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Guest 3timesthefun

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Guest 3timesthefun

How the hell are we ever going to beat this thing?

 

Comments here about 80-90% of NRL players on it. Olympics being tarnished etc. is just plain frightening.

 

Cycling, NRL, where does it end?

 

I know I said to Blew the other day not to worry about the triathletes taking it but it is plainly more deeply entrenched than I dared think.

 

How the hell are we ever going to beat this thing?

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I don't think 80-90% are on it for performance enhancing, a lot of it would just be recreational stuff on the weekends just like Joeys Johns.

 

I think it just reflects what society really thinks about most party drugs, for most it is just something to throw into your night out.

 

You receive the John Howard booklet on drugs and all it says - if you take these drugs theae are all the negative side effects - you will die.

 

Problem is that most people take the drugs and don't have those negative side effects and so realise that it is just isn't a realistic portrayal. Part of the reason i believe that drug education in schools doesn't work.

 

I completely agree that Ice and Heroin are bad, but they are very different drugs to something like ecstasy. Again different drugs on a different scale.

 

Beat it? why bother?

 

:lol:

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I completely agree that Ice and Heroin are bad, but they are very different drugs to something like ecstasy. Again different drugs on a different scale.

307776[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

But you are taking risks with getting something made in a backyard Lab. Aren't you?

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"How the hell are we ever going to beat this thing?"

Hate to say it but you can't.

There is always going to be some people of all levels who are of a strong competitive nature and will take any advantage to beat their opponent or win that race etc. etc.

 

It's not just drugs either, it's anything to get the advantage.

I've seen plenty of lowly graded players argue and carry on like their life is on the line all for that small competitive edge. Some will blatantly cheat if they can get away with it. What makes it look even more ridiculous is they are not even very good players. In fact I would even say it's the lower graded players that tend to be worse in this regard.

 

I've played against guys who have cheated any number of times during matches and the less experienced ref you get the worse it is. It gets extremely frustrating to play against these type of guys when they get away with crap and I can honestly say that it is very hard to not get drawn into the same type of play to try and get some sort of pay back.

 

As somebody (I think MMW) mentioned on a previous thread, some people will look for the easiest way to gain an advantage for the less effort on their part and if that means taking drugs to help they will take them especially if they know they can't or won't be caught.

 

 

 

If they want to beat the drugs in sport then the powers that be have to be ruthless.

If they are ruthless then they could end up killing the sport at the levels we the public are used to seeing and expect.

Imagine if the ARL (or whomever) where ruthless and did very stringent testing, banning all players for any drug, the level of play would be lower, more injuries ie:longer recovery etc. etc. The spectacle is less, you don't want to watch a C grade game when your used to watching A grade. From there it's a down slide, killing themselves. "Catch 22"

 

 

What is the solution???

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It's a natural progression from the young (14-16yr boys) at rugby games all having a Red Bull before their games.

 

Mum buys it, everyone does it, it is a drug :lol:

 

When they grow up a bit the attitude expands along with their body, there's no way a NRL player who takes "recreational drugs" doesn't take speed for the game and steriods for recovery ;)

 

Of course they do. Would they be so pious that they would say no to something that would make them play faster and harder ;) or something that would make them recover faster and stronger :gathering: and then the same guys go out on Friday night and take a party drug to help them handle the pressure of being at the top of their sport :lol::D

 

Can anyone recall :D Alfie Langer being interviewed at the end of a game. He spoke so fast, the interview almost needed to be played back at half speed so you could understand it ;) When we finish a race, we don't talk any faster than we normally do :D do we ;)

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Beat it? why bother?

 

:lol:

 

307776[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

completely agree. just be content that your life is in better shape than others.

 

i dont think i can handle hearing any more about drugs of any kind.

 

concentrate on your own square meter

 

 

edit for digusting spelling

Edited by roo
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completely agee. just be content that your life is in better shape than others.

 

i dont think i can handle hearing any more about drugs of any kind.

 

contrate on your own square meter

 

WORD!

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Guest 3timesthefun
concentrate on your own square meter

 

You know what? That was my comment the other day but I tend to feel now that it is closer to my own square metre than I realised if stories of AGers taking this crap is to be believed.

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It starts with the public acceptance of alcohol for celebratory and intoxicating purposes (as opposed to a small glass of wine with dinner). The fact that everyone (99% of people anyway) thinks its OK to drink and get smashed (just look at IM preso night!) is the biggest drug issue facing society. Alcohol is leading to the other drugs. Stop the alcohol and stop the other drugs.

 

So in reality you will never stop it - cause no adult looking after their own square metre will give up the booze and no organisation will get serious on boozing. For christ's sake - the ARU has tossed and turned on the issue as to whether or not players will be allowed out after midnight - they are not even considering the fact that players shouldn't be touching alcohol full stop.

 

You use you lose - no matter what the drug.

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the drugs do not have to be directly performance enhancing to actually help in many other ways. u have to remember alot of these guys r not very disiplined. then how do they all look they way they do. they eat and drink what they like. all rec drugs will help the body in more ways than 1. so rec drug or not, it still enhances the performance of the athelete in other ways.

 

energy/stimulant, weight loss/metabolic rate etc.

 

:lol::lol::D:D

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As a father of 2 teenage daughter's, my biggest concern is that they will be unknowingly given drugs, or that peer pressure will overtake common sense.

 

All I can do is reinforce to them, that they are in control of their own destiny and when making choices, that they fully understand what the consequences of those choices will be. :lol:

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3x - Interesting because i was having this discussion the other night with a few other people in the household when the drug pamphlet arrived from our PM.

 

My issue with all of those booklets is that they essentially just say this is all the bad things that are going to happen to you. Then young people come along and take the drugs and rather than suddenly convulse and die, they actually feel pretty good - the complete opposite of what all the warnings say. So then they think all that talk is garbage.

 

While no doubt there are instances where people have died and there is no doubt that they are dangerous, but you also have to admit that some people will also enjoy the highs that they receive.

 

If drugs were all about death, how come so many people take them? They don't want to die- rather they enjoy the experience.

 

How do you then discourage kids?? Don't know. I think it also comes down to them knowing that i something did happen, that they shouldn't be afraid to pick up the phone and call for help. Plus they should always look after each other and leave no man behind.

 

:lol:

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All I can do is reinforce to them, that they are in control of their own destiny and when making choices, that they fully understand what the consequences of those choices will be. :lol:

 

 

That's easily the best approach. If you can, educate them about drugs. There are a couple of good web sites out there (whose names escape me) with real information from people who've used the drugs in question, and which will detail exactly what to expect, and more importantly, steps which can be taken to try to ensure any experience is a safe one. Instill a bit of smarts and self-confidence in them and the odds of something bad happening to them as a result of drugs drops from almost nothing to infinitessimal.

 

Incidentally, the UK House of Lords commissioned a report into their drug classification laws which attempted to scientifically classify all drugs based on their harm to society. It included the following paragraph:

 

"106. One of the most striking findings highlighted in the paper drafted by Professor Nutt

and his colleagues was that fact that, on the basis of their assessment of harm, tobacco and

alcohol would be ranked as more harmful than LSD and ecstasy (both Class A drugs).211

The Runciman report also stated that, on the basis of harm, “alcohol would be classed as B

bordering on A, while cigarettes would probably be in the borderline between B and C”.212

Various memoranda argued that the exclusion of tobacco and alcohol from the

classification system was an anomaly. Transform Drug Policy Foundation told us: “It is this

omission from the classification system that, perhaps more than any other, truly lays bare

its fundamental lack of consistency, reasoning or evidence base” on the grounds that

together tobacco and alcohol cause “approximately 40 times the total number of deaths

from all illegal drugs combined”.213 In our view, it would be unfeasible to expect a

penalty-linked classification system to include tobacco and alcohol but there would be

merit in including them in a more scientific scale, decoupled from penalties, to give the

public a better sense of the relative harms involved."

 

You can read the whole thing here: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/c...h/1031/1031.pdf

 

It's worth skimming at least, especially the graph at the end where all the drugs are ranked. Ecstacy is the third LEAST dangerous. Alcohol the fifth MOST dangerous.

Edited by WebSwim
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You know what will happen - your daughters may take drugs, have a good night dancing away, give a few people hugs, have a few deep and meaningfuls with someone they have just met and not get much sleep.

 

307862[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

This is essentially my experience.

What I don't understand is why nobody talks about the next day when you're incapable of doing anything. The comedown leaves me in almost a vegetative state and is so off putting, even depressing, that I have absolutely no interest in getting back on the gear the next time I'm offered a pill.

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You know what will happen - your daughters may take drugs, have a good night dancing away, give a few people hugs, have a few deep and meaningfuls with someone they have just met and not get much sleep.

 

307862[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

This is essentially my experience.

What I don't understand is why nobody talks about the next day when you're incapable of doing anything. The comedown leaves me in almost a vegetative state and is so off putting, even depressing, that I have absolutely no interest in getting back on the gear the next time I'm offered a pill.

 

307901[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

 

Gundy have you tried an E or equivilent? Who here has popped the occasional eccy or again the euquivilent.

 

I had a friend that got right into speed a few years ago and it almost totally scewed up her life. Ended up haveing to move away from her home town and distance herself from everyone and everything she knew to try and get back to normal.

 

Have also watched my sister crawl her way through a drug f-ked mess, but even know years later she is still irrational a lot of the time.

 

R

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It's worth skimming at least, especially the graph at the end where all the drugs are ranked. Ecstacy is the third LEAST dangerous. Alcohol the fifth MOST dangerous.

 

307890[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Whilst i take that info on board and do partially agree...the data is somewhat skewed...

 

There's a reason commodores are the most stolen car in Australia, and it's got nothing to do with them being foolly sick awesome road-going machines.... :lol:

 

It's just coz they're at saturation point...

 

Similarly with alcohol and tobacco consumption, naturally incidences of negative endpoints are going to be achieved at a much higher rate over substances which have a greatly lessened <a> presence and availability in the community, and <b> actual use.

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E, speed, Coke. I gave them all a go a couple of times and had fun while I was doing it. However the comedowns and seeing a couple of bad experiences for other people turned me off ever doing it on a more regular basis.

 

I've seen also seen what smoking weed can do to someone i.e. nervous breakdown prior to the onset of schizophrenia (sp??).

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Similarly with alcohol and tobacco consumption, naturally incidences of negative endpoints are going to be achieved at a much higher rate over substances which have a greatly lessened <a> presence and availability in the community, and <b> actual use.

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly, but if you're a parent worrying about what is going to happen to your kids, the fact that pills are less widespread than alcohol should definitely be factored into the equation.

 

It's pretty much guaranteed that every child is going to get drunk enough to spew his/her guts up at least once. It's far from guaranteed that they'll even try a pill.

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but even know years later she is still irrational a lot of the time.

 

 

 

Baby she's got a lot of sisters out there :lol::lol::D

 

she is still irrational a lot of the time.

 

she is still irrational a lot of the time.

 

she is still irrational a lot of the time.

 

she is still irrational a lot of the time.

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But you are taking risks with getting something made in a backyard Lab. Aren't you?

 

 

Not really. There's plenty of the stuff to go around, and word gets out very fast on any batch that's even slightly dodgy.

 

307887[/snapback]

 

 

 

So how does it work then. Do the guys who make the pills write their name on it? How do you know your taking the "good" stuff and not the ajax/omo pill the guy is selling off as the good stuff?

 

These guys would be less than trustworthy if I am not mistaken.

 

As you can tell I am not heavily into the drug scene. Well, the misuse or illegal drug scene anyway. I personally know one bloke for sure who has used these "harmless" amphetamines to party with. I was involved in his resuscitation after he attempted suicide one day. 100% from my viewpoint. He has clinical depression. Which came first. Not a risk I could be bothered taking.

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So how does it work then.  Do the guys who make the pills write their name on it?  How do you know your taking the "good" stuff and not the ajax/omo pill the guy is selling off as the good stuff? 

 

These guys would be less than trustworthy if I am not mistaken. 

 

 

307923[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

The pills usually have some sort of symbol on them eg: the Mitsubishi logo.

But if you aren't a regular in the scene or 'in the know' most people would rely on someone (quite possibly a stranger) telling them that this is the good stuff.

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So how does it work then.  Do the guys who make the pills write their name on it?  How do you know your taking the "good" stuff and not the ajax/omo pill the guy is selling off as the good stuff? 

 

 

First of all, you'd almost never walk up to a random and buy stuff. You'd usually buy from a mate, who'd buy from his mate, all the way back up the chain. Now your mate is invariably buying for himself and a couple of mates, so he has a vested interest in ensuring he has a decent quality, reliable supply.

 

Also, if someone's going to 'water down' the pills, they're almost certainly not going to use rat poison when they can use sugar, or something harmless instead.

 

Most pills usually have some sort of logo, though it's not a guarantee of manufacture or anything :lol: What normally happens is that a good batch gets imported, word gets out that a particular logo are good, then the locals start knocking up cheaper rip-offs containing less MDMA.

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  • 12 years later...

My daughter is down at schoolies at the moment.  She said they're been offered so much stuff it's crazy!  I guess with so much of the organised stuff being alcohol free now days..... Just watched a news story about it, and they said the market in Australia is huge, and a massive money maker.  They were saying people here will pay $20 for one ecstasy pill, where they're going for 20c in Holland!

I knew these drugs were cheap, but I didn't think that cheap ($20), let alone 20c in some countries!  No wonder it's such a problem!

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6 minutes ago, zed said:

People that are happy, healthy, positive people with a stable background, no mental health issues etc are most likely not going to develop a drug habit.

Is this where you tell me your mate's daughter went to private school, was a straight A student and still ended up a drug addict?  Note, a straight A student from a wealthy family does not equate to being happy. 

 


 

So you are saying that a substance that is very addictive and supposedly feels very good is not going to be a problem for someone with addictive traits?

You could also say that someone who is happy, healthy and positive with a stable background wouldn't try drugs in the first place?

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15 minutes ago, zed said:

Is this where you tell me your mate's daughter went to private school, was a straight A student and still ended up a drug addict?  Note, a straight A student from a wealthy family does not equate to being happy. 

 


 

I never said anything about wealth and success equating to happiness...I said one word - "What?" - so no need to try and back pedal on the defensive and preempt arguments no-one would make.

We are allowed to have different opinions but what you wrote originally:

39 minutes ago, zed said:

And that's why drugs aren't a threat for healthy, happy kids.

Will be the dumbest thing I read on the internet today. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Horowitz said:

 

Will be the dumbest thing I read on the internet today. 

 

 

You want to expand on that? You know a bit about this topic do you? 

Edited by zed
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13 minutes ago, zed said:

People that are happy, healthy, positive people with a stable background, no mental health issues etc are most likely not going to develop a drug habit.
 

Not always, but most of the time, people that take highly addictive drugs like meth have followed a similar path, smoked weed, then tried a few pills, then coke/speed and finally meth. A journey generally not followed by happy, healthy, positive people with a stable background and no mental health issues. It would be rare for a teenager's first foray into taking drugs, for it to be crack, especially when it's $500/gram. Last I heard McDonalds still paid $13/hour...

Note - I would include addictive personality in mental health issues. 

so are you saying these mythical unicorn people wont do any drugs (and start down the path you outlined) or that will start but they wont progress past the first steps on your drug ladder..?

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Quote

Don't hide your opinions behind childish insults. Lets hear your thoughts on the matter.

 

You clearly have something going on and want to get into an argument online (you've gone back and edited your posts over 10 times now adding and adding things) and to be honest, I have better things to do on a Friday afternoon.

I gave you my opinion and that is that.

 

How about you open some research articles and have a look at the statistics because this;

 

1 hour ago, zed said:

How many people, without pre-existing health conditions, have dropped dead from dodgy ecstasy tablets, 2, 3 globally? 

 

Shows that you have no grasp on the subject whatsoever. 

 

I understand we live in an age where anyone can say anything online without it being backed up and without citing any sources, and often enough if they say it confidently enough it will be believed.

 

Sorry, but I am a firm believer it needs to be called out as bullshit when it happens or there will soon be no coming back.

 

mdma risk of trying.png

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29 minutes ago, Horowitz said:

 

You clearly have something going on and want to get into an argument online (you've gone back and edited your posts over 10 times now adding and adding things) and to be honest, I have better things to do on a Friday afternoon.

 

 

 

 

 

I also have better things to do on a Friday afternoon and get too frustrated with this topic. I'll leave it at that. 

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2 hours ago, zed said:

Exactly. Pillreports.com is very good, accurate and uptodate. If you really want to be anally retentive, get the pills from your mate who has taken them and can guarantee them. How many people, without pre-existing health conditions, have dropped dead from dodgy ecstasy tablets, 2, 3 globally? 

Hot tipS for your kids who may want to experiment, even if they deny it:

 

1. make sure someone else is the lab rat. Watch them take whatever it is that is going around and wait at least 20 minutes before you even think of taking it.

2. Whatever you do, don’t travel with it to a venue. preload.

3. designed sober companions are essential.

4. don’t be afraid to seek immediate help if it starts to go south; and

5. Make sure that they know that you will have their back and won’t be overly judgmental BUT that they can always call you in an emergency.

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