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Weight loss and running

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So question begs (I've done some googling) how much time would I lose over 5k if I lost 20kgs? I was 116kgs at one point, I'm back to 97 and want to be 78 by the years end.

I'm in a good place, running consistently with a few mates (they're also in my coaching squad I too got a mentor to help guide the process) and started to get some of the old fire back. I actually enjoyed doing a Mona fartlek yesterday. It hurt like hell but got it done. 

I want to run a 5k PB... I've seen a couple of my guys drop from 18.xx to 15.xx in the last 12 months, and one lady go from 38mins to 23.30 with a 24kg weight loss, I figured I might not be done yet. 

I need to go from circa 21 at the moment to low 15 in the next 24-36 months. I figured 20kgs would get me back to mid 17mins and then it was fitness and hard work from there... Am I delirious? 

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There used to be a calculator out there that would figure out this (runningforfitness.org) but the site has disappeared. You could find out how much pace improvements you would have for every kg lost. 

Going from 21 to low 15s is a HUGE jump though in my opinion. Won't a 15 minute 5K mean you'd probably easily win any parkrun you entered?

Also, I would have thought its more about bodyfat that weight per se in terms of performance....

Edited by dazmuzza
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I'm sure Ruley once posted something that it's like 7 seconds per kg down to a certain weight.  Could be wrong

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I started looking st this when I was just over 30. My stats were five seconds per km. That was only running, no tests on the bike. This was based on the same HR over differing courses  

I didn’t get a a chance to work out if there was a bottom weight to time gained.i didn’t want to go that far, especially for health reasons. 

FM

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Interested to know the answer.

I'm down to 78/79kg & have noticed huge improvements on the bike. I ran 10km at lunnch time last week for shit & giggles & held 5;20 pace no problems at all. Which is quickish for me esp since my last run was before Ironman Maryland last September.

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20 minutes ago, dazmuzza said:

There used to be a calculator out there that would figure out this (runningforfitness.org) but the site has disappeared.

Going from 21 to low 15s is a HUGE jump though in my opinion. Won't a 15 minute 5K mean you'd probably easily win any parkrun you entered?

Yeah I was looking for that calculator. Glad I'm not going mad when I couldn't find it. 

Going from 21 to 15 is big, but not if you've run low 15 before... If it was someone that came to me for coaching that had never run that pace before I'd say no, not possible. I've been there and done it. I reckon I can definitely get back to 15.xx, the low 15.xx is another story. 

21 minutes ago, Peter said:

I'm sure Ruley once posted something that it's like 7 seconds per kg down to a certain weight.  Could be wrong

I reckon that is close. I find I lose a minute for every 5kgs I go down at the moment. Thats off the 20-30kms I'm running a week I've done the last few years, so a but of fitness and weight loss. 

I'm gearing up to get back to 100k plus a week before the year is out. I reckon September will be 120+/week (at 60-70 now) then 4 weeks race specific into Queenstown Half Mara. Week off after then it's onto the track and learning how to hurt again.

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100+ kms per is a lot of kms for a half marathon. Anything else planned ?

FM

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9 minutes ago, Flanman said:

100+ kms per is a lot of kms for a half marathon. Anything else planned ?

FM

Nope, it's pretty standard even fora 5000 or 10000 track athlete wanting to run a 15min 5000 ;) if I was doing a mara it'd be more like 140+ a week. The elite mara guys are regularly 180+ a week. They drop back to about 120-130 for a taper week 😮

Back before I started triathlon properly I was at about 110 average when I set my PBs. 

I have no interest in a marathon, did one last year and hated every step past 25k. 

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:jawdrop:

That's a lot of shoes right there!

I lost 50kg once upon a time, however, I wasn't running before I lost weight and I don't have any data whilst losing the weight. Breaking 25:00 took the best part of 5 years for me! 

 

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2 hours ago, xblane said:

:jawdrop:

That's a lot of shoes right there!

I lost 50kg once upon a time, however, I wasn't running before I lost weight and I don't have any data whilst losing the weight. Breaking 25:00 took the best part of 5 years for me! 

 

I used to wear through a pair every 6 weeks, lucky I don't pay for em, or don't pay much for em when I have to (sans the 4% and now next% I got). 

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I came across 4secs per kg per km a while back - clearly will stop at some point though. As I’ve been doing more running and joining a couple of groups I’ve been staggered by how much running pure runners do - seemed incomprehensible at first but I can now see how they can do 100km+ a week and keep backing it up. 

Of course there’s another way -  In a recent race I worked out if I’d have been wearing those nike shoes that give you a 4% benefit i’d have gone from 5th to 1st😂

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This is a great one, just plugin the numbers and change the weight to see the predicted change for different distances.

RunningCalculator.xls

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geee there's two things I so need to do just in the title....

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On 03/05/2019 at 11:33 PM, Rog said:

This is a great one, just plugin the numbers and change the weight to see the predicted change for different distances.

RunningCalculator.xls 177.5 kB · 2 downloads

Handy. Thanks Rog. 

Well the goal has been set for November, sub 84mins over the Queenstown Half Mara (approx 9 mins off my PB) Spoken to a few people and it's a tough goal, but achievable provided I drop the KGs. I reckon if I'm under 85 I should do it comfortably. If I miraculously end up under 80, I reckon sub 80min is on the cards ;)

Then going to have a crack at sub 9.30 3000 on the track and sub 16.20 5000 over the summer. 

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About 3:20 based on 50 secs per 5kg over 5km. Another way to think about it. Get you Daniels VDot for your current time. Multiply it by the weight you ran that time at and you loosely get a VO figure for total body. Divide that by the target weight and get a new VDot figure. This assumes your new weight is not too low to create other problems. In your example 97 x 47 (VDot) is 4559 (or 4.559L). If you get to the target weight your VDot should be 58 (4559 / 78) all other factors being equal. 58 VDot is 17:33 - so you still got some other work to do weight aside.

Edited to say just saw Rog's post and I was repeating his info

Edited by hodgey
Saw Rog's post

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I was running 8:15-8:30min k's over 5k when I was *shudder* 122kg

I am now 91kg and running 6:45-7:00min k's

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43 minutes ago, hodgey said:

58 VDot is 17:33 - so you still got some other work to do weight aside.

I just ran a 2.42 (I don't think many people here would come close to that) flat out 1km TT and a 20.27 5km. Considering what I was running 4 weeks ago the legs are coming back pretty quick, weight is 98.2 now and I don't see sub 17 being overly difficult... my biggest issue is weight, followed by endurance. Speed is still there. 

I'm a 'natural' when it comes to running and I reckon it will be a real struggle when I get down to about 16.30. My ability with get me to that, then it's hard work down to 15 odd mins. 

When I say '9 mins off, I meant 9 mins away. As in 9 mins slower than I used to be. 

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On 17/05/2019 at 1:38 PM, MissJess said:

I am now 91kg and running 6:45-7:00min k's

Do you need to update this after today? 

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On 17/05/2019 at 2:06 PM, willie said:

I just ran a 2.42 (I don't think many people here would come close to that) 

I don't think I could!!!

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1 hour ago, monkie said:

I don't think I could!!!

I think you could come very very close. Certainly under 3/km

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4 minutes ago, willie said:

I think you could come very very close. Certainly under 3/km

I reckon I could do a 2:55 but I am not build for speed but for endurance when it comes to running.

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15 hours ago, Tyno said:

Do you need to update this after today? 

Probably, although I am wondering if I will ever do that again :huh::w00t2:

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10 hours ago, monkie said:

I reckon I could do a 2:55 but I am not build for speed but for endurance when it comes to running.

Come to the track one day and I'll pace you to a 2.45 ;) basically, 1.06, 1.06 and hang on for death or glory the last 200m (yeah 2.12 800 on the way). When I was fast when I was younger sub 2.30 was possible 😮

1 hour ago, MissJess said:

Probably, although I am wondering if I will ever do that again :huh::w00t2:

Oh FFS, get some confidence about ya! Of course you will and probably quicker. Staying away from injury is key for you I reckon... 

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On 17/05/2019 at 5:06 AM, willie said:

I just ran a 2.42 (I don't think many people here would come close to that) flat out 1km TT and a 20.27 5km. Considering what I was running 4 weeks ago the legs are coming back pretty quick, weight is 98.2 now and I don't see sub 17 being overly difficult... my biggest issue is weight, followed by endurance. Speed is still there. 

 

Something seems a bit off here. 2.42 is mighty quick for a 1km but 20.27 for 5km isn’t. ( relatively).

Are you dying in the ass at some point during the 5km or are those evenly split Kms? Seems like taking that weight off will release an obviously huge engine.

Good luck 👍

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24 minutes ago, FatPom said:

Something seems a bit off here. 2.42 is mighty quick for a 1km but 20.27 for 5km isn’t. ( relatively).

Are you dying in the ass at some point during the 5km or are those evenly split Kms? Seems like taking that weight off will release an obviously huge engine.

Good luck 👍

I think that's WIllie's point. He's got the power and can move his legs at the required speed but is currently too heavy / not enough KMs in his legs to keep it up... I

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1 hour ago, monkie said:

I think that's WIllie's point. He's got the power and can move his legs at the required speed but is currently too heavy / not enough KMs in his legs to keep it up... I

Bingo, I'm too fat to run fast (measured Vo2 max is 56 untrained). I ran the half mara this morning and was 97.6 at the start. The huge drop off over 5kms is pretty much due to the fact running at 98kgs is like running uphill constantly, then you get to a hill and you need to be careful not to destroy yourself. The longer I go the bigger the drop off. I can get to 3km in 11.10, but am absolutely annihilated. 

Now imagine I got back into the 70s... The work required to get there (fitness) and the huge drop in weight has to equal something pretty handy. I think over the next 3-4 months I'm going to roll into about  8hrs a week on the bike to help the weight fall off some more. I don't believe in crazy dieting neither does my mental state. I expect to be back in the 70s some time next year 😮

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Not being cheeky when I say -   it would be amazing  to know with confidence that dropping those kg's would get the times youre talking about.

Exciting few months ahead Willie 😊

Edited by Surfer
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I hope you keep us updated on your progress Willie.

just interested in how you plan to drop 20kgs with no crazy diet??

i personally don't drop weight from cycling so was wondering what your secret was!

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19 minutes ago, Clyde said:

I personally don't drop weight from cycling so was wondering what your secret was!

Will keep the masses updated

The secret is added load. If I run 100kms a week and do 8 on the bike (which might be commuting) then it all adds up. I swim or kayak at least once a week now too. Just added cardio, a bit more load that's not running

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At this rate you will be back to 120kegs in 3 months. If you honestly think you can go from fat to fit running 100km a week you have learned nothing from your history of injuries and failed starts. 

And I say this in the nicest possible way but without sugar coating it for you either. 

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On 03/05/2019 at 11:34 AM, Peter said:

I'm sure Ruley once posted something that it's like 7 seconds per kg down to a certain weight.  Could be wrong

^^^  This.

At least in my experience.  I had Ruley coaching me for IMNZ2012 and this was about what I experienced going from 115kg-ish to 95kgs.

He had me running 2km efforts at the track twice a week and got me holding 4.05 p/km x 8-12 efforts.  For anyone that knows me, this is amazing!!!  😀

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1 hour ago, Rog said:

At this rate you will be back to 120kegs in 3 months. If you honestly think you can go from fat to fit running 100km a week you have learned nothing from your history of injuries and failed starts. 

In the last 6 months I've lost 15kgs or so. So I'm going to say your quite wrong. All I've done is start running and almost stop alcohol consumption. A lot has changed in the last 6months for the better. 

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Willie, how long ago were you running 15.xx for 5kms. Surely age has to factor in this somewhere?

I'm no expert, don't even live in the same postcode as an expert.  However, my experience of concentrating on endurance running, ( which for me is 75-90km p/w week at peak) is that it can really take away from your top end.  My fastest 5km this year was a 21.08, my targeted 10km race was 43.40 , 70secs slower than last year and my HM was 1:38 this year.

The endurance has hit my top end, especially when it comes to TT on the bike.  Endurance/speed is a hard mix to get right IME.  

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I managed a 23:32 5km at lunch time today & that hurt enough!!!!!!!!

The project I'm on all go for a 5km run at lunch 3 times a week. It's getting a bit competive, the young punks are trying to take this old man down.

 

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1 hour ago, FatPom said:

Willie, how long ago were you running 15.xx for 5kms. Surely age has to factor in this somewhere?

I'm no expert, don't even live in the same postcode as an expert.  However, my experience of concentrating on endurance running, ( which for me is 75-90km p/w week at peak) is that it can really take away from your top end.  My fastest 5km this year was a 21.08, my targeted 10km race was 43.40 , 70secs slower than last year and my HM was 1:38 this year.

The endurance has hit my top end, especially when it comes to TT on the bike.  Endurance/speed is a hard mix to get right IME.  

Even though focus is on endurance you still need to do speed work.  And by speed work I mean short bursts of 20-30secs with long recovery to keep the fast twitch fibres you have stimulated.   

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17 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Even though focus is on endurance you still need to do speed work.  And by speed work I mean short bursts of 20-30secs with long recovery to keep the fast twitch fibres you have stimulated.   

I haven't dropped my speed sessions at all. What I'm saying is the increase in volume has hit my top end.

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2 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Even though focus is on endurance you still need to do speed work.  And by speed work I mean short bursts of 20-30secs with long recovery to keep the fast twitch fibres you have stimulated.   

Bingo. I'll quite often do a session that is 30min easy with drills at the end as warm up then 2 X 50m, 2 X 100, 2 X 150, 2 X 100 and 2 X 50 with walk back recovery (or 30, 60 than 90 secs rest). Then another 15-20mins easy cool down. Only 900m at 100% but it's enough.

Not enough people trying to run fast, actually run fast. 

1 hour ago, FatPom said:

Willie, how long ago were you running 15.xx for 5kms. Surely age has to factor in this somewhere?

The endurance has hit my top end, especially when it comes to TT on the bike.  Endurance/speed is a hard mix to get right IME.  

I'm only 32! Still got a good few years. How old do you think I am? 

I'm lucky that speed comes naturally to me, my body just doesn't like long stuff. I won't ever seriously have a crack at anything longer than a half mara ever again. 

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1 hour ago, willie said:

 

I'm only 32! Still got a good few years. How old do you think I am? 

 

Thought u were in my age group

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45 minutes ago, willie said:

Bingo. I'll quite often do a session that is 30min easy with drills at the end as warm up then 2 X 50m, 2 X 100, 2 X 150, 2 X 100 and 2 X 50 with walk back recovery (or 30, 60 than 90 secs rest). Then another 15-20mins easy cool down. Only 900m at 100% but it's enough.

Not enough people trying to run fast, actually run fast. 

I'm only 32! Still got a good few years. How old do you think I am? 

I'm lucky that speed comes naturally to me, my body just doesn't like long stuff. I won't ever seriously have a crack at anything longer than a half mara ever again. 

Well I didn't know. My point was,  depending on how long ago it was, being able to do it once and being able to do it now gets a whole lot harder once we get older  (unfortunately :( ).

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1 hour ago, Bored@work said:

Thought u were in my age group

:wheelchair: not quite 

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Geez Willie, sounds like you’ve come a long way since our ‘aerobic’ run around Narrabeen Lake where 4.45min/km pace had your heat rate at 185bpm 😂

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40 minutes ago, Hoffy86 said:

Geez Willie, sounds like you’ve come a long way since our ‘aerobic’ run around Narrabeen Lake where 4.45min/km pace had your heat rate at 185bpm 😂

I wouldn't be choking on a lung these days! :Lol:

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This is what I look like now. Both of these were taken in the last 6 weeks. Almost got back fat rolls. Sorry to all those at the last Hills Tri Club race :sick: :sick: :sick:

received_10157970037807228.jpg

IMG_20190329_192314__01.jpg

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On 03/05/2019 at 12:00 PM, willie said:

Going from 21 to 15 is big, but not if you've run low 15 before... If it was someone that came to me for coaching that had never run that pace before I'd say no, not possible. I've been there and done it. I reckon I can definitely get back to 15.xx, the low 15.xx is another story.

Hey Willie, how old are you now, and how long ago did you run low 15?

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7 hours ago, DiaboloACT said:

Hey Willie, how old are you now, and how long ago did you run low 15?

Ah I'm 32 and that was 12 years ago. Am I worried? Nope. All the testing I've done indicates I still have the ability. It all rests on my ability to not look like the above ;)

I'll start posting my weekly workouts etc and diarise a lot of it for everyone. Maybe once a week starting Sunday. 

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Will be interesting to follow your progress and the workouts to get the speed back. I've dropped from 104kg to 80kg over the last 12+ months and have gone from 1:30 for 9k walk/run to 45mins. Not a lot of speed work in that training so hoping to get my Park run time down to sub 20 (fastest now is 22:21). Drop a few more kilos and some speed work I should make it. At age 54, still plenty of fast runners in the older age groups so happy its achievable for me.

Your already doing 20:ss for 98kg, that's motoring at that weight, so thinking your target of 15's is certainly doable as more kg's come off and training builds.

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