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Vassilis

High heart rates

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Hi all

 

I would like to share with you what happens when I run, and see if anyone else experiences something similar. I have done (not run!) one marathon and several half-marathons. I don't claim that I am a good runner but I can run a half-marathon just below 2:00. Irrespectively on the distance, I always enter the "red zone" (anaerobic zone, using GARMIN) quite soon after I start running even at slow paces (6:30 min/km or even slower). This makes my training very difficult. I have tried various different approaches over the years but nothing seems to work. I have been to a cardiologist and everything is fine.

Does anyone else experience something similar and how do you go about it?

Thanks

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Short answer is: No I do not experience that problem.  But I have coached LOTS of athletes who do their 'easy' runs way too fast.

Based on the Jack Daniels Running Formula, the easy run pace for someone who does a Half Marathon in 2 hours is 6m27s to 7m05s per km pace.  So I would start by slowing your runs down to 7 min per km pace and see if your heart rate behaves better at this pace.  Over time you should be able to slowly increase your speed for the same heart rate.

I also suggest walking for 30 secs each time your HR starts to get too high.  Again, over time your body should adapt and no longer require the walking breaks.

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Assuming that all is well with you from a health point of view, it could be that you have a small stroke volume and your body's way of pumping blood around to satisfy the needs, is to pump itself faster. That's the very simplistic answer.

I know myself, as I get fitter or deeper into a training block, my HR doesn't come down for a given effort, but I feel a lot more comfortable at those higher HRs.

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Thanks guys, I measure HR with a chest strap (Garmin DUAL) and the zones are set according to my Lactate Threshold (calculated by GARMIN algorithms). My max HR is 190-192 bpm and I am 42 yo.

I run for about 4 years but not consistently, meaning that I start and stop training deepening on life circumstances. 

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15 minutes ago, Limited said:

How are you measuring your HR and how did you set your zones?

This. Your zones could be out of whack if you go by 220 - age. That's pretty crude. I end up with 172, way off my max HR of 186. Try using 210-[.5 x Age] .

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2 minutes ago, Vassilis said:

Thanks guys, I measure HR with a chest strap (Garmin DUAL) and the zones are set according to my Lactate Threshold (calculated by GARMIN algorithms). My max HR is 190-192 bpm and I am 42 yo.

I run for about 4 years but not consistently, meaning that I start and stop training deepening on life circumstances. 

What is your HR for a 6.30/easy run?

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Is there any relationship between height and heart rate for the same pace? Do taller people need higher bpm to push the blood to the brain and circulate it around the body? I am 1.86 m.

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1 minute ago, zed said:

What is your HR for a 6.30/easy run?

It fluctuates in the 150 bpm in the first 2-3 km (depending on the day). Then after the 4-5 km goes to 170 bpm and never drops below. If I go faster (like 5:30 min/km) it goes to 180 bpm almost immediately. Not good.

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Maybe throw away the Garmin. Your cardiologist says your fine. Don’t read into it (your Garmin data) too much as we are all different.

There are guys in the TdF who have resting heart rate of 30 and others who have a resting heart rate of 70. It clearly matters not.

If you start blanking out then start worrying.

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7 minutes ago, Vassilis said:

It fluctuates in the 150 bpm in the first 2-3 km (depending on the day). Then after the 4-5 km goes to 170 bpm and never drops below. If I go faster (like 5:30 min/km) it goes to 180 bpm almost immediately. Not good.

I'd have to check my data, but that sounds close to my HR. On a warm day and on an easy run, my HR can be quite high. 

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A recent 18km easy run, my pace was 5min/km and average HR was 164. My HR very quickly went up to 150s, after 2km, although the pace did quicken. I use a strap which is accurate and consistent. The laps below are every 500m. I was running with a friend and she is the same pace as me for running and triathlon, her HR was 130s. I think it's hugely dependant on the individual. 

 

 

 

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Edited by zed
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8 minutes ago, zed said:

A recent 18km easy run, my pace was 5min/km and average HR was 164. My HR very quickly went up to 150s, after 2km, although the pace did quicken. I use a strap which is accurate and consistent. The laps below are every 500m. I was running with a friend and she is the same pace as me for running and triathlon, her HR was 130s. I think it's hugely dependant on the individual. 

 

 

 

Untitled.png

But, in my understanding, if you enter in your threshold zone (which it seems that you have) the run is not classed as "easy" anymore. It is "tempo". Isn't it? So after about 5 km you start straining your heart to achieve the "easy" pace i.e., it is not easy anymore. What do you think?

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1 minute ago, Vassilis said:

But, in my understanding, if you enter in your threshold zone (which it seems that you have) the run is not classed as "easy" anymore. It is "tempo". Isn't it? So after about 5 km you start straining your heart to achieve the "easy" pace i.e., it is not easy anymore. What do you think?

my easy pace is supposed to be 5.10 - 5.40, so this was a little quicker. It's hard to go on HR as mine is hugely dependant on a number of factors. It goes very high if it's warm/humid. I think for me to run in zone 2 on a hot day I' reckon I'd be doing something like 7min/km. 

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Sounds like the hr is right. If you were using wrist based they can sometimes get influenced by your cadence. How do you feel? Does your easy pace feel easy. Can you have a conversation and breathing every few steps?

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7 minutes ago, Limited said:

Sounds like the hr is right. If you were using wrist based they can sometimes get influenced by your cadence. How do you feel? Does your easy pace feel easy. Can you have a conversation and breathing every few steps?

Definitely not a conversation. I am not panting either though. This should mean that I am in the threshold zone of my ability.

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Does it start high then style down after a while ? This happens to me occasionally. I take s wile to warm up and occasionally it shoots up the first few minutes. If this happens, I walk/ jog for around a km then it settles. It does drop dramatically - from 160 down to 110. 

FM

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4 hours ago, Vassilis said:

Hi all

 

I would like to share with you what happens when I run, and see if anyone else experiences something similar. I have done (not run!) one marathon and several half-marathons. I don't claim that I am a good runner but I can run a half-marathon just below 2:00. Irrespectively on the distance, I always enter the "red zone" (anaerobic zone, using GARMIN) quite soon after I start running even at slow paces (6:30 min/km or even slower). This makes my training very difficult. I have tried various different approaches over the years but nothing seems to work. I have been to a cardiologist and everything is fine.

Does anyone else experience something similar and how do you go about it?

Thanks

Silly question...has it read that high using multiple different monitors/straps?

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Yes, but how do you FEEL when all this is going on.  Heart rate is such an independent, personal thing it should only ever be compared n the broadest of terms.  You need to work out your OWN zones and much of this will be from your own experience, not what Garmin tells you.  What is your pace on an easy 5k, a firm 5k and a flat out 5k (especially with a kick-ass hill in it)? Get a guide on it from that.

From what you say I tend to think that you have an atypically small stroke volume (nothing wrong with that) and you don't really know how to pace yourself, ie a one-speed runner.   

Then again, you could be suffering from a cardiac condition, eg arrhythmia that is only brought on during exercise. In this case you can get a 24 hour wearable ECG and during the run press the marker button when anything unusual happens - the cardiologist can then see what is happening "in the moment" 

Then again, I have no qualifications in any of this so take all that with a pinch of salt 'cos it's probably something else! :)

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I'd be curious to see what H/R was after a walk, just to see if you naturally have a high H/R. As pointed out before some people just rev high.

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