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nealo

Insurance companies are Racists! Or should be!

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So out of the inquisitive mind of a 16 year old comes this question. Mainly because he's wanting to know why it's going to cost him more to insure a car he'd like to purchase.

How come insurance is more expensive for being male, being young, being old, living in a Suburb out West, being male but not for your race?

Why can Insurance companies ask all those questions and base their price on the answer you give but not ask you where you were born and put a risk ranking against that answer?

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Depends if being born in nz makes you a worse driver than an Aussie?  Using nz as an example. 

However a 18 year old guy is probably more likely to do something dumb compared to a 45 year guy. 

I sure as shit hope tradies pay more than everyone. They all drive like farktards 

Edited by Peter

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I would assume it’s because there is probably no data base to relate that metric against.

i assume the risk is calculated on accident data, and nowhere have I seen “race” as a box to be filled in on an accident report. 

Therefore if they can measure it they can’t put a price on it, so it’s left to the reported metrics; age, sex, postcode etc. 

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12 minutes ago, Peter said:

I sure as shit hope tradies pay more than everyone. They all drive like farktards 

Yep there's another one, occupation.

 

7 minutes ago, roxii said:

I would assume it’s because there is probably no data base to relate that metric against.

Right so why wouldn't they start asking the question?

Rece?

Occupation?

Car colour (I think they ask this one)?

There might be a period of 5 years where they ask the question to gather the data and then start quoting against this data.

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3 minutes ago, nealo said:

Yep there's another one, occupation.

 

Right so why wouldn't they start asking the question?

Rece?

Occupation?

Car colour (I think they ask this one)?

There might be a period of 5 years where they ask the question to gather the data and then start quoting against this data.

Probably not allowed I’d guess. 

Also it’s probably not something they can check.

with Mixed race people when do they stop being “middle eastern” or “Asian”, how many generations or “dilutions” 

what if you are born here but have two Asian parents are you Aussie or Asian as far as race is concerned.

probably just too big a can of worms. 

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Why do they need to ask what race, where youre born stuff? Im not sure why tbey need to know that?

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Probably because it would be a protected field under discrimination legislation and would be either illegal, or open to some ambulance chaser wanting to make a few bucks through a class action.

Same thing happens with 'diversity' champions, the same people who want us to report on how companies are getting a more diverse workforce (ie LGBQTI?, disabled, long term unemployed, etc) can't seem to get through their peanut brains we can't report on what we a) can't ask and b) can't record.  And that's before considering you can't ask these questions in the recruitment process...

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33 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Why do they need to ask what race, where youre born stuff? Im not sure why tbey need to know that?

Loads of forms in the UK ask about ethnicity etc, I always put 'Other'  (keeps 'em guessing :lol: )

Don't get Mrs FP started on the term 'Asian' over here. :blowup:

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21 minutes ago, FatPom said:

Loads of forms in the UK ask about ethnicity etc, I always put 'Other'  (keeps 'em guessing :lol: )

Don't get Mrs FP started on the term 'Asian' over here. :blowup:

If what I see on tv is anything to go by most of the folks I see referring to themselves as Asian in the uk are what we would call Indian/ Pakistani/ Bangladeshi 

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1 hour ago, Surfer said:

Why do they need to ask what race, where youre born stuff? Im not sure why tbey need to know that?

They don't "need" to ask.

There are a lot of anti discrimination laws around age, race, religion, sex, yet  insurance companies can charge someone more if they're male, more if they're young.

Drawing a long bow my son asked the question where does it stop? Do certain races have more crashes than others? Do they claim more?

Are certain occupations better drivers than others? Should occupations be asked and they get discounts?

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Insurance is a gamble but a strange one, whereby you bet that if you lose then you win. 

Like me never had a home or contents claim so was feeling like I was throwing the money away. Then a tornado rips the roof off and I get the benefit of a life’s worth of premiums payed out no questions. 

however like all gambling operations the “house” weighs the odds in their favour all the time. 

Being a young male driver is like living in a flood zone or a bushfire area. Statistically you are over represented in the claim statistics, I would say regardless of race, so they are all penalised for that. 

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I object to paying the same premium for a car I drive 5000 km a year compared to 15000km a year. All other factors considered surely that’s triple my risk. 

The companies boasting a revolutionary pricing method and huge savings give me virtually no discount compared to the big players

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....and if we are going down this rabbit hole why is my health insurance the same as an obese,  smoking,  heavy drinker ? 

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4 minutes ago, roxii said:

....and if we are going down this rabbit hole why is my health insurance the same as an obese,  smoking,  heavy drinker ? 

And they probably think that anybody that rides a bike on the road should pay more as well.

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23 minutes ago, roxii said:

....and if we are going down this rabbit hole why is my health insurance the same as an obese,  smoking,  heavy drinker ? 

How do you know ours is the same?

 

And I don't smoke!

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50 minutes ago, Parkside said:

I object to paying the same premium for a car I drive 5000 km a year compared to 15000km a year. All other factors considered surely that’s triple my risk. 

 

From my time where I have had fleet management earlier in my career I'd argue those that drive less have the more accidents.  After distractions and impairment, I reckon confidence / competence is the biggest factor in accidents

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4 hours ago, roxii said:

If what I see on tv is anything to go by most of the folks I see referring to themselves as Asian in the uk are what we would call Indian/ Pakistani/ Bangladeshi 

Yep

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so while we're at it, why do women get charged more for a haircut? When I say more - way more. Like double. Even when they're sitting in the chair for the same amount of time as the guy in the next chair.

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26 minutes ago, The Customer said:

so while we're at it, why do women get charged more for a haircut? When I say more - way more. Like double. Even when they're sitting in the chair for the same amount of time as the guy in the next chair.

Haha...  In that case, based on my thinning hair and receding hairline I should only be paying $5.00 for my haircut compared to gorilla boy sitting next to me who'll be charged $35.00 for his!

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3 minutes ago, Go Easy said:

Haha...  In that case, based on my thinning hair and receding hairline I should only be paying $5.00 for my haircut compared to gorilla boy sitting next to me who'll be charged $35.00 for his!

Nowadays when I go in for a haircut they don't ask how 'much would you like off'...  they say which 'ones' would you like cut!! :lol:

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7 hours ago, nealo said:

How do you know ours is the same?

 

And I don't smoke!

They aren't allowed to charge differently due to any mitigating factor. The only variance is they can charge you more if you join after a certain age (some time in your late 80's).

Life insurance charges are based on risk, but health insurance isn't.

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2 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

They aren't allowed to charge differently due to any mitigating factor. The only variance is they can charge you more if you join after a certain age (some time in your late 80's).

Life insurance charges are based on risk, but health insurance isn't.

Health funds: community rating is what it’s called. Can you imagine the premium for the people who are the unhealthiest. By having us subsidise the greatest risk group it makes it “affordable” across the community. Car insurance doesn’t have this protection and premiums are adjusted depending on risk factors. They smash young kids and those with a poor driving record

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3 hours ago, The Customer said:

so while we're at it, why do women get charged more for a haircut? When I say more - way more. Like double. Even when they're sitting in the chair for the same amount of time as the guy in the next chair.

I guess in a free market the real question is why do women pay more? 

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1 hour ago, more said:

I guess in a free market the real question is why do women pay more? 

and why do women who own hairdressing salons exploit their sisters in this way by charging them more.

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2 hours ago, Parkside said:

Health funds: community rating is what it’s called. Can you imagine the premium for the people who are the unhealthiest. By having us subsidise the greatest risk group it makes it “affordable” across the community. Car insurance doesn’t have this protection and premiums are adjusted depending on risk factors. They smash young kids and those with a poor driving record

There's no doubt that insurance companies would have access to plenty of details from accident reports that would allow them to make such categories if they were significant, but I suspect that "young male" trumps whatever ethnicity they are, in terms of risk factor. Add "V8" or "Turbo" to that, and you'll be paying big-time.

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15 hours ago, Parkside said:

I object to paying the same premium for a car I drive 5000 km a year compared to 15000km a year. All other factors considered surely that’s triple my risk. 

Youi is the insurance company for you if that’s the case. 

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2 hours ago, Parkside said:

and why do women who own hairdressing salons exploit their sisters in this way by charging them more.

to make up for the gender pay gap?

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10 hours ago, The Customer said:

so while we're at it, why do women get charged more for a haircut? When I say more - way more. Like double. Even when they're sitting in the chair for the same amount of time as the guy in the next chair.

It's classic price discrimination utilising the fact that men and women have different price elasticities for hair cuts. Same as kids tickets to the cinema being cheaper than adults.

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17 hours ago, roxii said:

....and if we are going down this rabbit hole why is my health insurance the same as an obese,  smoking,  heavy drinker ? 

people that exercise do a lot injuries, joint replacements, bone breaks, heart attacks, mental health, diet issues like anorexia and bulmia.  That mercer guy, pop, dead.  Welch, carney. Don't think its straight forward otherwise they would weigh you and charge accordingly to fat.   There are whole suburbs in sydney you will die ten years earlier just because of where you live, those people must save us money as they are checking out rather then having ten years of medical aid.

A guy that sits at a bar and necks a beer is inherently safer and at less risk then someone that rides a bicycle on a sydney road or mountain bikes down a dirt track.... 

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1 minute ago, Oompa Loompa said:

people that exercise do a lot injuries, joint replacements, bone breaks, heart attacks, mental health, diet issues like anorexia and bulmia.  That mercer guy, pop, dead.  Welch, carney. Don't think its straight forward otherwise they would weigh you and charge accordingly to fat.   There are whole suburbs in sydney you will die ten years earlier just because of where you live, those people must save us money as they are checking out rather then having ten years of medical aid.

A guy that sits at a bar and necks a beer is inherently safer and at less risk then someone that rides a bicycle on a sydney road or mountain bikes down a dirt track.... 

Yep... it's the same argument as "Why should Medicare cover smoker illness?" which if you extend it means Medicare shouldn't cover anyone who is hurt or sick because of a choice they have made (e.g. playing rugby) but then to extend it further everything we do is a choice at some point...

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17 hours ago, Parkside said:

I object to paying the same premium for a car I drive 5000 km a year compared to 15000km a year. All other factors considered surely that’s triple my risk. 

The companies boasting a revolutionary pricing method and huge savings give me virtually no discount compared to the big players

car companies are doing that now, certainly gio is as my daughter took out a policy this week ($800 cheaper at the gio then nrma re that other thread you had).   its same for points re loss of licence, if someone drives 5000km or less probably should only have 5 points or something to lose their licence rather then the full whack as they drive less and have less skill/ time at the wheel to practice/ get better.

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10 minutes ago, monkie said:

Yep... it's the same argument as "Why should Medicare cover smoker illness?" which if you extend it means Medicare shouldn't cover anyone who is hurt or sick because of a choice they have made (e.g. playing rugby) but then to extend it further everything we do is a choice at some point...

yep.  exactly right.   and as for the original post, just change your name to steve smith or bob brown and watch the price come down compared to some middle eastern name.

i go through airport security with a middle eastern bloke a bit, we joke before we go through who is going to get the extra check at the end and let me tell you,  it aint the white anglo male....... even since it went to auto pick after julie bishop whinged and whined.  racism is everywhere in Australia, certainly worse in some areas then other, 110% its worse where I live then where I work in sydney.

Edited by Oompa Loompa

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actually racism in the shire works like a wave, its like a massive wave at waterfall and cronulla and by the time you get to tom uglies bridge its like a wave stopping/ turning up the beach and going back out to sea, still there but hardly noticeable....lol

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2 hours ago, Oompa Loompa said:

yep.  exactly right.   and as for the original post, just change your name to steve smith or bob brown and watch the price come down compared to some middle eastern name.

i go through airport security with a middle eastern bloke a bit, we joke before we go through who is going to get the extra check at the end and let me tell you,  it aint the white anglo male....... even since it went to auto pick after julie bishop whinged and whined.  racism is everywhere in Australia, certainly worse in some areas then other, 110% its worse where I live then where I work in sydney.

I fly a fair bit for work and am white anglo and get selected for swabs 9 times out of 10....and I'm clean cut and in a suit so mehhhh

Does drive me insane though, I wonder if they have ever found anyone carrying anything because of them flipping swabs... 

Edited by more

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13 minutes ago, more said:

I fly a fair bit for work and am white anglo and get selected for swabs 9 times out of 10....and I'm clean cut and in a suit so mehhhh

Does drive me insane though, I wonder if they have ever found anyone carrying anything because of them flipping swabs... 

Every. Time. My favourite is the "just wait a moment sir" as if they would find explosives and then just let me chill in the lounge!

Shopping in JB HIFI with my black colleague though... Only happened three times but every time I was nodded out and she got get bag searched. N=1 != Data but still interesting.

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On 07/06/2019 at 6:59 PM, roxii said:

with Mixed race people when do they stop being “middle eastern” or “Asian”, how many generations or “dilutions” 

Apparently, at least 8 or 9 generations if a story I was told a few years ago about a person claiming indigenous descent rights had any truth to it.

AJ

 

 

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