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Swimming World Champs

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3 minutes ago, more said:

You seriously think this is just because Sun is Asian... Omfg.... 

No, but part of it. No way he would have done it with an American and clearly hasn’t come out and done it with other Australians he swims with. 

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9 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Why is he not condeming the Aussie girl, other than she's hot

At this point he's probably been told to keep his trap shut on it. After one official warning last week, he's probably towing the line at this point. And as I said before, I think he's more concerned about a system that lets these cheats keep swimming. At this point, Jack isn't swimming.

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen
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10 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

No, but part of it. No way he would have done it with an American and clearly hasn’t come out and done it with other Australians he swims with. 

You've been listening to too much talkback.  Horton isnt being Racist. 

You are either winding people up or you are becoming a drama queen.

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Substance was Ligandrol. Similar to Ostarine. Apparently can be in contaminated supplements. Used to build lean muscle mass and strength. 

Edited by AA7

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8 minutes ago, Peter said:

You've been listening to too much talkback.  Horton isnt being Racist. 

You are either winding people up or you are becoming a drama queen.

He's not being racist, nothing to do with Sun Yang being Asian. But would Horton have protested if the winner was an Australian with a doping history? Jack failing a test has come at quite an inconvenient time....

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23 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

No, but part of it. No way he would have done it with an American and clearly hasn’t come out and done it with other Australians he swims with. 

of course he would of. If it was any nationality who was in his premier event with a history of doping he would do the same. racism my arse. 

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Quick google shows a UFC dude got done for the same thing, was a contaminated supplement and got 4 months.

 

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52 minutes ago, Peter said:

You've been listening to too much talkback.  Horton isnt being Racist. 

You are either winding people up or you are becoming a drama queen.

Ok then, how do you explain him not condemning his multiple team mates like Jack  and Fraser Holmes ?  

You seriously think being Australian v Chinese isn’t part of it ?  Not saying all of it, but part of it. Absolutely silent on the Australians.  Not prepared to stand on a podium with the Chinese but will swim with Fraser Holmes.  

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44 minutes ago, Prince said:

of course he would of. If it was any nationality who was in his premier event with a history of doping he would do the same. racism my arse. 

Well he hasn’t. He has swum with Fraser Holmes as part of the 4 x 200 team within the team. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

Well he hasn’t. He has swum with Fraser Holmes as part of the 4 x 200 team within the team. 

 

So if he swam with Fraser Chung instead of Holmes he would have protested? You are either drunk or trolling... 

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why did he he swim with fraser if drug use upsets him so much, based on his values he should not have swum. Of course he's not racist.

Btu he only wants to have strong values when it does not cost him very much

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1 hour ago, Oompa Loompa said:

Well he hasn’t. He has swum with Fraser Holmes as part of the 4 x 200 team within the team. 

 

Didn't he do that before FH missed the drug tests and get his ban?

Has he swum with him since? Do you know how he interacts with TFH these days? Maybe he does give him the cold shoulder in camp.

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen

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3 hours ago, more said:

You seriously think this is just because Sun is Asian... Omfg.... 

Of course it isn’t.

 

Just like the booing of Adam Goodes had nothing to do with race either: he was staging for free kicks. ...

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2 hours ago, Prince said:

of course he would of. If it was any nationality who was in his premier event with a history of doping he would do the same. racism my arse. 

Saint Mack of Horton would like to sell you a bridge. Interested? 

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2 hours ago, zed said:

He's not being racist, nothing to do with Sun Yang being Asian. But would Horton have protested if the winner was an Australian with a doping history? Jack failing a test has come at quite an inconvenient time....

See below 

1 hour ago, more said:

So if he swam with Fraser Chung instead of Holmes he would have protested? You are either drunk or trolling... 

He’s trolling.  

Anyway....

 

Quote

I was disappointed to learn late yesterday that a fellow Dolphins team member had recently returned a positive A sample," Horton said.

"I applaud the decision to immediately withdraw the athlete in question from further competition until this matter is resolved.

"My position remains firm — clean sport must be a priority for all athletes, all sports and all nations.".

Therefore Mack isn’t racist.  He is just against drug users in sport.  

Edited by Peter

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2 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Didn't he do that before FH missed the drug tests and get his ban?

Has he swum with him since? Do you know how he interacts with TFH these days? Maybe he does give him the cold shoulder in camp.

Has he swum with since ? Yes, he has, as recently as July 26, 2019 at this meet in a team event which clearly he could decline to participate or get an injury to avoid swimming in the same team within the team with someone who has a doping ban on his record. In fact as he swam in the heats, they got a gold together at this meet. 

I have zero issue with taking a stand against drugs. I congratulate him for it. Just the facts are he treats guilty Australians different to guilty Chinese.

heat 2 - July 26.

http://www.fina.org/competition-detailed-results/18th-fina-world-championships-2019-men-4x200m-freestyle-relay/event

 

Edited by Oompa Loompa

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

See below 

He’s trolling.  

Anyway....

 

Therefore Mack isn’t racist.  He is just against drug users in sport.  

“He is just against drug users in sport” except people in his own relay team within the Australian team with doping violations.  

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5 hours ago, Oompa Loompa said:

“He is just against drug users in sport” except people in his own relay team within the Australian team with doping violations.  

Fraser-Holmes was never shown to have used drugs though.

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2 hours ago, AA7 said:

Fraser-Holmes was never shown to have used drugs though.

just miss drug tests

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12 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

just miss drug tests

Michael Rasmussen says that’s A-OK

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16 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

just miss drug tests

True. But I think 12 months for that as opposed to 3 months for actually testing positive to drugs is not right. Just reading about the TFH case, missed a couple of tests when he was looking for a new coach, so wasn't where he said he'd be and then another one when he was having dinner at his Mum's house. His evidence included the fact that he has done over 200 tests and all came back clean. 

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3 minutes ago, AA7 said:

True. But I think 12 months for that as opposed to 3 months for actually testing positive to drugs is not right. Just reading about the TFH case, missed a couple of tests when he was looking for a new coach, so wasn't where he said he'd be and then another one when he was having dinner at his Mum's house. His evidence included the fact that he has done over 200 tests and all came back clean. 

well thats great then. Lance passed his test, well most of them. Sun's coach is an aussie?  

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15 hours ago, more said:

So if he swam with Fraser Chung instead of Holmes he would have protested? You are either drunk or trolling... 

How is he trolling. Fraser Holmes was banned for 12 months for missing 3 drug tests. Arguably more serious than Sun Yang's "offences". And not only has Horton, not objected to Holmes being in the Australian team, he's swimming in the same relay team.

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6 hours ago, AA7 said:

Fraser-Holmes was never shown to have used drugs though.

3 tests in 12 months. You would think after missing the 2nd test you'd be super careful for the rest of the year. They do have an app they use.

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9 minutes ago, zed said:

How is he trolling. Fraser Holmes was banned for 12 months for missing 3 drug tests. Arguably more serious than Sun Yang's "offences". And not only has Horton, not objected to Holmes being in the Australian team, he's swimming in the same relay team.

He trolling by making it about race which is complete BS. Like I said, basically he is stating if Fraser was asian  Horton would have protested, but because he is Caucasian he has kept quiet, was a load of crap. 

There may be some degree of national allegiance but to pull the race card is just lame. 

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4 hours ago, AA7 said:

True. But I think 12 months for that as opposed to 3 months for actually testing positive to drugs is not right. Just reading about the TFH case, missed a couple of tests when he was looking for a new coach, so wasn't where he said he'd be and then another one when he was having dinner at his Mum's house. His evidence included the fact that he has done over 200 tests and all came back clean. 

It sounds a lot better than it is. 200 clean tests suggests an athlete isn't doping. A journalist (Not Bryan Fogel of Icarus fame) and triathjlete took EPO for 7 weeks following this 14 week program:

 

It would last for 14 weeks and have three phases. I would have my blood taken once a week and sent off to a lab for analysis. A doctor would monitor my health throughout.

  • Baseline - weeks 1-3: establish what my "normal" blood levels are. Performance test at end of week 3
  • Loading - weeks 4-10: undergo a programme of between 2-3 micro-dose injections of EPO per week. Each injection would be supervised. Performance test at end of week 10
  • Washout - weeks 11-14: critical phase of the experiment, when I stop taking EPO and the passport is meant to be most effective

he submitted 14 blood samples (1 taken each week) and all came back clean. And he wasn't even trying to beat the test. Unfortunately the innocent before proven guilty no longer applies when it comes to sport. Too many people have been busted for doping, 3 missed tests in 12 months is not acceptable. Perhaps if sport wasn't so tarnished by doping we could be more forgiving and lenient. 1 missed drug test is understandable, 2 is careless, 3 = you're either a dope or doping and a ban is completely justified.

 

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I haven't weighed in on this yet.  So Mack's swum with a swimmer who completed a ban period?  What exactly is his issue with Sun though?  That's he's been banned for taking drugs before, or because he believed he is still using and actively tried to avoid giving a sample?  I think that needs definition before we can say he's racist, or against drug cheats unless they're team mates, etc etc.  

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8 minutes ago, zed said:

3 tests in 12 months. You would think after missing the 2nd test you'd be super careful for the rest of the year. They do have an app they use.

I can't understand why the 2nd strike stood. He had been trying to change his location from GC to Canberra where he was with his new coach, but the App wasn't working. FINA acknowledged there was a problem with the APP, and that he'd called them, but that the system still said he was on the GC.

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1 minute ago, more said:

He trolling by making it about race which is complete BS. Like I said, basically he is stating if Fraser was asian  Horton would have protested, but because he is Caucasian he has kept quiet, was a load of crap. 

There may be some degree of national allegiance but to pull the race card is just lame. 

Gotcha. Yeah I don't think race is playing a part. 

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21 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I can't understand why the 2nd strike stood. He had been trying to change his location from GC to Canberra where he was with his new coach, but the App wasn't working. FINA acknowledged there was a problem with the APP, and that he'd called them, but that the system still said he was on the GC.

Would we be asking that same question of Sun Yang? Or would it be, he missed 3 tests = he's guilty? I suspect if the app wasn't working for him, we wouldn't give a toss, guilty. 

If we come down hard on Sun Yang, we need to come down harder on our swimmers. 3 missed drug tests, he's a drug cheat, not he was unlucky, or disorganised. That makes us look like schmucks. Because we know the same level of trust would not be afforded the likes of Sun Yang.

There was a thread in here a few years back, with people labelling Mo Farah a drug cheat because he missed 2 drug tests.....

Edited by zed

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1 hour ago, zed said:

Would we be asking that same question of Sun Yang? Or would it be, he missed 3 tests = he's guilty? I suspect if the app wasn't working for him, we wouldn't give a toss, guilty. 

If we come down hard on Sun Yang, we need to come down harder on our swimmers. 3 missed drug tests, he's a drug cheat, not he was unlucky, or disorganised. That makes us look like schmucks. Because we know the same level of trust would not be afforded the likes of Sun Yang.

There was a thread in here a few years back, with people labelling Mo Farah a drug cheat because he missed 2 drug tests.....

Yang fails a test and gets 3 month ban?

The other guy misses 3 tests and gets 12 months? 

shouldn't they at least be consistent sentences?

Thats my big issue with doping in general is the inconsistency in penalties across sports/governing bodies/national associaions or whatever...

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should she get off if the supplement she took didn't list Ligandrol in its ingredients? 

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2 minutes ago, Prince said:

should she get off if the supplement she took didn't list Ligandrol in its ingredients? 

Nup. Unless they can show some still sealed containers from the same batch that have Ligandrol in.

If the B-test showed it in her system, then she's guilty. 4 years should be the minimum.

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And on that, are any of the supplement companies storing a sample of each batch to enable testing at a later point if this comes up? 

eg: to clear their own name if an athlete claims their product must have contained a banned substance.

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1 hour ago, pieman said:

Yang fails a test and gets 3 month ban?

The other guy misses 3 tests and gets 12 months? 

shouldn't they at least be consistent sentences?

Thats my big issue with doping in general is the inconsistency in penalties across sports/governing bodies/national associaions or whatever...

It's so complex. There are some athletes that have various medical conditions, take legal meds for it, prescribed by a doctor, it's suddenly added to the banned substance list. they neglect to get a TUE and they're banned. A harsh 2 year ban would seem extreme. The ban for missed tests is aimed at drug cheats trying to avoid the tests, like Michelle Smith. Because of the brief amount of time stuff like EPO is in the system, WADA have to stick to random testing and athletes have to be accountable for their whereabouts 24/7/365 otherwise it's not going to work. And harsh penalties need to apply, if they don't athletes will miss tests all the time. I guess this means clean athletes who are disorganised/forgetful or plain unlucky will get caught up it. But they have 3 chances in 12 months. 

 

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4 hours ago, zed said:

Would we be asking that same question of Sun Yang? Or would it be, he missed 3 tests = he's guilty? I suspect if the app wasn't working for him, we wouldn't give a toss, guilty. 

If the app wasn't working I'd suspect the Chinese government hacked it, the Russian government stole the data and the Australian users were paying far too much and not getting decent speeds...

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2 hours ago, Prince said:

should she get off if the supplement she took didn't list Ligandrol in its ingredients? 

I think best case, assuming she can prove a contaminated supplement, would be a reduced  sentence, maybe 50%.

That's still 2 years.

 

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7 hours ago, nealo said:

I love Mack, we need more Macks!

Can we get anymore, we got a nation of Macks every time someone goes positive that isn’t Australian........ lol

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3 hours ago, pieman said:

Yang fails a test and gets 3 month ban?

The other guy misses 3 tests and gets 12 months? 

shouldn't they at least be consistent sentences?

Thats my big issue with doping in general is the inconsistency in penalties across sports/governing bodies/national associaions or whatever...

We don’t know the evidence, just the same system gave one 3 months and the other 12. 

Missing tests is just asking to be scrubbed, that’s a life rule whether an elite athlete or just doing a random breath test on a Highway. You’d think missing tests would just get ou 4 years so again, who knows how or why it gets watered down like Yungs. 

As for breaking vials, no idea how that will end up but if someone took my blood and didn’t have the correct authority, I’d be livid and be that pissed off it wouldn’t be funny. If they are going to test, they need to test inside the same rules they ban under and again, due process will work out there in time. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, zed said:

 

There was a thread in here a few years back, with people labelling Mo Farah a drug cheat because he missed 2 drug tests.....

He isn’t an Australian, if he was a white Australian we wouldn’t label him at all. ... lol

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12 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

 

As for breaking vials, no idea how that will end up but if someone took my blood and didn’t have the correct authority, I’d be livid and be that pissed off it wouldn’t be funny. If they are going to test, they need to test inside the same rules they ban under and again, due process will work out there in time. 

 

 

Looks like Yung and co have WADA/FINA by the balls. They didn't have 3 x letters of authorisation and the nurse didn't have the license to take blood in his province. 

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5 hours ago, more said:

He trolling by making it about race which is complete BS. Like I said, basically he is stating if Fraser was asian  Horton would have protested, but because he is Caucasian he has kept quiet, was a load of crap. 

There may be some degree of national allegiance but to pull the race card is just lame. 

The facts are Fraser is Australian and he takes no action. Yung is Chinese and he does. 

As I said, race is certainly part of it, but not all of it.  If you don’t think Yung being Chinese had anything to with it when he is swimming with people in his own team with drug issues , that’s ok. It’s your right.  

4 minutes ago, zed said:

Looks like Yung and co have WADA/FINA by the balls. They didn't have 3 x letters of authorisation and the nurse didn't have the license to take blood in his province. 

We were actually talking about that at the footy on Saturday, not to your detail above but It’s just insane that they would know the rules that well. We were wondering if the Chinese had been saving it up (racist thoughts from Shire white boys I know), though you couldn’t rely on a non compliant official showing up as it would be to big a risk. I’ll be fascinated where it all ends.

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11 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

. I’ll be fascinated where it all ends.

Yeah. From what I've read WADA are less than impressed are baying for blood (not just for testing). I don't see how they can get him though, unless there's more info that we are not privy to. 

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22 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

The facts are Fraser is Australian and he takes no action. Yung is Chinese and he does. 

As I said, race is certainly part of it, but not all of it.  If you don’t think Yung being Chinese had anything to with it when he is swimming with people in his own team with drug issues , that’s ok. It’s your right.  

We were actually talking about that at the footy on Saturday, not to your detail above but It’s just insane that they would know the rules that well. We were wondering if the Chinese had been saving it up (racist thoughts from Shire white boys I know), though you couldn’t rely on a non compliant official showing up as it would be to big a risk. I’ll be fascinated where it all ends.

I think you are confusing nationality with race. Id imagine Hortens response would have been the same if Sun Yang had been a Russian for example.

 

Edited by more

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Does not share podium with sun

shares bus and swims with Fraser 

its not racist he’d get in trouble if he boycotted his own team events and team 

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50 minutes ago, zed said:

Looks like Yung and co have WADA/FINA by the balls. They didn't have 3 x letters of authorisation and the nurse didn't have the license to take blood in his province. 

But do WADA/FINA actually need 3 letters of authorisation? that is the question. I have asked around and ASADA usually have the 1 ASADA authorised personel, one registered medical nurse to draw blood and a witness. The only difference I see here is the nurse was registered but for a different province, supposedly. A clean athlete would have no reason to even know this, they are grasping at straws and unfortunately maybe found one.. but if he was clean he would never even have found out. He would have just filled out all the official forms, had his blood taken, and signed his forms and said "see you next time" and gone to bed. Instead he refused and rang his Lawyer and manager to try to find a way out of giving his sample, they came up with the idea to check all their documentation, probably knowing it is never what they are demanding anyway. 

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Ligandrol is a pretty good drug.  No way she took it accidentally 

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21 minutes ago, Peter said:

Ligandrol is a pretty good drug.  No way she took it accidentally 

The media are all over it tonight, Enablers, spiking, facilitators..... 

steak, mushrooms....

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