Israel Folau

[nealo 1,557]

9 minutes ago, more said:

They couldn't-they had a gay CEO threatening to pull sponsorship. And I guess that's what it all comes down to-a person of significant power and influence has a personal interest in this and has flexed his muscle...

Bullshit.

I wish people would stop down playing this. There has been a massive push for Gay rights and marriage equality and all that in society.

The ARU took that position, to support all.

Go to the ARU site https://australia.rugby/ and look at the tabs across the top. The sixth tab is dedicated to Diversity. You don't see that in many sports.

[more 345]

12 minutes ago, nealo said:

Bullshit.

I wish people would stop down playing this. There has been a massive push for Gay rights and marriage equality and all that in society.

The ARU took that position, to support all.

Go to the ARU site https://australia.rugby/ and look at the tabs across the top. The sixth tab is dedicated to Diversity. You don't see that in many sports.

Whats bullsh!t? Alan Joyce has admitted contacting RA and asking them what they were going to do about it. You don't need to read between the lines...

[BarryBevan 933]

On 27/06/2019 at 10:04 AM, Prince said:

with a lean to the left....

Of course. No one cares though as so few people run on the amazing facilities we have. Normally run outside lanes as the inside ones are all cut up from masters and little athletics.

[nealo 1,557]

34 minutes ago, more said:

Whats bullsh!t? Alan Joyce has admitted contacting RA and asking them what they were going to do about it. You don't need to read between the lines...

So you've got a the head of a company that is a major long term sponsor (maybe because of their beliefs and values) asking what are you going to do about a player laughing in the face of said beliefs and values?

If you're not going up hold your code of conduct why have it?

[Mike Del 219]

2 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

They certainly do seem to have a Labor-esque penchant for punching themselves square in the balls, don't they?

That’s about your 3rd attempt to politicise this along Labor, Coalition lines. 

 

 

 

Edited June 28 by Mike Del

[Mike Del 219]

1 hour ago, more said:

They couldn't-they had a gay CEO threatening to pull sponsorship. And I guess that's what it all comes down to-a person of significant power and influence has a personal interest in this and has flexed his muscle...

Crap, and you’re making your assumptions out to be facts again. If that was even possible Izzy’s legal team would have named Joyce or Qantas as a party in the upcoming proceedings guaranteed, and they didn’t.

 

The 2nd, 3rd & 4th questions at Joyce’s press conference to announce a new long distance flight routes to the US were about Izzy’s Insta post. Joyce and other major sponsors (are they gay too More?) said to RU what are you going to do to insulate us from this issue. Joyce said the exact same thing to Cricket Aus after the ball tampering incident in South Africa.

[more 345]

8 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

Crap, and you’re making your assumptions out to be facts again. If that was even possible Izzy’s legal team would have named Joyce or Qantas as a party in the upcoming proceedings guaranteed, and they didn’t.

 

The 2nd, 3rd & 4th questions at Joyce’s press conference to announce a new long distance flight routes to the US were about Izzy’s Insta post. Joyce and other major sponsors (are they gay too More?) said to RU what are you going to do to insulate us from this issue. Joyce said the exact same thing to Cricket Aus after the ball tampering incident in South Africa.

Settle down. I have been in many a board meeting where things can be conveyed very strongly without something being said directly. Why did Joyce then feel the need to contact them before action had been taken? 

[Prince 455]

 No surprise to me the conciliation today was unsuccessful with folou apparently walking out.  

On to the federal court now.  

[more 345]

1 hour ago, nealo said:

So you've got a the head of a company that is a major long term sponsor (maybe because of their beliefs and values) asking what are you going to do about a player laughing in the face of said beliefs and values?

If you're not going up hold your code of conduct why have it?

I would have thought there would be reasonable steps taken before termination-suspension and financial penalty perhaps? Dunno, maybe they already did this?

 

[Mike Del 219]

15 minutes ago, more said:

Settle down. I have been in many a board meeting where things can be conveyed very strongly without something being said directly. Why did Joyce then feel the need to contact them before action had been taken? 

Read my comment you just quoted 

Edited June 28 by Mike Del

[roxii 6,181]

7 minutes ago, Prince said:

 No surprise to me the conciliation today was unsuccessful with folou apparently walking out.  

On to the federal court now.  

Did he not read the bits about "turn the other cheek" , "forgive your enemy" etc etc. 

More selective bibleism in the name of the almighty dollar. 

[IronJimbo 901]

1 hour ago, Mike Del said:

That’s about your 3rd attempt to politicise this along Labor, Coalition lines. 

Quit your whining 

You sound like Sarah Hanson-Young... 

[more 345]

45 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

Crap, and you’re making your assumptions out to be facts again. If that was even possible Izzy’s legal team would have named Joyce or Qantas as a party in the upcoming proceedings guaranteed, and they didn’t.

 

 

Sounds like they considered it..

"The Sydney Morning Herald, citing sources familiar with Folau’s tactics, reports his team considered the drastic idea of adding Qantas as a defendant."

[IronJimbo 901]

Folau's contract was with RA though, not Qantas

[Stikman 1,702]

2 minutes ago, more said:

Sounds like they considered it..

"The Sydney Morning Herald, citing sources familiar with Folau’s tactics, reports his team considered the drastic idea of adding Qantas as a defendant."

And then promptly dropped the idea when they realised that Qantas would bring some serious financial resources to the defence, unlike RA.

[Prince 455]

26 minutes ago, more said:

I would have thought there would be reasonable steps taken before termination-suspension and financial penalty perhaps? Dunno, maybe they already did this?

 

sometimes, but as you say they may have issued him something previously.   I thought RA may have been at fault for not following the correct process as after only a day after his post, there were strong reports that RA had 'torn up his contract'. You have to give the respondent the opportunity to respond before you slit their throats. I have two employees on serious performance management issues at the moment and despite their Managers coming to me and saying 'i want them sacked' i won't be persuaded until i have given them ample opportunity to respond as well as time to improve. It isn't easy to sack someone...

[Peter 3,167]

42 minutes ago, Prince said:

 No surprise to me the conciliation today was unsuccessful with folou apparently walking out.  

On to the federal court now.  

At least it gives the journalists something to do without making up stuff like they usually do. 

[Mike Del 219]

59 minutes ago, more said:

Settle down. 

It’s all good, I’m bored sh#tless and need to lash out at something 

[more 345]

Maybe the real issue isnt Alan Joyce, but rather RA's CEO who looks like a satan worshiper lol

Yikes, teenage goth or Halloween 365..? 

 

 

[Prince 455]

36 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

It’s all good, I’m bored sh#tless and need to lash out at something 

Lash our at Ironjimbo   Everyone else does 😂

[IronJimbo 901]

1 minute ago, Prince said:

Lash our at Ironjimbo   Everyone else does 😂

It's nice to feel needed  😁

[IronmanFoz 1,240]

4 hours ago, more said:

They couldn't-they had a gay CEO threatening to pull sponsorship. And I guess that's what it all comes down to-a person of significant power and influence has a personal interest in this and has flexed his muscle...

This is the real world...... what CEO wouldn’t flex there muscle if they were offend by someone they essentially sponsor.

[IronmanFoz 1,240]

If I was Alan Joyce, I would have walked out on the Wallabies along time ago.

Why does Qantas even need to waste money on any sporting teams. It’s not a brand that needs to be pushed.

[IronmanFoz 1,240]

And if I was Alan Joyce, I would have demanded Rugby Australia to fix this problem.

[monkie 1,140]

4 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

If I was Alan Joyce, I would have walked out on the Wallabies along time ago.

Why does Qantas even need to waste money on any sporting teams. It’s not a brand that needs to be pushed.

Union is far more popular in Europe than it is over here (and Qantas is far less known) which is why it makes sense for them to be the jersey sponsor.

Edited June 28 by monkie

[BarryBevan 933]

Its a weekend

Edited June 28 by BarryBevan

[Tyno 2,112]

Just on the failed arbitration thing, which I'm sure both sides went into in good faith......

All I've seen on the news broadcasts is Falou talking going in and Falou talking coming out.

Did RA not make any statements/were they not asked any Q's by the dozens of folks there to shove cameras in Falou's face or do the news orgs just not report it?

[symo 79]

Quote

Cameron Clyne (born 21 March 1968)^[1] is an Australian businessman, who served as executive Director & Managing Director and Group CEO of the National Australia Bank Group, from 1 January 2009 until 2014. Cameron Clyne retired in August 2014, to be succeeded by Andrew Thorburn.^[2]

In December 2015 he was appointed as chairman of the Australian Rugby Union.^[3]

Ah the old boss - didn't do much good at the bank either

[IronmanFoz 1,240]

Interesting comments from Mr Clyne.

 

Folau had hoped RA would apologise for terminating his multimillion-dollar contract over a social media post in April condemned as homophobic.

“I’m not sure exactly what we’re apologising for, I don’t quite understand that request,” Clyne told Nine newspapers.

“We’ve provided a player with opportunities and asked him to adhere to a contract and a generous one at that. Israel was not sacked for his religion, he was sacked for a breach of his contract.”

[Mike Del 219]

Interesting letter to the Editor in The Age

[Prince 455]

On 29/06/2019 at 11:39 AM, IronmanFoz said:

 

“We’ve provided a player with opportunities and asked him to adhere to a contract and a generous one at that. Israel was not sacked for his religion, he was sacked for a breach of his contract.”

by those words, it seems pretty clear cut Legally.    Be interesting what his Lawyer will say. He could actually get a pretty good lawyer for the money he has, even if he has to bring in Erin....lol

[TenPints 885]

I liked this from David Marr in the Guardian: "...being decent and kind requires no legislation. You only need a religious freedom act to shelter behind when you plan to be nasty...if you are demanding rights for yourself which you won't extend to others, that's not freedom. It's privilege."

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jun/27/with-israel-folau-the-church-demands-a-kind-of-free-speech-that-keeps-gays-in-the-firing-line

[Parkside 1,087]

4 hours ago, Mike Del said:

Interesting letter to the Editor in The Age

‘ken oath Brian. 

[BarryBevan 933]

Looks like it will all get sorted later in the year i am the law 

[Peter 3,167]

I heard an interview (with a lawyer) on the radio last night that the total cost of his case wouldn't go above 300K so why he needs 3 million is beyond them.

 

[Parkside 1,087]

19 minutes ago, Peter said:

I heard an interview (with a lawyer) on the radio last night that the total cost of his case wouldn't go above 300K so why he needs 3 million is beyond them.

 

does that include photocopying? Lawyers talking down a bill? Is it April 1?

[IronmanFoz 1,240]

13 hours ago, Parkside said:

‘ken oath Brian. 

Again your mate Brian has go it wrong and has twisted the reason for his sacking. It was not due to religious freedom, It was to do with the RA code of Conduct. The whole debate is being twisted.

[Parkside 1,087]

48 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

Again your mate Brian has go it wrong and has twisted the reason for his sacking. It was not due to religious freedom, It was to do with the RA code of Conduct. The whole debate is being twisted.

I must be reading a different letter. Brian clearly points out Folau was sacked for contract violation, then says religious freedom is the reason Folau and Jones etc are claiming he was sacked. Yet religious freedom is Ok to sack people based on their sexuality in government funded schools etc. 

[goughy 3,470]

That's kinda what I thought too.

[IronmanFoz 1,240]

39 minutes ago, Parkside said:

I must be reading a different letter. Brian clearly points out Folau was sacked for contract violation, then says religious freedom is the reason Folau and Jones etc are claiming he was sacked. Yet religious freedom is Ok to sack people based on their sexuality in government funded schools etc. 

I will admit that snippet (news article) took me nearly 20 minutes to read due to interuptions. So...Yep.... You are 100% correct.

Apologies.

Edited July 2 by IronmanFoz

[Prince 455]

2 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Again your mate Brian has go it wrong and has twisted the reason for his sacking. It was not due to religious freedom, It was to do with the RA code of Conduct. The whole debate is being twisted.

but that is the debate. If Falou gets a good Lawyer i will not be surpassed if he wins the case. Surprised too. 😄

Edited July 2 by Prince

[Mike Del 219]

There was a panalist on Q&A last night ( I think they were a lawyer) said the legal fees for Izzy should max out at a couple of 100k max. She also said that because this case was brought before the Fair Work Commission as an unfair dismissal case, it will always remain an unfair dismissal case regardless if it ends up in the High Court of Aus or Appeals Court. Therefore regardless of the result it will never be a president in any free speech or religious freedom court case. If correct that makes the actions of the council of churches and all those donating $ even more unusual.

[Prince 455]

29 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

There was a panalist on Q&A last night ( I think they were a lawyer) said the legal fees for Izzy should max out at a couple of 100k max. She also said that because this case was brought before the Fair Work Commission as an unfair dismissal case, it will always remain an unfair dismissal case regardless if it ends up in the High Court of Aus or Appeals Court. Therefore regardless of the result it will never be a president in any free speech or religious freedom court case. If correct that makes the actions of the council of churches and all those donating $ even more unusual.

No. He is always entitled to also go civil.  

[Ex-Hasbeen 7,121]

3 hours ago, Peter said:

I heard an interview (with a lawyer) on the radio last night that the total cost of his case wouldn't go above 300K so why he needs 3 million is beyond them.

 

But then if he loses then appeals, or manages to get to the High Court, a couple of QCs would start draining that money real quick. He could also be up for Rugby Aus's costs.

And as a side note, if he is pushing for compensation for loss of earnings as a part of this, could RA also go him for their loss of earnings through potential sponsorship losses?

[Mike Del 219]

1 hour ago, Prince said:

No. He is always entitled to also go civil.  

No to what? Are you talking about his additional claim of civil penalties against RA? Because that's already lodged as part of his claim

Edited July 2 by Mike Del

[Prince 455]

15 hours ago, Mike Del said:

No to what? Are you talking about his additional claim of civil penalties against RA? Because that's already lodged as part of his claim

i don't take much credence from anyone on Q&A sorry.  Also, even though it is an unfair dismissal case, it will still have ramifications for freedom of speech and  religious freedom, particularly if he wins. 

[trilobite 236]

On 02/07/2019 at 2:23 PM, Mike Del said:

There was a panalist on Q&A last night ( I think they were a lawyer) said the legal fees for Izzy should max out at a couple of 100k max. She also said that because this case was brought before the Fair Work Commission as an unfair dismissal case, it will always remain an unfair dismissal case regardless if it ends up in the High Court of Aus or Appeals Court. Therefore regardless of the result it will never be a president in any free speech or religious freedom court case. If correct that makes the actions of the council of churches and all those donating $ even more unusual.

Is Izzy’s case really that different to this lady’s?

https://pacelawyers.com/implications-of-comcare-v-banerji/

To save you some reading time, it’s about a department of immigration and border protection employee dismissed for making anonymous tweets (on her personal phone and mostly out of work hours) that were critical of her employer.

By comparison, Izzy was not anonymous in making posts that he knew were not consistent with his employer’s view.

And being much better paid, he arguably should have known better...

[IronmanFoz 1,240]

3 hours ago, trilobite said:

Is Izzy’s case really that different to this lady’s?

https://pacelawyers.com/implications-of-comcare-v-banerji/

To save you some reading time, it’s about a department of immigration and border protection employee dismissed for making anonymous tweets (on her personal phone and mostly out of work hours) that were critical of her employer.

By comparison, Izzy was not anonymous in making posts that he knew were not consistent with his employer’s view.

And being much better paid, he arguably should have known better...

Whilst I feel Izzy should be stoned and then sold for slavery per the bible.... he wasn't critical of his employer like this case above.

However, it still goes up against the code of conduct..... So am guessing she will lose this case (depending what the code of conduct actually says.

[IronmanFoz 1,240]

Just finish going through the Bible.

I could not find this picture it it anywhere:

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiMzdWJ4aLjAhWUfH0KHW7VCfgQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fsport%2Frugby%2Frugby-union%2Fnews-comment%2Fisrael-folau-homphobic-comments-anti-gay-instagram-hell-awaits-you-australia-rugby-player-a8862961.html&psig=AOvVaw3xRZFoJ2uZHvxSnQP0g5lp&ust=1562587192518028

Edited July 7 by IronmanFoz

[Mike Del 219]

3 hours ago, trilobite said:

Is Izzy’s case really that different to this lady’s?

https://pacelawyers.com/implications-of-comcare-v-banerji/

To save you some reading time, it’s about a department of immigration and border protection employee dismissed for making anonymous tweets (on her personal phone and mostly out of work hours) that were critical of her employer.

By comparison, Izzy was not anonymous in making posts that he knew were not consistent with his employer’s view.

And being much better paid, he arguably should have known better...

Yeh I notice all the talk of consequences of that case are limited to industrial law. I guess that's what industrial lawyer was saying on tv, because it was originally brought before the Fair Work Commission any precedents arising from the case are limited to the jurisdiction of fair Work Australia regardless if it ends up being decided in the High Court of Australia.