career- he had little chance of it before against the doped peers.

 

Great explanation. Makes it seem legit. Thanks

[TrevS 349]

At 41yrs he set the 3rd fastest time up the Angliru (I think it was Heras and Cobo that were faster??), the penultimate stage of one of the most mountainous Grand Tours for a number of years.

Recovery at that elite level for a 41year old verses guys 10 to 20yrs younger??

Granted if it was a classic or short stage race but not a grand tour which is a lot more taxing.

 

I find his overall race performance as one of those standouts.

[REBEL08 67]

Exactly, its not a 1 day he is this this over, its 20 odd days going up 23% inclines at times.

 

Seriously if anyone thinks this is ligit, they need there heads read. Its a fairytale that will in months to come be the next chapter of another cyclist who druged his way to the top.

[Ex-Hasbeen 8,122]

And did you notice that dirty cheating Spaniard. When he dropped Rodriguez, the official car was stuck behind Rodriguez with the camera bike behind that. As the camera bike got past & accelerated through the mist to a point where you could just make out Valverde, you could see a crowd pushing him up the steepest part of the switchback. As soon as the bike was visible, they broke up, but it's just one more reason I hate the man.

[louey 67]

so much hate here. let watch triathlon and be friends

[Coach@triathlon 780]

over 4o year olds competing at an elite/pro level is established across all sports now.

 

His performance is not remarkable and is consistent with his abilities

[RunLong 58]

so much hate here. let watch triathlon and be friends

 

Don't think it is hate as such. Seems more like process of deduction to me.

[TUv5.0 370]

Carlos Lopez. Olympic Marathon champion age 40. 1984 Los Angeles Olympics.

[TrevS 349]

over 4o year olds competing at an elite/pro level is established across all sports now.

 

His performance is not remarkable and is consistent with his abilities

I don't query 40yr olds being able to compete at elite level.

I query the 40yr olds ability to recover during a Grand Tour and be competitive day after day of mountains (there was 11 hill top finishes in this years Vuelta) over that of other elite guys 10 to 20yrs his junior.

 

As I mentioned earlier a one day classic or shorter stage race I wouldn't see an issue, but one of the toughest Grand Tours for some time, is a different ball game. Let alone setting the 3rd fastest time ever up the Anglira at the tail end of those 3 weeks.

(if conditions were favourable on the day to fast times then others to would have faired better).

 

If he finished between 10th and 60th, fading at the end of the stage on the climbs would be consistent with his past abilities.

He has improved a fair bit in the last 3-4yrs (in major stage races) which would not be consistent with every other elite athlete in that age bracket who has been competing at that level for 15-20yrs.

 

It was an extraordinary ride from Horner.

[KKB 37]

Anyway, Lopes was 37 when he won gold at LA in '84.

 

I guess technically, he was still Olympic champion 3 years later (just before the next games)

[MountainMan 894]

Grand tour cycling is a lot different than Marathons, Triathlons, Marathon Swimming or any other 1-3 day endurance event.

 

The training stress from a breakaway in a single stage of a Grand Tour can be equal to a Marathon. That is one stage in 20+ stages more or less back-to-back, nothing compares that I can think of...?

 

There is a reason PEDs were rampant in Cycling for decades - No other sport comes close to the advantages that can be gained by increases to endurance and recovery than GT cycling. None.

[Slowman 352]

Here's his secret training technique....

 

 

 

http://gritandglimmer.com/chris-horner-gives-fallen-rider-and-bike-a-2k-ride-to-the-finish/

[Ex-Hasbeen 8,122]

Mentioning records on the hill is very subjective. Remember that 2 others were only about 20sec behind him this year. The climb has only been used a handful of times, and one of those, 2002, I can still remember the controvery of going up there in the rain. The riders kept slipping on the paint on the road, the cars stalled & held up riders, and Millar was so disgusted he got to a few metres from the line, took his number off and withdrew from the race in protest.

Times are also dependant upon the stage of the race, and the situation of the leaders. With only a single flat stage to go, and a time bonus the difference between 1st & 2nd, you have to expect the riders to give it all. If there are a few more stages, and the lead is not so tight, the riders will be a lot more conservative.

 

And if a cyclist (any cyclist) tests positive, I would not be in the least surprised. I'll just keep watching it, because with stages like Saturday night's, I think it's great entertainment, and drugs or not, they ride brilliantly.

[KKB 37]

If anyone in RadioShack was sober, perhaps they could have given the testers a mobile number to find out his 'actual' location.

Seriously, given the 'raised eyebrows' in some sections of the cycling media over his performance, wouldn't Chris Horner be offering to piss in any bottle that gets put in front of him, IF you had nothing to hide?

 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-horner-misses-post-vuelta-anti-doping-test

[Rob 365]

Chris Horner and several other riders are why I think Cadel (and his team) were clean.

 

Any rider that Lotto brought in to help Cadel were never particularly good (I can't remember Horner ever lasting more than half way up the last mountain climb). However these same riders always did far better in other teams either before joining or after leaving Lotto. Makes me think these riders were not receiving stuff at Lotto that they got in other teams.

[Niseko 779]

I'm sick of all this unfounded speculation on pro-riders in Grand Tour races.

 

I just don't get how people can go and make assumptions on these guys without any evidence.

 

It's so easy for people just to point the fingers at these guys and make wild guesses on how they were able to produce such performances.

 

It's very simple, no need to go making crazy judgements that these guys might be clean: If they are competitive: they are doping.

[Oompa Loompa 913]

I'm sick of all this unfounded speculation on pro-riders in Grand Tour races.

 

I just don't get how people can go and make assumptions on these guys without any evidence.

 

It's so easy for people just to point the fingers at these guys and make wild guesses on how they were able to produce such performances.

 

It's very simple, no need to go making crazy judgements that these guys might be clean: If they are competitive: they are doping.

 

Seems to be too, if the rider is American, the rider is picked on more as well. Can remember when that dirty rotten filthy Spanish candyman went positive people were almost in denial but as soon as a septic performs..... He must be on drugs. Racism shouldn't exist, let alone in sport.

 

As I said before, if don bradman did today what he did, all the negative types would be accusing him, again, when Ron Clarke smashed the10k record.... Why can't people accept the performances for what they are, genius like, rather than looking in shadows of negativity for something to disprove the remarkable..... Sad

[Alex Simmons 857]

I'm sick of all this unfounded speculation on pro-riders in Grand Tour races.

 

I just don't get how people can go and make assumptions on these guys without any evidence.

 

It's so easy for people just to point the fingers at these guys and make wild guesses on how they were able to produce such performances.

 

It's very simple, no need to go making crazy judgements that these guys might be clean: If they are competitive: they are doping.

 

It's an unfortunate consequence of an entire generation dominated by dopers, and outrageous levels of doping at that, so I can understand why people are quick to jump to conclusions about a specific individual, even if they may be wrong.

 

Keep in mind that this year some Grand Tour riders have been caught and/or confessed, so the problem still exists even if we think it has abated.

 

A quick glance at this info graphic demonstrates why you have a better than even chance of being right about any rider who's been on the podium (or top 20 in GTs) in major Euro races over the past 33 years having doped, without even having any knowledge of the sport or the rider.

 

Horner may well be "clean" but Levi's Rider #15 reference doesn't exactly help the cause.

[MountainMan 894]

As I said before, if don bradman did today what he did, all the negative types would be accusing him, again, when Ron Clarke smashed the10k record.... Why can't people accept the performances for what they are, genius like, rather than looking in shadows of negativity for something to disprove the remarkable..... Sad

 

Your comparison to cricket sucks OL.

 

As a percentage what do you think a Cricketer could gain from professionally administered EPO, HGH, Steroids and other stuff? 15, 20, 35% Improvement in overall cricketing performance... more like 2%, if that.

 

I don't think it is negative, it is pragmatic and realistic based on past experience with this particular sport.