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Swimming World Champs

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4 hours ago, symo said:

Finding this more interesting 

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FINA's failure to sell the world championships in Australia reflects the state of the market, which is feeling the effects of the digital economy.

For too long ch7 and ch9 thought that aussies loved swimming and they showed it 7 nights and days in a row. 

But I honestly don’t believe aussies loved swimming that much.  But they never gave us the opportunity to watch anything else. 

These world champs aren’t on tv here and I haven’t heard one person say they wanted to watch it. 

Even on sports radio I haven’t heard one person call up complaining.  Which is rare for sports radio talk back. 

People would rather watch ufc. Tennis. Cricket. 

Do we care about swimming. Athletics.  Netball. 

Sure as shit. Rugby union and soccer are dead in Australia. Swimming was dead before them both. 

Ask any Aussie in the office to name 5 current Aussie swimmers. 

Edited by Peter

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42 minutes ago, Peter said:

For too long ch7 and ch9 thought that aussies loved swimming and they showed it 7 nights and days in a row. 

But I honestly don’t believe aussies loved swimming that much.  But they never gave us the opportunity to watch anything else. 

These world champs aren’t on tv here and I haven’t heard one person say they wanted to watch it. 

Even on sports radio I haven’t heard one person call up complaining.  Which is rare for sports radio talk back. 

People would rather watch ufc. Tennis. Cricket. 

Do we care about swimming. Athletics.  Netball. 

Sure as shit. Rugby union and soccer are dead in Australia. Swimming was dead before them both. 

Ask any Aussie in the office to name 5 current Aussie swimmers. 

I love most sports. I like watching the swimming, but definitely agree that they go way overboard with the coverage of it during the Olympics. I've been watching some of this on the Swimming Australia app. Highly recommend it if anyone is keen.

They've also had high diving during the Champs (as well as water polo, synchro swimming, open water swimming). And by high dive I dont mean the 10m board. The men are jumping from 27m and the women from 20m. They obviously enter feet first and they also have people in the water to check the re-surface.

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I would love to watch swimming! And slow-mo underwater of stroke techniques, and Ana,Tsushima if the stroke styles.., I’m such a swimming nerd... and yet still suck at it myself!

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I like watching drug cheats having 'roid rage on the podium when they've been called out for being a cheat. Piss funny.

Loved how the pommy guy just said, "No" and then "f&@k off" when Sun drugman yelled for him to shake his hand and get on the podium. 

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Everyone thinks their country, their sport is clean. As with everything in the world - if there is an incentive (money,medal etc), there will be people doing everything to get it. I.e just like a Kona win and don’t get me started on tennis 

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19 hours ago, Bored@work said:

Hey Andrew, Is the Dennis Cotrell connection the reason you seem to be defending Sun?

 

Cotrell enabled Hackett’s sleeping pill addiction for years. I’m not defending him or Sun, but the self appointed sainthood of Mack Horton is risible. WADA are taking this on. The facts seem settled, so it’s just a matter of them convincing the CAS they have a case. If they can’t, then FINA is right. In the meantime, presumption of innocence an and all of that.

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29 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

Cotrell enabled Hackett’s sleeping pill addiction for years. I’m not defending him or Sun, but the self appointed sainthood of Mack Horton is risible. WADA are taking this on. The facts seem settled, so it’s just a matter of them convincing the CAS they have a case. If they can’t, then FINA is right. In the meantime, presumption of innocence an and all of that.

Yeah Horton got a letter. 

 

#suchalawyer

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On 22/07/2019 at 4:47 AM, Andrew #1 said:

It’s not up to Mack Horten. 

I heard Tracey Holmes interviewed on ABC radio this morning. She’s actually investigated both of Sun’s drug testing controversies.

2014: Sun has a long term identified heart condition. He has taken a specific medication for this for many years. In 2014 that medication was briefly on the list of drugs that you needed to apply for a TUE. Sun and his team didn’t. He got pinged for this. By the time the CAS considered his case that drug had been taken off the list that required an application for a TUE. He got a 3 month ban for being sloppy.

2018 (?) three ‘testers’ turned up at Sun’s house to take a blood sample. Two of them did not have accreditation. The third had some sort of identification but no qualification to take the sample. Sun was videoed as he gave the sample and as he rang his own doctor and the Chinese authorities. Calls were made to the actual testing company who acknowledged their **** up and the blood sample was then taken outside by a security guard and smashed whilst the process was videoed. Properly accredited personnel then turn up and retook the blood sample correctly (which was clear).

WADA then served Sun with a breach notice. He contested the notice and won. WADA have appealed. The appeal is yet to be heard.

they are the facts. Given those facts Horton is a blow hard who should have butted out. This is now an international incident. I hope Horton gets a good kicking.

SMH article states the facts a little differtly 

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/resentment-for-swimming-s-arch-villain-sun-yang-goes-beyond-doping-history-20190724-p52a93.html

"He and his team had issues with some of the identification documents of the nurse that drew the blood. According to the 59-page report of the incident, she was registered to draw blood in China but not that particular province, a technicality that ended in a long standoff and eventually, a smashed sample"

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9 hours ago, BogFrog said:

SMH article states the facts a little differtly 

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/resentment-for-swimming-s-arch-villain-sun-yang-goes-beyond-doping-history-20190724-p52a93.html

"He and his team had issues with some of the identification documents of the nurse that drew the blood. According to the 59-page report of the incident, she was registered to draw blood in China but not that particular province, a technicality that ended in a long standoff and eventually, a smashed sample"

So basically any excuse to not have his blood tested. No clean athlete would even bother to ask the nurse for their accreditation, the main WADA employee with accreditation is overseeing everything done very closely and the witness also has to sign off that procedure was followed. A nurse is a nurse.. he or she is there purely to draw the blood (as it is a medical procedure) in the presence of the other officials and it is then placed in vials that the athlete gets to look over and check first. All watch this process very closely, as is procedure.  If the vials were dirty or contained a substance.. fair enough then the athlete has the right to say no, but this is a bullshit excuse. 

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Well thought out perspective from Ross Tucker (noted sport scientist and guy who knows his stuff on doping).

https://sportsscientists.com/2019/07/the-sun-yang-mack-horton-fina-affair-dont-stare-too-long-at-the-sun-sorry/

He's basically saying that targetting Sun isn't effective as its a systematic problem. I'm unsure if I agree with that 100% but certainly a good read. 

Edited by dazmuzza

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14 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

Cotrell enabled Hackett’s sleeping pill addiction for years. I’m not defending him or Sun, but the self appointed sainthood of Mack Horton is risible. WADA are taking this on. The facts seem settled, so it’s just a matter of them convincing the CAS they have a case. If they can’t, then FINA is right. In the meantime, presumption of innocence an and all of that.

I might end up in court as a witness.

I really want to use that term 'risible', it's a ball-tearer mate....esp. now that I actually know what it means 😁

Mr lawyer - "So Mr Thompson, you drove past my clients three times to get extra dashcam footage because you thought their behaviour was 'suspicious'.  What qualifies you as an expert on suspicious behaviour?  Do you have a degree in psychology perhaps.  Or are you just a nasty racist"?

Me - "The implication that these two shitbags were not about the commit a crime is risible. They couldn't have been more obvious if they'd been carrying 6-foot placards saying 'armed robbery imminent, stay tuned'.

Mr Lawyer - "Risible eh....fair point, no more questions your honour" 😆

Edited by ComfortablyNumb
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17 minutes ago, Trier said:

So basically any excuse to not have his blood tested. No clean athlete would even bother to ask the nurse for their accreditation, the main WADA employee with accreditation is overseeing everything done very closely and the witness also has to sign off that procedure was followed. A nurse is a nurse.. he or she is there purely to draw the blood (as it is a medical procedure)

The thing is, if he was worried about her accreditation, why the hell did he let her stick a needle in him in the first place.

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Never have I ever been shown the nurse accreditation when they have knocked on my door. only the ASADA employee has shown their accreditation, never the entourage of others. Asked about and the athletes I asked all said pretty much the same thing, there is one official  accredited person then a nurse and one witness.

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15 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

Cotrell enabled Hackett’s sleeping pill addiction for years. I’m not defending him or Sun, but the self appointed sainthood of Mack Horton is risible. WADA are taking this on. The facts seem settled, so it’s just a matter of them convincing the CAS they have a case. If they can’t, then FINA is right. In the meantime, presumption of innocence an and all of that.

I don't actually agree, I 100% believe there are protected athletes in many different sports, and if everyone continues to just turn a blind eye this will continue. Sometimes someone has to have the balls to stand up and say "enough". The athletes have lost faith in the system that is meant to be there to protect them, more need to jump on board and then there might be real change. 

 

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Why don't they just test him weekly until the next Olympics.  random days but every week.

After about 6 weeks of it, you wouldn't even need to run the test everytime.   They could just store them if they needed to be tested.

Basically just make it so he couldn't even dope if he wanted to due to the over testing.

 

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It isn't about catching him doping, they have already done that, he has been positive before, it is about FINA reducing his bans and allowing him a retroactive TUE for the same medication my 89 yr old grand mother takes for her dodgy heart(she has had a heart attack and is very frail) It is about the system that allows this to go on, and the propaganda shit we are fed.  

I have to wonder if to be a world champion in any sport, you have to have a dodgy heart because Sun is not the only world champ superstar athlete who has a heart problem. We get fed the lines of this Illness and that illness since childhood, we aren't dumb, the system is broken, chronically ill ppl don't really become world champs, they often sit out the sport lessons at school because they aren't well enough to participate. Here we have a system where the ill are often winning, the healthy make up minor placings. 

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Yeah I get that but it would be easier to just catch him again but applying massive pressure for bulk testing.

It's like a guy that cheats on his wife.  They never do it just once.

Or a guy that steals from work/wherever.  They will steal again 

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I think it's way bigger than that. It's more about letting the ppl know the system isn't working and that the athletes, and also now the public, are aware and we all want change. That is what Horton and Scott and all the cheering athletes are trying to achieve. Yep Sun's case needs to happen, he hasn't been treated in the same manner as other athletes, this is what we are missing. Why does one athlete get a  retroactive TUE while others get 2 to 4 yr bans. With a 'whereabouts' violation athletes have been handed at least 1 to 2 yr bans, Sun gets let off due to a technicality. The message is now "hey FINA we can see you are protecting your biggest asset, enough!!!, CAS, do your thing and make sure it is the same as what you would do for a less powerhouse athlete because ppl are watching"

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26 minutes ago, BogFrog said:

Yay for the women's 4x200 relay team! New world record

Girls are smashing it.

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On 22/07/2019 at 12:47 PM, Andrew #1 said:

It’s not up to Mack Horten. 

I heard Tracey Holmes interviewed on ABC radio this morning. She’s actually investigated both of Sun’s drug testing controversies.

2014: Sun has a long term identified heart condition. He has taken a specific medication for this for many years. In 2014 that medication was briefly on the list of drugs that you needed to apply for a TUE. Sun and his team didn’t. He got pinged for this. By the time the CAS considered his case that drug had been taken off the list that required an application for a TUE. He got a 3 month ban for being sloppy.

2018 (?) three ‘testers’ turned up at Sun’s house to take a blood sample. Two of them did not have accreditation. The third had some sort of identification but no qualification to take the sample. Sun was videoed as he gave the sample and as he rang his own doctor and the Chinese authorities. Calls were made to the actual testing company who acknowledged their **** up and the blood sample was then taken outside by a security guard and smashed whilst the process was videoed. Properly accredited personnel then turn up and retook the blood sample correctly (which was clear).

WADA then served Sun with a breach notice. He contested the notice and won. WADA have appealed. The appeal is yet to be heard.

they are the facts. Given those facts Horton is a blow hard who should have butted out. This is now an international incident. I hope Horton gets a good kicking.

Facts my arse.

 

More like Chinese whispers. (see what I did there)

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3 hours ago, nealo said:

Facts my arse.

 

More like Chinese whispers. (see what I did there)

Cmon be careful, Andrew might get all 'risible'... 

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On 26/07/2019 at 6:44 AM, AA7 said:

Girls are smashing it.

Yeah, yeah. But let’s talk about Saint Mack of Horton. The important stuff.

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+'ve test for one of the Australian athletes - Shayna Jack. 

Which substance it is hasn't been released yet. 

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43 minutes ago, Aidan said:

+'ve test for one of the Australian athletes - Shayna Jack. 

Which substance it is hasn't been released yet. 

She’ll be okay. She hot. 

86DA519D-5D17-439C-9059-CA2D673DAC62.jpeg

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The Australian media and in general populations attitude to doping is interesting. Jack tests positive, we are very quiet. Her training partner amazes the world by beating Ledecky. If Chinese this would have been a conspiracy with fingers pointing everywhere.

The use of steroids in our elite junior programmes where strength was required was open knowledge in the 90's in basketball we even had a man child we all called bam bam, He was crap though but set a mean screen.

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38 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

The Australian media and in general populations attitude to doping is interesting. Jack tests positive, we are very quiet. Her training partner amazes the world by beating Ledecky. If Chinese this would have been a conspiracy with fingers pointing everywhere.

The use of steroids in our elite junior programmes where strength was required was open knowledge in the 90's in basketball we even had a man child we all called bam bam, He was crap though but set a mean screen.

I'm not sure this is true - it's all over the media today.  The issue is that the media keep saying 'those in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones' which is completely missing the point.  It would be hypocritical if she gets a ban, returns to swimming and the other Aussie clean swimmers are happy to get on the podium with her.

On Ledecky she was sick, pulled out of a couple of other races so may well have been a contributing factor. 

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1 hour ago, trinube said:

Let's not forget innocent until proven guilty Andrew...

And how’s it any different to the Chinese bloke. 

 

Mack Horton’s own team has the same issue, so we he won’t share a podium with the Chinese but will stay with his own team, wear the team gear, get on the team bus...... just looks like a racist hypocrite disloyal to our own flag when it’s raised. 

i wont hold my breath waiting for Horton the activist,  to hand the medal  back which was enabled by a platform, his own team,  that had drugs in the ranks.   

Edited by Oompa Loompa

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5 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

And how’s it any different to the Chinese bloke. 

 

Mack Horton’s own team has the same issue, so we he won’t share a podium with the Chinese but will stay with his own team, wear the team gear, get on the team bus...... just looks like racist hypocrite disloyal to our own flag when it’s raised. 

i wont hold my breath waiting for Horton the activist,  to hand the medal  back which was enabled by a platform, his own team,  that had drugs in the ranks.   

Do you really think he would have acted differently if Sun was German or Russian?? 

So sick of all this race bulls hit 

Edited by more

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29 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

Mack Horton’s own team has the same issue, so we he won’t share a podium with the Chinese but will stay with his own team, wear the team gear, get on the team bus...... just looks like a racist hypocrite disloyal to our own flag when it’s raised.

But this isn't a team thing. This was a personal dig at Sun and the process that has allowed him to be caught once, swim again in 3 months, then destroy vials and still be swimming at the WC. I very much doubt Mack would have launched any sort of protest if it was a different swimmer that beat him, that didn't have the record & past that Sun has.

 

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Pity that swimming australia knew what was going on, and then Horton took his stance.  And they supported him? Or were they silent? Cant remember. 

Set up to fail really. With all the ex Aussie swimmers banging on about keeping swimming clean, and how perfect the Aussies are. 

If she gets pinged, there's a lot if egg on faces. 

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6 minutes ago, Turts said:

If she gets pinged, there's a lot if egg on faces. 

Actually, if she keeps up the innocent stance, but gets pinged & gets a decent ban, there's no egg on anybody's face (except hers). One of the biggest issues people are pointing out here are the slack bans, and people escaping bans. If they come down hard on her then they look good.

And I have a horrible feeling she may just wear the brunt of this recent storm by copping a harsher ban than she would otherwise have got.

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen
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She deserves 4 years 

she also hasn’t said she is clean. 

She said she didn’t intentionally take drugs. 

Shes off for 4 years. 

Swimming Australia will come off worse than her. They tried to cover it up. 

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14 minutes ago, Peter said:

She deserves 4 years 

she also hasn’t said she is clean. 

She said she didn’t intentionally take drugs. 

Shes off for 4 years. 

Swimming Australia will come off worse than her. They tried to cover it up. 

She will be racing in the national surf lifesaving league this summer and still coaching kids. So what odds are being given to the excuses yet to be wheeled out? 

Shane Warner defence ?

it was a new type of asthma medication? 

My coach spiked my drink bottle? 

I ate tainted meat at the team BBQ the day before?

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58 minutes ago, Peter said:

Swimming Australia will come off worse than her. They tried to cover it up. 

Actually, they aren't allowed to mention it until either ASADA or the athlete themselves mentions it. Their hands were tied.

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9 hours ago, trinube said:

Let's not forget innocent until proven guilty Andrew...

Nah, that ship has sailed.  If someone's performances suddenly go through the roof in a short period of time e.g Michelle Smith,  Joe Public cannot be faulted for doubting their performances. We've been burnt too many times. Sucks for the athletes who bust their balls in training, but 40+ years of rampant doping in a multitude of high profile sports has created this environment. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not when it comes to sports.

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7 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

But this isn't a team thing. This was a personal dig at Sun and the process that has allowed him to be caught once, swim again in 3 months, then destroy vials and still be swimming at the WC. I very much doubt Mack would have launched any sort of protest if it was a different swimmer that beat him, that didn't have the record & past that Sun has.

 

I doubt he would have either. 

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8 hours ago, more said:

Do you really think he would have acted differently if Sun was German or Russian?? 

So sick of all this race bulls hit 

Well he hasn’t condemned the whities in his team that he has swim with.  Said nothing when given the opportunity on Jack.  Still swims with Thomas Fraser-Smith as well. Could just hate communists I guess.... lol

I have no issue with any of them swimming with drug cheats, just the rank hypocrisy that plays over and over again where Australia is concerned.  Bit like the old Fawlty Towers.... don’t mention the war.... lol

Can see why the Australian public has turned of swimming and it can’t get a gig on free to air TV anymore, night after night. 

Edited by Oompa Loompa

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4 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

Well he hasn’t condemned the whities in his team that he has swim with.  Said nothing when given the opportunity on Jack.  Still swims with Thomas Fraser-Smith as well. Could just hate communists I guess.... lol

I have no issue with any of them swimming win drug cheats, just the rank hypocrisy that plays over and over again where Australia is concerned.  Bit like the old Fawlty Towers.... don’t mention the war.... lol

Can see why the Australian public has turned of swimming and it can’t get a gig on free to air TV anymore, night after night. 

You seriously think this is just because Sun is Asian... Omfg.... 

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7 hours ago, Turts said:

Pity that swimming australia knew what was going on, and then Horton took his stance.  And they supported him? Or were they silent? Cant remember. 

Set up to fail really. With all the ex Aussie swimmers banging on about keeping swimming clean, and how perfect the Aussies are. 

If she gets pinged, there's a lot if egg on faces. 

Lol.. yes, we need a quote from Heugill or Hackett.  

 

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3 minutes ago, more said:

You seriously think this is just because Sun is Asian... Omfg.... 

Why is he not condeming the Aussie girl, other than she's hot

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