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Shark at Manly swim?

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On the news this morning was a shark "attack" at somewhere between Manly and Shelley? 

Was this the bbb whatever swim.? Any more info? 

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4 minutes ago, MissJess said:

Out before sunrise. Idiots.

 

Ummm. No. Ready Paul Every’s post on the St Ives Swimming thread. 

That said, I’m not a fan of swimming in open water in the dark. Unless drunk.

https://youtu.be/yrEvK-tv5OI

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2 hours ago, MissJess said:

Out before sunrise. Idiots.

 

Driving a car on the road. Idiots.

More chance of them being killed driving there.

But, yes, I do understand what you're saying. 

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13 minutes ago, Paul Every said:

He's still a channel swimmer. He didn't die.

I cannot believe the shark didn’t know......

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10 hours ago, MissJess said:

Out before sunrise. Idiots.

 

Yep. Out swimming about 1hour 20 before sunrise. That’s pretty crazy in my opinion.

Even when I do the 6am swim in summer/spring it’s a bit light and I still turned to IronJimbo and said..... should we be doing this? There was 4-5 of us that morning and very rough. And I did see a grey nurse that morning.

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11 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

Even when I do the 6am swim in summer/spring it’s a bit light and I still turned to IronJimbo and said..... should we be doing this? 

And I usually say 'harden up, you big girl' or some such...

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When I swam at Brighton (Melbourne) last July, I did 2km & was in before it was light. All you could see were the little lights bobbing out through the boat harbour & under the jetty.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have felt it if a shark had bitten my leg off anyway.

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I also noticed that the swimmers were all non wetsuit.

My theory is in pitch dark a shark wouldn’t see someone in a black wetsuit.

Because they were in sluggo,s did they stand out more in the dark?

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22 hours ago, MissJess said:

Out before sunrise. Idiots.

 

Something they do in Townsville to avoid the heat monster😕

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8 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

I also noticed that the swimmers were all non wetsuit.

My theory is in pitch dark a shark wouldn’t see someone in a black wetsuit.

Because they were in sluggo,s did they stand out more in the dark?

Wrong. They are training for the English Channel. 

The bay down here is full of them every morning. 

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23 hours ago, MissJess said:

Out before sunrise. Idiots.

 

 

20 hours ago, Cranky said:

He's an ex channel swimmer

They need to practice night swimming and id assume they are swimming for 4 hours or so. .

 

not 45 minutes. 

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7 hours ago, Peter said:

 

They need to practice night swimming and id assume they are swimming for 4 hours or so. .

 

not 45 minutes. 

Seriously - read Paul Every’s posts on the St Ives swimming thread. He’s actually swam with these guys. It seems that some of them are starting early NOT because they want to do an extended (multi hour) swim, but many of them just need to get to world early. Som of course may likley swim 1 to 2 laps of the Manly to Shelly loop before joining in with the main group at 7am.  

Edited by Andrew #1

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7 hours ago, Peter said:

Wrong. They are training for the English Channel. 

The bay down here is full of them every morning. 

I've swum with them a couple times. Not many actually swim the channel. most are just lunatics that like to swim in cold water every day before work. The real channel swimmers get out there for a few hours rather than the 1 - 2km that most do.

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6 hours ago, Peter said:

 

They need to practice night swimming and id assume they are swimming for 4 hours or so. .

 

not 45 minutes. 

Most of the channel swimmers and other long distance open water maniacs in Sydney swim in one of a couple of squads. The most popular being Vlad swim. Typically Monday to Friday sees most of them doing 4-6km Monday to Friday in the pool and then there is a 7am open water group that swims every Saturday Morning, starting from different locations most weekends. The Saturday group swim anything from 2km to 20km depending on the time of year and what individuals are training for. I dont think the early morning (5:30am) Shelley Beach group are necessarily swimming at that time Monday to Friday to get their 4hr+ open water swims done. More like that’s the most convenient time for them to swim and then go to work afterwards.

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47 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

Seriously - read Paul Every’s posts on the St Ives swimming thread. 

There's the problem.  I haven't clicked in it since it got bought back to life. I don't need to know about swimming in St Ives.

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17 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

I also noticed that the swimmers were all non wetsuit.

My theory is in pitch dark a shark wouldn’t see someone in a black wetsuit.

Because they were in sluggo,s did they stand out more in the dark?

Your theory does sound plausible, however from a fishing perspective (is a shark a fish?) it’s standard practice to use a very dark or black lure in night or low light situations, and light and brightly coloured lures in high light situations. It’s something to do with a fishes perception of colour and contrast. Apparently 

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21 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

Your theory does sound plausible, however from a fishing perspective (is a shark a fish?) it’s standard practice to use a very dark or black lure in night or low light situations, and light and brightly coloured lures in high light situations. It’s something to do with a fishes perception of colour and contrast. Apparently 

Sharks typically hunt from below, and see a shadow/shape above.  They wouldn't differentiate colour in that view - black  wetty or white skin. 

Especially in low ambient light conditions of nighttime, where they would just see a shape above. 

 

Part of the reason surfers get taken for seals or turtles - similar shape from below. 

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At night, very little of a shark's perception wouldn't be visual.

It's primarily sensitive to subtle variations in water chemistry, electrical impulses (including those of nerves) and variations of water movement via other sensory organs (ampulae of Lorenzini and its lateral line).

Edited by Paul Every
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1 hour ago, Mike Del said:

Your theory does sound plausible, however from a fishing perspective (is a shark a fish?)

Yes, sharks are fish. Extant fish are divides into four classes:

  • "bony" fish - "typical" fish inhabiting salt and/or fresh water. The most diverse class of fish, comprising most familiar species that we view as a "regular" fish, also including sea horses, eels, lungfish.
  • sharks and rays - have a "skeleton" composed of cartilage, primitive but highly evolved.
  • lampreys - primitive jawless fish, lacking a skeleton and scales, with an eel-like body.
  • hagfish - similar to lampreys, but an earlier evolutionary branch.
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3 hours ago, Peter said:

There's the problem.  I haven't clicked in it since it got bought back to life. I don't need to know about swimming in St Ives.

The other thread could probably do with a bit of tidying up.

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3 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

Most of the channel swimmers and other long distance open water maniacs in Sydney swim in one of a couple of squads. The most popular being Vlad swim. Typically Monday to Friday sees most of them doing 4-6km Monday to Friday in the pool and then there is a 7am open water group that swims every Saturday Morning, starting from different locations most weekends. The Saturday group swim anything from 2km to 20km depending on the time of year and what individuals are training for. I dont think the early morning (5:30am) Shelley Beach group are necessarily swimming at that time Monday to Friday to get their 4hr+ open water swims done. More like that’s the most convenient time for them to swim and then go to work afterwards.

There's been a few Channel/marathon swimmers among the B&B group over the years, though as you say, most of them do the bulk of their training at Vlad Swim or elsewhere.

The B&B 5:30 group is a fairly tight little group, with most starting early due to work demands, though a few with an interest in the longer events like Bondi to Watsons and Rotto.

It can be a rewarding time to swim. You feel like you have the ocean to yourselves (or even yourself!), and being out there from pitch dark and swimming through the gradually increasing light, watching the sun rise as you breathe, then eventually to the full the brightness of day is quite special.

Then there are the magical mornings when the shore break sparkles with phosphorescence in darkness. As you swim out, under and past the waves, you settle into your stroke and watch the water beneath glisten in swirls of phosphorescence, as your hand and arm move below you. Simply gorgeous.

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Paul Every said:

It can be a rewarding time to swim. You feel like you have the ocean to yourselves (or even yourself!), and being out there from pitch dark and swimming through the gradually increasing light, watching the sun rise as you breathe, then eventually to the full the brightness of day is quite special.

Then there are the magical mornings when the shore break sparkles with phosphorescence in darkness. As you swim out, under and past the waves, you settle into your stroke and watch the water beneath glisten in swirls of phosphorescence, as your hand and arm move below you. Simply gorgeous.

This.

I've often swum in the dam at ridiculous hours simply because it's so nice being there under just the moon. I've even swum there on my own at midnight, and then last July went out to watch the total lunar eclipse out in the middle of the dam. You don't realise how dark it suddenly gets when the moon disappears. :)

The latter was probably the best experience I've ever had out swimming, and while a lot of people would say it was dangerous, I did the risk assessment and decided it was fine. And it was.

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I’ve been meaning to do some dusk swims at Kurnell as they have a colony of sea horses living on the nets. 

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35 minutes ago, roxii said:

I’ve been meaning to do some dusk swims at Kurnell as they have a colony of sea horses living on the nets. 

Giddy Up

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36 minutes ago, roxii said:

I’ve been meaning to do some dusk swims at Kurnell as they have a colony of sea horses living on the nets. 

GoPro for us. 

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1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

often swum in the dam at ridiculous hours simply because it's so nice being there under just the moon. I've even swum there on my own at midnight, and then last July went out to watch the total lunar

Put a shark in the dam........

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22 minutes ago, Turts said:

Put a shark in the dam........

Ask Cranky about the eels. :)

Or the catfish that nested where everyone gets in and used to bite us on the toes. 

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4 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Ask Cranky about the eels. :)

Or the catfish that nested where everyone gets in and used to bite us on the toes. 

Bugger that. 

But I've got toe sucking carp, nibbling shrimp, chomping yabbies, and unmentionable floaties coming out of illegally dumped houseboat toilet tanks........

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7 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

 I dont think the early morning (5:30am) Shelley Beach group are necessarily swimming at that time Monday to Friday to get their 4hr+ open water swims done. More like that’s the most convenient time for them to swim and then go to work afterwards.

Corect. Peter was wrong ;)

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3 hours ago, Paul Every said:

At night, very little of a shark's perception wouldn't be visual.

 

That was my point further above. But it was just a theory.

 

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31 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

Corect. Peter was wrong ;)

Hang on. The guy that was bitten was training for the English Channel.  

So my comment 

14 hours ago, Peter said:

 

They need to practice night swimming and id assume they are swimming for 4 hours or so. .

 

not 45 minutes. 

Is correct 

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He wasn’t training for it...... he had done it before. He was just doing his usual morning swim. 

For all the B&B swims I have done - and when I have done the 6:00, 6:30 and 07:00 am groups, no one else that I am aware of does the x3. Several do x2. And very few do an extra lap after the 07;00 group if at all. So no way these guys are out there for 4 hours.

Maybe on a Saturday or Sunday they might do a separate 10km swim but I think that’s once a month on a Sunday.

 

PS: Quote: PeterSchultz is an experienced ocean swimmer, who has previously conquered the English Channel.

 

 

 

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So what do people think of putting self interest and the need to swim in this body of water in front of community when officialdom closes/ tells you to get out of the water.  Should we potentially put volunteers and first responders at risk and potentially take hospital beds of those that need if something goes wrong and someone gets bitten.   

Dont get me wrong, ive done plenty of triathlons that stuff over some small businesses in towns, curious peoples thoughts? Should you get out of the water or just  do you what you want as you now better then lifeguards and/or are ok with getting munched by the labradors of the sea? Especially where other areas are available to swim.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/shark-spotted-at-shelly-beach-as-swimmers-make-bold-return-to-the-sea-20190706-p524qf.html

 

 

  

Edited by Oompa Loompa

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I'm assuming the SLSC is just covering its arse. It appears a routine thing whenever an "unusual" shark is reported. If a non-regular swimmer reports a shark sighting, the SLSC can't really just say "Yeah, we know. 50 swimmers have seen it already."

The reporter appears to be just drumming up a story and searching for an angle which isn't there. Her claim of "more than 130 pink-capped ocean swimmers defied the warning" is clearly bullshit.

The B&B blog reports the morning differently :

     "The surf at the point is tumbling and mess of white water....There is a combination of conditions including swell and a challenging rip

     .......The call out from John and the surf club is to ‘think about the conditions and if you have any qualms - go to half way.

      .......Apparently shortly after the 7.00am had finished ...a couple people sighted a young grey nurse..... "

The only warning given at 7am from the SLSC via B&B's John Bond (himself a Manly SLSC member), was to consider the surf conditions and if you feel uncomfortable, enter the water near the steps by the pool ("half way") rather than through the surf break.

The 7am group is the largest and final group to enter the water with swimmers finished by 7:30. There was about 8 swimmers who swam another lap ("doublers") who would have finished about 8am, but they wouldn't have exited the water at Manly but instead turned around off the point, 100 metres or so offshore. The doublers wouldn't have known of any imminent closure of the beach by the SLSC.

Even the journalist's own report states the shark was sighted and reported at 8am, by which time all of the 164 B&B swimmers that have logged their swim for today, would have either long left the water or, in the case of the handful of doublers, been just about to exit.

The photo accompanying the article would have been taken at Shelly at about 7:15am, prior to any reporting of the shark to the SLSC.

So it would appear that the journalists claim of defiant swimmers is fabricated.

To a regular B&B swimmer, there's other inconsistencies between the swimmers' quotes and the narrative of the story that stick out like dog's balls shark's claspers.

 

 

 

Edited by Paul Every
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49 minutes ago, Paul Every said:

I'm assuming the SLSC is just covering its arse. It appears a routine thing whenever an "unusual" shark is reported. If a non-regular swimmer reports a shark sighting, the SLSC can't really just say "Yeah, we know. 50 swimmers have seen it already."

The reporter appears to be just drumming up a story and searching for an angle which isn't there. Her claim of "more than 130 pink-capped ocean swimmers defied the warning" is clearly bullshit.

The B&B blog reports the morning differently :

     "The surf at the point is tumbling and mess of white water....There is a combination of conditions including swell and a challenging rip

     .......The call out from John and the surf club is to ‘think about the conditions and if you have any qualms - go to half way.

      .......Apparently shortly after the 7.00am had finished ...a couple people sighted a young grey nurse..... "

The only warning given at 7am from the SLSC via B&B's John Bond (himself a Manly SLSC member), was to consider the surf conditions and if you feel uncomfortable, enter the water near the steps by the pool ("half way") rather than through the surf break.

The 7am group is the largest and final group to enter the water with swimmers finished by 7:30. There was about 8 swimmers who swam another lap ("doublers") who would have finished about 8am, but they wouldn't have exited the water at Manly but instead turned around off the point, 100 metres or so offshore. The doublers wouldn't have known of any imminent closure of the beach by the SLSC.

Even the journalist's own report states the shark was sighted and reported at 8am, by which time all of the 164 B&B swimmers that have logged their swim for today, would have either long left the water or, in the case of the handful of doublers, been just about to exit.

The photo accompanying the article would have been taken at Shelly at about 7:15am, prior to any reporting of the shark to the SLSC.

So it would appear that the journalists claim of defiant swimmers is fabricated.

To a regular B&B swimmer, there's other inconsistencies between the swimmers' quotes and the narrative of the story that stick out like dog's balls shark's claspers.

 

 

 

This summation from Paul would be 100% correct.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Paul Every said:

I'm assuming the SLSC is just covering its arse. It appears a routine thing whenever an "unusual" shark is reported. If a non-regular swimmer reports a shark sighting, the SLSC can't really just say "Yeah, we know. 50 swimmers have seen it already."

The reporter appears to be just drumming up a story and searching for an angle which isn't there. Her claim of "more than 130 pink-capped ocean swimmers defied the warning" is clearly bullshit.

The B&B blog reports the morning differently :

     "The surf at the point is tumbling and mess of white water....There is a combination of conditions including swell and a challenging rip

     .......The call out from John and the surf club is to ‘think about the conditions and if you have any qualms - go to half way.

      .......Apparently shortly after the 7.00am had finished ...a couple people sighted a young grey nurse..... "

The only warning given at 7am from the SLSC via B&B's John Bond (himself a Manly SLSC member), was to consider the surf conditions and if you feel uncomfortable, enter the water near the steps by the pool ("half way") rather than through the surf break.

The 7am group is the largest and final group to enter the water with swimmers finished by 7:30. There was about 8 swimmers who swam another lap ("doublers") who would have finished about 8am, but they wouldn't have exited the water at Manly but instead turned around off the point, 100 metres or so offshore. The doublers wouldn't have known of any imminent closure of the beach by the SLSC.

Even the journalist's own report states the shark was sighted and reported at 8am, by which time all of the 164 B&B swimmers that have logged their swim for today, would have either long left the water or, in the case of the handful of doublers, been just about to exit.

The photo accompanying the article would have been taken at Shelly at about 7:15am, prior to any reporting of the shark to the SLSC.

So it would appear that the journalists claim of defiant swimmers is fabricated.

To a regular B&B swimmer, there's other inconsistencies between the swimmers' quotes and the narrative of the story that stick out like dog's balls shark's claspers.

 

 

 

No, journos never embellish the facts.

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44 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

Meh, sharks, catfish, eels carp.

Check out these Murray Cod surface hits from today out in Billy Goat country 😎

You sounded to be puffing more than Frodo was after his last win.

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4 hours ago, Paul Every said:

I'm assuming the SLSC is just covering its arse. It appears a routine thing whenever an "unusual" shark is reported. If a non-regular swimmer reports a shark sighting, the SLSC can't really just say "Yeah, we know. 50 swimmers have seen it already."

The reporter appears to be just drumming up a story and searching for an angle which isn't there. Her claim of "more than 130 pink-capped ocean swimmers defied the warning" is clearly bullshit.

The B&B blog reports the morning differently :

     "The surf at the point is tumbling and mess of white water....There is a combination of conditions including swell and a challenging rip

     .......The call out from John and the surf club is to ‘think about the conditions and if you have any qualms - go to half way.

      .......Apparently shortly after the 7.00am had finished ...a couple people sighted a young grey nurse..... "

The only warning given at 7am from the SLSC via B&B's John Bond (himself a Manly SLSC member), was to consider the surf conditions and if you feel uncomfortable, enter the water near the steps by the pool ("half way") rather than through the surf break.

The 7am group is the largest and final group to enter the water with swimmers finished by 7:30. There was about 8 swimmers who swam another lap ("doublers") who would have finished about 8am, but they wouldn't have exited the water at Manly but instead turned around off the point, 100 metres or so offshore. The doublers wouldn't have known of any imminent closure of the beach by the SLSC.

Even the journalist's own report states the shark was sighted and reported at 8am, by which time all of the 164 B&B swimmers that have logged their swim for today, would have either long left the water or, in the case of the handful of doublers, been just about to exit.

The photo accompanying the article would have been taken at Shelly at about 7:15am, prior to any reporting of the shark to the SLSC.

So it would appear that the journalists claim of defiant swimmers is fabricated.

To a regular B&B swimmer, there's other inconsistencies between the swimmers' quotes and the narrative of the story that stick out like dog's balls shark's claspers.

 

 

 

So its like Donald Trump says of the media, fakenews. 

Was more about whether we should follow the advice of vollies and first responders or self indulge where we may or may not have more knowledge, rather than the events of this morning wether true, fake or somewhere in the middle.  

Interesting too, couple of years back at shark island swim, a few hammerheads were very close and the clubbies decided not create mayhem and evacuate. Guess a lot less people paddling about in a training swim though.

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12 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

Interesting too, couple of years back at shark island swim, a few hammerheads were very close and the clubbies decided not create mayhem and evacuate. Guess a lot less people paddling about in a training swim though.

I always thought hammerheads were just part of the shark island swim (along with Makos) and everyone kinda just knew they were there. Maybe why the clubbies didn't get crazy?

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8 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

You sounded to be puffing more than Frodo was after his last win.

Yes, casting my big waterlogged mouse fly is hard work.  I need to design a lighter version!

It's rough country out there too, lots of rockhopping.  Must remember to put the EPIRB in my pack next time in case I break a leg.

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On 04/07/2019 at 9:30 PM, Turts said:

Bugger that. 

But I've got toe sucking carp, nibbling shrimp, chomping yabbies, and unmentionable floaties coming out of illegally dumped houseboat toilet tanks........

Now we have even more dangerous wildlife to deal with out at the dam. One of the guys that swims with us went for a walk there today instead. He took this video just across from where we get in & out of the water. 

 

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