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4 minutes ago, monkie said:

Oh, and interest rates have been close to zero for years. The Tory "austerity" and therefore massive increase in dept was ideologically rather than economically driven. Government debt is fine as long as you have a currency that is subject to free market pressure. It becomes an issue where you have a government that decides to either "print" its way out of trouble (CF Venezuela) or a currency union without fiscal union (CF Greece and Italy).

do the usa print thier way 

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3 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

do the usa print thier way 

No, they have a stable increasing government debt. As long as interest rates are below the rate of inflation then the value of their debt actually decreases every year.

E2A this is not currently true, but it will be again soon.

Edited by monkie

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Plus the only thing that actually matters is the the creditors believe they will be repaid. 

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9 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

Interesting that conservatives tend to say don't borrow, debt is bad, when it suits them.

Just do clarify, the honest conservative position on debt is 'don't borrow excessively to pay for useless unproductive shit like replacement school halls and mailing $900 cheques to dead people' 

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1 minute ago, IronJimbo said:

Just do clarify, the honest conservative position on debt is 'don't borrow excessively to pay for useless unproductive shit like replacement school halls and mailing $900 cheques to dead people' 

I think it's the honest position on debt. Irrespective of angle. Borrowing for infrastructure or to cover short term economic downturn is a sensible thing to do. Where "the left" and "the right" have both let themselves down in the past is growing debt for non-infrastructure projects during times of economic growth.

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In the same way people don't tend to say having a mortgage is bad, nor is running up a credit card debt to meet an unexpected need (like your washing machine breaks and you don't have the ready cash to buy a new one). However racking up debt on a CC to cover your day to day eating out etc. is living beyond your means.

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where is the all the infrastructure in oz, the debt is certainly up. Would like to see the Kings Highway upgraded

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Our Labor government put $1B on our credit card to NOT build a tunnel... Who said Labor were fiscally irresponsible...? 

(I know I've brought this up a few times but God it pisses me off...) 

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Just now, more said:

Our Labor government put $1B on our credit card to NOT build a tunnel... Who said Labor were fiscally irresponsible...? 

(I know I've brought this up a few times but God it pisses me off...) 

the Victorian one ?

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1 minute ago, more said:

Our Labor government put $1B on our credit card to NOT build a tunnel... Who said Labor were fiscally irresponsible...? 

(I know I've brought this up a few times but God it pisses me off...) 

It's really not a Labor / Lib issue. There's some nonsense about a stadium here in Sydney (like I said I'm not allowed to vote so I opt out of following Aus politics) and I'm pretty sure that's a Lib issue? Although am definitely not coming at this from a place of knowledge.

Either side spend / borrow irresponsibly if they think it will get them elected. Johnson is currently spending like he's won the jackpot in the UK and very little is infrastructure. Most of it is putting us back where we were in 2010 (i.e. replacing the 20,000 police officers we've lost since then).

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2 minutes ago, monkie said:

It's really not a Labor / Lib issue. There's some nonsense about a stadium here in Sydney (like I said I'm not allowed to vote so I opt out of following Aus politics) and I'm pretty sure that's a Lib issue? Although am definitely not coming at this from a place of knowledge.

Either side spend / borrow irresponsibly if they think it will get them elected. Johnson is currently spending like he's won the jackpot in the UK and very little is infrastructure. Most of it is putting us back where we were in 2010 (i.e. replacing the 20,000 police officers we've lost since then).

I don't know anything about Sydney but at least it sounds like they will get something for the money. For our $1B we got doughnuts, actually we didn't even get a doughnut, we just got the bill... 

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2 minutes ago, more said:

I don't know anything about Sydney but at least it sounds like they will get something for the money. For our $1B we got doughnuts, actually we didn't even get a doughnut, we just got the bill... 

My limited understanding is that they won't it's still just a bill... they started demolishing a stadium and then stopped? 

This article is the best I can find on it: https://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/more-sports/anz-stadium-demolition-plans-scrapped/news-story/d50c8691424041c0520ddf61a4340602

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13 minutes ago, more said:

Our Labor government put $1B on our credit card to NOT build a tunnel... Who said Labor were fiscally irresponsible...? 

(I know I've brought this up a few times but God it pisses me off...) 

The auditor General condemned both sides on that one. The Coalition should never have rushed through a contract it knew the incoming government was not going to honour and was already legally challenging.

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3 minutes ago, monkie said:

My limited understanding is that they won't it's still just a bill... they started demolishing a stadium and then stopped? 

This article is the best I can find on it: https://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/more-sports/anz-stadium-demolition-plans-scrapped/news-story/d50c8691424041c0520ddf61a4340602

Sounds to me like they have listened, scrapped the plans, are still updating the site and saving half a billion at the same time? 

Labor would have just pushed ahead and spent the $2B regardless.. 

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1 minute ago, more said:

Sounds to me like they have listened, scrapped the plans, are still updating the site and saving half a billion at the same time? 

Labor would have just pushed ahead and spent the $2B regardless.. 

I don't know the details but the second statement is dubios... The labor folks hanging around outside the voting place opposite my house kept on telling me they wouldn't have spent anything on it. It was one of their election slogans...

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25 minutes ago, monkie said:

I think it's the honest position on debt. Irrespective of angle. Borrowing for infrastructure or to cover short term economic downturn is a sensible thing to do. 

I don't disagree, contrary to Barry's supposition

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10 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

I don't disagree, contrary to Barry's supposition

I agree, I'm wondering where the infrastructure is

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15 minutes ago, monkie said:

I don't know the details but the second statement is dubios... The labor folks hanging around outside the voting place opposite my house kept on telling me they wouldn't have spent anything on it. It was one of their election slogans...

No I mean if the Labor guvnut had said they were going to spend the money-to many unions in their payroll 

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Just now, more said:

No I mean if the Labor guvnut had said they were going to spend the money-to many unions in their payroll 

I have no opinion on this. But I don't think making fake promises that spend our money is isolated to either "side" of the political spectrum.

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2 minutes ago, monkie said:

I have no opinion on this. But I don't think making fake promises that spend our money is isolated to either "side" of the political spectrum.

I could give you quite a few examples where state and federal Labor government has wasted billions of tax payers money. I'd honestly struggle to do the same for the libs... 

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5 minutes ago, more said:

I could give you quite a few examples where state and federal Labor government has wasted billions of tax payers money. I'd honestly struggle to do the same for the libs... 

NBN

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6 minutes ago, more said:

I could give you quite a few examples where state and federal Labor government has wasted billions of tax payers money. I'd honestly struggle to do the same for the libs... 

As would I.. but I could give you plenty of examples from the Tories in the UK... Johnson himself and his garden bridge... short termism in regards to cutting police numbers that they are now having to roll back... The huge amounts of money that have to be spent supporting mining communities through emergency healthcare (I've been part of those numbers, they paid SJA a huge amount for us to be there) because they were economically destroyed by Thathers policies... neither extreme ever works.

Centrism, sensible support for the destitute without promoting it, not letting people die because they are poor, spending only what needs spending not what makes you popular... is what we need. But increasingly the world is polarising and that only leads (I believe) to a worse world.

E2A After Ex's post yeah, the NBN. The international joke that always lands wherever I make it around APAC!

Edited by monkie

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