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Peter

Drug use by the professionals in the 80's - 90's

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15 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Mark Allen

Nice, World Champs Olympic Distance then Kona 8 weeks out... all in 1989.

 

15 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Were they drug testing?

 

9 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Clean as a whistle is my friend Mark.

Given how hippy mark was and is still, I highly doubt he was every doing drugs to increase his performance.

He was just a freak of his time.

Mind you, there is a guy on Twitter (who's now blocked me) who is absolutely slamming Jan as a drug cheat.

Some of his stuff has merit

 

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My opinion is that they are as likely, or unlikely to have taken banned substances as today’s athletes, depending on your opinion of today’s athletes.

The lack of drug testing may have given them more leeway to try and cheat, especially in off season training. 
I also think that the list of banned substances is much much longer than it was back in the day, so they could have had a “special potion” that was not illegal back in the day but may be now. 

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Back in the 80's those guys thought having anything more than (2 doz)  banana during an IM was pushing boundaries ....

 

(but I think some of those California types may have had some special herbs ♻️in their down time)

Edited by trifun
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Back about 15 years ago, I rode with a dude by chance down the far south coast...... both on a long ride training for Ironman..... and we were discussing drugs in sports and he said his mate was a doctor that was part of certain tri club about 30 km south of one of Australias most populus cities. He said drugs in triathlon was rampant..... I said doubtful and he said....... look at all the world champions that came out of that club...... I said surely not......... he was very definite in his reponse.

I also know of a guy on the Gold Coast who was curious and ended up getting on to Human Growth hormones. His girlfriend was on them to and she was a Pro triathlete..... he said when he enquired about this stuff he said...does it work...and the Doctor said...who is the fastest swimmer at your squad...He said X..... and the doctor said....so it works then. PS: Olympic Swimmer.

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I think it would be naive to think Triathlons, since the dawn of competition didn’t have athletes on the gear in the pro ranks. Only change now is they are easily accessible for the age groupers.

Triathlon like cycling, is the perfect testing ground.

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1 hour ago, IronmanFoz said:

Back about 15 years ago, I rode with a dude by chance down the far south coast...... both on a long ride training for Ironman..... and we were discussing drugs in sports and he said his mate was a doctor that was part of certain tri club about 30 km south of one of Australias most populus cities. He said drugs in triathlon was rampant..... I said doubtful and he said....... look at all the world champions that came out of that club...... I said surely not......... he was very definite in his reponse.

I also know of a guy on the Gold Coast who was curious and ended up getting on to Human Growth hormones. His girlfriend was on them to and she was a Pro triathlete..... he said when he enquired about this stuff he said...does it work...and the Doctor said...who is the fastest swimmer at your squad...He said X..... and the doctor said....so it works then. PS: Olympic Swimmer.

I've been following the other thread and agree with the lament that this forum is not what it used to be in terms of informed and positive content -  This encapsulates it  - so dunno who you are but you feel it necessary to post a generalised hearsay comment about a chance encounter with a rider whose mate was a member of a Triathlon club and 'he was very definite in his response' about drugs being rampant in a particular club? An Olympic swimmer must be on the gear? Geezuz...I've seen some cowardly posts and pot shots on here before but this takes the cake. 

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1 hour ago, Coach@triathlon said:

I've been following the other thread and agree with the lament that this forum is not what it used to be in terms of informed and positive content -  This encapsulates it  - so dunno who you are but you feel it necessary to post a generalised hearsay comment about a chance encounter with a rider whose mate was a member of a Triathlon club and 'he was very definite in his response' about drugs being rampant in a particular club? An Olympic swimmer must be on the gear? Geezuz...I've seen some cowardly posts and pot shots on here before but this takes the cake. 

Ouch...... 

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Its a topic, I contributed. 

I like to think everyone is innocent...even Lance - right up to the end when he opened his mouth and did the full confession. 

The first one was a chance encounter yes...i give you that... 

The other is not a chance encounter...... and I could quite easily name a few names, but there is no chance of that ever happening. Even so... I still, in my mind believe it not to be true, but that would be naive of me as well.

 

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15 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

Its a topic, I contributed. 

I like to think everyone is innocent...even Lance - right up to the end when he opened his mouth and did the full confession. 

The first one was a chance encounter yes...i give you that... 

The other is not a chance encounter...... and I could quite easily name a few names, but there is no chance of that ever happening. Even so... I still, in my mind believe it not to be true, but that would be naive of me as well.

 

Well big guy who could quite easily name a few names - fire the gun and allow the people being slandered to respond, or slither away - I have been a member of a Triathlon club 30kms south of Sydney for 35 years and immersed myself in  friendships and the day to day vagaries of life with a number of world champions and Kona/ITU  winners - watched them live, train, eat, sleep, and win with remarkable talent - and survive relationships, financial struggles, and parenting, just like the rest of us. Would give my right nut to vouch for their work ethic and integrity.     

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The 80's is a bit early for me, but there are a couple of pros from back in the 90's who went positive. Zack for one.

Gaag went positive late in his career, but there was a lot of talk that he was hitting it much earlier, and that he got in a bit of trouble in WA in 1997. 

And everyone's favourite, Luc Van Lierde - who left Hawaii the day they announced drug testing was going to happen, citing that his 'head wasn't in it'.

I am not sure how rife it was, I knew some of the better guys out there & would be pretty surprised & disappointed if if turned out they were doping.

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I reckon back then way more likely. 
Testing for banned substances only ever follows after they work out the positive effects of substances. 
EPO would have been the drug I reckon. 
yeah in fact in Triathlon I reckon it was rife. 

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Am I the only one thinking this - Peter what did you do to get blocked?

PS - fascinating twitter feed. 

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Just now, Bosco said:

Am I the only one thinking this - Peter what did you do to get blocked?

PS - fascinating twitter feed. 

I did a tweet supporting Jan when he called Jan a drug cheap. 

 

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4 hours ago, Coach@triathlon said:

Well big guy who could quite easily name a few names - fire the gun and allow the people being slandered to respond, or slither away - I have been a member of a Triathlon club 30kms south of Sydney for 35 years and immersed myself in  friendships and the day to day vagaries of life with a number of world champions and Kona/ITU  winners - watched them live, train, eat, sleep, and win with remarkable talent - and survive relationships, financial struggles, and parenting, just like the rest of us. Would give my right nut to vouch for their work ethic and integrity.     

Like I said before...as if I would name anyone and no one ever does on this site as you very well know. All I said is this is what I heard. Let’s call it ‘here say’ but the guy was local to Sydney and seemed like he knew a lot - had started Ironmans in the mid 80’s. Maybe it was a generalisation and like I said I thought it to be doubtful. He never said names. I grew up admiring some of those folks and not all champions. And I still do.

Regarding My other friend who I know who actually tried stuff. He did name names.... but again. That’s not my business to name names as that would cause all sorts of grief. Ps: I will tell you they are both from Queensland; one a swimmer......the other a triathlete he dated and I believe him to be 100% correct. Ps: he said the sex was incredible. 

The point of the comment is - it’s out there...... people can point fingers etc, but no one will ever know the truth and that’s up to the individual. And this is a perception across every sport.

Be offended if you chose to be. 

 

 

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This is hard. If we go Omerta and don't talk about it, how do we ever catch anyone. The debate has to be had. The defence of don't say anything about me or I'll sue you is the Lance Armstrong Defence.

We need to ensure that people are not being dragged through the mud. There is a place for discussion, hopefully reasoned. Think Foz was doing that, he didn't label anyone, but he was letting us know there is history with some reliable sources. Sensibly he did not go any further.

When the guy from Canberra came out about drug use in pro cycling, is there any doubt that use was rife and that some of our biking heroes (in this case probably nearly all of them) were doped. 

Scott Molina got popped at Nice one year and Europeans emergence in the mid 90's at Ironman resulted in interesting discussions. 

That Uli guy that banned Pete (tee hee) was spot on about Lance and other users way before the Lance Fan club gave up (including me). Uli was a very talented pro and knew who was on gear and not and called it, he also got banned from ST.

The conversation needs to be had otherwise Omerta wins, respectful informed discussion is better.

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I found it interesting that some pro males (think TO was one) that had not been tested out of competition in 7 years.  And only once in the last 5 years.   I think even he tweeted it. 

 

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36 years, one (al clear)  "in-competition" test

(been a long time since I was that close to the front though, I blame the theobromine for my demise )

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28 minutes ago, trifun said:

36 years, one (al clear)  "in-competition" test

(been a long time since I was that close to the front though, I blame the theobromine for my demise )

Shit even i got tested a few years ago and i did 530 in the half.  Ha. 

 

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We used to random test while I was on the Vanuatu Triathlon Club committee back in the 90.

You had to pee in a cup then take a swig. If you spat it out, you were positive. If you swallowed it, you were clean. 
We only banned one bloke. Not for spitting it out, but for drinking  his whole cup every time then asking for more. 

FM

Edited by Flanman
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Never been tested in my life...

Apparently my $1k US to IM every year contributes towards testing but who is to say they don’t just take the samples and flush them down the toilet as what incentive would they actually have to spend money on it?

In saying that though, I do truly believe pro tri to be quite clean. Perhaps this is because I believe the guy who is clearly the best in the world (Jan) is most definitely clean.

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2 minutes ago, Flanman said:

We used to random test while I was on the Vanuatu Triathlon Club committee back in the 90.

You had to pee in a cup then take a swig. If you spat it out, you were positive. If you swallowed it, you were clean. 
We only banned one bloke. Not for spitting it out, but for drinking  his whole cup every time then asking for more. 

FM

1996 - Top 15 or 20 I think in Vanuatu. Clearly I was not fast enough to be tested.

Then again.... I asked if they would send result out.....they said they can't afford to!

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I was there then - small world. I’m pretty sure I have the results somewhere in the garage. I will have a look when I can.


FM

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12 minutes ago, Flanman said:

We used to random test while I was on the Vanuatu Triathlon Club committee back in the 90.

You had to pee in a cup then take a swig. If you spat it out, you were positive. If you swallowed it, you were clean. 
We only banned one bloke. Not for spitting it out, but for drinking  his whole cup every time then asking for more. 

FM

Wow they had a triathlon club there?? I used to live in the Solomon Islands, they didn't used to have a club, but do now. No pools to swim in back in the 90s, I think there may be one now?

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25 minutes ago, lachie94 said:

Never been tested in my life...

Apparently my $1k US to IM every year contributes towards testing but who is to say they don’t just take the samples and flush them down the toilet as what incentive would they actually have to spend money on it?

In saying that though, I do truly believe pro tri to be quite clean. Perhaps this is because I believe the guy who is clearly the best in the world (Jan) is most definitely clean.

It still disturbs me given you do race as a professional.  

yet i got tested because i was close with a top age grouper who was tested 5 times in 12 months. 


 

Edited by Peter

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5 hours ago, Peter said:

It still disturbs me given you do race as a professional.  

yet i got tested because i was close with a top age grouper who was tested 5 times in 12 months. 


 

as in biblically close or close in finishing time

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1 minute ago, BarryBevan said:

as in biblically close or close in finishing time

He got close in finishing time. When he said top age grouper though, he left out that she was a top age grouper in the 60+ AG.

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9 hours ago, Peter said:

Shit even i got tested a few years ago and i did 530 in the half.  Ha. 

 

You probably got tested because they were astounded you broke 6:30. :eek:

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1 hour ago, Paul Every said:

You probably got tested because they were astounded you broke 6:30. :eek:

EZE up.  I’ve never gone that slow. Have done a few 620s in my time.  

I actually worked out my average time since 1994 to now is about 5.21

i hope to break that time this summer. 

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I am hoping that they drug tested the winner of the 45-49 AG at both Nice and Kona this year - Vinokourov.

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6 hours ago, Ironnerd said:

I am hoping that they drug tested the winner of the 45-49 AG at both Nice and Kona this year - Vinokourov.

Waste of resources. He would have learned his lesson after he was banned. 😂

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A coach from another area slanders a whole area. Ill translate. "Im a shit coach and looking for reasons other than asking myself the hard questions about why Im shit". On a hearsay basis. So I replace your hearsay with a few facts. The most exciting thing to come out of Turramarra is the sphinx.

Weak. As. Piss. 

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But it was okay to have a crack at Greg Lemond in the other thread? Don't think we should attack anyone without evidence, though we can have respectful discussions.

 

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4 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

But it was okay to have a crack at Greg Lemond in the other thread? Don't think we should attack anyone without evidence, though we can have respectful discussions.

 

I thought the main reason Lemond retired was because the use of EPO in cycling exploded in the early 90s and he was unable to compete with the doped up cyclists.

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14 minutes ago, zed said:

I thought the main reason Lemond retired was because the use of EPO in cycling exploded in the early 90s and he was unable to compete with the doped up cyclists.

Yes, I am making the point, poorly it would appear that its okay for Tony to accuse Lemond, but not okay for some one else to question some one from a local club.

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7 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Yes, I am making the point, poorly it would appear that its okay for Tony to accuse Lemond, but not okay for some one else to question some one from a local club.

yeah I was agreeing with you. You can't accuse people willy nilly without hard evidence.

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45 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Yes, I am making the point, poorly it would appear that its okay for Tony to accuse Lemond, but not okay for some one else to question some one from a local club.

One hundred percent agree with you

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22 minutes ago, zed said:

yeah I was agreeing with you. You can't accuse people willy nilly without hard evidence.

sorry zed, see that now. Like your stuff, including the belief in Alistair Brownlee.

It would be naive to think that there was zero use of PED in tris in any era. How do we have the conversations needed to catch people.

LA showed us testing and systems are corrupt and fail. Betsy and Frankie and anyone who questioned was subjected to the behaviours shown in the related threads here.

You are "a piss ant nothing" if you say anything without hard proof. Then there was the tough guy act, say it to my face. Discussions can be had respectfully without naming people without proof, otherwise omerta wins.

Every time PED use comes up, this community being small generally defends people even in the instances when they are guilty. Anyhow the bias came out again, leave it for others to justify and rationalise.

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He had a good point about Vino. The previous years of doping has already given the benefit. No need to do it anymore. 

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1 hour ago, zed said:

I thought the main reason Lemond retired was because the use of EPO in cycling exploded in the early 90s and he was unable to compete with the doped up cyclists.

That's the theory, along with his system being a bit affected by the gunshot pellets still in his body (not sure if that is legit or not).

It was also referenced in the deleted thread that Lemond was with PDM, a team known for doping. What wasn't mentioned in the thread was that Lemond has said that PDM offered him testosterone, which he declined. He then broke his contract & nicked off because he was scared that they were going to put it in his food. This was in an LA times article from way back in 1989, so it's not revisionist history.

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11 hours ago, TUv5.0 said:

A coach from another area slanders a whole area. Ill translate. "Im a shit coach and looking for reasons other than asking myself the hard questions about why Im shit". On a hearsay basis. So I replace your hearsay with a few facts. The most exciting thing to come out of Turramarra is the sphinx.

Weak. As. Piss. 

And another comes out of the woodworks. Let it go Tony....let it go.

Ps: The Sphinx Memorial is actually pretty cool. Don’t forget Bobbin Head. 

And I guess you have never heard of Newcombe and Roche..... great ‘exciting’ tennis players in their day. Then there’s Kel Nagle the golfer. probably way before your time, but that ok. 

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4 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

Yes, I am making the point, poorly it would appear that its okay for Tony to accuse Lemond, but not okay for some one else to question some one from a local club.

At the end of the day, no one will really know who is or isn’t or was or wasn’t unless they are actually busted or the speak the truth as Lance finally did.

Our closest mate could be doing it.... but how would we ever know! This is why I find it so funny that people are so quick to defend others. I always like to see good in people, but I am also not naive enough to think it does not exist.

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I had 6 panadol over 24 hours when I got those two fractures in my foot the other month. Should I apply for a TUE?

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19 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

At the end of the day, no one will really know who is or isn’t or was or wasn’t unless they are actually busted or the speak the truth as Lance finally did.

Our closest mate could be doing it.... but how would we ever know! This is why I find it so funny that people are so quick to defend others. I always like to see good in people, but I am also not naive enough to think it does not exist.

No, it's not funny - and there are those that do know the truth of it pertaining to close mates and all - you besmirched an entire Triathlon club - and those that emerged from it that reached the highest peaks in the sport. Tony, as much as he is removed from the sport these days, saw it important enough to emerge from his self imposed exile to call you out - because you disrespected a sacred chapter of the sport that defined and shaped Australia on the world stage. Shame on you. 

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On 04/11/2019 at 7:33 PM, Coach@triathlon said:

No, it's not funny - and there are those that do know the truth of it pertaining to close mates and all - you besmirched an entire Triathlon club - and those that emerged from it that reached the highest peaks in the sport. Tony, as much as he is removed from the sport these days, saw it important enough to emerge from his self imposed exile to call you out - because you disrespected a sacred chapter of the sport that defined and shaped Australia on the world stage. Shame on you. 

The besmirching of an entire triathlon club. 

As CTC alumni, I’ll say it,  I’ll second you.

“I have been besmirched”. 

May the hordes of other CTC members and alumni join us in declaring our besmirching.

 

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3 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

The besmirching of an entire triathlon club. 

As CTC alumni, I’ll say it,  I’ll second you.

“I have been besmirched”. 

May the hordes of other CTC members and alumni join us in declaring our besmirching.

 

 

On 31/10/2019 at 2:50 PM, IronmanFoz said:

Back about 15 years ago, I rode with a dude by chance down the far south coast...... both on a long ride training for Ironman..... and we were discussing drugs in sports and he said his mate was a doctor that was part of certain tri club about 30 km south of one of Australias most populus cities. He said drugs in triathlon was rampant..... I said doubtful and he said....... look at all the world champions that came out of that club...... I said surely not......... he was very definite in his reponse.

I also know of a guy on the Gold Coast who was curious and ended up getting on to Human Growth hormones. His girlfriend was on them to and she was a Pro triathlete..... he said when he enquired about this stuff he said...does it work...and the Doctor said...who is the fastest swimmer at your squad...He said X..... and the doctor said....so it works then. PS: Olympic Swimmer.

Is that besmirching of an entire club. He didn't even identify the city let alone the club. I understand Cronulla thinks it is the centre of the universe in triathlon, but it is the folk of the shire who decided this pertained to them, when nobody said any such thing.

You shire peeps decided to get outraged and make it all about you.

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50 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

 

Is that besmirching of an entire club. He didn't even identify the city let alone the club. I understand Cronulla thinks it is the centre of the universe in triathlon, but it is the folk of the shire who decided this pertained to them, when nobody said any such thing.

You shire peeps decided to get outraged and make it all about you.

You’re English hey Barry.  

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