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Israel Folau

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23 hours ago, more said:

yet I doubt you would be able to talk the same way of Jews for example. 

... 

 

You can over here, especially if you are the leader of the party that preaches 'tolerance and diversity'

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39 minutes ago, goughy said:

In the end, they're a US company (aren't they)?  He can fight for his religious freedom with them too if he wants.  I just find it hard for someone to say it's not about the money, but standing up for their rights, but aren't willing to put their money were their mouth is. 

Shouldn't this bit be in the politics thread in relation to all the climate changers that thinks it's real but wont put there house on it ;) 

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1 hour ago, goughy said:

I can't believe there hasn't been a firm willing to go pro-bono for him yet. 

That's because he's not going to win.

He is citing religious freedom. The ARU are citing 'code of conduct". Whether he has anything in writing or not and whether he signed something or not doesn't matter.

The ARU will prove they had the discussion and provided the appropriate guidance etc etc

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1 hour ago, roxii said:

Yeah, my thought is he could have waited till it hit 3 mill, or whatever he lost on his contract, pocketed it and walked away no worse off. 

Love his interpretation of "doing gods work", Im sure if there is a God he is really proud of him.   (pink font for sarcasm) 

The things is though that this is being blown right out of proportion. He thinks homosexuality is a sin, as does he alcoholics, adulterers etc. He isn't saying he hates them, he is saying they have sinned and should repent.

We all agree that its a bit cookoo but it is in no way hate speech. 

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2 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

 

That's because he's not going to win.

He is citing religious freedom. The ARU are citing 'code of conduct". Whether he has anything in writing or not and whether he signed something or not doesn't matter.

The ARU will prove they had the discussion and provided the appropriate guidance etc etc

This:

He is an employee of Rugby who like nearly every employer in the world have code of conduct and social media policy that is clear. 

His claim is that employers should not be able to constraint the speech and social presence of an individual. Locke touched on this in the 1600 s

"He argued that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society."

Go Fund me are free to implement the terms and conditions of use on their platform, just like Transitons is. Now If Israel Folau is going to take on the right of the individual to say freely about anything without boundaries that is interesting. I'll let Andrew and the legal types advise but:

To win on the basis of free speech he would have to get a court to agree that codes of conduct as they apply to an individual speaking in the public domain are not applicable as they written and applied today

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Crazy Tiger cracks me up about owning a New Zealander, however  Jed Bartlett beat all of us to the punch.

 

Edited by Parkside
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11 hours ago, Parkside said:

Crazy Tiger cracks me up about owning a New Zealander, however  Jed Bartlett beat all of us to the punch.

 

Greatest show ever! Aaron Sorkin is a genius.

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The bit that keeps bugging me about all this and why I have no sympathy for Izzy, is that if you are going to devote your life to God and follow the bible, fine. 

However they continually preach to followers and those they try and bring to the flock, that their god is a god of love  and peace etc and love, peace and forgiveness is mentioned hundreds of times in the bible, yet these nutters go straight for the bit that enables them to hate. 

Whats with that?? 

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8 minutes ago, roxii said:

The bit that keeps bugging me about all this and why I have no sympathy for Izzy, is that if you are going to devote your life to God and follow the bible, fine. 

However they continually preach to followers and those they try and bring to the flock, that their god is a god of love  and peace etc and love, peace and forgiveness is mentioned hundreds of times in the bible, yet these nutters go straight for the bit that enables them to hate. 

Whats with that?? 

But wheres the hate? I honestly don't believe he is hating anybody. I'm sure he has mates who for example drink and he would most likely be saying to them (as he did in his tweet) that they are sinners. I doubt he would feel that he hates his mates.

Its a big stretch from saying someone is a sinner to saying you hate someone.

All these hard line religious groups have this view they are 'saving' everyone from 'hell'. In their mind I think they are actually doing it out of a distorted sense of love, not hate? 

Edited by more

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Well they certainly skip past the bit about "let he who is without sin...." 

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I didn't think the bible was a "choose your own adventure" book

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I would agree that he is actually doing this from a place of love and caring!  BUT, he seriously needs to change the way he posts or addressees people, because the way that meme reads, it doesn't sound like it comes from a place of love and caring!  Maybe he's not smart enough to know better.  A few little changes and this whole thing would have been a non event.

Listening to the Martin guy from some Catholic group (was it the ACL), he's been asked if homosexuals go to hell, and he said no.  But he also said every single one of us are sinners.  I see they are only donating $100k to his cause.  Cheapskates!

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I agree the bible is a complete and utter cluster f^ck. But all that aside I'm struggling to see any 'hate'?

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11 minutes ago, roxii said:

I didn't think the bible was a "choose your own adventure" book

It has been for ages.  Whenever something like this comes up, they bring out other passages from the Bible and rebut with the, if you take that literally then why not this?  And they always give you the, well you don't take it literally, or explain it with a different interpretation.  It's always been a case of take from it what you want and discard the rest.

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4 minutes ago, more said:

I agree the bible is a complete and utter cluster f^ck. But all that aside I'm struggling to see any 'hate'?

My first para in the post above yours explains that!  He needs a combination of English lessons, plus better direction at how to portray his compassion.  He ****ed up.  And obviously more than once otherwise he wouldn't be in this predicament.

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17 minutes ago, more said:

But wheres the hate? I honestly don't believe he is hating anybody. I'm sure he has mates who for example drink and he would most likely be saying to them (as he did in his tweet) that they are sinners. I doubt he would feel that he hates his mates.

Its a big stretch from saying someone is a sinner to saying you hate someone.

All these hard line religious groups have this view they are 'saving' everyone from 'hell'. In their mind I think they are actually doing it out of a distorted sense of love, not hate? 

I get that in Izzys case, I was more generalising.  A few of those abortion centre protesters don't seem to be full of the lords love. 

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Israel turned down an offer to speak freely about this with news radio.

bit odd that a person championing free speech turns down an opportunity 

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27 minutes ago, goughy said:

My first para in the post above yours explains that!  He needs a combination of English lessons, plus better direction at how to portray his compassion.  He ****ed up.  And obviously more than once otherwise he wouldn't be in this predicament.

I was replying to roxxiis comment

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Sorry  :)

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1 hour ago, roxii said:

The bit that keeps bugging me about all this and why I have no sympathy for Izzy, is that if you are going to devote your life to God and follow the bible, fine. 

However they continually preach to followers and those they try and bring to the flock, that their god is a god of love  and peace etc and love, peace and forgiveness is mentioned hundreds of times in the bible, yet these nutters go straight for the bit that enables them to hate. 

Whats with that?? 

It's simply the hypocrisy of religion. The all loving god will send you to hell and condemn you to an eternity of suffering etc.

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39 minutes ago, trinube said:

It's simply the hypocrisy of religion. The all loving god will send you to hell and condemn you to an eternity of suffering etc.

Religion is crazy! Have you watched college/highschool sports in the US where the priest blesses them before a game and prays that they win etc

Yeah right, so God has time to get some football team over the line because they prayed but he is to busy to help some poor kid with cancer... 

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1 minute ago, more said:

Religion is crazy! Have you watched college/highschool sports in the US where the priest blesses them before a game and prays that they win etc

Yeah right, so God has time to get some football team over the line because they prayed but he is to busy to help some poor kid with cancer... 

I think you are preaching to the converted.

anyway lets see how this one goes.

https://www.acl.org.au/donate_izzy

 

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16 minutes ago, more said:

Religion is crazy! Have you watched college/highschool sports in the US where the priest blesses them before a game and prays that they win etc

Yeah right, so God has time to get some football team over the line because they prayed but he is to busy to help some poor kid with cancer... 

And why does god choose one team over the other?? 

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23 minutes ago, roxii said:

And why does god choose one team over the other?? 

Whoever prays the hardest?

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10 minutes ago, more said:

Whoever prays the hardest?

NFL-National-Anthem-Protest.jpg

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6 hours ago, roxii said:

The bit that keeps bugging me about all this and why I have no sympathy for Izzy, is that if you are going to devote your life to God and follow the bible, fine. 

However they continually preach to followers and those they try and bring to the flock, that their god is a god of love  and peace etc and love, peace and forgiveness is mentioned hundreds of times in the bible, yet these nutters go straight for the bit that enables them to hate. 

Whats with that?? 

I agree completely but that's hardly exclusive to Christianity.

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God can create a try for Izzy but I wonder how God will act if one of his family was to get an illness like cancer. 

 

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20 hours ago, Peter said:

I think you are preaching to the converted.

anyway lets see how this one goes.

https://www.acl.org.au/donate_izzy

 

 

18 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/1000-a-minute-folau-gets-back-more-than-600-000-20190625-p5210t.html

can’t keep a good man down.

noting the legal experts view that the 3 mill is not required is there any decptive behaviour happening

Guessing you either have me on block or can’t read. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

Guessing you either have me on block or can’t read. 

 

Eh? Not on block confused 

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so i see Magda Szubanski has also jumped on the bandwagon with a GoFundMe page. "For Love'   In my Opinion she has now made it a two sided argument, when i don't believe it ever was. 

Edited by Prince

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While I notice that Izzy and “religion” seem to be copping the wrath of most contributors here, I have to say that 100% of the 20+ people of strong faith I either know well or work with are strongly against Izzy’s instragram post and condemn his use of hate speech.

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41 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

While I notice that Izzy and “religion” seem to be copping the wrath of most contributors here, I have to say that 100% of the 20+ people of strong faith I either know well or work with are strongly against Izzy’s instragram post and condemn his use of hate speech.

Thats my experience too. Mostly old people from my dads old church. 

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I wonder whether the strongest opinions are held by

a) the oldest, conservative members of traditional churches like Roman Catholics and Anglicans and

b) the least traditional churches where recruitment = $$ for the pastor

and also wonder whether the silent majority of church goers wished the villification of homosexuality would stop, many of these people would have voted for gay marriage in the non-binding plebiscite I imagine.

I also wonder what Folau's wife has started with her public support on social media. I wonder what her gay team-mates, coaches and opponents think of her opinion. An issue her husband doesn't have to deal with as overtly, if he even considered it.

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with a bit of luck some of the 'old opinions' and beliefs may even change for the better. 

Edited by Prince

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He seems to be still raking in the money from I don’t know who.

As the saying says......A fool and his Mooney are soon parted.

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1 hour ago, IronmanFoz said:

He seems to be still raking in the money from I don’t know who.

As the saying says......A fool and his Mooney are soon parted.

Might be a bit of the 'I don't agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it' 

The gay lobby are a pack of bullies, now they are trying to destroy the guys wife's career. 

 

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55 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

He seems to be still raking in the money from I don’t know who.

As the saying says......A fool and his Mooney are soon parted.

I think I read last night that at that stage about 7000 people had donated to him.  So I broke things down a little bit earlier today for myself.

There's about 17mill Aussies over the age of 25, so we'll take only those.  Then cut out say 25% of those to cover say people with dementia, much older age who may not be following etc.  So say 13mill.  Then assume every one of this 13mill are coupled up, so one donation is really from 2 people, so let's make it 6.5mill people, who would theoretically make a donation to him.  Then half it again, assuming only Christians will contribute, and at the last census about 50% of Australians identified as such.

And just because the campaign is still going, let's triple the number of contributers.  We end up with 0.0065% of Australians who might donate to him doing so.  Definitely overwhelming support!

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3 minutes ago, goughy said:

I think I read last night that at that stage about 7000 people had donated to him.  So I broke things down a little bit earlier today for myself.

There's about 17mill Aussies over the age of 25, so we'll take only those.  Then cut out say 25% of those to cover say people with dementia, much older age who may not be following etc.  So say 13mill.  Then assume every one of this 13mill are coupled up, so one donation is really from 2 people, so let's make it 6.5mill people, who would theoretically make a donation to him.  Then half it again, assuming only Christians will contribute, and at the last census about 50% of Australians identified as such.

And just because the campaign is still going, let's triple the number of contributers.  We end up with 0.0065% of Australians who might donate to him doing so.  Definitely overwhelming support!

Go for a walk! :lol:

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3 hours ago, Prince said:

with a bit of luck some of the 'old opinions' and beliefs may even change for the better. 

I think those beliefs will be taken with them when they go to meet their maker.

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10 hours ago, more said:

Might be a bit of the 'I don't agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it' 

The gay lobby are a pack of bullies, now they are trying to destroy the guys wife's career. 

 

who are the gay lobby?

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37 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

who are the gay lobby?

Those who not only seek to publicly shame anyone who says anything remotely anti homosexual but also seek to destroy their careers and hurt them financially. 

 

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The crux of the matter is this-we should be free to write things that people choose to be hurt or offended by. 

Otherwise where do you draw the line? If for example the Qantas CEO was a Christian and Falou posted something insulting/hurtful about the church would he be justified in pressuring the Wallabies to sack him? 

 

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10 hours ago, more said:

Might be a bit of the 'I don't agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it' 

That used to be a commonly held principle 

Now the left say 'if you don't agree with me, you're an evil bigot so shut up

And by the way, stop generating hate...' 

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15 minutes ago, more said:

Those who not only seek to publicly shame anyone who says anything remotely anti homosexual but also seek to destroy their careers and hurt them financially. 

 

So they are an organised group?

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