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Peter

Static trainers are bad apparently

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So I’ve seen dan plews probably one of the better age groupers around and pretty smart guy isn’t on a kickr anymore but one of these. 

Then the ex coach science guy from highroad htc blah who’s based in Melbourne also said never use you TT bike on a trainer as its bad for your skills and position.  

Id fall off rollers as I don’t have the concentration.

anyone else using SMART ROLLER for zwift sessions? 

8D0E3539-614D-4807-BD12-D24C2BE214CA.png

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What does the pointy end at Kona use? I’d crash the rollers too, probably send it straight through the TV.

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I have a 'non-smart' set of rollers. Off memory cost around $100 on Wiggle.

For Zwift, I just use the power meter on my bike.  Means I don't get the resistence feedback, but I still enjoy it (well as much as I can enjoy an indoor bike session).  We have a Tacx Neo that my wife uses regularly, but I do nearly all my Zwift sessions on the rollers

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Bad for skills is probably right, and it is not reflective of a true position in a non static/outdoor ride but thats why it is important to at least do some aerobar sessions outside i reckon... wont be selling my kickr just yet though...

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1 minute ago, Slunnie said:

What does the pointy end at Kona use? I’d crash the rollers too, probably send it straight through the TV.

If you fall off the rollers, it will be to the side.

I ride next to the garage door, so I can put my hand on the door if I ever need to steady myself.  For most people, it definitely takes a bit of getting used to. Took me a few rides before I was confident enough to grab the water bottle. But after about 5 sessions I could ride no hands.  Still not brave enough to try bunny hopping on and off yet.

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2 minutes ago, pieman said:

Bad for skills is probably right, and it is not reflective of a true position in a non static/outdoor ride but thats why it is important to at least do some aerobar sessions outside i reckon... wont be selling my kickr just yet though...

I think it is more relevant for athletes who experience harsh winters and spend 3 months only riding indoors.

I ride on rollers because I prefer the feel. I like the bike to be able to move a little underneath me.  However I only use the roadie, haven't tried the TriBike on the rollers yet

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3 minutes ago, more said:

What skills do rollers give you?

You develop better balance on the bike. 

If you want to learn, the best place to start is in a doorway, where you can grab the wall either side. And if you're in Brisbane & want to try it, I have a set here that aren't getting used at the moment. I may one day want to use them again, but your welcome to use them till then.

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40 minutes ago, Peter said:

So I’ve seen dan plews probably one of the better age groupers around

A bit of an understatement surely? :P doesn't he hold the age group record at Kona? In 2018 he beat a heap of pros!

Also if triathletes want to improve skills, just go ride mountainbikes or CX. Many ride on trainers and I don't see mass crashes everywhere in the pro field. 

Edited by dazmuzza

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2 minutes ago, more said:

What skills do rollers give you?

Mainly balance and the ability to maintain a straight line.  You learn to use your hips more to balance the bike and use a far lighter grip on the handlebars (both of these aspects improve the bike handling).

Seen athletes who do most of their riding indoors unable to grab a drink bottle or nutrition when riding on the road or clip out when cornering.

Even for experienced riders, you'd be surprised how much you move around without realising it

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My Rollers setup.  Garage door doubles as a safety net and a convenient place to store gels and bars.

Small green towel is to stop the sweat dripping into the headset.

Rollers.jpg

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1 hour ago, dazmuzza said:

 Many ride on trainers and I don't see mass crashes everywhere in the pro field. 

The pro field don't sit in packs. That's where the real danger is for people that ride most of their time on trainers. The ability to quickly react, change direction or maintain a perfectly straight line. These are learnt on the road, not with the wheel clamped in.

When you are 12m apart, it isn't that important. And for all the pro's that spend a majority of their time on a trainer, they probably still spend more time on the road than most AGers that rarely use trainers.

1 hour ago, dazmuzza said:

Also if triathletes want to improve skills, just go ride mountainbikes or CX.

This. And it's fun.

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2 hours ago, Peter said:

So I’ve seen dan plews probably one of the better age groupers around and pretty smart guy isn’t on a kickr anymore but one of these. 

Then the ex coach science guy from highroad htc blah who’s based in Melbourne also said never use you TT bike on a trainer as its bad for your skills and position.  

Id fall off rollers as I don’t have the concentration.

anyone else using SMART ROLLER for zwift sessions? 

8D0E3539-614D-4807-BD12-D24C2BE214CA.png

What is with the digital rat lol?

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I have a friend who has been saying this for years. He does hill repeats in the rain. Not sure if he’s won his age group in Kona, he doesn’t  talk about Kona much. 

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5 hours ago, pieman said:

Bad for skills is probably right, and it is not reflective of a true position in a non static/outdoor ride but thats why it is important to at least do some aerobar sessions outside i reckon... wont be selling my kickr just yet though...

Exactly what they said in the podcast. Its pointless Riding your TT bike on a usual trainer.  Either outside or not at all.  

Id love some rollers but I’ll let more buy them and I’ll borrow them off him. 

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2 minutes ago, Peter said:

Id love some rollers but I’ll let more buy them and I’ll borrow them off him. 

Once it gets too hot down there you can move to Brisbane & borrow mine. 

 

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If it's *all* you did on a bike I'd agree, especially if cycling hasn't been a big part of your athletic life.

But if it enables you to execute more hours improving your fitness, then the metabolic gains are definitely worth it compared with not doing any cycling work. Just make sure you also get sufficient outdoor ride time for the neuromuscular, skill and execution development aspects.

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3 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Once it gets too hot down there you can move to Brisbane & borrow mine. 

 

I own a few rentals up there.  I might get there one day. 

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4 hours ago, Peter said:

Exactly what they said in the podcast. Its pointless Riding your TT bike on a usual trainer.  Either outside or not at all.  

Id love some rollers but I’ll let more buy them and I’ll borrow them off him. 

I'm sure we can do a contra deal with my disc thrown in for a couple of weeks in one of your Brissy places 😎

Edited by more

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1 minute ago, more said:

I'm sure we can do a contra deal with my disc thrown in for a couple of weeks in one of your Brissy places 😎

We wouldn’t last one summer in Brisbane. I struggle in Byron bay.  

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4 hours ago, Peter said:

Exactly what they said in the podcast. Its pointless Riding your TT bike on a usual trainer.  Either outside or not at all.  

Id love some rollers but I’ll let more buy them and I’ll borrow them off him. 

Disagree... agree with Alex below.. if I didn't use trainer my volume would be much lower and I reckon doing a few outdoor rides occasionally and more frequently as race approaches is fine for building skills and positional awareness..

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I think you can get away with minimal skills for triathlon due to the non drafting nature of most races. 
if you were to only train indoors to race road or track you could get found out, like old mate Geoscott (George Lowe) 

 

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14 minutes ago, pieman said:

Disagree... agree with Alex below.. if I didn't use trainer my volume would be much lower and I reckon doing a few outdoor rides occasionally and more frequently as race approaches is fine for building skills and positional awareness..

We are talking TT bikes. Not roadies. 

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6 minutes ago, Tyno said:

How to turn your blue knicks brown

To give some context, George was a good triathlete, super string rider but did 99% of his riding indoors.

he then tried his hand at track and because of his strength he quickly, probably too quickly, rose through to a grade where his speed and strength certainly didn’t match his handling skills or lack there of. 

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16 minutes ago, Peter said:

We are talking TT bikes. Not roadies. 

I know. By awareness I meant the experience of being in a tt position that isn't locked on a trainer..

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51 minutes ago, pieman said:

Disagree... agree with Alex below.. if I didn't use trainer my volume would be much lower and I reckon doing a few outdoor rides occasionally and more frequently as race approaches is fine for building skills and positional awareness..

Yes, and it does help you get used to staying in the TT position. Yes it handles differently so doesn't help with that but your body needs to get used to the position and indoor TT position ks help, as well as providing significant fitness benefits. Most tri courses are not technical and do not involve (or should not  involve) group riding, so handling is less of an issue.

Pretty much everyone on here is so far from the pointy end who really cares, stationary, rollers, indoors, outdoors, every km helps. 

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98% of my annual bike training time per annum is on the Kickr.

About 96.5% if I run a training camp for my athletes in Kona in same year.

Outside of camps, race day is essentially the only time I ride on the road...sometimes the day before the race, at the race locale.

 

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All my mid-week (and some of my weekend) training is on the kickr. Especially mid-week which are strength and tempo sessions, I can't get those done on the road without terrorising those on the shared path, or getting swiped by cars.

My weekend bike session is more about time in the saddle now, so I will be doing those outside on a combo of paths and bike lanes.

But I came from a cycling background, specifically mountain biking. So I got my handling skills back then.

Edited by MissJess

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I can see where they are coming from, but  sometimes you do get some benefits, I know that I spent too much time on the road bike in the lead up to my first attempt at Busso, I just could not hold the TT position for 6 hours, and the lack of downhills meant no freewheeling. Where I live, there isn't anywhere to ride where you can just pedal for 30mins without having to worry about hills, and what goes up must come down, usually where you are not pedaling. The trainer is the only place you can do repeated hour intervals.

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2 hours ago, Cape_Horn said:

I can see where they are coming from, but  sometimes you do get some benefits, I know that I spent too much time on the road bike in the lead up to my first attempt at Busso, I just could not hold the TT position for 6 hours, and the lack of downhills meant no freewheeling. 

I had two friends train for Busso doing 6 hour rides on trainers. One of the wives would turn up with egg and sausage mc muffins 🤣

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I don't think anyone is saying the Wahoo Kickr, Tacx Neo, etc are not fantastic training tools.  They provide a very safe environment, protected from bad weather and allow for a far more concentrated effort.  There can also be other heat related benefits that we can save for another thread. As a coach they are even more valuable as I have control over what my athletes do in their session.

But a lack of riding outdoors can definitely compromise your bike handling ability.
- can you grab your drink bottle in cross winds
- does your bike wobble (go offline) when you grab the drink bottle
- do you get nervous when the speed goes above 50kph
- do you hold a preditable line through corners

Generalisations: more mileage on the bike helps you get faster. More mileage improves bike handling. Therefore the faster riders tended to be better bike handlers.  In recent years I am seeing more and more 'fast' riders with poor handling ability.

In an Ironman you are likely to spend a lot of time without many bikes around you (unless you are in the 5 hour bunch). However in local races with 60 mins worth of wave starts, you are constantly passing riders from earlier waves and being passed by those from later waves. There are typcially u-turns every 5km, which are invariably the most congested part of the course.  It is fine is everyone is riding well. A few slow riders wobbling about are usually easy to spot and avoid. But dealing with faster riders veering all over the road, braking too early and taking terrible lines through corners starts to get dangerous.

If I don't ride my motorbike for a few weeks, I instantly notice a drop in my riding ability. A lot of motorbike riders don't ride over Winter. First good weekend in Spring there are usually a lot of motorcycle accidents.

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Rob, I hope you ride that motorbike during winter. No place for softness around here. 

Says the guy who rides his Beemer year round with all the gadgets working to provide comforts for all seasons. 

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19 hours ago, Greyman said:

Rob, I hope you ride that motorbike during winter. No place for softness around here. 

Rode to work every day for over 15 years.  But started catching the train the last 2 years. We now have two Honda CBR600s in the garage mostly gathering dust as neither my wife nor find time to ride much.  Really miss the riding, but may have to sell them

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The only inherent risk of a Kickr etc is that the typical A Type doesn't allow themselves to have a lower/easier period of activity during the year and possibly inviting over training or burn out. 

 

I'm not saying have an off season at all. I'm just saying that a low volume period is healthy. 

 

Regards 

 

Me 

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18 minutes ago, Jim Shortz said:

I'm just saying that a low volume period is healthy.

My super low volume means that I'm super healthy, right? :D

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1 hour ago, Tyno said:

My super low volume means that I'm super healthy, right? :D

If that's what your body needs, then that's perfect... LOL 😂👍

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