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Gilliga

ZIPP 808s were awesome choice for cairns 70.3

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Hi,

I was battling prior to Cairns on what wheels to use, I had been for a while running a disc with a 40mm front. I got myself some 808s, the old dimpled ones with the hub machined to take 11 speed. I only had a few rides on them before and found them to feel light and accelerate well. I find they love a straight line and handle best with weight over the front wheel in aero. Anyways, with the heavy wind and a lot of fast turns during the bike course I found them excellent, I am thinking of just running them all the time moving forward and ditching the disc for good. I biked 2.29 and the guys out on the course around me all had Discs and also seemed to have no issues with the wind, but  I did find heading up rex's and the climbs I was able to have an advantage on them and that was a positive (im 82kg not a noted climber). I definitely dropped some weight on the bike ditching the disc for this set up, the old dimpled tubbies are lighter then the current models too. I thought maybe a 404 up front instead might be even better and get me back to the classic Zipp 606 set up that everyone used to run.

Anyone else running similar or have any thoughts on wheel choice?

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What disc are you running? In my experience you can't beat a really good disc. Like a Zipp 900. If you have a cheaper disc they don't tend to be as good. 

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I had a Token Disc, I did like it, it was a nice wheel to ride and I often tell people who have a disc to just use it no matter what. I found my disc into a tail wind / cross tail was magic but it seemed to work against me a bit into a head wind I would fight it a lot, the 808 in the last 30km cairns heavy head wind was much nice for me. Maybe the flat token disc not the best in that situation?

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1 minute ago, willie said:

What disc are you running? In my experience you can't beat a really good disc. Like a Zipp 900. If you have a cheaper disc they don't tend to be as good. 

When we are talking a saving of only a minute or two over 90Ks in ideal conditions pushing 40km/hr I often wonder if people talk themselves into discs being that much better to avoid buyers remorse after forking out $2K-$4k for a single wheel?

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1 hour ago, Gilliga said:

Hi,

I was battling prior to Cairns on what wheels to use, I had been for a while running a disc with a 40mm front. I got myself some 808s, the old dimpled ones with the hub machined to take 11 speed. I only had a few rides on them before and found them to feel light and accelerate well. I find they love a straight line and handle best with weight over the front wheel in aero. Anyways, with the heavy wind and a lot of fast turns during the bike course I found them excellent, I am thinking of just running them all the time moving forward and ditching the disc for good. I biked 2.29 and the guys out on the course around me all had Discs and also seemed to have no issues with the wind, but  I did find heading up rex's and the climbs I was able to have an advantage on them and that was a positive (im 82kg not a noted climber). I definitely dropped some weight on the bike ditching the disc for this set up, the old dimpled tubbies are lighter then the current models too. I thought maybe a 404 up front instead might be even better and get me back to the classic Zipp 606 set up that everyone used to run.

Anyone else running similar or have any thoughts on wheel choice?

Any power numbers from the ride for a bit better comparison?  I rode a Giant Propel with clip ons and mavic 45mm wheels for a 5.28 in the full which included a short stop at special needs.  Av power of 182, NP of 190w which was steady across the ride.  Not sure weight would come into it on that course with only 900m of climbing but if it does I was at 70kgs. My best guess is I gave up 15mins+ by not having my old P5 with trispoke front and rear disc.

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20 minutes ago, truck said:

Any power numbers from the ride for a bit better comparison?  I rode a Giant Propel with clip ons and mavic 45mm wheels for a 5.28 in the full which included a short stop at special needs.  Av power of 182, NP of 190w which was steady across the ride.  Not sure weight would come into it on that course with only 900m of climbing but if it does I was at 70kgs. My best guess is I gave up 15mins+ by not having my old P5 with trispoke front and rear disc.

 

Average power 230 watts, I was averaging 240 first half then 220 second half. 82kg P3 Classics with Tri Rig front end and brakes and 808s. Bontrager Aero Road Helmet. I rode 2.29. The guys who bike 2.25 seemed to take 4 mins out of me in the last 30km, I needed more power then (just comparing the splits at 65km marker to the 90km marker). I was solo that last section so either those guys had some others to rotate with or I just slowed to much. Also it might reflect my training where I don't always have time to go beyond 2 hours in training often with the young family and work.

 

One thing in comparing the full to the half is that its not an exact double course. You guys have that top section into port douglas twice and we don't have that at all and we have the 30km block head wind hell section once and so do you. So as a percentage we have 33% of race tail wind 67% head wind while the full ironman has like 42% tail wind and 58% head wind. 

 

You are prob right on 15mins with your set up on road bike v the p5 and aggressive wheels. Its not like there are huge climbs where a road bike is an advantage in any section.

 

 

Edited by Gilliga

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what disc have you got? There's no weight saving if you something like a Super 9. My Zipp disc is 900 grams, Firecrest 808 rear is 1000gm, pre-fircrest are heavier. There are some discs, like HEDs that weigh a bit more though, 1300gms. Never had any issues with disc in high, storm winds.

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29 minutes ago, zed said:

what disc have you got? There's no weight saving if you something like a Super 9. My Zipp disc is 900 grams, Firecrest 808 rear is 1000gm, pre-fircrest are heavier. There are some discs, like HEDs that weigh a bit more though, 1300gms. Never had any issues with disc in high, storm winds.

Thats awesome the Zipp disc so light, my dimpled 808s are claimed under 1600g for a set, so the rear mus be about same weight as your disc. I have a Token brand disc, must be 1.3kg and flat. Im all for people riding discs I think they do handle well all conditions, but it looks like not all discs created equal?

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That's a low PSI, are they Tubeless? I like the sound of that combo, the old 606 style! How was your race Ben, I haven't checked the results.

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39 minutes ago, Gilliga said:

Thats awesome the Zipp disc so light, my dimpled 808s are claimed under 1600g for a set, so the rear mus be about same weight as your disc. I have a Token brand disc, must be 1.3kg and flat. Im all for people riding discs I think they do handle well all conditions, but it looks like not all discs created equal?

I'm guessing it's a spoked wheel with carbon cover like Flo, HED etc I think the Caden disc is even lighter at 830 grams!

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27 minutes ago, zed said:

I'm guessing it's a spoked wheel with carbon cover like Flo, HED etc I think the Caden disc is even lighter at 830 grams!

No its a solid disc, I never actually weighed it. Token DT58, its 1280g

 

https://www.amazon.com/Token-Products-DT58-Carbon-Tubular/dp/B00SPXY8YS/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Edited by Gilliga

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47 minutes ago, Gilliga said:

That's a low PSI, are they Tubeless? I like the sound of that combo, the old 606 style! How was your race Ben, I haven't checked the results.

Yeah not tubeless but insanely wide so they run low pressures well. Race went well for where I was at blew out on the run but ill be back

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45 minutes ago, zed said:

I'm guessing it's a spoked wheel with carbon cover like Flo, HED etc I think the Caden disc is even lighter at 830 grams!

Where are you seeing the Caden discs? Cant see them on his website?

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1 hour ago, bengillespie78 said:

Yeah not tubeless but insanely wide so they run low pressures well. Race went well for where I was at blew out on the run but ill be back

I've found this on my 2017 404 FCs. They are crazy wide. I run 23mm GP4k2 and they inflate to 25mm at 80psi.

I'm 81kgs and use that set up for IM, TT, road bike, wherever  seems to be fine to me.

 

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2 hours ago, more said:

Where are you seeing the Caden discs? Cant see them on his website?

AFAIK he's only selling them low volume, to order? Not sure though. I think Ironpro has one. 

I think RRP was $1800, so not super cheap. 

Edited by zed

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54 minutes ago, zed said:

AFAIK he's only selling them low volume, to order? Not sure though. I think Ironpro has one. 

I think RRP was $1800, so not super cheap. 

Still heaps cheaper than a super 9 though I guess.. I'd be interested in its construction 

Edited by more

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I used a disc (1000gm direct from China) with an 808 front on the 70.3 at 80kg. Average power 220w and 2.30 time. I think the science only puts about 40 secs difference between that and the 808 over 90km - so by the time you put power meter variances and aero variances the times seem to align pretty well. Hairy legs or sleeves apparently make more of a difference, so what you feel better on is probably the best bet!

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That’s really interesting we basically same weight same power average and same bike split. So the disc v 808 is a tight battle. 

 

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6 hours ago, Gilliga said:

That’s really interesting we basically same weight same power average and same bike split. So the disc v 808 is a tight battle. 

 

Yes but one person might be as aero as a brick and the other super slippery, so can’t do any comparison 

a lot also depends on how you rode to get those 220 watts , tyre type , brand , tubbie V clincher and pressure etc etc 

 

 

Edited by ironpo

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I rode FFwd 90+disc, and had no issue with the winds for Cairns, was out there a lot longer than 2:29 as well.

For me, while there was a head wind from the south, it didn't move me around (again, another one of these heavier riders), with no gusts, just a steady blow, the 90 behaved itself, and the disc was rock solid as always.

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I love my 808's. Just hope there's some races this coming summer to use them in.

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