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Mike Honcho

The Secret to sub 10

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Not sure what those numbers represent but I’ll go with weekly volume of 10km swim, 275km bike and 60km run. 
yep, 1-2 years of that and you would be ‘close’ to your potential. 10km swimming = 3.5 hours, 275km bike = 10 hours, 60km running = 5 hours. = 18.5 hours per week. 
I’d drop running 1 hour and drop 2 hours of bike and I think you are still 98% there and back to the magical 15 hour per week discussion. 
 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Simple. Just do it before you get a wife & kids. ;)

Yep. You know know how much spare time you really have until you have a partner and then kids.  

Fark if I only knew.  

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4 hours ago, Bosco said:

Not sure what those numbers represent but I’ll go with weekly volume of 10km swim, 275km bike and 60km run. 
yep, 1-2 years of that and you would be ‘close’ to your potential. 10km swimming = 3.5 hours, 275km bike = 10 hours, 60km running = 5 hours. = 18.5 hours per week. 
I’d drop running 1 hour and drop 2 hours of bike and I think you are still 98% there and back to the magical 15 hour per week discussion. 

They are rough volumes and balance you would be looking at for the last 8 to 12 weeks.  But you need to be able to complete these distances without getting injured or overly sore.

Earlier in the season I would advise having focus in each discipline that is higher than the numbers quoted above. Example 3 weeks of 15km swimming, during which you may be only riding 150 - 200km and running 30 - 40km.  3 weeks of riding over 300km, again with less swimming and running.

You need to be pretty comfortable with the weekly mileage for each individual discipline before combining them together. If you haven't been able to post consecutive 60km running weeks without any soreness before your Ironman block, it is not going to magically happen with the extra fatigue, stiffness,etc from the long bike and swim mileage.

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So, from those who have built similar weeks, what did the week look like to get ~ the totals?

Just curious what the structure of the week would be.

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I have never been able to sustainably do more than 15 hours so no idea. But within 15hours- 3 x swims per week - 3hours, 9km, 4x bike rides per week (3 x trainer, 1h,1h,1.5h) 1 x 4 hour ride = 7.5h/200k Run - 3 x 1h, 1 x 1h 30min. = 4.5h = 55km - that was rough breakdown last 12 months. 

Im a a relative stronger runner, mediocre biker and weak swimmer, but all relative. 
PS - I’m yet to break 10h 

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18 minutes ago, Bosco said:

I have never been able to sustainably do more than 15 hours so no idea. But within 15hours- 3 x swims per week - 3hours, 9km, 4x bike rides per week (3 x trainer, 1h,1h,1.5h) 1 x 4 hour ride = 7.5h/200k Run - 3 x 1h, 1 x 1h 30min. = 4.5h = 55km - that was rough breakdown last 12 months. 

Im a a relative stronger runner, mediocre biker and weak swimmer, but all relative. 
PS - I’m yet to break 10h 

I too have yet to go sub 10, but was hoping for it at Busso last year - I got sick and had to pull out a week before. Giving it another crack at Port this year but it is a harder course, so I can't see it happening for me.

I'm the inverse of Bosco - swimming background, ok cyclist, weak runner. It is absolutely relative - I swam solo whenever I could but typically 1-2 swims/week (sometimes none), and spent more time on the bike and running.

60-70km running per week was common, max of 90km. This and consistent time on the bike (trainer) was/is key for me.

Average training hours were 15-16 hrs/week, maxed at 20. Married with 2 kids under 10, but was able to be flex with work arrangements to accommodate 2 sessions/day.

Everyone is different.

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On 27/01/2020 at 12:20 PM, Leon said:

So, from those who have built similar weeks, what did the week look like to get ~ the totals?

Just curious what the structure of the week would be.

 

Edited by Jim Shortz
Coz

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On 27/01/2020 at 2:06 PM, wombattri said:

I too have yet to go sub 10, but was hoping for it at Busso last year - I got sick and had to pull out a week before. Giving it another crack at Port this year but it is a harder course, so I can't see it happening for me.

I'm the inverse of Bosco - swimming background, ok cyclist, weak runner. It is absolutely relative - I swam solo whenever I could but typically 1-2 swims/week (sometimes none), and spent more time on the bike and running.

60-70km running per week was common, max of 90km. This and consistent time on the bike (trainer) was/is key for me.

Average training hours were 15-16 hrs/week, maxed at 20. Married with 2 kids under 10, but was able to be flex with work arrangements to accommodate 2 sessions/day.

Everyone is different.

. ✌️👍

Edited by Jim Shortz
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17 minutes ago, Jim Shortz said:

Mon - Easy spin am 1 1/4 hrs

           Swim pm 4km

Tue  -  2hr brick am

Wed. - run 1hr-1.5hr am

           Swim pm 4km

Thur - easy bike 1.5hrs am

Fri.  - easy 1hr run am

         Easy swim 4km pm

Sat - long 4-6hr bike easy with 15min jog off am

Sun - long run 1.25-2.5hrs am very easy 

           Easy easy swim at lunchtime

 

 

 

Repeat every week for years to find your potential. 

 

No rest? I'd died on this plan :D

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1 minute ago, dazmuzza said:

No rest? I'd died on this plan :D

Thursday is his rest day looking at this.  
 

 

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On 27/01/2020 at 3:37 PM, Peter said:

Thursday is his rest day looking at this.  
 

 

Edited by Jim Shortz
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On 27/01/2020 at 3:58 PM, Bored@work said:

Finding out the time isn’t that hard. Finding the focus is the problem for me 

 

 

Edited by Jim Shortz
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27 minutes ago, Jim Shortz said:

... that old chestnut of "how bad do you want it?" is applicable here. 

Applies to everything in life.

But won't necessarily make you happy.

If you don't have something you want to sacrifice a lot for, doesn't make any less a person (as long as you are happy with your decisions).  There are a lot of 'driven' people in this world.  I admire a lot of them. But not all of them are happy.

Sadly I'm one of those 'driven' people, but not always successful.

Read what I wrote before posting. Doesn't seem to make much sense, but decided to post anyway.

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On 27/01/2020 at 4:36 PM, Rob said:

Applies to everything in life.

But won't necessarily make you happy.

If you don't have something you want to sacrifice a lot for, doesn't make any less a person (as long as you are happy with your decisions).  There are a lot of 'driven' people in this world.  I admire a lot of them. But not all of them are happy.

Sadly I'm one of those 'driven' people, but not always successful.

Read what I wrote before posting. Doesn't seem to make much sense, but decided to post anyway.

 

🤷‍♂️🤣🤣🤣👍👍✌️

Edited by Jim Shortz
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33 minutes ago, Jim Shortz said:

"as MJK says- just grab a fist full of balls when you train and get out and do it rain hail or shine" 😎👌

The lead-up to my best race, I missed 1 training session in the 4 months prior. That morning I woke up and my body said no, so I listened. Every other day I fronted, rain hail or shine. I changed a couple sessions after starting & feeling shit, but I still fronted.

The real secret to sub 10 isn't some magic formula of 10/275/60, or anything else. It's wanting it enough to do whatever it is you need to do.

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Being younger than 50 also helps. If you're going to sacrifice everything to go sub 10 hrs, try it with a young body. 

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On 27/01/2020 at 6:16 PM, Ex-Hasbeen said:

 

The real secret to sub 10 isn't some magic formula of 10/275/60, or anything else. It's wanting it enough to do whatever it is you need to do.

Edited by Jim Shortz
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Suggest we should add in here, as a big help, the ‘cluster’.

Emfield theory that your longevity and potential personal success (an arbitrary thing), is very much influenced by being part of a cluster. 

Reckon the shire mob are proof of this, amongst others.

 

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10 hours ago, Leon said:

Suggest we should add in here, as a big help, the ‘cluster’.

Emfield theory that your longevity and potential personal success (an arbitrary thing), is very much influenced by being part of a cluster. 

Reckon the shire mob are proof of this, amongst others.

 

Yep. I’m benefiting from that in my cycling team at the moment.

The banter & fear of getting dropped on the climbs is a huge motivator. 
 

Im in Bali on holidays & have still managed to run almost every day. Did 60km on the bike. I have been eating salad & grilled fish etc for most meals. 

We have been avg 20k steps a day. I think I have managed to drop weigh on holidays. Won’t know for sure until I get home. 

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12 hours ago, Leon said:

Suggest we should add in here, as a big help, the ‘cluster’.

Emfield theory that your longevity and potential personal success (an arbitrary thing), is very much influenced by being part of a cluster. 

Reckon the shire mob are proof of this, amongst others.

 

Yep, my regular training in the day included Fidler and Maskiell (top 10 Noosa a few times & national long-course team) and 3 or 4 others that would float around the top 10 at races. Add to that swimming in a squad with future Olympians and a future National coach on the deck and you can't help but improve.

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20 hours ago, dazmuzza said:

No rest? I'd died on this plan :D

If you are executing properly and not blowing your socks off for the greatest majority of the volume, then you aren't needing to recover from anything.

You aren't pulling up whacked from the workouts. Its a drip-drip method, versus hammer blows.

You're aerobically fit, and better able to recover day to day.

You are also eating appropriately, and sleeping enough...and sacrificing as needed to hit a home run on both those fronts. eg. no internet surfing, no tv, etc.

 

 

 

Edited by MJK
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3 hours ago, nealo said:

The REAL question is, "What is the secret to Sub 13".

Training.

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2 hours ago, MJK said:

If you are executing properly and not blowing your socks off for the greatest majority of the volume, then you aren't needing to recover from anything.

You aren't pulling up whacked from the workouts. Its a drip-drip method, versus hammer blows.

You're aerobically fit, and better able to recover day to day.

You are also eating appropriately, and sleeping enough...and sacrificing as needed to hit a home run on both those fronts. eg. no internet surfing, no tv, etc.

 

 

 

I like this approach. When I was being coached this is exactly what we did. I didn’t have a rest day the entire program (except travel days to the USA) 

I got an old friend who bangs on about the importance of having a rest day. I think that’s just old dinosaur training theories. He’s stubborn & wont change. 

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20 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

I like this approach. When I was being coached this is exactly what we did. I didn’t have a rest day the entire program (except travel days to the USA) 

I got an old friend who bangs on about the importance of having a rest day. I think that’s just old dinosaur training theories. He’s stubborn & wont change. 

You need recovery days.  But it doesn't have to be a rest day.

Some people need a day of no training for the mental rest rather than physical.

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So are we saying that anyone should be able to go sub 10? 
 

I’m really not sure that without some genetic predisposition that everyone can go sub 10. 
 

What is the average breakup of a sub 10 ( or a 10 flat) 

1, 5.20, 3.40 ? to include transitions and stuff. 

Those splits take a bit of talent in one or more of the disciplines. I would argue that possibly cycling is the only one where “just work” would get you to that split. 
And any weakness would only put more pressure on one of the other legs. 
 

Thoughts? 

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I don’t for a second believe everyone could go sub 10.  
 

I think people are training more serious and better than ever, but we aren’t seeing many more going sub 10 than we did in 2001. 
 

in 2001-2007 most average athletes started training New Year’s Day 12 weeks out give or take a few week before forster. 
now people train 50 weeks a year.  
 

sub 10 you’ve either got the ability or not. 
 

sub 12 with solid training is certainly possible for 70% of people

sub 11!maybe 50% of people could with solid training and diet. 
 

that’s my opinion of being in the sport for 25 years.  
 

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Agreed not everyone can go sub 10, but I think the point of the post was, if I want to go sub 10 (I do have some ability) what do I need to do.

14 minutes ago, roxii said:

What is the average breakup of a sub 10 ( or a 10 flat) 

1, 5.20, 3.40 ? to include transitions and stuff.

The make-up of that really depends on your strengths. I just missed on my first attempt, and went nearly 4 hours in the run when I should have been doing 3:30.

I think 1hr for the swim & transitions is doable in a good wetsuit swim for anyone who is serious (you will learn to swim properly if you're serious).

Like-wise, and as Roxii said, work will get you a 5:20 on the bike, and even quicker on a fast course (or sub 5 if you draft your butt off).

The run is the sticky bit for a lot of people. I think if you're not predisposed to running, or endurance sport, you're a real risk of injuring yourself trying to do the training. The other option is of course to wait for a couple of years worth of base to kick in. 

 

On second thoughts though, you can do a fair bit of walking and still get a 3:40, so it's not that far off for someone who really wants it.

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14 minutes ago, Jim Shortz said:

@nealo

I spent 40 odd minutes in the two transitions at Busselton. 

That's where my Trannie Qualification went. 

I think I beat that this year 

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On 27/01/2020 at 8:27 AM, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Simple. Just do it before you get a wife & kids. ;)

In all seriousness, “wanting it enough” is worth 2/10ths of €%]# all if of your spouse does not look favourably on you consistently carving ~15 hours out of your week.

Any suggestions on managing spouse expectations?

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3 minutes ago, trilobite said:

Any suggestions on managing spouse expectations?

If she trains also it helps heaps. 

My wife runs.  She does her long run of a Sunday.  I go out riding when shes home.

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5 minutes ago, trilobite said:

In all seriousness, “wanting it enough” is worth 2/10ths of €%]# all if of your spouse does not look favourably on you consistently carving ~15 hours out of your week.

Any suggestions on managing spouse expectations?

Do what you can when they aren't expecting you around. That way you don't need to manage much.

Even before I started training again, I would have headed off to work before anybody else got up. So I just started getting up even earlier & getting a long ride or swim then ride in. That would be my travel to work & I would do up to 100km before work. Recovery ride or short hard work home (it was 30km from home to work). I'd run at lunch.

Long ride would be Saturday from 3 or 4am & home as they sit down to breakfast, and long run would be Sunday & home before they got up.

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10 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Do what you can when they aren't expecting you around. That way you don't need to manage much.

Even before I started training again, I would have headed off to work before anybody else got up. So I just started getting up even earlier & getting a long ride or swim then ride in. That would be my travel to work & I would do up to 100km before work. Recovery ride or short hard work home (it was 30km from home to work). I'd run at lunch.

Long ride would be Saturday from 3 or 4am & home as they sit down to breakfast, and long run would be Sunday & home before they got up.

Anyone on this forum with little guys that typically wake up (sometimes well) before 6am?

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8 minutes ago, trilobite said:

Anyone on this forum with little guys that typically wake up (sometimes well) before 6am?

That makes it tough. Mine were at school.

Most say early parenthood means an Ironman hiatus. 

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1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Do what you can when they aren't expecting you around. That way you don't need to manage much.

Even before I started training again, I would have headed off to work before anybody else got up. So I just started getting up even earlier & getting a long ride or swim then ride in. That would be my travel to work & I would do up to 100km before work. Recovery ride or short hard work home (it was 30km from home to work). I'd run at lunch.

Long ride would be Saturday from 3 or 4am & home as they sit down to breakfast, and long run would be Sunday & home before they got up.

That's just silly 

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11 minutes ago, Crowies crushed nuts said:

That's just silly 

I actually loved getting out on the road that early. I got all the way to the other side of Mt Mee one morning before I saw the first car. It made the rides a lot safer and when it's 30+ and high humidity before 9am, you wanted to get it over with early. Run would start just before sunrise, in Bunya State Forest, and was magical.

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1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Long ride would be Saturday from 3 or 4am & home as they sit down to breakfast, and long run would be Sunday & home before they got up.

 

23 minutes ago, Crowies crushed nuts said:

That's just silly 

I was out running at 4:30am today.  Doing my long run.  Was extremely nice. 

Only issue I seem to run slower in the dark / street lights and when the sun comes up I got 45sec a km faster.  

I wonder if it matters?  mind you all in zone 2 where I'm told I should be.

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1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Do what you can when they aren't expecting you around. That way you don't need to manage much.

Even before I started training again, I would have headed off to work before anybody else got up. So I just started getting up even earlier & getting a long ride or swim then ride in. That would be my travel to work & I would do up to 100km before work. Recovery ride or short hard work home (it was 30km from home to work). I'd run at lunch.

Long ride would be Saturday from 3 or 4am & home as they sit down to breakfast, and long run would be Sunday & home before they got up.

That's exactly what I strive to do. Group rides are difficult though as most don't want to kick off until 6am. A 4 hour ride at that time has you home around 10ish, after shower etc it pretty much 11, days already half gone and depending on the mood you have a grumpy wife and kids. 

Kick off at 4am you are home by 8 and ready to have breaky with the fam at 9 and get stuck into the day. Everyone is happy-its s if you havent even trained.

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