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Flanman

Ahh.... the off season - or is it ?

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So for most of us in the Southern Hemisphere, there aren't too many Tri races left. All the A and B races are done. So for a large number of us, it is time to let your hair down, a few beers, food and doing the things around the house that have been put off over the summer. Or is it ??

The last 15 years or so, I have taken between four to eight weeks off solid training. Still exercising but mainly mucking around and letting the body have a break. But this year, I am doing things a little differently. My run times have been failing the last five years - dramatically, compared to my swim and cycle times. In fact, my swim and cycle times have stayed or improved even though I have just moved into a new AG :wheelchair:  . So ,I've decided to have a winter of build and change. I will still swim a little as usual, cycle a little more but.. a heavy focus on my running and core strength. Hopefully by Nepean Tri and WS 70.3, I will hit a better run time than the last few years.

So, what is your off-season looking like (if any) ? Is it refresh/recovery, maintenance, a winter run or duathlon season, build or f**k all ???

FM 

PS: Forgot to say, this starts next week.....

Edited by Flanman
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My focus is getting consistency, strengthening the core, dropping weight, learning to swim and building some speed in the bike and run.

So definitely going to be busy.

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My off season sounds a lot like yours Flanny.  After a really frustrating year and a half I'm looking at rebuilding a solid base over winter with a definite focus on the run.  I've been swimming a bit more consistently recently so I'm also looking to kick on with that via lots of B&B swims 

Looking forward to comparing notes at Nepean 😉

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Will continue to work on strength and keep the distance up. City to Surf in August then we fly out to Lausanne for worlds. Might try to lose some size and tone up for that damn tri suit. 🤣

I think me concentrating on the strength work in the gym has helped immensely with maintaining and gaining bike and run power as well as avoiding injury. 

 

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Well, I didn't have an on-season so no point in having an off season! I can't run train atm so have decided to tri train for the first time. This means actual bike training and doing proper swim sets... All runs to be pretty easy for now...

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33 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

..... lots of B&B swims

Winter swimming is some of the best down there.

Water clarity and ocean conditions are frequently as good as gets.

Enjoy!

Edited by Paul Every
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2 minutes ago, BogFrog said:

😫

Aye feel your pain from you not being able to play at the moment :(

Edited by monkie

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I don't call it the off season. I call it spending more time with the family. 

I'm terrible at getting stuck in the junk food / sugar trap after Ironman. I eat all the foods that I have denied myself while training for Ironman. Then I get stuck in the sugar addiction & all over a sudden I wake up 8kg heavier. 

That's why I'm enjoying racing my bike. There is a race on every week and another short term goal to chase. 

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26 minutes ago, monkie said:

Aye feel your pain from you not being able to play at the moment :(

Woe is me!

🎻 - the worlds smallest violin 😜

Edited by BogFrog
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9 hours ago, Flanman said:

So for most of us in the Southern Hemisphere, there aren't too many Tri races left. All the A and B races are done. So for a large number of us, it is time to let your hair down, a few beers, food and doing the things around the house that have been put off over the summer. Or is it ??

The last 15 years or so, I have taken between four to eight weeks off solid training. Still exercising but mainly mucking around and letting the body have a break. But this year, I am doing things a little differently. My run times have been failing the last five years - dramatically, compared to my swim and cycle times. In fact, my swim and cycle times have stayed or improved even though I have just moved into a new AG :wheelchair:  . So ,I've decided to have a winter of build and change. I will still swim a little as usual, cycle a little more but.. a heavy focus on my running and core strength. Hopefully by Nepean Tri and WS 70.3, I will hit a better run time than the last few years.

So, what is your off-season looking like (if any) ? Is it refresh/recovery, maintenance, a winter run or duathlon season, build or f**k all ???

FM 

PS: Forgot to say, this starts next week.....

Mike l invite you to come along to the campbelltown joggers. I'm only a new member but they're a great bunch. 

I've entered Nepean as well but I need to learn how to swim before I enter WS70.3 

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10 hours ago, monkie said:

It's not the off season. It's marathon season!

Right on! After an unmotivated summer, the upcoming running season has been my inspiration to get my butt into gear. I'm hoping this will reinstate some former running ability and be good prep for the next tri season.

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I'd planned to slowly attempt running again in June (start with 5x 1min run/1min walk), with the objective of doing the local sprint series come October.  But the 150m run up the beach to T1 at Byron on Sat has made me wonder if I can (meniscus trim area got sore again).  Will try some knee-unloader braces and see if they help.

Also just got off the phone with the Doc after a battery of blood tests.  Cholesterol is a bit high (6.5) with the bad cholesterol at 4.5, so it seems I need to do something on that score, though our diet is really pretty good? Need to cut grog consumption too and try to lose 2-3kgs which may also help the knee.

Will continue to ride 3x/wk, swim 2x/wk and gym 1-2x/wk as I've been doing the past 6mths, try to add a little running during my gym sessions.

 

 

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I think as we get older we can't have too much of an off season - definitely a couple of weeks sleep ins after an Ironman (or our major A race for the season) but we need to keep the ball rolling 

In my mid forties I gained a lot from a winter of low intensity running building to a Gold Coast marathon - done simply as a training run to a set HR - this gave me a reason to get out the door through Brisbane's severe winter - I have never run more than 70km in any week of my life - most marathon training weeks for me were only 40-50km

My year went - Forster - 2 weeks off - GC marathon - 2 weeks off -  Kona - 2 weeks off - Forster - 2 weeks off - GC marathon - 2 weeks off - Kona - 2 weeks off -- this routine had me always training for something and as a result I was on a long term development plan which had me gradually reduce my Ironman times by an hour

My marathon times remained the same over three years but the average HR reduced by 5 beats per year, showing my improved aerobic development

Developing an endurance athlete is a long term project - you can't just be one for three months then give it away for the next 6 months - because you virtually start again in the development 😏 

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As Im only swimming and mostly open water, off season depends on how cold the water gets. 

Unfortunately I don't think I fit in my wetsuits any more so either need to lose weight or get a new wetsuit. 

 

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13 hours ago, monkie said:

It's not the off season. It's marathon season!

*cough* Cyclocross *cough*

 

Some of us still have Cairns on the list of races for this season.

Personally, my build for Cairns is broken after some foot issues taking my training offline for a month. Only able to start back again this week :(

After Cairns is some bike specific stuffs, and some soul searching on whether I keep up the IM distance, or if I drop down to the shorter stuff.

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1 hour ago, AP said:

In my mid forties I gained a lot from a winter of low intensity running building to a Gold Coast marathon - done simply as a training run to a set HR - this gave me a reason to get out the door through Brisbane's severe winter - I have never run more than 70km in any week of my life - most marathon training weeks for me were only 40-50km

<snip>

My marathon times remained the same over three years but the average HR reduced by 5 beats per year, showing my improved aerobic development

Huh???  Poor race execution?

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I'll start a 12 week program for IM in september, if I was to take too much time off over winter, a good portion of that 12 week program would be spent getting back to a decent level of fitness. So probs a decent amount of training, just unstructured.

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10 hours ago, Clappers said:

Mike l invite you to come along to the campbelltown joggers. I'm only a new member but they're a great bunch. 

I've entered Nepean as well but I need to learn how to swim before I enter WS70.3 

Thanks for that Pete. My problem is that I fit in training when I can and this changes from week to week. It could be at 4.30am or late at night - even changes during the day as work requires. 

I am just trying to get to Parkrun each week with an added extra run ks to it. I may see you there.

 

Edited by Flanman
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2 hours ago, zed said:

I'll start a 12 week program for IM in september, if I was to take too much time off over winter, a good portion of that 12 week program would be spent getting back to a decent level of fitness. So probs a decent amount of training, just unstructured.

Just ride over winter. I'm surprised how much my bike fitness has carried over to the run. The roads were wet & shitty yesterday & I didn't want to wash my bike again. So I went for a trail run instead. Managed to knock out a 15.5km run in 1:23 with a bit of climbing & several roads to cross.

That's the pace I would run at in my last few weeks of Ironman training.

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Bored's right. Just riding over winter can develop your endurance fitness without the stress on your body that an endurance based running program would have. I've had several winters where I have cycle trained 4 to 5 days a week with an end of winter goal being the 220km Around the Bay ride. One year I was mad enough to do the 250km ride. In those same years my run training was only averaging 40km a week. My running improved gradually with no injuries which was great.

As for down time. I'm having my usual month off after the tri season right now. It's maintenance time for annual checks and all that stuff. I have a forced extension by two weeks right now, courtesy of my surgeon who removed some suspicious looking lumps from my shoulder last week. Nothing as impressive as Crankys scar from late last year.

It's given me time to think through what I can and can't do for training and competing over the next 12 months. Definitely keen to work on my running a bit more. Around the bay looks like it may be on the list as well. 

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5 hours ago, Stikman said:

Huh???  Poor race execution?

What are you talking about - I only did the marathons for aerobic development 

1st year I did 3.13 at 160HR - next year I did 3.13 at 155HR - next year it was 3.13 at 150HR - the marathon was simply an excuse to do the run development - I've never bothered to try for a marathon PB because Ironman was what I was aiming at getting right - there's a whole lot of athletes out there who could gain so much by dedicating a couple of years to aerobic development 🙄

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You said you did the marathon as a training run to a set HR each year and each year your time was the same but at 5 beats lower than the year before.  I don't understand.  Did you drop your target HR by five each year, is that it?  Or was the training all to a set heart rate and the race to a set pace? 

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3 minutes ago, Stikman said:

You said you did the marathon as a training run to a set HR each year and each year your time was the same but at 5 beats lower than the year before.  I don't understand.  Did you drop your target HR by five each year, is that it?  Or was the training all to a set heart rate and the race to a set pace? 

stop being a flea.

 

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I dropped the maximum HR limit each year and strangely enough I ran the same time each year without even wearing a watch - the old HR monitor only showed HR

All through those years I was strict with my upper HR limits - I would walk if my HR went above 153 - and resume running when it dropped back to 148 - my mates would not train with me they liked to race each other but when we went to Forster I would beat them all 

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2 weeks off for me.  That's enough. I feel constantly flat and sleepy if I don't train. 

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9 hours ago, roxii said:

As Im only swimming and mostly open water, off season depends on how cold the water gets. 

Unfortunately I don't think I fit in my wetsuits any more so either need to lose weight or get a new wetsuit. 

 

Or gain some weight insulation and swim through winter without the wetsuit.

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I don't race so I don't have a season or an off season.

I try to be as consistent as I can through the year and listen to the body telling me when I can go a bit harder or when to slow down. It seems to work OK as I'm always in reasonable shape.

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The rest of May is time off, just catching up on all the work on the house I've put off, walking the dogs more and giving the Mrs a bit of time back in her life.

June will be Crossfit as my only training with a ride to work once per week ( 2 * 25km).

July - I'd like to focus on swimming for a month.  I didn't do enough pre-ironman

Aug - Start training for the Summer's sprint series and come up with a plan.   OW swimming is looking like a good focus.

After a very satisfying IM AUS ( although bit disappointed in the time) I'm a little over long course stuff.  12 months of sprints/Oly then re-assess for another event in 2 years.

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23 hours ago, AP said:

What are you talking about - I only did the marathons for aerobic development 

1st year I did 3.13 at 160HR - next year I did 3.13 at 155HR - next year it was 3.13 at 150HR - the marathon was simply an excuse to do the run development - I've never bothered to try for a marathon PB because Ironman was what I was aiming at getting right - there's a whole lot of athletes out there who could gain so much by dedicating a couple of years to aerobic development 🙄

Those HR limits seem too high for one I consider to be...errr... mature. Then again, each person HR differs and most people know their own limits.

I was still suffering a cold at Port this year and I walked anytime my HR got over 150 (60/64 AG).  It was high as soon as I commenced the run.

FM

Edited by Flanman

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4 hours ago, Flanman said:

Those HR limits seem too high for who one I consider to be...errr... mature. Then again, each person HR differs and most people know their own limits.

I was still suffering a cold at Port this year and I walked anytime my HR got over 150 (60/64 AG).  It was high when I started running.

FM

those were his HR when he ran those marathons which was in his mid forties...

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1 hour ago, pieman said:

those were his HR when he ran those marathons which was in his mid forties...

Facts, they always get in the way of a good story.

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On 12/05/2019 at 7:21 PM, Flanman said:

So for most of us in the Southern Hemisphere, there aren't too many Tri races left. All the A and B races are done. So for a large number of us, it is time to let your hair down, a few beers, food and doing the things around the house that have been put off over the summer. Or is it ??

The last 15 years or so, I have taken between four to eight weeks off solid training. Still exercising but mainly mucking around and letting the body have a break. But this year, I am doing things a little differently. My run times have been failing the last five years - dramatically, compared to my swim and cycle times. In fact, my swim and cycle times have stayed or improved even though I have just moved into a new AG :wheelchair:  . So ,I've decided to have a winter of build and change. I will still swim a little as usual, cycle a little more but.. a heavy focus on my running and core strength. Hopefully by Nepean Tri and WS 70.3, I will hit a better run time than the last few years.

So, what is your off-season looking like (if any) ? Is it refresh/recovery, maintenance, a winter run or duathlon season, build or f**k all ???

FM 

PS: Forgot to say, this starts next week.....

Go north (QLD) young man

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On 13/05/2019 at 7:03 PM, trinube said:

I don't race so I don't have a season or an off season.

I try to be as consistent as I can through the year and listen to the body telling me when I can go a bit harder or when to slow down. It seems to work OK as I'm always in reasonable shape.

Wow , how does one stay motivated to train without and end goal.

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6 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Wow , how does one stay motivated to train without and end goal.

The alarm goes off. Get up before you have time to think about it.

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Then be happy the rest of the day that you did. Cause you know you'd beat yourself up if you didn't, and that feels worse than the early morning start.

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8 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Wow , how does one stay motivated to train without and end goal.

Beer and doughnuts

and what Cranky said

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8 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Wow , how does one stay motivated to train without and end goal.

My end goal is good health. It's pretty motivating as you get older.

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2 hours ago, Cranky said:

Then be happy the rest of the day that you did. Cause you know you'd beat yourself up if you didn't, and that feels worse than the early morning start.

0844 And I'm considering getting out of bed. I think I'll go straight to the office this morning. It's allll the way over there. Through the doors I can see from my bed, 3.5m away :P

15579603462841262810515745426069.jpg

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I’m going to give the QTS a go this coming  season. Towed the line at Mooloolaba this year and have rediscovered the bug. But only for the short stuff. For a while....

Planning is fun, checking out all the events coming up.

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2 hours ago, Cranky said:

The alarm goes off. Get up before you have time to think about it.

What's this alarm thing you speak of?

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On 13/05/2019 at 5:05 PM, AP said:

I dropped the maximum HR limit each year and strangely enough I ran the same time each year without even wearing a watch - the old HR monitor only showed HR

All through those years I was strict with my upper HR limits - I would walk if my HR went above 153 - and resume running when it dropped back to 148 - my mates would not train with me they liked to race each other but when we went to Forster I would beat them all 

Hey AP, are you saying that as a mid-40s athlete you were picking ~150bpm as your aerobic pace?

I ask because I was listening to a recent interview with Dr Phil (not the one from Oprah) and he seemed adamant that your MAF heart rate at that age would ~135bpm (perhaps allowing a few extra bpm if you have not been ill, not on any medication, been training consistently, etc - I suspect you’re familiar with his views).

Or to put it another way, what’s your approach to using heart rate?

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Phil's books and interviews are geared towards the general public (likely to sue over anything) so he keeps figures low and "safe"

HRs vary from person to person - can vary as much as 20-30 beats from one person's max to another's max

The karvoven method individualises it - if you are fit and healthy - test yourself and get a true max HR - subtract your resting HR - this will give you your "working range" - take 80% of that and add your resting HR to that - this is the figure to stay below do develop your endurance and fuel efficiency

I have found that if you stay fit as you age your max HR doesn't drop off the way an age related HR is suggested to - when I was in my 40s my max HR was around 185 - when I was 60 I still reached 178 in a workout when I wasn't even searching for a max figure, just (gutsing out some bike intervals) 

One of the guys I train is in his 40s and has a max of 170 - another guy is 76 and his max is still over 180

The old formular of percentage of age is inaccurate for a serious athlete 😏

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46 minutes ago, AP said:

Phil's books and interviews are geared towards the general public (likely to sue over anything) so he keeps figures low and "safe"

HRs vary from person to person - can vary as much as 20-30 beats from one person's max to another's max

The karvoven method individualises it - if you are fit and healthy - test yourself and get a true max HR - subtract your resting HR - this will give you your "working range" - take 80% of that and add your resting HR to that - this is the figure to stay below do develop your endurance and fuel efficiency

I have found that if you stay fit as you age your max HR doesn't drop off the way an age related HR is suggested to - when I was in my 40s my max HR was around 185 - when I was 60 I still reached 178 in a workout when I wasn't even searching for a max figure, just (gutsing out some bike intervals) 

One of the guys I train is in his 40s and has a max of 170 - another guy is 76 and his max is still over 180

The old formular of percentage of age is inaccurate for a serious athlete 😏

AP do you have two training squads?

An elite/seriuos athlete group and a general fitness group?

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On 16/05/2019 at 8:56 AM, Bored@work said:

What's this alarm thing you speak of?

It's funny because I am so used to my alarm, Dazza's phone alarm went off the other day before mine (he takes longer to get ready on race day than me) and I'm trying to turn it if on MY WATCH... not realising why it wasn't working until I fully woke up.

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22 minutes ago, Cranky said:

It's funny because I am so used to my alarm, Dazza's phone alarm went off the other day before mine (he takes longer to get ready on race day than me) and I'm trying to turn it if on MY WATCH... not realising why it wasn't working until I fully woke up.

god forbid you sleep past 4am! :lol:

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17 hours ago, willie said:

god forbid you sleep past 4am! :lol:

You're missing my daily messages aren't you! 🤣

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On 17/05/2019 at 7:59 AM, AP said:

Phil's books and interviews are geared towards the general public (likely to sue over anything) so he keeps figures low and "safe"

HRs vary from person to person - can vary as much as 20-30 beats from one person's max to another's max

The karvoven method individualises it - if you are fit and healthy - test yourself and get a true max HR - subtract your resting HR - this will give you your "working range" - take 80% of that and add your resting HR to that - this is the figure to stay below do develop your endurance and fuel efficiency

I have found that if you stay fit as you age your max HR doesn't drop off the way an age related HR is suggested to - when I was in my 40s my max HR was around 185 - when I was 60 I still reached 178 in a workout when I wasn't even searching for a max figure, just (gutsing out some bike intervals) 

One of the guys I train is in his 40s and has a max of 170 - another guy is 76 and his max is still over 180

The old formular of percentage of age is inaccurate for a serious athlete 😏

Thanks for sharing that AP.

So applying what you’ve outlined to an athlete with a max HR of 185 and resting HR of 50 would be a 158 cap. I would have thought maintaining that might be above an “aerobic” pace?

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