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FatPom

Could you run 100 miles in 24hrs?

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I hadn't heard of this event until recently.  i work very close to Reading but the solo entries for next year are all gone, so I've entered Leeds.  The course is 8km with a couple of hills.  On paper, 100mile sounds 'doable' as it works out at 20 x 1hr laps, which leaves 4hrs for faffing.  However I'm sure the reality would be completely different.

How far do you reckon you would get?

https://www.endure24.co.uk/

 

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It's something I think about.

I'm in no shape to do it now, or the last 7 years or more.

I think about it though.

How would Ibreak it up? 

1 or 2 "long" breaks?

Regular shorter breaks? Kinda like transitions.

How would I restart after a break?

What sort of performance drop off after what duration?

How bad is the fatigue at 3 or 4  or 5 am or all of them?

Its a long way from 30 min run/walk to 24 hours of it though.

 

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My plan would be regular short breaks, maybe alternate a walking lap in there for the brain, and the chance to keep moving but eat properly

 

Not Sure I could make the 100, but would guve it a go! 

Done 30hr on the bike and of course 29 run. You need to find what works for you

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When the records are 135 for Males and 130 for females I don't imagine 100 miles being achieved by most folk.

It is amazing how much time bleeds once your are to the point of walking and not returning, not that I've ever personally been there.

80-90 should be achievable by most 100 if you're dedicated and 110 fully prepared.

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Thanks all, good comments. I'd like to think I could give 85 a nudge.  I read an interesting report by a guy that managed to do 100 on his third attempt. Interestingly, he said he in his opinion, he stuffed up the first two times by going to slowly in the first half.

His theory was that it is possible to go too slowly early on and due to fatigue, you don't save enough energy to cash in on the back half, even with your earlier slow pace because you tend to slow down, no matter what.

Edited by FatPom

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10 hours ago, nealo said:

When the records are 135 for Males and 130 for females I don't imagine 100 miles being achieved by most folk.

 

Assuming that is that course only?

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I think i could have pre dislocated hip. (based on 100km in 13hr 45min Tarawea Ultra in 2015)

Now almost certainly not, this is more based on the ability to train to get the physical conditioning.

My strategy would have been to

  • start at a comfortable pace, knowing will fade 
  • walk the hill on the first 3 laps to get a taste of how hard, then make decision on walk hill strategy after that
  • minimize stationary time at transition. basically eat moving and only stop for sock/shoe changes, grabbing food.
  • Focus on food intake for the first 8hr (daylight when body is used to eating)

while 8km/hr sounds easy, if you spend 5 min each lap stationary at the transition/base that is 8km/55min of moving time (8.7km/hr)

 

Good luck

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On 30/07/2019 at 6:57 PM, FatPom said:

I hadn't heard of this event until recently.  i work very close to Reading but the solo entries for next year are all gone, so I've entered Leeds.  The course is 8km with a couple of hills.  On paper, 100mile sounds 'doable' as it works out at 20 x 1hr laps, which leaves 4hrs for faffing.  However I'm sure the reality would be completely different.

How far do you reckon you would get?

https://www.endure24.co.uk/

 

8 km/hour sounds so simple on paper but it's a remarkably different thing in reality, when you've been pushing for 18 hours and it's the graveyard hours.

Start (very) slowly. Walk early, walk often. Try to eliminate faffing and concentrate on keeping moving.

I'm not sure I would crack 100 miles now. Body is too knocked about. Training is sporadic and minimal. There's only so much you can that experience and race smarts can compensate for. I just settle for an occasional 50 km these days.

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On 30/07/2019 at 10:13 PM, FatPom said:

I read an interesting report by a guy that managed to do 100 on his third attempt. Interestingly, he said he in his opinion, he stuffed up the first two times by going to slowly in the first half.

His theory was that it is possible to go too slowly early on and due to fatigue, you don't save enough energy to cash in on the back half, even with your earlier slow pace because you tend to slow down, no matter what.

I'd like to read the report. On the face of what you say, I'd guess it wasn't his slow start that let him down in the first two attempts.

More likely he crumbled because they were simply his first two attempts and he eventually succeeded because he then had three years of ultra running in his legs.

It's near impossible to totally screw up a long ultra by going too slowly in the initial hours. You don't lose much time by dialing back your pace by a km/hour or so in the first 6 hours. If you can run strongly in the last 6, you can pick up 3 or 5km/hour. That's the difference between being reduced to a death march and running well.

Initial "high speed" impacts fatigue late in the race, not low speed.

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On 31/07/2019 at 9:09 AM, rory-dognz said:

My strategy would have been to

  • start at a comfortable pace, knowing will fade 
  • walk the hill on the first 3 laps to get a taste of how hard, then make decision on walk hill strategy after that
  • minimize stationary time at transition. basically eat moving and only stop for sock/shoe changes, grabbing food.
  • Focus on food intake for the first 8hr (daylight when body is used to eating)

while 8km/hr sounds easy, if you spend 5 min each lap stationary at the transition/base that is 8km/55min of moving time (8.7km/hr)

That's really good advice. I'd only make one small change.

Walk the hill every lap, from the first lap.

  • Walking the hill will conserve energy. Energy that you will need and will be better spent later in the race.
  • Periodic, regular walking will extend the length of time you can run efficiently, (hopefully extend it to 24 hours :)).
  • The discrepancy in pace between running and walking is smallest on a hill. As well as being energy efficient, uphills are the most time efficient section to walk.
  • Walking breaks are the easiest and most comfortable time to ingest food and fluids. Aim to do as much of your eating as possible while walking the hill.
  • Walk strongly, with purpose.
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On 30/07/2019 at 10:13 PM, FatPom said:

Thanks all, good comments. I'd like to think I could give 85 a nudge. 

It's not technical trail, there's no massive hills and you're accumulating some good ultra experience.

I reckon you should consider 100 miles. I think you can do it with the right approach and execution.

It's a touch over 6.7 km/hour. Plenty of people walk 100 miles in 24 hours, though they are strong, disciplined and trained walkers. Though that doesn't mean running 100 miles is necessarily easy, but certainly possible.

Edited by Paul Every
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This is great stuff, thanks Paul.  Just heading to work but I will try and remember where I read that race report and post up a link. Would definitely be interested in your thoughts.

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Here ya go Paul, he talks about in the third fourth paragraph.  I think this is the one I read. maybe I am misunderstanding what he's saying?

 

Quote

If you look at the results, all of the runners slow down as the event goes on. Even the winner, who did an amazing 135 miles, slowed down by almost 4 hours between the first and second halves of his run. You just can’t save enough energy early on by going really slowly to be able to keep to the same pace. So, I slowed down. 13½ minute miles for the next 10.

 

https://thejoggersjournal.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/race-report-endure-24-solo/

 

 

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I'm not sure the link is working, FP, but that's OK.

From what you quoted, I think the take home message is "Everyone tires, everyone slows. The runners that finish strongest and have their best races are the ones who are able to control how little their pace drops."

Of all the things that may influence that outcome, the two biggest are within our control. One before the race, (training), and one during, (pacing).

It sounds so obvious and simple, but so often we get it wrong, especially in the longer ultras.

I remember discussing this with Martin Fryer a few years ago, (Martin is ranked 4th on the Aust all-time list for 24 Hours with 259km), and he commented, "People really struggle with the concept of budgeting their energy expenditure over 24 hours."

 

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Thanks Paul, yeah that makes sense.  It's very hard to hold back at the start. I think really technical starts are even harder because you feel compelled to make up time once you can run again.

Experience and patience, I don't have enough of either but have more than I did at the start of the year. 😎

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Signed up for a 7hr/7km lap flat gravel/path race on Nov 24th.  Figured if I can't handle 7hrs, then 24 might be a tough ask!

It's at Greenham Common, which will be cold, definitely windy and probably wet.  No B52s though :lol:

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Ultras are becoming quite popular in WA. Obviously a lot of people are going to walk for portions of the run, but looking at the times, it seems people are walking for most/all of it?

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41 minutes ago, zed said:

Ultras are becoming quite popular in WA. Obviously a lot of people are going to walk for portions of the run, but looking at the times, it seems people are walking for most/all of it?

 the course could be very undulating, i dont think times are that much of a true guide to fitness..

but even walking 100km is quite a feat... I wouldnt wanna do it

i am sure there was a thread on here about someone doing an ultra on no run training...and quite the argument ensued...

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5 minutes ago, pieman said:

 the course could be very undulating, i dont think times are that much of a true guide to fitness..

but even walking 100km is quite a feat... I wouldnt wanna do it

i am sure there was a thread on here about someone doing an ultra on no run training...and quite the argument ensued...

yeah to be fair all of them seem to be on hilly bush trails so times will be slow. 

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My best time for Ironman - 10.03. My best time for 100km - 24 hours. Sign me up for Ironman any day!!!!!! 

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I watched last night a doco on Courtney Dauwalter running 200miles. Wow. 48 hours was the goal. The course looked hard. Running around a lake. It was a bloody big lake. 

In this one, and others I’ve seen on my ultra video binges, sitting down at aid stations and getting food in seem to be the norm for the top runners. They’ve got a support crew though who will be at each aid station. Getting calories in and keeping them down would be something the body needs to get used to. A toothbrush is also a common piece of race equipment 

A multi lap race makes it easier to have a good setup. Easier again if you’ve got a crew. 

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Check out some of the CheckPoint pictures from Blackall 100 a few weeks ago. The amount and variety of food supplied by volunteers for in race consumption totally eclipses anything I’ve seen for post race Tri event feeds. 

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On 01/11/2019 at 9:49 PM, Kenneth said:

I watched last night a doco on Courtney Dauwalter running 200miles. Wow. 48 hours was the goal. The course looked hard. Running around a lake. It was a bloody big lake. 

In this one, and others I’ve seen on my ultra video binges, sitting down at aid stations and getting food in seem to be the norm for the top runners. They’ve got a support crew though who will be at each aid station. Getting calories in and keeping them down would be something the body needs to get used to. A toothbrush is also a common piece of race equipment 

A multi lap race makes it easier to have a good setup. Easier again if you’ve got a crew. 

It depends on the race. Some races, crews are allowed at all stations and some races crews are only allowed at certain stations.  I’ve seen that doco on CD she’s a bloody legend.

Have a look at the films from Billy Yang, he captures aid stations very well. The way that some of the fast runners can get food and water swaps done is very impressive.

Edited by FatPom

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That aid station looks amazing! 

I’ve watched a couple of billy yang’s movies now. They’re great. Watched the one on Hardrock last night. There are some epic events around

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12 hours ago, Kenneth said:

That aid station looks amazing! 

I’ve watched a couple of billy yang’s movies now. They’re great. Watched the one on Hardrock last night. There are some epic events around

Yeah, the US blessed with some epic trail races and great history around them. If you don’t already, check out The Ginger Runner channel. He interviews a trail racer every Monday, does kit reviews and has and has some great trail running clips.

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38 minutes ago, Kenneth said:

Consider it done. I already like him just knowing he’s a fellow ginger. 

Well if it’s a Ginger thing, you could check out Wild Ginger Running in the UK. Personally, I don’t like it as I find Clare Maxted, rather odd!

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On 01/11/2019 at 12:47 PM, zed said:

yeah to be fair all of them seem to be on hilly bush trails so times will be slow. 

Don't underestimate how slow, steep or technical some trails can be. Even in WA.

Go for a run out at Wungong and hit the single track. Some quite exciting descents. Or sign up for Bloated Goat next March. It's only 30km. :devil2:

http://www.perthtrailseries.com.au/event/bloated-goat

Edited by Paul Every
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On 01/11/2019 at 11:57 AM, zed said:

Ultras are becoming quite popular in WA. Obviously a lot of people are going to walk for portions of the run, but looking at the times, it seems people are walking for most/all of it?

With the gradient and surface of some hills in some trail ultras, there is often literally nothing to gained by running. Any time gains may be marginal at best, and you're dipping into your energy stores that are better utilised later in the race on runnable terrain.

Often enough, I've seen a competitor breathing laboriously to run up a climb, while I've stayed on their heels, walking strongly and efficiently to reach the top with a much lower heart rate. Like any race, it's all about pacing.

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On 02/11/2019 at 12:12 PM, Tyno said:

Check out some of the CheckPoint pictures from Blackall 100 a few weeks ago. The amount and variety of food supplied by volunteers for in race consumption totally eclipses anything I’ve seen for post race Tri event feeds. 

I've had some impressive food at ultra aid stations, (and some quite peculiar things too).

I used to particularly look forward to some at Glasshouse Mountains 100 Mile. One couple always provided homemade Cornish pasties at about 60km, though I most anticipated the late night isolation of the 130 km aid station, and seeing Jane, the wife of race stalwart Bill Thompson. Mulberries and hopefully late-season custard apples, freshly picked form their farm that day. Camembert and olives, and usually a special something with lots of fresh chili for Bill and I.

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