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Israel Folau

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3 minutes ago, trinube said:

You can do whatever you want, but if you never read them you can't take offence. If a tree falls in the forest...

More the point I was making, if someone posts against aboriginal, Africans, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Catholics, Americans and Eskimos is it right to just be offended for the Catholics?

 

4 minutes ago, trinube said:

You can do whatever you want, but if you never read them you can't take offence. If a tree falls in the forest...

More the point I was making, if someone posts against aboriginal, Africans, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Catholics, Americans and Eskimos is it right to just be offended for the Catholics?

So it is okay to vilify someone for the ethnicity or sexuality, drunkendess and the victim is expected to accept it and just not take offence.

I think we moved on from being able to hate freely and making it the victims fault. of course the KKK as pointed out above also sought protection for their religious freedoms.

The level of ignorance, self interest and entitlement in Australia today is stunning.

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9 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

So it is okay to vilify someone for the ethnicity or sexuality, drunkendess and the victim is expected to accept it and just not take offence.

It's up to the individual if they take offence. I chose not to take offence at what Folau said even though it was directed at me. If you choose to take offence then that's your right.

You, like many, are mistaking this for hate speech. As I said pages back, this is a person repeating what HE believes the BIBLE SAYS are the CONSEQUENCES of people's actions. Show me where he said he hates anyone? If this is hate speech, it's the Bible that's responsible.

If he said "Kill all Thieves" or "Behead all Infidels" it would be a different issue.

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27 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

scenario, some one posts against aboriginals or African's should we just ignore that

Well there has been plenty of vile posts against Christianity on Transitions, people seem OK to ignore that. Seems that there are certain groups that are a free for all, yet I doubt you would be able to talk the same way of Jews for example. 

Same as it is now in vogue to attack and vilify 'middle aged white men' but to single out blacks in the same way would clearly be racist. 

Strange times... 

 

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1 hour ago, trinube said:

It's up to the individual if they take offence. I chose not to take offence at what Folau said even though it was directed at me. If you choose to take offence then that's your right.

You, like many, are mistaking this for hate speech. As I said pages back, this is a person repeating what HE believes the BIBLE SAYS are the CONSEQUENCES of people's actions. Show me where he said he hates anyone? If this is hate speech, it's the Bible that's responsible.

If he said "Kill all Thieves" or "Behead all Infidels" it would be a different issue.

I said it was a breach of contract. On the assumption it’s part of his code of conduct and contract.

he is free to speak and free to be sacked for breaching his contract.

He is not in 18c territory.

my view is he is hiding behind his religious freedom to preach bile selecting bits of the bible which suit his view.

 

Edited by BarryBevan
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1 hour ago, more said:

Well there has been plenty of vile posts against Christianity on Transitions, people seem OK to ignore that. Seems that there are certain groups that are a free for all, yet I doubt you would be able to talk the same way of Jews for example. 

Same as it is now in vogue to attack and vilify 'middle aged white men' but to single out blacks in the same way would clearly be racist. 

Strange times... 

 

thats true. some of the attacks against those of a religious view on here are pretty bad and definitely not warranted. It would make anyone who practices a faith feel extremely vilified. 

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I have always said religion is the root of all evils. 

Name something that is good due to religion? 

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3 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

Name something that is good due to religion? 

Trappist Beer

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7 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

I have always said religion is the root of all evils. 

Name something that is good due to religion? 

I think the number one thing is that it gives a lot of people, even those who don't necessarily frequent church, a heck of a lot of comfort in regards to death and terminal illness, then there are the numerous charitable organisations that have been founded from religion. 

Edited by Prince
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13 minutes ago, Prince said:

I think the number one thing is that it gives a lot of people, even those who don't necessarily frequent church, a heck of a lot of comfort in regards to death and terminal illness, then there are the numerous charitable organisations that have been founded from religion. 

Yes..... agree with the charitable initiatives.

I’ll apologise here.......there are a huge number of good people who do wonderful things. My thoughts were screwed by the more obvious negatives that come from religion like the radicals and the wars. And now Folau. I think it totally abhorrent that he is asking for money given the amount he has earns etc when young kids have illnesses who are getting zip! 

 

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1 hour ago, IronmanFoz said:

I have always said religion is the root of all evils. 

Name something that is good due to religion? 

Western civilisation 

I'm going back a couple of thousand years though, of course 

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1 hour ago, IronmanFoz said:

Yes..... agree with the charitable initiatives.

I’ll apologise here.......there are a huge number of good people who do wonderful things. My thoughts were screwed by the more obvious negatives that come from religion like the radicals and the wars. And now Folau. I think it totally abhorrent that he is asking for money given the amount he has earns etc when young kids have illnesses who are getting zip! 

 

I think it's even more abhorrent that we have state governments like Victoria's who happily threw away $1Billion of tax payers on absolutely nothing. I'd imagine $1B could have helped a sick child or two... That's where your disgust should be directed. 

Edited by more
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11 hours ago, more said:

I think it's even more abhorrent that we have state governments like Victoria's who happily threw away $1Billion of tax payers on absolutely nothing. I'd imagine $1B could have helped a sick child or two... That's where your disgust should be directed. 

What did they waste it on?

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48 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

What did they waste it on?

The Liberal party who were in power had undertaken a project to build a massive East West road link. Everything was agreed and contracted. The Labor government got in power and scrapped the whole project.

As a result they had to payout all the contracts effectively, costing the tax payer $1Billion dollars in returns for absolutely NOTHING. Just an absolute disgrace.

The government can willingly throw away $1B dollars, literally just throw it away, yet every year the Children's Hospital have to have a Good Friday appeal begging cap in hand to get money from the public, just upsets me a great deal as you can probably gather..

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-09/auditor-general-reports-on-east-west-link-costs/7012618

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On 23/06/2019 at 9:24 AM, trinube said:

i must say this really annoys me - people being 'quite deeply effected'.

 

If you get really annoyed because someone is quite deeply effected you really get the sh#ts if it pushes them to suicide 😔

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GoFundMe has shut down his campaign and will refund all money's, claiming his GoFundMe campaign breached it's terms of service.  The project last night did show GoFundMe's terms, and you could consider his fund raiser as breaching them, if you wanted to.  Maybe they consider the negative press as more significant than the positive press around it.  I think the terms had something to do with raising funds for legal cases surrounding hate speech, bigotry, and a few other things that they could consider a breech.

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23 minutes ago, goughy said:

GoFundMe has shut down his campaign and will refund all money's, claiming his GoFundMe campaign breached it's terms of service.  The project last night did show GoFundMe's terms, and you could consider his fund raiser as breaching them, if you wanted to.  Maybe they consider the negative press as more significant than the positive press around it.  I think the terms had something to do with raising funds for legal cases surrounding hate speech, bigotry, and a few other things that they could consider a breech.

Maybe GoFundMe should have just kept the money and given it to more deserving people. Starting with kids with illnesses.

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27 minutes ago, goughy said:

GoFundMe has shut down his campaign and will refund all money's, claiming his GoFundMe campaign breached it's terms of service.  The project last night did show GoFundMe's terms, and you could consider his fund raiser as breaching them, if you wanted to.  Maybe they consider the negative press as more significant than the positive press around it.  I think the terms had something to do with raising funds for legal cases surrounding hate speech, bigotry, and a few other things that they could consider a breech.

He will probably request donations to fight GoFundMe too!!

Edited by IronmanFoz
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I just noticed a Change.org petition to pull the Go-Fund-Me page. Looks like they are too late.

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That started a day or so ago.

I actually wouldn't have been surprised if the GoFundMe was originally set up for his own parishioners etc to funnel money to him, granted I don't know if there was any reason as such to do it?  

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8 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I just noticed a Change.org petition to pull the Go-Fund-Me page. Looks like they are too late.

**** people are petty. If he wants to ask for money and people want to give it to him then what's the problem? 

I can't believe people have the time to protest how people spend their own money. 

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1 hour ago, goughy said:

  I think the terms had something to do with raising funds for legal cases surrounding hate speech, bigotry, and a few other things that they could consider a breech.

If that’s the reason they have pulled it then they are really buying into the whole thing and taking a view at odds with many and it will only anger his supporters further as the crux of his legal case and of his supporters is that what he wrote shouldn’t be considered as ‘hate speech ‘ nor bigotry. Even though I don’t like what he wrote he is entitled to his opinion as it’s nothing more than a view of a common belief of many christians.  

I don’t like him fundraising when it appears he has the funds but he is entitled to do it. 

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2 hours ago, Mike Del said:

If you get really annoyed because someone is quite deeply effected you really get the sh#ts if it pushes them to suicide 😔

If you actually read the rest of my post rather than selectively quoting you'd see my entire point was why NOBODY should be deeply effected.

If people want to stop people being 'deeply effected' by what's in the Bible it's fairly obvious what needs to be done. Trouble is no-one is willing to stop people preaching the Bible.

You people are so intent on crucifying the messenger you ignore the root cause which is a little black book. If people didn't believe everything the Bible tells them there wouldn't be an issue.

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4 minutes ago, Prince said:

If that’s the reason they have pulled it then they are really buying into the whole thing and taking a view at odds with many and it will only anger his supporters further as the crux of his legal case and of his supporters is that what he wrote shouldn’t be considered as ‘hate speech ‘ nor bigotry. Even though I don’t like what he wrote he is entitled to his opinion as it’s nothing more than a view of a common belief of many christians.  

I don’t like him fundraising when it appears he has the funds but he is entitled to do it. 

Exactly. So now not only are people being controlled on what they say but also how they spend their money.

Sh!t I'm sure spending $4k on a Zipp Super 9 would be seen by most as crazy and could be better spent on a poor sick child but who in the hell has the right to tell you that you shouldn't BECAUSE there are more deserving ways to spend your money???

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9 minutes ago, Prince said:

Even though I don’t like what he wrote he is entitled to his opinion as it’s nothing more than a view of a common belief of many christians.  

I don’t like him fundraising when it appears he has the funds but he is entitled to do it. 

Precisely. What he said would be preached in church every Sunday but where's the outcry over that. His biggest crime is doing it wearing a Wallaby jersey. The breach of contract thing is still muddy waters as it's still not entirely clear if the social-media clauses were in his contract when he signed or added afterwards.

The guys a flog, but even flogs have a right to say what they think. As I said above, if they want to fix the problem ban the Bible - that's where this all originates.

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Of course he has the right to fund raise if he wants.  He can stand on a street corner with a can.  He can sell girl guide cookies.  He chose to use a fund raising company, and that company obviously doesn't want to have a part of it.  That's their choice too.

With regards to his employment contract, that will all come out in the wash that is the fair work Commission, and the ongoing appeals after that.  I'm guessing only a handful of people actually know what his contract specifically entails and what has been said to him in the past regarding his social media presence.  So far, pretty much every one of us is speculating.  The courts will decide.

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Just now, goughy said:

Of course he has the right to fund raise if he wants.  He can stand on a street corner with a can.  He can sell girl guide cookies.  He chose to use a fund raising company, and that company obviously doesn't want to have a part of it.  That's their choice too.

But the point is Goughy they are guilty of the same thing as him. So not treating all as fair and equal.  

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Who are you talking about, you haven't specified who the they is?

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3 minutes ago, Prince said:

But the point is Goughy they are guilty of the same thing as him. So not treating all as fair and equal.  

Actually opens another can of worms-are they not discriminating against him because of his religious beliefs?

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7 minutes ago, goughy said:

Who are you talking about, you haven't specified who the they is?

They = the people that removed the fund raising page. I don’t know their names. Mr Go and Mr Fundme perhaps. 

And Goughy. Remember that we are just having a discussion here.  I have my views as you do so utmost respect for you. 

Edited by Prince
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I think this is the section in their terms which deals with his fundraiser.

"Without limiting the foregoing, you agree not to use the Services to:

raise funds or establish or contribute to any Campaign with the implicit or explicit purpose of or involving:

8. campaigns we deem, at our sole discretion, to be in support of, or for the legal defence of alleged crimes associated with hate, violence, harassment, bullying, discrimination, terrorism or intolerance of any kind relating to race, ethnicity, national origin, religious affiliation, sexual orientation, sex, gender or gender identity or serious disabilities or diseases;"

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7 minutes ago, Prince said:

They = the people that removed the fund raising page. I don’t know their names. Mr Go and Mr Fundme perhaps. 

And Goughy. Remember that we are just having a discussion here.  I have my views as you do so utmost respect for you. 

I should have assumed that's who you meant.  I just said to my wife that people will now say they are breaking their own terms by showing religious bias against him.

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3 minutes ago, goughy said:

I think this is the section in their terms which deals with his fundraiser.

"Without limiting the foregoing, you agree not to use the Services to:

raise funds or establish or contribute to any Campaign with the implicit or explicit purpose of or involving:

8. campaigns we deem, at our sole discretion, to be in support of, or for the legal defence of alleged crimes associated with hate, violence, harassment, bullying, discrimination, terrorism or intolerance of any kind relating to race, ethnicity, national origin, religious affiliation, sexual orientation, sex, gender or gender identity or serious disabilities or diseases;"

I think they have it covered in the way they've worded it. "Intolerance of any kind".

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53 minutes ago, more said:

Exactly. So now not only are people being controlled on what they say but also how they spend their money.

Sh!t I'm sure spending $4k on a Zipp Super 9 would be seen by most as crazy and could be better spent on a poor sick child but who in the hell has the right to tell you that you shouldn't BECAUSE there are more deserving ways to spend your money???

So what I'm reading from this is you just got a zipp 9 disc.  

Can I borrow it? I gave all my money to a sick kid. :) 

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9 minutes ago, Peter said:

So what I'm reading from this is you just got a zipp 9 disc.  

Can I borrow it? I gave all my money to a sick kid. :) 

lol ur a funny bastard! I wish....:whistling:

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19 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I think they have it covered in the way they've worded it. "Intolerance of any kind".

But he hasn't committed a crime. Their words are crimes associated with " "

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I don't know if I sit in a funny place with all this, with my beliefs in all this.

Do I like what he said - no, it sucked ass big time!

Do I think he had the right to say it - yes, he can if he wants to.  If their are consequences to it, that's for him to deal with.

Do I think it should have cost him his job - that is completely up to his employer!  If it is covered in his contact, if they've discussed this with him before, then it's completely their decision.  At the moment pretty much all of us can only assume what was exactly in his contact and what has been discussed with him.  There is a place where that will be decided upon, and it's not on the internet.

Do I think he can say that stuff in church - if his Minister is happy for him to do so, then yes.  Within the confines of his church he has that freedom and should not be reported or recorded what he says!  If his congregation or Minister are not happy with what he says they will let him know.

Do I think he should have tried raising money for his legal fight - that's up to him.  He can if he wants to.  Sure, I don't like a rich person begging for money, but he isn't the first and won't be the last.  

Do I think GoFundMe should have cancelled his campaign - I'm happy they did.  Whether to do so is up to them though, and they felt it crossed a line.  Maybe the line that was crossed was the line where the bad publicity was outweighing the good publicity.  But it's their choice.  He can take them to court as well if he wants to.

Am I a fan of church; well yes and no.  Any and every church has and can do great good, but great evil as well.  For every cardinal Pell there is a father bob, one doesn't outweigh the other, they just coexist.  I grew up in the church and at Catholic schools.  If you ask me if I am an atheist, well I can't truly answer that!  And it can be a source of confusion for me, especially with my mindset these days.  If their is a god, the one many believe in, I think he may be a sick ****.  And that doesn't help me at all.  But while I may think Falou is allowed his beliefs, it doesn't mean I don't think his beliefs can be damaging to others.  It was mentioned earlier that his many fans on insta could be coming through the private school system where rugby is still played.  Those schools that I went to where a brother or a nun could hit you with a strap or cane, and in some cases heaven help you if you were gay.

I speak from the heart on here, and everywhere.  I don't mince my words and I feel I show everyone respect.  You won't get a truer response from me than that, feel free to pull me apart.  

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5 minutes ago, more said:

But he hasn't committed a crime. Their words are crimes associated with " "

The words are "alleged crimes". I suppose it's a broad coverage, as why would you need legal defence if there was no crime.

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49 minutes ago, Peter said:

So what I'm reading from this is you just got a zipp 9 disc.  

Can I borrow it? I gave all my money to a sick kid. :) 

 

37 minutes ago, more said:

lol ur a funny bastard! I wish....:whistling:

You should buy one.  It will help you heaps. 

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3 hours ago, goughy said:

GoFundMe has shut down his campaign and will refund all money's, claiming his GoFundMe campaign breached it's terms of service. 

Gofundme.com just thru away a lot of money in commission.

USD$3,000,000 would earn them at 3% is 90K (I think).

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The internet sure is blowing up about the removal of the fund me page being removed.  Opinions on both sides.  I assume they would also have to remove the page that was set up to fundraise against the falou fundraise page.  

 

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18 minutes ago, Peter said:

Gofundme.com just thru away a lot of money in commission.

USD$3,000,000 would earn them at 3% is 90K (I think).

It's easy for me to say this when I have no money, but not everything's about money.

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3 minutes ago, goughy said:

It's easy for me to say this when I have no money, but not everything's about money.

Silverchair in there song Tomorrow.

You say that money isn't everything
But I'd like to see you live without it,

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1 hour ago, goughy said:

I think this is the section in their terms which deals with his fundraiser.

"Without limiting the foregoing, you agree not to use the Services to:

raise funds or establish or contribute to any Campaign with the implicit or explicit purpose of or involving:

8. campaigns we deem, at our sole discretion, to be in support of, or for the legal defence of alleged crimes associated with hate, violence, harassment, bullying, discrimination, terrorism or intolerance of any kind relating to race, ethnicity, national origin, religious affiliation, sexual orientation, sex, gender or gender identity or serious disabilities or diseases;"

TripleM reported this morning that he had a 'disclaimer' on his fund raising page which said something like "There is no guarantee funds will be used for legal defence". They speculated it was to circumvent the rules outlined above.

In theory he could have just walked off with the money and never gone to court. He really is a low human.

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In the end, they're a US company (aren't they)?  He can fight for his religious freedom with them too if he wants.  I just find it hard for someone to say it's not about the money, but standing up for their rights, but aren't willing to put their money were their mouth is.  I would think when someone does that, they don't think they're gonna win so don't wanna cost themselves anything.  If you were absolutely, completely sure you were in the right, you'd back yourself!

I can't believe there hasn't been a firm willing to go pro-bono for him yet.

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10 minutes ago, trinube said:

TripleM reported this morning that he had a 'disclaimer' on his fund raising page which said something like "There is no guarantee funds will be used for legal defence". They speculated it was to circumvent the rules outlined above.

In theory he could have just walked off with the money and never gone to court. He really is a low human.

Yeah, my thought is he could have waited till it hit 3 mill, or whatever he lost on his contract, pocketed it and walked away no worse off. 

Love his interpretation of "doing gods work", Im sure if there is a God he is really proud of him.   (pink font for sarcasm) 

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