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Big news overnight, Ariarne Titmus stormed over Kate Ledecky in the last 50m of the 400m freestyle to take the win. First time Ledecky has been beaten in that event in a major meet I think.

Also, Mack Horton refused to share the podium with drug cheat Sun Yang after coming second to him in the 400m  freestyle. And the Chinese trolls on social media are getting into Mack already. They make some very funny comments.

 

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I wonder where this guys financial interests are tied up... 

"Former Australian Sports Anti Doping Authority CEO Richard Ings called for a hefty penalty. Not standing on the podium with him should attract a hefty penalty.”

Of course everyone knows only innocent competitors go to the trouble of smashing vials of blood with a hammer. 

Edited by more

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I wonder if Mack would have got on the podium if he had won?

Don't get me wrong i admire his stance, but it looks like a bit of a sooky sooky la la because he came second.

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33 minutes ago, MattS said:

I wonder if Mack would have got on the podium if he had won?

Don't get me wrong i admire his stance, but it looks like a bit of a sooky sooky la la because he came second.

I like that he is standing up against drug cheats.

I don't see it as sooky lala at all.

If he won, it would have made even more of an issue.

If he got on the podium 99% of the world would never know he was racing a drug cheat.  Media love this shit.  It's a smart move by him to bring attention on the cheat

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2 hours ago, Peter said:

I like that he is standing up against drug cheats.

I don't see it as sooky lala at all.

If he won, it would have made even more of an issue.

If he got on the podium 99% of the world would never know he was racing a drug cheat.  Media love this shit.  It's a smart move by him to bring attention on the cheat

Totally agree. 

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21 minutes ago, zed said:

Totally agree. 

100% agree, 

If former Asada CEO says he deserves a penalty, then even more reason to stand up against cheats, even our own system has been corrupt if the former CEO can make that statement. A refusal for a test is a ban. No clean athlete refuses, and no stupid excuse can be believed 

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It’s not up to Mack Horten. 

I heard Tracey Holmes interviewed on ABC radio this morning. She’s actually investigated both of Sun’s drug testing controversies.

2014: Sun has a long term identified heart condition. He has taken a specific medication for this for many years. In 2014 that medication was briefly on the list of drugs that you needed to apply for a TUE. Sun and his team didn’t. He got pinged for this. By the time the CAS considered his case that drug had been taken off the list that required an application for a TUE. He got a 3 month ban for being sloppy.

2018 (?) three ‘testers’ turned up at Sun’s house to take a blood sample. Two of them did not have accreditation. The third had some sort of identification but no qualification to take the sample. Sun was videoed as he gave the sample and as he rang his own doctor and the Chinese authorities. Calls were made to the actual testing company who acknowledged their **** up and the blood sample was then taken outside by a security guard and smashed whilst the process was videoed. Properly accredited personnel then turn up and retook the blood sample correctly (which was clear).

WADA then served Sun with a breach notice. He contested the notice and won. WADA have appealed. The appeal is yet to be heard.

they are the facts. Given those facts Horton is a blow hard who should have butted out. This is now an international incident. I hope Horton gets a good kicking.

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9 minutes ago, Trier said:

100% agree, 

If former Asada CEO says he deserves a penalty, then even more reason to stand up against cheats, even our own system has been corrupt if the former CEO can make that statement. A refusal for a test is a ban. No clean athlete refuses, and no stupid excuse can be believed 

Check who said former ASADA CEO is paid by now... 

Sun stinks of Lance Armstrong type of "I've never tested positive", but if you read further into it something doesn't seem right. It's not that he didn't cheat, he hasn't been caught yet  The fact he went to great lengths to destroy samples says a lot in itself.

I've never refused a test or taken that action. I never did anything dodgy and was all to happy to let whoever take the samples (I got tested about 7/8 times in sport and more in the Army). 

I've been around Australian teams both domestic and overseas and never seen anyone really kick up too much of a stink RE testing. It's part and parcel with competition. 

 

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13 minutes ago, willie said:

Check who said former ASADA CEO is paid by now... 

Sun stinks of Lance Armstrong type of "I've never tested positive", but if you read further into it something doesn't seem right. It's not that he didn't cheat, he hasn't been caught yet  The fact he went to great lengths to destroy samples says a lot in itself.

I've never refused a test or taken that action. I never did anything dodgy and was all to happy to let whoever take the samples (I got tested about 7/8 times in sport and more in the Army). 

I've been around Australian teams both domestic and overseas and never seen anyone really kick up too much of a stink RE testing. It's part and parcel with competition. 

 

So, something smells and therefore anything goes? Great. 

Maybe we could tie him to a chair and throw him in a river to see if he floats? 

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1 minute ago, Andrew #1 said:

So, something smells and therefore anything goes? Great. 

Maybe we could tie him to a chair and throw him in a river to see if he floats? 

Why go to such extreme lengths if you've done nothing wrong? 

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2 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

Maybe we could tie him to a chair and throw him in a river to see if he floats? 

Lindsey Graham called.  He wants his zinger back 😉

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4 minutes ago, willie said:

Why go to such extreme lengths if you've done nothing wrong? 

I'd say second to this, WADA is still going after him so surely they've got something on him? 

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28 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

It’s not up to Mack Horten. 

I heard Tracey Holmes interviewed on ABC radio this morning. She’s actually investigated both of Sun’s drug testing controversies.

2014: Sun has a long term identified heart condition. He has taken a specific medication for this for many years. In 2014 that medication was briefly on the list of drugs that you needed to apply for a TUE. Sun and his team didn’t. He got pinged for this. By the time the CAS considered his case that drug had been taken off the list that required an application for a TUE. He got a 3 month ban for being sloppy.

2018 (?) three ‘testers’ turned up at Sun’s house to take a blood sample. Two of them did not have accreditation. The third had some sort of identification but no qualification to take the sample. Sun was videoed as he gave the sample and as he rang his own doctor and the Chinese authorities. Calls were made to the actual testing company who acknowledged their **** up and the blood sample was then taken outside by a security guard and smashed whilst the process was videoed. Properly accredited personnel then turn up and retook the blood sample correctly (which was clear).

WADA then served Sun with a breach notice. He contested the notice and won. WADA have appealed. The appeal is yet to be heard.

they are the facts. Given those facts Horton is a blow hard who should have butted out. This is now an international incident. I hope Horton gets a good kicking.

Yeh but have you seen Yang's teeth?

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8 minutes ago, willie said:

Why go to such extreme lengths if you've done nothing wrong? 

You would have to be almost certain they were going to test positive to go to such a length. If the 'legality' or accreditation was really the issue then a reasonable person would have let them take the samples and then deal with the paperwork afterwards and/or have the tests thrown out.

His actions sound exactly like that of someone panicked, who knew they would test positive.

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3 minutes ago, more said:

His actions sound exactly like that of someone panicked, who knew they would test positive.

Or of a person worried that someone might want to frame him with a spiked sample. The people testing were sus, so was he worried they may taint the sample before handing it in.

Just playing devil's advocate here.

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9 minutes ago, willie said:

I'd say second to this, WADA is still going after him so surely they've got something on him? 

FINA seems to have an uncomfortably close relationship with Sun Yang...maybe the CEO of WADA isn't close enough to be referred to as a grandfather?

 

"Sun embraced FINA executive director Cornel Marculescu. Sun said Marculescu was like a "grandfather" to him. After the race, Sun was asked about his friendship with Marculescu, the FINA boss, and replied that he had been a figure of support since the controversy in Rio erupted.

"Marcu is a very good friend of [the] Chinese swim team and he actually watched me like a grandfather. So I was very happy to see him see me win the gold. I hope this friendship will last."

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22 minutes ago, willie said:

Why go to such extreme lengths if you've done nothing wrong? 

Because PED testing is extremely sensitive and the risk of contamination - deliberate or accidental - is high. 

Sun didn’t just grab the vials and smash them. Once the testing company acknowledged their stuff up it was agreed to destroy the vials and have this videoed as evidence. 

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50 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

It’s not up to Mack Horten. 

I heard Tracey Holmes interviewed on ABC radio this morning. She’s actually investigated both of Sun’s drug testing controversies.

2014: Sun has a long term identified heart condition. He has taken a specific medication for this for many years. In 2014 that medication was briefly on the list of drugs that you needed to apply for a TUE. Sun and his team didn’t. He got pinged for this. By the time the CAS considered his case that drug had been taken off the list that required an application for a TUE. He got a 3 month ban for being sloppy. (reminds me of Lance's saddle sore that required a special cream)

2018 (?) three ‘testers’ turned up at Sun’s house to take a blood sample. Two of them did not have accreditation. The third had some sort of identification but no qualification to take the sample. Sun was videoed as he gave the sample and as he rang his own doctor and the Chinese authorities. Calls were made to the actual testing company who acknowledged their **** up and the blood sample was then taken outside by a security guard and smashed whilst the process was videoed. Properly accredited personnel then turn up and retook the blood sample correctly (which was clear).

WADA then served Sun with a breach notice. He contested the notice and won. WADA have appealed. The appeal is yet to be heard.

Didn't this happen when a tester rocked up to Lance's house after he returned from a ride? He locked himself in the bathroom and contacted his lawyer

they are the facts. Given those facts Horton is a blow hard who should have butted out. This is now an international incident. I hope Horton gets a good kicking.

 Is there a rule that says "you must stand ont he podium & you must shake hands?"

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Or of a person worried that someone might want to frame him with a spiked sample. The people testing were sus, so was he worried they may taint the sample before handing it in.

Just playing devil's advocate here.

You don’t even need to get into conspiracy theories. Accidental contamination by secondary and even tertiary transfers are very common. Procedures are not just mere technicalities. 

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Bored:

It is not an apples and oranges comparison between Sun’s 2014 violation and Lance’s post facto excuse of saddle sores and retrospective TUE when he tested positive to cortisone. The medicine that Sun tested positive for was expected to be in his system - it had been part of his biological profile for years. What was unexpected was that he hadn’t applied for a TUE for it when that was briefly required in 2014.

Lance locked himself in a bathroom, but Sun actually gave blood - which was videoed - as he sought clarification from his doctor and the Chinese Olympic officials. 

Some Chinese swimmers have been dopers. So have some Aussie swimmers. The Chinese developed a bad reputation- Especially the women who came from nowhere in the late 1980s to dominating. By contrast, sun was talent identified at an early age and had spent most of his time honing his skills by training with Dennis Cotrell on the Sunshine Coast. 

Maybe sticking to facts would be in everbody’s best interests, especially Horton who may well be in a lot of strife.  Horton should have allowed ‘the system’ to do its work: WADA reckons it has a case. Good luck, they’ll need it I reckon. 

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1 hour ago, Andrew #1 said:

It’s not up to Mack Horten. 

I heard Tracey Holmes interviewed on ABC radio this morning. She’s actually investigated both of Sun’s drug testing controversies.

2014: Sun has a long term identified heart condition. He has taken a specific medication for this for many years. In 2014 that medication was briefly on the list of drugs that you needed to apply for a TUE. Sun and his team didn’t. He got pinged for this. By the time the CAS considered his case that drug had been taken off the list that required an application for a TUE. He got a 3 month ban for being sloppy.

2018 (?) three ‘testers’ turned up at Sun’s house to take a blood sample. Two of them did not have accreditation. The third had some sort of identification but no qualification to take the sample. Sun was videoed as he gave the sample and as he rang his own doctor and the Chinese authorities. Calls were made to the actual testing company who acknowledged their **** up and the blood sample was then taken outside by a security guard and smashed whilst the process was videoed. Properly accredited personnel then turn up and retook the blood sample correctly (which was clear).

WADA then served Sun with a breach notice. He contested the notice and won. WADA have appealed. The appeal is yet to be heard.

they are the facts. Given those facts Horton is a blow hard who should have butted out. This is now an international incident. I hope Horton gets a good kicking.

well that's his story....

Yang tested positive to the drug trimetazadine which is still on the banned list actually. 

Maybe he does have a TUE now because every world champion swimmer would suffer from Heart Failure and Peripheral Artery Disease, nothing unusual and corrupt there. Unless of course he is using it purely as a massive stimulant, but then they don't normally hand out TUE for that reason, or do they.

Feb 23, 2018 - According to reports in the Russian media, the substance involved was trimetazidine, a stimulant usually used to treat patients suffering from angina. The disclosure of another positive doping test comes 24 hours after the Russian curler Alexander Krushelnitsky was stripped of an Olympic bronze medal.
 
 
Yeah, these guys have really bad hearts too...

 

 

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1 hour ago, Andrew #1 said:

 

Maybe sticking to facts would be in everbody’s best interests, especially Horton who may well be in a lot of strife.  Horton should have allowed ‘the system’ to do its work: WADA reckons it has a case. Good luck, they’ll need it I reckon. 

Yeah possibly. Although Sun Yang only  escaped a lifetime ban on a technicality. During the test, the three testers produced one letter authorising the test, Sun Yang's lawyer argued there should have been three. Unfortunately because of the hangover from the long-standing drugs debacle in cycling, the day has passed where exceptional athletes are given the benefit of the doubt. There are occasional freaks of nature that come along and blow everyone away, e.g Usain Bolt. But how often have we seen a world class athlete get busted for doping. Sadly if it seems too good to be true (getting world records whilst clean) it usually is. 

Sun Yang is either stupid/misfortune/ill-advised or doping. 

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2 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

It’s not up to Mack Horten. 

I heard Tracey Holmes interviewed on ABC radio this morning. She’s actually investigated both of Sun’s drug testing controversies.

2014: Sun has a long term identified heart condition. He has taken a specific medication for this for many years. In 2014 that medication was briefly on the list of drugs that you needed to apply for a TUE. Sun and his team didn’t. He got pinged for this. By the time the CAS considered his case that drug had been taken off the list that required an application for a TUE. He got a 3 month ban for being sloppy. 

 

Trimetazidine  is still banned isn't it? And although when you say - an athlete forgets to apply for a TUE - it sounds like an innocent, trivial mistake to Joe Public. It's not. It's a huge f*ck up and shouldn't be dismissed as a silly mistake. 

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3 minutes ago, zed said:

Trimetazidine  is still banned isn't it? And although when you say - an athlete forgets to apply for a TUE - it sounds like an innocent, trivial mistake to Joe Public. It's not. It's a huge f*ck up and shouldn't be dismissed as a silly mistake. 

Agreed. A 3 month ban in 2014, as opposed to Sam Riley’s rap over the knuckles a decade before was deserved. Probably even 6 months. A definite step up. Times have moved on again and I reckon athletes would be lucky to escape with anything less than a 2 year ban now. Good.

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5 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

Agreed. A 3 month ban in 2014, as opposed to Sam Riley’s rap over the knuckles a decade before was deserved. Probably even 6 months. A definite step up. Times have moved on again and I reckon athletes would be lucky to escape with anything less than a 2 year ban now. Good.

I wouldn't call a migraine tablet performance enhancing in swimming....

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2 minutes ago, more said:

I wouldn't call a migraine tablet performance enhancing in swimming....

The pseudo it contained (I think) is a known stimulant. An ole school PED.

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3 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

The pseudo it contained (I think) is a known stimulant. An ole school PED.

Nope, as you say maybe sticking to the 'facts' would be in everyone interest ;)

It was for an analgesic dextropropoxyphene

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FYI - Tracey Holmes posted this article on ABC News online. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-21/sun-yang-doping-case-more-complicated-than-it-seems/11328364

Note: There are some minor factual variances to the summary I posted above (which was based on my recollection of the interview I heard as I was driving around town).

It seems that the ultimate decision to smash the blood sample vials was taken by the Chinese team, not Sun personally. Foolish, as the Tribunal noted, as it elevatated the stakes unnecessarily. However, given the way WADA ran its case and the findings of fact made, I still reckon that the prospects of a successful appeal before the CAS would seem doubtful. 

 

Edited by Andrew #1

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I think it's sad that this is overshadowing the great performance of Titmus!  those final 20 meters were just amazing.

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"was not collected with proper authorisation"

Well they did have a letter authorising them to take a blood sample. At some point Sun Yang and his team figured out each of the 3 individuals needed a separate letter. The way it looks to me, is that they turned up unannounced for the test, Sun Yang panicked, called his team and 4 hours later they found a loophole and destroyed the sample. 

Would someone with nothing to worry about really drag a simple blood test out for 4 hours, till 3am, involving doctors, coaches, his agent, even his own mother over a very small technicality? He's been tested dozens of times over his career, he is always this fastidious over the testers paperwork, processes, and qualifications? 

 

 

 

 

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Your opinion of journalist/TV presenters is obviously very different to mine.

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1 minute ago, Cat Lady said:

I think it's sad that this is overshadowing the great performance of Titmus!  those final 20 meters were just amazing.

Exactly what one of the Aussie journos covering the event said on twitter last night. And the exact reason why I wrote that first on this topic. Sadly, you're the first to acknowledge it.

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Just saw the footage. 

Mack was still there. He didn’t walk off.

he just never took the step from behind up onto the 2nd place step. 

The way I was reading it, Mack walked off which isn’t true. 

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2 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

FYI - Tracey Holmes posted this article on ABC News online. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-21/sun-yang-doping-case-more-complicated-than-it-seems/11328364

Note: There are some minor factual variances to the summary I posted above (which was based on my recollection of the interview I heard as I was driving around town).

It seems that the ultimate decision to smash the blood sample vials was taken by the Chinese team, not Sun personally. Foolish, as the Tribunal noted, as it elevatated the stakes unnecessarily. However, given the way WADA ran its case and the findings of fact made, I still reckon that the prospects of a successful appeal before the CAS would seem doubtful. 

 

Tracey hasn't even got her facts straight. It is obviously just info given her by some  one from Yang side. The medication he took for his "heart condition" has not been downgraded it is actually banned both in and out of competition. 

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I've rung Travis Tygatt and told him Sun is a Chinese communist athlete who is taking drugs like Lance Armstrong. That should fix the drug cheats little red wagon.

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From being a listener of ABC Grandstand, I don't think Tracey Holmes is a big fan of WADA (think Essendon and meldonium). I would be reading what she has said on the matter in that context. (She is a highly regarded sports journalist though.)

Sun's behaviour with the smashing of the vial raises concerns of an athlete who knows he is still "glowing", and is delaying the sample being taken until such point as he knows it will be out of his system. I'm sure there are many cyclists who wish they could have done the same when the testers came knocking on their door! 

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2 hours ago, Stoney!!! said:

From being a listener of ABC Grandstand, I don't think Tracey Holmes is a big fan of WADA (think Essendon and meldonium). I would be reading what she has said on the matter in that context. (She is a highly regarded sports journalist though.)

Sun's behaviour with the smashing of the vial raises concerns of an athlete who knows he is still "glowing", and is delaying the sample being taken until such point as he knows it will be out of his system. I'm sure there are many cyclists who wish they could have done the same when the testers came knocking on their door! 

Exactly

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9 hours ago, Cat Lady said:

I think it's sad that this is overshadowing the great performance of Titmus!  those final 20 meters were just amazing.

Just watched the race - had to watch Irvin spanish as it was the only one that showed the whole race. I'm not so sure whether her final 20m were brilliant or whether Ledecky's final 2p were awful...  Either way, a great swim by Titmus!

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14 hours ago, AA7 said:

Exactly what one of the Aussie journos covering the event said on twitter last night. And the exact reason why I wrote that first on this topic. Sadly, you're the first to acknowledge it.

You knew that would happen. 

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18 hours ago, BogFrog said:

 I'm not so sure whether her final 20m were brilliant or whether Ledecky's final 2p were awful... 

One article said Ledcky's last 50 was the slowest of any of the 8 in the final, Surely she must have blown up and didn't make a tactical error.

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On ‎22‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 1:26 PM, Andrew #1 said:

 By contrast, sun was talent identified at an early age and had spent most of his time honing his skills by training with Dennis Cotrell on the Sunshine Coast. 

Hey Andrew, Is the Dennis Cotrell connection the reason you seem to be defending Sun?

 

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The (leaked) report by the FINA Doping Panel is  (or was, and might be paywalled) online at the Daily Telegraph (embedded pdf)

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/more-sports/fina-saves-outrage-for-sun-yang-not-the-clean-athletes-that-have-to-compete-against-him/news-story/2fa3c429bb117216e7e327841238faa5

It was FINA, not WADA, seeking to penalise Sun, although it is WADA which is appealing to CAS.  It was FINA's (own?)Doping Panel which rules that the sample collection process was deficient, and that no penalty should apply. The testing was done by IDTM for FINA. https://idtm.se/
 

 

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13 minutes ago, Turts said:

Why were there 4 on the podium for that one? 

Dead heat for 3rd.

 

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10 hours ago, toolex said:

One article said Ledcky's last 50 was the slowest of any of the 8 in the final, Surely she must have blown up and didn't make a tactical error.

She's unwell apparently and has pulled out of other events.

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