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Wanda Sports Group

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Down from $8.

They also pay a licencing fee to Marvel for the use of the Ironman name.  Have done so for decades.

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1 hour ago, goughy said:

Down from $8.

They also pay a licencing fee to Marvel for the use of the Ironman name.  Have done so for decades.

Yeah I read that. Hilarious. 

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4 hours ago, goughy said:

Down from $8.

They also pay a licencing fee to Marvel for the use of the Ironman name.  Have done so for decades.

Crazy.  Half marvels luck but I can’t believe they haven’t found a new name. 

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10 hours ago, goughy said:

Down from $8.

They also pay a licencing fee to Marvel for the use of the Ironman name.  Have done so for decades.

And Mistral ?

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Below $5 now and not likely going to see much recovery. If they get to $4.50 I'll seriously consider adding them to my portfolio just cause. 

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But what exactly are you buying?  I had a quick look at the prospectus they put out and was confused.  They acquired Insight plus WTC for ~$1.8BN USD and have raised just over $200M USD by this share issue and say they're still headquartered in China.  Looks like they've done a partial sell down and there's also talk of class A and B shares with class B having the voting rights whereas it's the class A that were offloaded. I may well have missed the screamingly obvious here so welcome a better explanation as to what's going on. 

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+ what percentage of these shares owns WTC / all the running events like the Auckland marathon etc....

They didn't list 100% of everything.  But not sure what the end result was.

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My concern... Can this slump in share price be an indicator of a more concerning bigger picture... Could this drop in share price be an indicator of growing concern over looming economic downturn/confidence. Leisure sports are not a necessity and therefore when people tighten up on their disposable income the first things to suffer is entertainment whether that be hobbies, dining out etc. It could also be that you would have to be a bit of a fool to purchase  an IPO with over $1bn in debt.. just my observations however...

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If it helps check the ASX today.  It's crashed heavy.

USA is down 3% over the last few days.

Everything is going down at the moment

image.png.5b1c518c82bc330b2d289c42cf9bb4ac.png

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2 hours ago, Sebee said:

My concern... Can this slump in share price be an indicator of a more concerning bigger picture... Could this drop in share price be an indicator of growing concern over looming economic downturn/confidence. Leisure sports are not a necessity and therefore when people tighten up on their disposable income the first things to suffer is entertainment whether that be hobbies, dining out etc. It could also be that you would have to be a bit of a fool to purchase  an IPO with over $1bn in debt.. just my observations however...

They're too heavy on debt more than anything. They've got some good quality events in there that will do pretty well no matter what the economic climate. There's a lot of events that made it through the GFC just fine. 

I think it's more that we're seeing now what it's actually worth. I though about $4.50 was ok, but he reality is that could be $3 before too long. 

The whole Chinese owned and HQ thing might not be on its side either considering the current anti China climate/attitude being created by the US. 

2 hours ago, Peter said:

If it helps check the ASX today.  It's crashed heavy.

USA is down 3% over the last few days.

Everything is going down at the moment

I thought we would've lost more than that today... That's not too bad over 5 days though. If we lose that again I'm the next week there will be a fair few nervous folks. 

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The PTO are trying to buy Wanda.

https://www.endurancebusiness.com/2020/industry-news/pto-renews-interest-in-acquiring-ironman/

3rd February 2020

Board of Directors, Wanda Sports Group Company Limited
Andrew Messick, Chief Executive Officer, World Triathlon Corporation

Dear Members of the Board:

We are writing on behalf of the Professional Triathletes Organisation (the “PTO”) to advise you that we have closed on our partnership financing with Crankstart Investments. We again want to put forth our proposal to enter into discussions for the acquisition by the PTO of all of the assets of the Wanda Sports Group Company Limited (“WSG”) related to its worldwide triathlon and mass participation business (the “WTC Business”).

The PTO is prepared to consider an all-cash transaction or one in which the existing shareholders of WSG are able to participate in the growth of the WTC Business that the PTO is uniquely positioned to deliver. We strongly believe that it is only with the assistance of the PTO and its professional athletes that the WTC Business has the ability to stabilise and grow, and that without our cooperation the WTC Business would deteriorate. We are happy to work with any other financially stable group who may be interested in acquiring the WTC Business, reducing its debt load and unleashing the value only the PTO and its professional athletes can deliver.

The PTO and North Point Advisors, our financial advisors, are prepared to begin discussions forthwith with your senior management and your financial advisors and to sign a customary confidentiality agreement in order to commence certain confirmatory due diligence. In light of the significance of this proposal to your shareholders and the triathlon community, as well as the potential for selective disclosures, we will publicly release the text of this letter tomorrow morning.

We believe this proposal represents a unique opportunity to realise significant value for WSG shareholders and employees, and that the PTO can uniquely provide a healthy and growing environment for the WTC Business.

We hope that you and your Board share our enthusiasm and, consistent with applicable fiduciary duties, we look forward to a prompt and favourable reply.

Respectfully yours,
Charles D. Adamo – Chairman
Sam Renouf – Chief Executive Officer
Rachel Joyce – Co-President
Tim O’Donnell – Co-President

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So this would be a 'not for profit' representing professionals, looking to acquire a business that would contribute to the livelihood of said professionals? 

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Interesting timing, you would imagine that the price would currently be down with Chinas current situation, but then again Triathlon seems to have passed its peak as well. 

Just now, xblane said:

So this would be a 'not for profit' representing professionals, looking to acquire a business that would contribute to the livelihood of said professionals? 

yeah was thinking the same thing. The members will only want one thing, more money i.e prize money. Given sponsors are hard to come by, that woudl only come from higher race entry fees, which could potentially cause participants to turn away and cause a spiral. 

Time for Challenge to lift its game. 

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17 minutes ago, xblane said:

So this would be a 'not for profit' representing professionals, looking to acquire a business that would contribute to the livelihood of said professionals? 

I've listened to a few interviews on podcasts in the last week with the CEO of the PTO and the guy that's backing it, is worth about a few billion. About 3 I think.

Given Ironman / wanda is currently in debt about 600 million given how the previous owners (hedge fund) borrowed against Ironman before selling to the chinese, you'd think that wanda are going to want to at least clear their debt.

So lets for fun, just say the PTO buy Ironman for 500 million USD.

I can't see how a guy that made all his money from smart investing, would just throw away 500 million because he loves the sport.

And make no mistake, the Athletes DO NOT OWN the PTO.  It is one guy. Michael Moritz and his company, Crankstart Investments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Moritz

Net worth, Increase US$3.7 billion (November 2019).

Mind you I could be wrong.  I was once before.

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

Mind you I could be wrong.  I was once before.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

FM

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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken

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9 hours ago, Flanman said:

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

FM

He's correct, only been wrong the once, started around the age of 2, we haven't seen the end of it... 😋

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"Not for profit" is a slippery term.

It's sometimes used to refer to a "non profit" corporation – e.g. a charity – that takes in money, pays for its own operational expenses (including salaries, which might be generous) and spends the rest on a public purpose. Some race organisations are set up that way, sometimes because it is a community event (like the Challenge Wanaka Sports Trust) or sometimes so they can use volunteer labor and so people who donate things can account for it as a charitable contribution. Or because the owner thinks it's a good tax dodge. Vineman was set up as a non-profit – apparently complicated WTC's acquisition of the race.

But not for profit is more commonly used to describe a pass-through corporation, like a cooperative. The corporation can make profits, but those are passed through to the members/owners, who then have to pay tax on the gains. Nothing inherently shady about it, but like anything else it can be used for shady purposes. Like letting people make the wrong assumption and think they're doing business with a charity.

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