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Rolling Start for Noosa Tri

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1 hour ago, AA7 said:

Don't like it.

Rolling starts are utter shite... I know most people arent racing for places (i am most certainly not) but I know of people who have been 1st over the line but not been slightly slower than someone starting behind them.. 

I guess it is a bit like that already at really big races with split wave starts base don surname but it is still crap if you ask me

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30 minutes ago, BogFrog said:

Eh, what??  Please explain.  Everything.  Cause I'm dumb

Rolling starts at Noosa this year. Self seed yourself based on your estimated swim time. You'll have no idea where you are placed during the race within your category. Blergh.

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I don't like them because

stand in que to register

stand in portaloo que

stand in que to start

stand in que to get post race drink

no hype, no gun, just stand in a que

I understand the safety issues but just lacks the feel of a mass/wave start

If you want to see hype up a start watch the footage of IMNZ from the whaka come in to the gun of a mass start. 

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41 minutes ago, AA7 said:

Rolling starts at Noosa this year. Self seed yourself based on your estimated swim time. You'll have no idea where you are placed during the race within your category. Blergh.

So is the rolling start within the age group or could I be lining up beside a 25 year ols male?

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I get it and accept It. But those f*ckers who do not put on the category marker on calf annoy me. It should be an instant DQ.....

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But what does that matter with a rolling start?

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49 minutes ago, BogFrog said:

So is the rolling start within the age group or could I be lining up beside a 25 year ols male?

That's part of the problem is where people swim with their stronger partners and then draft the whole bike off them and jog to victory..

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1 hour ago, BogFrog said:

So is the rolling start within the age group or could I be lining up beside a 25 year ols male?

Yep, will go off with anyone. 

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1 hour ago, Bosco said:

I get it and accept It. But those f*ckers who do not put on the category marker on calf annoy me. It should be an instant DQ.....

Hate me then. 

55 minutes ago, goughy said:

But what does that matter with a rolling start?

Because someone who starts at 7am might get better conditions than someone who starts at 11am. So its not A fair playing field.  

The only good part of a rolling start is you can start with all of your mates even though you are different ages. 

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19 minutes ago, AA7 said:

Yep, will go off with anyone. 

That sucks ass. The two times i swam with blokes I was either dunked (arm on each shoulder and shoved under water) or bashed over the head

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1 hour ago, Bosco said:

I get it and accept It. But those f*ckers who do not put on the category marker on calf annoy me. It should be an instant DQ.....

 

1 hour ago, goughy said:

But what does that matter with a rolling start?

 

15 minutes ago, Peter said:

Because someone who starts at 7am might get better conditions than someone who starts at 11am. So its not A fair playing field.  

What I meant was what does it matter whether they've got a category number or not with a rolling start?  You wouldn't have a clue if they stated before you or not?

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I don't know if I'm a fan of it or not; never had to do one yet, and likely never have to.  Sure, every race I go to is a participation event for me.  But not for some, for some it's a race.  And if you ask me this turns it from a race to a participation event for everyone.  Tactics are part of a race.  At least, that's what I think.

And honestly, what a nightmare for several thousand!  How do they do this, just turn up?  Or do you have to supply a swim time and they seed you from there?

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Why don't they do wave starts? Surely that would help, and keep it competitive for those that want it? 

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I’m totally confused. I thought the zones were within age groups, but some say it’s over all.  That is REALLY weird because zone 1 is sub  30 minutes.  I do not consider myself a strong swimmer but on a good day I go under 30 minutes.  It’s going to be a b@#$y big zone 1.

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1 hour ago, Cat Lady said:

That is REALLY weird because zone 1 is sub  30 minutes.

Did you get that from thw Noosa site? Or from a 70.3 site? i think this might be the first time they are doing a rolling start on a standard distance race...

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5 hours ago, rory-dognz said:

I don't like them because

stand in que to register

stand in portaloo que

stand in que to start

stand in que to get post race drink

no hype, no gun, just stand in a que

I understand the safety issues but just lacks the feel of a mass/wave start

If you want to see hype up a start watch the footage of IMNZ from the whaka come in to the gun of a mass start. 

On the upside, there's no pressure on the portaloo que because there's no start time to rush to 👍

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12 hours ago, Bosco said:

I get it and accept It. But those f*ckers who do not put on the category marker on calf annoy me. It should be an instant DQ.....

I've never  seen or been in a single race that does this?

Edited by FatPom

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8 hours ago, BogFrog said:

That sucks ass. The two times i swam with blokes I was either dunked (arm on each shoulder and shoved under water) or bashed over the head

This why male & female races will be good for the big events. It worked extremely well for the 70.3 WC in Nice. 

It also created more spectators on course (both days). The only problem I noticed was a number of female athletes cheating on the Saturday. They had their husbands pacing them on a bike during the run & pouring water over them to keep cool.

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9 hours ago, Cat Lady said:

I’m totally confused. I thought the zones were within age groups, but some say it’s over all.  That is REALLY weird because zone 1 is sub  30 minutes.  I do not consider myself a strong swimmer but on a good day I go under 30 minutes.  It’s going to be a b@#$y big zone 1.

I've only done it once (last year) in what I found to be choppy difficult conditions. I'm only an average swimmer and went sub-29?  That was the 29th fastest swim out of 85 in the Family Teams category - pretty ordinary.

So 30mins for zone 1 seems very generous?

We were the last wave to start - the pros had finished before we started.

Doubt we'll do it again, too many people. Byron much more enjoyable.

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Yeah, even I would be zone 1.  They have no clue!

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12 hours ago, Cat Lady said:

I’m totally confused. I thought the zones were within age groups, but some say it’s over all.  That is REALLY weird because zone 1 is sub  30 minutes.  I do not consider myself a strong swimmer but on a good day I go under 30 minutes.  It’s going to be a b@#$y big zone 1.

So i found where they have described the start and they talk about rolling starts within categories yet say there are only having 12 waves.  Sub 30 sounded like a very big zone to me too, yet i just looked at my category and there actually arent that may that do a sub 30... i was surprised

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2 hours ago, BogFrog said:

they talk about rolling starts within categories yet say there are only having 12 waves.

The Rolling Category Starts will be available from Monday 16 September and will list the order of the Rolling Starts. Start times will be released once category sizes are finalised.

Category Information

Elite Athlete – Athletes must have a current TA Elite Licence to enter this category. Will be first to start in a traditional wave start.

Para Athlete - Will start within 10min of 1st start.

Open Age Group - Will start within 20min of 1st start.

Mates Premium - Will start within 20min of 1st start.

Smiling for Smiddy - Will start within 20min of 1st start

Legends Club - Legends who have opted to race in the Legends category will start within 60min of 1st start

Charity Heroes - Will start within 100min of 1st start

Age Group Athletes, Mates, Clydesdales, Athenas - Will start between 30min and 155min of 1st start

Teams - Will start between 170min and 195min of 1st start.

**All timings subject to change

Originally from: https://ap.ironman.com/triathlon/events/asiapac/multisports/noosa/athlete-info/2019-swim-starts.aspx#ixzz5zSWAuj8m

 

I've read it a few times and I'm not sure how it's going to work.

You'll still be waiting 2.5 hours for some AG to start and 3 hours for the teams.

End result???

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2 hours ago, Tyno said:

End result???

Lots of people will be off the course by the time others start, so they figure they can cram more starters into the race.

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3 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Lots of people will be off the course by the time others start, so they figure they can cram more starters into the race.

That happens already. I remember a few times watching friends in other age groups finish before I even head to swim start.

End result, they pretend they're doing something and they get to keep taking in the profits. Only way to reduce congestion is reduce entry numbers. And we all know that won't happen.

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40 minutes ago, AA7 said:

That happens already. I remember a few times watching friends in other age groups finish before I even head to swim start..

I see that at most 2xu events in Melbourne 

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Zone 1 will be a cluster ****, especially out of the water. Might have to take in nutrition to survive the lineup... balls to this. 

Let me roll the dice on a good wave start any day. 

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7 hours ago, Tyno said:

The Rolling Category Starts will be available from Monday 16 September and will list the order of the Rolling Starts. Start times will be released once category sizes are finalised.

Category Information

Elite Athlete – Athletes must have a current TA Elite Licence to enter this category. Will be first to start in a traditional wave start.

Para Athlete - Will start within 10min of 1st start.

Open Age Group - Will start within 20min of 1st start.

Mates Premium - Will start within 20min of 1st start.

Smiling for Smiddy - Will start within 20min of 1st start

Legends Club - Legends who have opted to race in the Legends category will start within 60min of 1st start

Charity Heroes - Will start within 100min of 1st start

Age Group Athletes, Mates, Clydesdales, Athenas - Will start between 30min and 155min of 1st start

Teams - Will start between 170min and 195min of 1st start.

**All timings subject to change

Originally from: https://ap.ironman.com/triathlon/events/asiapac/multisports/noosa/athlete-info/2019-swim-starts.aspx#ixzz5zSWAuj8m

 

I've read it a few times and I'm not sure how it's going to work.

You'll still be waiting 2.5 hours for some AG to start and 3 hours for the teams.

End result???

That isn't a rolling start.

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Hopefully they're not using last year's swim times as a proxy for zone sizes as conditions were a bit of an aberration. Add 2-3 mins if so. 

Zone 1 under 26/27 maybe... 

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Quote

Q. How does a Rolling Category Start work?

Athletes within each Rolling Category Start will self-seed themselves into 4 Start Zones according to their overall predicted swim time. The Start Zones will then be marshalled towards the start line, being released in pairs.

The four different Start Zones are:
Zone 1 - Under 30 minutes
Zone 2 - Between 30 -33 minutes
Zone 3 - Between 34 – 37 minutes
Zone 4 - Over 38 minutes

The Rolling Category Start will continue from Zone 1 to Zone 4 until all athletes in that Rolling Category Start have crossed the timing mat and commenced the swim. The next Rolling Category Start will then self-seed into the 4 Start Zones and this process will be repeated until all Rolling Category Starts have commenced the swim.



Originally from: https://ap.ironman.com/triathlon/events/asiapac/multisports/noosa/athlete-info/2019-swim-starts.aspx#ixzz5zZTzFKBA

2

 

for me I think this sounds sucky, for all of the previous but also:

based on the swim results from the past four Noosa's (handy thing, having 36 years of data on a database)

  • 39% of the field actually swam under 30 min (to the timing point)
  • 22% <33 min
  • 21% <37 min
  • 18% >37 min

and those are the actual figures not what people "estimate" their finish ties to be....

And this is before ppl just "estimate" based on what time of the day they would rather race/exercise

So it looks to me like the whole first group will just become an absolutely un-policable draft fest / possibly crash fest.

Does this apply to the pro waves as well? (apparently not - OK so they get a race and we get an expensive participation event.

Is this still a race or just a group multisports activity?

Do we just happily skip into the water n pairs based on our estimations within the four "zones" so 2000  actual start waves?

And none of this is not really well explained on their site at the moment.

Starts to feel like f#@% the (non-pro, non-junior field) a bit like the ITU (oh, hang on, it was both of them at the Gold Coast last september....)

And my best swim time at Noosa was 17:12 so can I start like 1st (given that that was faster than any swim time in the past four years.... LOL)

Edited by trifun
extra thoughts

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On 14/09/2019 at 11:41 AM, Tyno said:

The Rolling Category Starts will be available from Monday 16 September and will list the order of the Rolling Starts. Start times will be released once category sizes are finalised.

Category Information

Elite Athlete – Athletes must have a current TA Elite Licence to enter this category. Will be first to start in a traditional wave start.

Para Athlete - Will start within 10min of 1st start.

Open Age Group - Will start within 20min of 1st start.

Mates Premium - Will start within 20min of 1st start.

Smiling for Smiddy - Will start within 20min of 1st start

Legends Club - Legends who have opted to race in the Legends category will start within 60min of 1st start

Charity Heroes - Will start within 100min of 1st start

Age Group Athletes, Mates, Clydesdales, Athenas - Will start between 30min and 155min of 1st start

Teams - Will start between 170min and 195min of 1st start.

**All timings subject to change

Originally from: https://ap.ironman.com/triathlon/events/asiapac/multisports/noosa/athlete-info/2019-swim-starts.aspx#ixzz5zSWAuj8m

 

I've read it a few times and I'm not sure how it's going to work.

You'll still be waiting 2.5 hours for some AG to start and 3 hours for the teams.

End result???

And I count 13 waves there not twelve as stated (the above list but divide Age Group into 4  waves and teams into 2 waves), if that is correct then it does not bode well (that they cant add up).

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1 hour ago, trifun said:

And I count 13 waves there not twelve as stated (the above list but divide Age Group into 4  waves and teams into 2 waves), if that is correct then it does not bode well (that they cant add up).

They can add up real well. $318 + $318 + 318 +.............................

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Totally agree trifun, the release doesn't even make sense, are they using waves for this or what, I'll guess that there will be 2000 to 3000 people who expect to swim under 30 minutes, why on earth are they doing this stupidity when the waves work, drafting will not be reduced nor crowding, and as for it being a race, well, looks to me like a group training exercise , total crap

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From Noosa Tri

"We will have 12 Category Start Group, within these groups you will self-seed within one of the 4 start zones which are by time. 

The category groups will be released today and this may help you understand more. 

We are taking on the feedback received about the start zone times. "

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2 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Start zone 1 within each category should be for people interested in racing for an AG podium.

Any system that lets people self nominate is going to be a total CF.

Then, so are the alternatives.

Even if it is the FOTP folks going off in roll 1, you could still find yourself giving up a few seconds to that person you normally beat out of the water. You just introduce a different set of variables each second.

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52 minutes ago, Tyno said:

Any system that lets people self nominate is going to be a total CF.

Then, so are the alternatives.

Even if it is the FOTP folks going off in roll 1, you could still find yourself giving up a few seconds to that person you normally beat out of the water. You just introduce a different set of variables each second.

Zone 1, or whatever you want to call it should be wave start, with rolling after that for folk who aren't after a podium. If you aren't in the wave at the start, then you aren't "racing".

I agree, having people nominate where they want to be will be a shit-fight, but maybe offer some incentive, like $10 lower entry to not be "racing" for a podium.

 

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26 minutes ago, BogFrog said:

So the category starts are out...  Looks like men and women together I think?!?!?

https://ap.ironman.com/~/media/23fa7c7a93274a9881606da825baadc0/ntmsf rolling category start order.pdf

Yep.

Not sure if I'm stupid, but I fail to see how this reduces congestion. Can anyone explain it simply to me?

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Yep.

Not sure if I'm stupid, but I fail to see how this reduces congestion. Can anyone explain it simply to me?

Got an email from them yesterday and they confirmed males and females will go off together. Claim the rolling start will be safer ???, I can see drafting and cheating for podium spots getting worse especially with males and females together, ladies swimming with partners etc and getting paced through the race and many other variations.

Crap idea, it is a race, sick of reducing everything to the lowest common denominator, can't swim don't do triathlons, simple, there bound to be a Mud run or something else that sounds good at work the following week.

 

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Does it really matter?

Isn't it a draftfest and a race for giggles?

A bit like City to Surf?

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6 minutes ago, Peter said:

A bit like City to Surf?

That's how I've always seen from the outside looking having never done it.

It's like THE City to Surf of the Triathlon wold.

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40 minutes ago, Peter said:

Does it really matter?

Isn't it a draftfest and a race for giggles?

A bit like City to Surf?

We are paying big money, so yes it does matter. A good way to ruin a race experience, it's my daughters first Oly distance and I'd like her to actually have a good experience, a very quick swimmer who will end up have pathetic blokes blocking her on the bike  ( seen it all too often) because they don't want a girl to pass them, going to be even worse for her starting with all the under 30's when her 16-19 wave was by itself before

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I suppose if they are going to make it a participant event then everyone should get a finishers medal 🤔

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1 hour ago, Cat Lady said:

I suppose if they are going to make it a participant event then everyone should get a finishers medal 🤔

I see what you did there. 

 

929F4CDF-811E-4C00-9540-EBBACD650AFB.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Cat Lady said:

I suppose if they are going to make it a participant event then everyone should get a finishers medal 🤔

Would a towel and visor be ok?

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5 hours ago, Peter said:

Does it really matter?

Isn't it a draftfest and a race for giggles?

A bit like City to Surf?

"Preferred runners start" man (just don't trip)!

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