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So a trip to Woolies is OK, because Woolies sells essential items. If all I buy when I'm there is a t-shirt, is that deemed now as non-essential travel?

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9 minutes ago, -- AJ -- said:

While police are fining people for non-essential travel and group activities let me suggest a few people that could be fined.  Now determining what is essential and non-essential is (in my view) extremely subjective.  In my view essential means that there is no other option. 

So the following people should be fined as the following activities are (according to my definition) non-essential

Anybody who has holds or attends an interview outdoors. e.g. Politicians, Police Commissioners,  Reporters.  No reason at all for these people to be  travelling,  outdoors or in a group situation purely for the purpose of an interview.   if the rest of us have to resort to virtual meetings then these people should set an example and do the same.  

Reporters doing their 15sec piece to camera in front of some outside location.  Whether they are there or not there doesn't add anything to the story.

AJ

Very valid points!!

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1 minute ago, more said:

Very valid points!!

Shhh you'll destroy my reputation of talking crap

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28 minutes ago, Peter said:

Well I was in the cbd today in melbourne and let me tell you, the construction Industry are doing nothing to slow or stop the virus. The southern cross stairs at Bourke street was full of tradies. Probably over 100 all sitting next to each other. 
 

I find it fascinating that as soon as its hot Or wet, they are tools down. But a virus killing people, nah we will keep working. 
 

guessing if they stop work they won’t get paid unlike if its wet Or hot. 
 

oh to be a tradie to be unable to catch corona virus. 

Im working on a medium sized commercial construction project (local government) in Sydney and the head contractor is taking precautions pretty seriously.

Lunch shed that had 16 people in them before now are limited to 4

People encourage to wear masks.

Funny to watch the site foreman and other trades looking over plans.

First one points things out, steps back and then the other guy has a go.

Ive got social distancing down pat. My machines are damn loud so everyone just stays away from me. Ive got almost 300 sqm to myself

Biggest issue is people are still filthy pigs. Some people still spitting on site and masks and gloves being disposed over everywhere.

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18 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

So a trip to Woolies is OK, because Woolies sells essential items. If all I buy when I'm there is a t-shirt, is that deemed now as non-essential travel?

I'm not sure what is going on in other states, but since shopping centres and retail are still open for business surely you can legally go buy whatever you feel like? (not saying you should, just that you can?)

 I don't understand how people are being fined for driving their cars. How is that a danger to public health?

 I thought Victoria was the nanny state of the nation but it looks like our eastern seaboard friends are bringing back the competition!

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The future of air travel? 
 

this is why kona won’t happen in my opinion. 
 

this will be the process before everything is back to normal again 

 

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Woolies and coles have started limiting the number of people allowed in store today as well.

About time considering Aldi has been doing it for at least a couple of weeks

Mrs still says that Woolies is gearing up to ban people in store and force everyone to either get home delivery or pick up only

I guess that means that the powers that be think that this all some way to go and things are going to get worse before it gets better and back to something resembling normal

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2 minutes ago, Peter said:

The future of air travel? 
 

this is why kona won’t happen in my opinion. 
 

this will be the process before everything is back to normal again 

 

That's pretty legit.

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26 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

So a trip to Woolies is OK, because Woolies sells essential items. If all I buy when I'm there is a t-shirt, is that deemed now as non-essential travel?

A lot of shops in the UK are cordoning off the 'non essential' items but I guess it comes down to definition.

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I can't see sporting events having any remote chance of happening until deep into 2021. Exceptions would be those in full lockdown quarantine for the duration of the "season".

I'd say the sort of sport that could happen is something like Japanese Keirin racing, where the riders already operate in a form of lock down quarantine already (for betting security/integrity reasons).

Expecting multiple NRL / AFL squads to cope with a lengthly quarantine/lockdown together is absurd. It'd be like the meth lab construction crew in Season 4 of Better Call Saul. It won't end well.

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22 minutes ago, dazaau said:

I'm not sure what is going on in other states, but since shopping centres and retail are still open for business surely you can legally go buy whatever you feel like? (not saying you should, just that you can?)

 I don't understand how people are being fined for driving their cars. How is that a danger to public health?

 I thought Victoria was the nanny state of the nation but it looks like our eastern seaboard friends are bringing back the competition!

Oh good, it's ok!

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/too-far-from-home-teen-driver-fined-for-driving-lesson-with-her-mum-20200406-p54hhe.html

 

We ARE the Nanny state after all. Back to normal then. 

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30 minutes ago, Alex Simmons said:

I can't see sporting events having any remote chance of happening until deep into 2021. Exceptions would be those in full lockdown quarantine for the duration of the "season".

I'd say the sort of sport that could happen is something like Japanese Keirin racing, where the riders already operate in a form of lock down quarantine already (for betting security/integrity reasons).

Expecting multiple NRL / AFL squads to cope with a lengthly quarantine/lockdown together is absurd. It'd be like the meth lab construction crew in Season 4 of Better Call Saul. It won't end well.

Putting aside your points about players being in quarantine, is there any sport with as prime an opportunity for covid transmission than the front row of a league/rugby scrum?

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Certainty and consistency are two things which are needed in the current environment to bring about proper social distancing and the more strict blocks needed to prevent spreading infection.

Unfortunately there are two things that make that difficult.  Our federated system of states where its actually the states which make the relevant regulations, each of which has different needs and therefore make different regulations leading to confusion.  The second is that very libertarian desire to find a bloody loophole wherever you can, if it suits your own benefit and desire.

 

 

Tick, tick, tick ........

Edited by lawman

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Just for relativity - NZ overtook Australia today on number of cases per million population. Both of us are doing great but let’s not be too hard on ourselves as Aussies. 

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6 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I take these stats with a grain of salt. They are only across 500 deaths (it'd be interesting to see what it looks like across 50,000 deaths), and more importantly, what effect age has across these grouping. The older age groups are going to be represented much more in those with a "pre-existing conditions" and so age is likely to be the determining factor.

You need to look at a data set large enough that you can compare a few thousand 40-50 year olds with various underlying health issues and compare the mortality rate, then a few thousand 50 -60 year olds and do the same thing. Only then will you know what effect these have on Survival rates independent of age..

While there are "only" 500 deaths the data covers 21,000* people diagnosed with coronaviris. This data subset includes the data from ~4500, 50-60 year olds. The data set is large enough that the rates will be indicative. Hopefully the raw data behind the report is available to be fed into the predictive models being created.

*The entire data set is 72K people. The comorbid was only recorded for 21K people.

http://www.ourphn.org.au/wp-content/uploads/20200225-Article-COVID-19.pdf

 

image.png.b8ebf2e24919a3db4884d648eaef81cc.png

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17 minutes ago, truck said:

This is just ludicrous. There will be long term damage from this type of behaviour. 

Nsw police just confirmed that learning to drive is acceptable. 

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15 minutes ago, Ironnerd said:

While there are "only" 500 deaths the data covers 21,000* people diagnosed with coronaviris. This data subset includes the data from ~4500, 50-60 year olds. The data set is large enough that the rates will be indicative. Hopefully the raw data behind the report is available to be fed into the predictive models being created.

*The entire data set is 72K people. The comorbid was only recorded for 21K people.

http://www.ourphn.org.au/wp-content/uploads/20200225-Article-COVID-19.pdf

 

image.png.b8ebf2e24919a3db4884d648eaef81cc.png

But it doesn't consider the relationship between age & comorbid condition (or I couldn't find it in there). Is it a case of older people are more likely to die (and older people have more "health issues"), or is it that people with "health issues" are more likely to die, and most of these are old?

Whilst they undoubtedly both contribute, you would need a much larger study to fully understand whether age or health issues are the biggest factor, and by how much.

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People getting fined & moved in for a variety of reasons. 
BUT, I just saw the official QLD ad that says “Stay home when you can”

What does that mean?!

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3 minutes ago, Tyno said:

People getting fined & moved in for a variety of reasons. 
BUT, I just saw the official QLD ad that says “Stay home when you can”

What does that mean?!

it simply means only go out if it is essential for you to do so. 

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41 minutes ago, roxii said:

Nsw police just confirmed that learning to drive is acceptable. 

My friend's daughter has completed all her hours but now can't do the test to get her licence.  

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Just now, -H- said:

My friend's daughter has completed all her hours but now can't do the test to get her licence.  

My son is the same. He had his test booked for last week & it got cancelled. :(

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23 minutes ago, Prince said:

it simply means only go out if it is essential for you to do so. 

But it doesn’t say that. 

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39 minutes ago, Tyno said:

People getting fined & moved in for a variety of reasons. 
BUT, I just saw the official QLD ad that says “Stay home when you can”

What does that mean?!

It means stay in your Principle place of residence 24*7 till you go completely and utterly psycho and then we'll come in a white rubber van and take you away.

 

If there going to be 6+ months of this then things are going to have to change.  The masses will start to rebel if this hardline approach isn't sensibly softened soon.

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A colleague of mind is behaving strangely. Is normally a private woman, who has a couple of kids and happily married. She isn't working from home. All of a sudden she is posting regularly on social media, anything from a simple cup of coffee to a kid farting. 

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2 hours ago, Paul Every said:

Putting aside your points about players being in quarantine, is there any sport with as prime an opportunity for covid transmission than the front row of a league/rugby scrum?

Oh it's a terribly transmissive environment, as is the game in general.

There only has to be one slip through the net and it matters not how it gets there, be it via a footballer transgressing (which is inevitable given the personalities involved) or via supplies, people entering the venue for deliveries, staff that rotate in etc.

I question the ethics of tying up such a valuable resource of a venue which can truly be an effective quarantine zone, with all the supplies and medical facilities and medical personnel to support a dozen+ football teams and staff. Surely there are better uses for those resources, facilities and people.

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28 minutes ago, -- AJ -- said:

It means stay in your Principle place of residence 24*7 till you go completely and utterly psycho and then we'll come in a white rubber van and take you away.

 

If there going to be 6+ months of this then things are going to have to change.  The masses will start to rebel if this hardline approach isn't sensibly softened soon.

Already getting some feelings of rebellion down this way - locals are really pissed with Dan the man banning everything.  Fine to do that in some quarters, but no fishing?  Where I am, like CN and others, we can travel less than half an hour to great fishing spots, fish on our own and not see anyone.  Good for the mental health, good to get the kids out and keep them from going stir crazy, but no, got to ban everything - common sense included

Thank god getting firewood is an essential need. Still get to go into the bush - 3 trips the weekend before last and not a soul seen or heard.  First time my kids have been fighting to go with me and do some work

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9 minutes ago, Cottoneyes said:

Already getting some feelings of rebellion down this way - locals are really pissed with Dan the man banning everything.  Fine to do that in some quarters, but no fishing?  Where I am, like CN and others, we can travel less than half an hour to great fishing spots, fish on our own and not see anyone.  Good for the mental health, good to get the kids out and keep them from going stir crazy, but no, got to ban everything - common sense included

Thank god getting firewood is an essential need. Still get to go into the bush - 3 trips the weekend before last and not a soul seen or heard.  First time my kids have been fighting to go with me and do some work

Same here. Our family have a farm and were planning to take the kids there camping this weekend-total isolation and zero risk of coming withing 10km's of anyone, yet I can be fined $1,600 for driving there?? What a complete and utter load of bullsh!t.

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Ive hidden a few posts here as they were a bit out of context.

Please let’s not make this one personal.

 

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I'll gladly give you perspective TC, when can you pick up the kids?  😂

It's one thing to have to remain in the home for a good reason - no doubt about that.  All we're asking for is a bit of common sense.  Putting the same rules in where there are 100,000 people per square kilometre is overkill when there is 100 people per square kilometre.  For the most part we already do our own social isolation - it's why most of us live here. 

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1 minute ago, Cottoneyes said:

I'll gladly give you perspective TC, when can you pick up the kids?  😂

It's one thing to have to remain in the home for a good reason - no doubt about that.  All we're asking for is a bit of common sense.  Putting the same rules in where there are 100,000 people per square kilometre is overkill when there is 100 people per square kilometre.  For the most part we already do our own social isolation - it's why most of us live here. 

Careful cotton eyes, you aren't allowed to disagree with the protected one..I said basically the same thing and she reported my post and had it deleted..

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Yup, it's much easier being out here in the country than for our kids in Sydney.  TBH my life has hardly changed at all.  I can fish, ride the bikes, walk/run, tie flies and build models easily within the rules.  The person density is wonderfully low out here....which is why we choose to live here.

Biggest thing I miss is swimming.  Need a friend with a pool who does not use it & I'll buy one of those swim tethers.  Will be wetsuit time soon here though.

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2 hours ago, -- AJ -- said:

It means stay in your Principle place of residence 24*7 till you go completely and utterly psycho and then we'll come in a white rubber van and take you away.

 

If there going to be 6+ months of this then things are going to have to change.  The masses will start to rebel if this hardline approach isn't sensibly softened soon.

 

Maybe if the masses followed the guidelines instead of thinking it doesn't apply to them then the state wouldn't have to be so harsh.

 

It is easy for me to say, this lifestyle suits me pretty well and I am happy to tow the line, but some people are just taking the piss with the way they are treating the guidelines.  If people actually used 'common sense', which doesn't exist then there would be no need to ban so much.

 

If fishing is allowed you can guarantee groups will meet up on the bank, camping allowed, then camp sites will merge.  Allow golf and there will be 4 together not distancing.  Look at the people still riding together.

 

I am happy to have 6 months of restrictions if it means 10 more families don't have to put a body in the ground.

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1 hour ago, more said:

Same here. Our family have a farm and were planning to take the kids there camping this weekend-total isolation and zero risk of coming withing 10km's of anyone, yet I can be fined $1,600 for driving there?? What a complete and utter load of bullsh!t.

Just leave your mobiles at home or turn them off and only turn on in an emergency.

 

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2 hours ago, more said:

Same here. Our family have a farm and were planning to take the kids there camping this weekend-total isolation and zero risk of coming withing 10km's of anyone, yet I can be fined $1,600 for driving there?? What a complete and utter load of bullsh!t.

Not if your checking the livestock.... 

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4 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

But it doesn't consider the relationship between age & comorbid condition (or I couldn't find it in there). Is it a case of older people are more likely to die (and older people have more "health issues"), or is it that people with "health issues" are more likely to die, and most of these are old?

Whilst they undoubtedly both contribute, you would need a much larger study to fully understand whether age or health issues are the biggest factor, and by how much.

It is currently the largest data set available that contains comorbid information. Hopefully the complete raw anonymised data set is available to researchers the world over. With access to the raw data you can answer the types of questions that you are asking.

The raw data that all of the popular websites rely on has been aggregated by John Hopkins Uni. You can download the data and analyse it using Excel. Note it does not have comorbid information, but it does have age information.

https://www.kaggle.com/sudalairajkumar/novel-corona-virus-2019-dataset

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1 hour ago, The Customer said:

Isn't the state the of the environment and the spread of virus's such as Covid19 largely due to the over-population of human beings and yet people who choose not to have children are frequently judged - like it's everyone's business! I would suggest if you are struggling with the idea of spending time with your children you should find ways to deal with it - it was a choice you made in life.

Yes it is, NYC is proving that right now. Too many people in one place too close together, insert one virus with endless supply of hosts, bam.

We live in a made up economic system which needs endless people to keep having more people to grow the economy. Two weeks into a holiday the whole economic system blew up and to fix it we had to do all the health and welfare stuff people have banged on about for years.

I have children, I am their teacher, leader, hero/villain and best friend. This situation has been hard, but the time I spend with them has made us closer than we ever were in the pay for them to be in day care, rush around so I can buy them stuff they don't need when all they want is time with me.

We are faced this week with their grandparent in coma, likely not to come out of it because if CV. Staying at home with your kids is not such a huge sacrifice.

 

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Thanks BB. It's unfathomable to me that people are complaining about having to spend time with their children or that the elderly are merely collateral damage and that younger people shouldn't have to adjust their lives because of the vulnerable.

I wish the best for their grandparent.

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4 minutes ago, The Customer said:

Thanks BB. It's unfathomable to me that people are complaining about having to spend time with their children or that the elderly are merely collateral damage and that younger people shouldn't have to adjust their lives because of the vulnerable.

I wish the best for their grandparent.

Agree, they are our kids and we should love to be with them. Complaining about having to adjust live for what has been a few weeks is not a big ask. We do it so people don't die, we do it so our helath system is not overwhelmed.

It is not about us our triathlons, our bars and personal freedoms, for those who think our mental health from having to sit in relative comfort and be allowed to exercise individually is more important, ponder this:

our leaders are shit scared we will overwhelm our health care system and we will be back in an age equivalent to pre antibiotics for the first time since WW II for a six month period and that is seriously worth doing something to try and prevent.

It looks like this:

https://virus.stanford.edu/uda/

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Have you seen BoJo has been taken to hospital for tests? He's not getting well. Hoping this will be a humbling experience for him although I imagine they won't put him in a public ward 🙄

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13 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Agree, they are our kids and we should love to be with them. Complaining about having to adjust live for what has been a few weeks is not a big ask. We do it so people don't die, we do it so our helath system is not overwhelmed.

It is not about us our triathlons, our bars and personal freedoms, for those who think our mental health from having to sit in relative comfort and be allowed to exercise individually is more important, ponder this:

our leaders are shit scared we will overwhelm our health care system and we will be back in an age equivalent to pre antibiotics for the first time since WW II for a six month period and that is seriously worth doing something to try and prevent.

It looks like this:

https://virus.stanford.edu/uda/

I haven't heard of a single person not loving being around their kids. The issue is they are stuck inside all day essentially, and playgrounds are banned. I can't even take them for a drive in the car, that is insane. 

It's easy for people who don't have kids to make comment when they have no idea what they are talking about.. 

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Well no one knows the true numbers, tests are focussed on those with symptoms, medical and essential services. We know about those who are sick enough or essential enough to test and that's it.

What we do know are the lag indicators, death, cases, the last few days offered a flattening, and every political leader regardless of side jumped on that number.

"we will overwhelm our health care system and we will be back in an age equivalent to pre antibiotics for the first time since WW II for a six month period and that is seriously worth doing something to try and prevent.:

This is what we are trying to avoid. The car ride sounds great. This has been hard on the children, but they will adapt and survive. CV needs hosts, if we starve it of hosts we can start to understand where it is geographically and treat those areas.

Australia is dong the right thing, with the curve flattened and factors playing in Australias favor they can control the spread and apply localized strategies as they won't be at risk of over running the health system.

The USA, Italy etc are trying to stop a 1918 tidal wave.

 

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6 hours ago, The Customer said:

Have you seen BoJo has been taken to hospital for tests? He's not getting well. Hoping this will be a humbling experience for him although I imagine they won't put him in a public ward 🙄

Of course it was "just as a precaution"....but he's now been moved to intensive care as his condition has worsened

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6 hours ago, The Customer said:

Have you seen BoJo has been taken to hospital for tests? He's not getting well. Hoping this will be a humbling experience for him although I imagine they won't put him in a public ward 🙄

Wow...

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For me, the whole thing is a somewhat liberating, though compared to people in cities, it's not too much of an inconvenience for us as self-isolating but still doing our hobbies/exercise is easily possible & our kids have left home.  The poor little buggers are hunkered down in Corona-Central (Sydney), but seem to be going OK getting out for regular walks/runs (the eldest is actually doing 2 walks a day - unheard of!). Both WFH and both still have jobs for now.

Liberating because the shit has really hit the fan & we have been made to look at they way we live, will likely come out the other side more or less in one piece, but maybe with a better grip on what really matters.....though I fear that lesson will quickly be forgotten as people jump back on the hamster wheel of servicing their crazy debt levels.

Also liberating because I don't have to go to the office and listen to the banal shit of a colleague who is "always just so busy, she has to spend hours disturbing everyone else making sure they know just how busy she is".  I could really get used to this WFH gig!

We will do a Messenger Video brunch with our girls & their partners over Easter.

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1 hour ago, -H- said:

Of course it was "just as a precaution"....but he's now been moved to intensive care as his condition has worsened

I know someone working in the ICU unit where Bojo is. I just heard that he is in worse condition than they are letting on and he might be ventilated at over night. He's at high risk because he's overweight and unfit. They have him faced down to help get air in his lungs.

The Scottish Gov also stood the Health Minister down today because she left her home in Edi to visit her holiday home in Fife. Sturgeon has been the picture of diplomacy through all of this. I really rate her.

Edited by The Customer

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23 minutes ago, The Customer said:

I know someone working in the ICU unit where Bojo is. I just heard that he is in worse condition than they are letting on and it's likely that he'll be intubated at some point tonight. He's at high risk because he's overweight and unfit. They have him faced down to help get air in his lungs.

The Scottish Gov also stood the Health Minister down today because she left her home in Edi to visit her holiday home in Fife. Sturgeon has been the picture of diplomacy through all of this. I really rate her.

Who goes on holiday in Fife, I'm from Kirkcaldy and even I don't like going there

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