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2 x IM AG world champion busted for doping


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It's somewhat repetitive mentioning that Power Bands, semi conductors and magnetic field theories are complete BS. Everyone and even their grandma knows that by now.

 

Ben knows that.....he's not selling them here, it's not even clear if he's selling them currently.

 

And there's the bit about BG being an "elite level" triathlete. He does 9 hrs plus.

 

Yet Ben is a person of interest. He's spinning out some topical stuff which bears listening too. I mean 3-4 hours of listening to him talk, and maybe trying to pick out some highlights. Like listening to AP, or even Jabbs ranting, within the rants you may or may not pick up something.

 

As for why Ben is here, I don't know, but I do reckon this forum is desperately in need of some outside sources, people of interest. Like if LA himself was to drop in here and start defending himself. That would be dam interesting, as is Ben.

 

Don't close the door on Ben or anyone. Pick up on the good points....refute the BS....but don't chase the people away.

Edited by kamalarrowsmith
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I don't know about you AP, but if a bloke is willing to defraud people peddling bullshit like this super-encoder shite, why wouldn't he also lie to you about other information?   I prefer to learn n

You know I like you TU, but sometimes you're so off the mark with your comments! Yes when in Australia, Mick's goal would be to win outright, but he would never be so arrogant as to suggest AG racing

A high hypocrite level is what you get from using EPO privately while publicly criticising the use of PED's isn't it?

 

Yet Ben is a person of interest.

 

Or will be to the ACCC

 

 

Don't close the door on Ben or anyone. Pick up on the good points....refute the BS....but don't chase the people away.

 

 

He said he won't engage in discussion, obviously unless its self serving, what then does he offer to Transitions. Dont waste your time or ours K2, maybe do ten questions with one of our newer trannys, or a kona qualifier. Id like to see ten q's with Tortoise.

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We sure have a nice welcoming committee round here - who cares what the guy sells - who cares what he believes - who cares who is friends are - some of you guys should join the KKK :shy:

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Ben knows that.....he's not selling them here, it's not even clear if he's selling them currently.

 

Yes, he is.

 

The website is current, has blog items from this week, the products are still advertised and when you go to the check out you can choose Australia.

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who cares what the guy sells - who cares what he believes

 

 

I don't know about you AP, but if a bloke is willing to defraud people peddling bullshit like this super-encoder shite, why wouldn't he also lie to you about other information?

 

I prefer to learn new information from people I can trust. I can't trust anyone selling obvious sham products.

 

I notice he's also on the board of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Didn't realise selling complete nonsense to people was a Christ... oh, wait... now it makes perfect sense :lol:

Edited by Donncha
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Actually while you are at it how about 10Q's with Alex he certainly has an interesting story to tell, 10 Qs with Donncha about going from elite swimmer to mediocre triathlete :lol:

 

Plenty of options in line before we give web space to somebody trying to sell crap to gullible folks.

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Actually while you are at it how about 10Q's with Alex he certainly has an interesting story to tell, 10 Qs with Donncha about going from elite swimmer to mediocre triathlete :lol:

 

Plenty of options in line before we give web space to somebody trying to sell crap to gullible folks.

 

 

10 Q's with BG was mentioned 3 days ago. Not sure why you keep referring to it.

 

As for other 10 Q's, anyone can put that up as has been the trend.

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Who do you trust on Transitions - a short list would do :shy:

 

 

If I want to learn something about training, then Coach, Fluro, JimmyC, Alex, CEM for starters, and even you AP, though I ignore some of your weirder offerings :P

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Guest samuelEBrown

 

It seems folks here are all to quick to make character assassinations based on personal opinion in preference to discussing the topic.

 

Personally, I go on the basis of seeing the best in people until they prove otherwise, and if I wouldn't say it to their face then I wouldn't say it here. Alas...

 

So you believe Lance Armstrong then? :confused1:

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At least you're a kook who gets results AP and your more "out there" ideas don't fleece anyone of anything but their time and dignity. :D

 

 

It's OK Stickman - you're just not ready for the message yet - you may get there in this life - who knows :sleepy:

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Seriously tho can someone actually share Ben Greenfields bona fides with us? Does he have some scientific or physiological background, or credibility in terms of sporting achievement or longevity and experience in the sport?

 

For me he just appears to be another muppet blogger with a false sense of his own importance.

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Seriously tho can someone actually share Ben Greenfields bona fides with us? Does he have some scientific or physiological background, or credibility in terms of sporting achievement or longevity and experience in the sport?

 

For me he just appears to be another muppet blogger with a false sense of his own importance.

 

Ya just picking on the new kid in the playground :lol: I reckon Frank Day sent him :lol:

 

 

It's OK Stickman - you're just not ready for the message yet - you may get there in this life - who knows :sleepy:

 

The results you achieve are the message. Your messages about why it works come from God knows where :lol: It is a bit like acupuncture it works but the traditional Chinese explanations are a total crock. You're doing much better than that, it's just some of your explanations. If you stuck to explaining what works, and never touched on why, you'd be beyond critique....and achieve that swami guru status :lol:

Edited by Slowman
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I think Ben may have set a record for the shortest time ever to qualify for the 'Grand order of the complete tool' award.... took Peter and a few others little longer..

 

Perhaps do some research on him yourself. He's got plenty of material in the public domain to help you make an informed opinion of his credentials.

 

There's no obligation for him to come back here and respond so until he does all this hot air venting about his is just wasted energy.

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I regularly listen to both the Ben Greenfield Fitness podcast and the Endurance Planet ones which he owns. The former are increasingly harder to listen to as some of the subject matter makes AP's voodoo stuff and mandatory enema policy appear mainstream. I agree with CEM that Ben is very knowledgeable in certain aspects, particularly nutrition, but IMHO he really should reconsider some of the shit he endorses as it erodes all of that other credibility.

 

I quite like his (owns but doesn't appear) Lucho "Ask The Ultrarunner" podcast stuff as Lucho is an ex-IM dude and lots of his training advice is based in IM experience. The giggly EP host does get grating at times and talks like she has done more races than AP.

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Cool, see he is clearly others flavour just not mine. Guess my inabilty to listen to cheesy American feel good bullshit on podcast is to my detriment. Id rather eat my hair.

 

Geez mate, you'd think he'd stolen money from you... oh hang on... you secretly bought some of that funky water and a nice powerband didn't ya'...? :lol:

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Gulliver told me Im stoopid.... Ben is obviously reely reely smart and went to skool.

 

 

He did go to school actually. And Tony it's really shallow to continually try to bring the guy down when you haven't listened to him talk.

 

Listen to a few Podcasts and call BS all you want. But you would then have a point of reference. In fact, i would enjoy hearing you refute some of

his stuff.

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He did go to school actually. And Tony it's really shallow to continually try to bring the guy down when you haven't listened to him talk.

 

Listen to a few Podcasts and call BS all you want. But you would then have a point of reference. In fact, i would enjoy hearing you refute some of

his stuff.

 

You're a cruel man Kammal, you actually want to see punches that connect :lol::lol: don't you?

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I don't know about you AP, but if a bloke is willing to defraud people peddling bullshit like this super-encoder shite, why wouldn't he also lie to you about other information?

I prefer to learn new information from people I can trust. I can't trust anyone selling obvious sham products.

I notice he's also on the board of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Didn't realise selling complete nonsense to people was a Christ... oh, wait... now it makes perfect sense :lol:

gold :lol:

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If this is not some sort of experiment, like Joaquin Phoenix acting like a bearded incoherent homeless rapper for months, then it's as the French say a form of 'career suicide'.

 

Career suicide for who? Moats? Maybe it's hobby suicide.

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By the way. Moats started using testosterone in 2005. Here are his Kona results on either side of that year. Either he and/or the conditions improved or the side effects weren't too bad. Just saying.

 

2003 9:56:11

2004 10:19:49

Started using testosterone

2005 9:33:06

2006 9:26:24

Edited by gulliver
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By the way. Moats started using testosterone in 2005. Here are his Kona results on either side of that year. Either he and/or the conditions improved or the side effects weren't too bad. Just saying.

 

2003 9:56:11

2004 10:19:49

Started using testosterone

2005 9:33:06

2006 9:26:24

 

But purely for medicinal purposes.

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It will be interesting to see if

 

1. Kevin Moats applies for a TUE to use testosterone, and

2. If he is granted the TUE

 

I've read through the findings of the "American Abitration Association" of this case and it seems to me that

 

1. they have harsh criticism of WTC for the loose requirements for TUE's and

2. that Moats failed to demonstrate that he bore no fault or negligence

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I wonder whether he will be on the "juice" next year for Kona. I suppose if he has a TUE, then unless there is some tightening up of the rules, he can race on Testosterone. I doubt WTC or KM would advertise the fact that he is using it, but I'd certainly feel cheated if I came 2nd in his age-group behind him.

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It will be interesting to see if

 

1. Kevin Moats applies for a TUE to use testosterone, and

2. If he is granted the TUE

 

I've read through the findings of the "American Abitration Association" of this case and it seems to me that

 

1. they have harsh criticism of WTC for the loose requirements for TUE's and

2. that Moats failed to demonstrate that he bore no fault or negligence

 

He never could and won't be able to get a TUE for testosterone.

I think that their criticism was that WTC failed to fully describe the TUE requirements and told athletes to refer to their national agencies (e.g. USADA in Moats' case). This from the arbitration findings;

 

"Despite obtaining a prescription for testosterone, a widely known prohibited substance, Mr Moats testified that he did not consult the WTC ADR (anti-doping regulations) to determine whether he required a TUE. Mr Moats further testified that he did not contact WTC, USA Triathlon or USADA to ascertain whether he required a TUE. The Panel concludes that Respondent's failure to read the applicable ADR's and/or contact the appropriate governing bodies regarding the need for a TUE fell below the mandated standard of care, namely "utmost caution" required for a finding of "no fault or negligence".

 

For the record, this is from USADA's TUE applications for testosterone worksheet for physicians and it's pretty clear. http://www.usada.org...-guidelines.pdf

 

 

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     The use of testosterone as an anti-aging medication for men is not justification for a TUE. Similarly, generalized fatigue, slow recovery from exercise and a decreased libido are not, in isolation, justification for the granting of a TUE for testosterone.

     

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    It is extremely unlikely that a Therapeutic Use Exemption will be approved for "functional" hypogonadism (a diagnosis of hypogonadism based on low testosterone levels but without a defined etiology).

     

 

Edited by gulliver
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WTC are in the process of tightening their rules -

 

“We take note of the panel’s recommendations regarding clarity and consistency of our Rules and will work with all our stakeholders and WADA to make any necessary changes to further ensure the effectiveness of the WTC Anti-Doping Program in protecting the principles of clean sport for our athletes and events.”

 

Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/triathlon-news/articles/2012/10/kevin-moats-doping-violation.aspx#ixzz2AwdlIcbq

 

so it will be difficult for Moats to get a TUE to use testosterone unless he has a significant medical condition and aging does not qualify.

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