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AP's training tip # 4

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58 minutes ago, ironpo said:

I train lots but there isn’t any wasted time 

today I swam 8k (of course not everyone has a pool 5m from the back door)

3hrs Ride on trainer  , then 24k run (12X2k reps) and didn’t go any further than 1k from home 

started at 4-am and was finished and walking the dogs by just after 11-am 

also in that time I hung up two loads of washing , another advantage to traing at home is getting domestics done as you train 

 

i also never train train after work , or PM sessions , the second session of the day is the one that pits most strain on “family life” 

i just get done what I need to get done for the day in one session , whether that’s 90 mins or 10hrs . Once it’s done it’s done 

You are that person who wants it more

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I have averaged over 15 hours a week this year (and a fair bit of last year). Bumped up last week 20 and I got bumped back with illness and some muscle issues.

Even allowing for a super day at Port, I'm not KQ with what I'm bringing. You can say its mental and all that, however right now the best with a wetsuit swim for me is 65 and IP is dancing on that dream on the other thread, 530 bike and maybe a 345 run. At best that's 10:30 and that means having a perfect day

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Having said that theses rules of thumb assume everyone is the same, everyone is doing the same in their 15 hours, There are people who get it done on less.

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52 minutes ago, AP said:

I'm surprised someone hasn't pulled you up on this statement - how many times have you qualified ? and are you going to qualify at Port this year ? 😏

How many times have u qualified in an age group with more than 150 people in it? 

Did u qualify as easily when u were racing 30 to 34 age group?  

How many years did it take before you qualified. 

Or was it a case of paying your money & rocking up when u started? 

 

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20 minutes ago, AP said:

I'm surprised someone hasn't pulled you up on this statement - how many times have you qualified ? and are you going to qualify at Port this year ? 😏

I’m surprised also 

but not many reading here these days let alone on the weekend

 

when I started in 2003 you needed to do sub 9-35 in the 30-35 age which was the biggest group back then so had the most spots 

forster was the only race , so everyone who did IM did it , so the quality (cream) of the field was better 

then came the extra races and the boom in IM , extra races , extra spots , team PIS so extra cream into the sport 

now we have dropped one race but only lost 40 spots , but plenty of cream has also left the sport as well as numbers , so statistically you are allready got a better chance to KQ and that’s without the thinning of the cream 

 

I’m now in the older end of the 45-49 age , so same number entrants or even more than when I was in 30-35 as we have all moved up in age , but more spots and now you can KQ on about 10hr-10 at port and 10-20 to 10-30 at cairns if your lucky with the extra spots on a faster course 

 

my fastest time at busso was 9-20 but didn’t get a spot , now that’s a walk up start to kona 

 

KQ isn’t easy but it’s certainly not as hard as it was 5 -15 years ago , and is far more achievable than what it once was 

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I don't think AP would ever have raced 30 to 34 age group.  Hasn't he only been doing tri for 25ish years?  So mid 40's at best.

I'm enjoying reading all these threads.  I have nothing pertinent to offer, unless anyone wants to use me as a "how not to" example!

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14 minutes ago, goughy said:

anyone wants to use me as a "how not to" example!

I thought Tyno was the current Barkley sacrifice? 

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48 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

How many times have u qualified in an age group with more than 150 people in it? 

Did u qualify as easily when u were racing 30 to 34 age group?  

 

 

This is one of the things I was thinking of posting as well

I count AP as a true friend , great coach , I admire him , he’s great guy and would do anything for you as I would for him  . He was there for me during some rough times and got me my first KQ after 15 ironman races 

I also think I have no chance to be doing in regards to IM what he is doing when I get to his age , simply incredible 

but I do believe that he sees the IM world through rose coloured glasses at times , as maybe he hasn’t actually had to endure the absolute, self sacrifice, financial carnage and pure obsessive and selfish behaviour needed to be a near but not top end age grouper on the cusp of a KQ in a super competitive age group over a period of many years 

eg In an age group with 300 plus testosterone fuelled dudes with most of them wanting to KQ and half of them prepared to put a stick through your spokes just so you don’t beat them 

it’s freaking hard ,  it takes a f#cking lot , I’ve done it , he helped me for my first KQ but I can remember every bump , every pot hole at port , every early start , every hill , every 4 min k , every time from every race good or bad 

non of this shit is on strava or anything .its in my head , it’s part of the journey, it’s part of the love ,the drive , the addiction that encompasses every part of your life . I love it , I’m very lucky as both myself and mrs IP live it , but I just don’t think AP gets what it has been like down in the competitive age groups over the past 10 or so years 

15 hrs a week just doesn’t cut it 

thats not to diminished his achievements what so ever as they are simply amazing , and are something that I will never be able to achieve at any age 

Edited by ironpo
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You're right IP.

The throw-away line we use here, that "anyone can do an Ironman" is true (within sensible limits), but no matter how much they want it, I think less than 50% of young to middle-aged guys have the ability to KQ, no matter what training they do (also within sensible limits). And probably only 25% of them can do it on 15 hours a week.

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1 hour ago, AP said:

 how many times have you qualified ? and are you going to qualify at Port this year ? 😏

4 times , raced once 

so only 4  times after 32 IM races with a time no slower than 10-35 , fastest 9-20 

that shows you how competitive my age group has been over 15 years 

 

I hope to KQ at port , as that is allways my goal, but it may happen , I reckon I’m close but not quite there , might 1-5 mins short yet again

might not be depends who shows up 

I have plenty of tricathalete excuses, why I may not , some of them are even genuine , I may even ride my fat bike in the race to see if I can still go sub 11 on a fatbike 

 

even if if I KQ I won’t race , I’ll never do kona agin until the numbers drop or they implement a rolling start

niehter of which will happen 

after watchin mrs Is race there the last few years and working on course the drafting is a joke unless you are FOP (9hrs) or BOP (12 hrs at Kona)  , nochance of having a decent  and fair race 

 

 

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We are surprised that people leave the sport and that numbers drop. Read through threads like this and others, throw in ST no one in their right mind would want to join this culture.

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Quote

non of this shit is on strava or anything .its in my head , it’s part of the journey, it’s part of the love ,the drive , the addiction that encompasses every part of your life . I love it

This is the quality that gets you there - so far no one has really defined it quite as well 😎😎😎

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4 hours ago, Peter said:

15 hours a week is more like 19 hours a week anyway.

The time you spend getting to pools and running tracks and bike sessions or a strength session.  You have to include that time.

The sport is a massive time suck if you are really putting in big hours.

Even the time after a bike run session of showers and food and stretching etc...  Forget the time actually running or cycling.

I don't agree with you there mate, Or at least, that's not how I personally count training hours. In the other IM training thread, I wrote this: (I have to commute 50kms each way in the car on very busy roads)

Quote

The last two seasons I logged every training minute for both IM Wales races. Started at 30 wks out. (not really a plan, just gradually increasing).

Here's what I didn't count.  Swimming faffing, changing, wall time etc. Time at the cafe on rides, or any other faffing that wasn't moving fwd. No changing/ travelling time.  Same with running, only time actually running.

I did count strength sessions.

Both years I had a combination of travel, a few weekends blown with family/travel,  one week out for injury in the first year,  and some flu type stuff both years.

My peak weeks were 15hrs both years (LCW and one other).  If you'd asked me before counting, I would have said I was averaging 10hrs easy.

The actual average count over 30wks was:

2017:  8.8hrs

2018: 9.6 hrs

I was quite shocked,,and still knackered:lol:

 
  •  

 

Edited by FatPom

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3 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

 think less than 50% of young to middle-aged guys have the ability to KQ, no matter what training they do (also within sensible limits). And probably only 25% of them can do it on 15 hours a week.

I think talent is over rated for Ag KQ. Talent is needed to be a good professional but ag KQ is pretty much just consistent work. 

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3 hours ago, AP said:

This is the quality that gets you there - so far no one has really defined it quite as well 😎😎😎

Did u see my question above? 

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12 hours ago, prizna said:

I think talent is over rated for Ag KQ. Talent is needed to be a good professional but ag KQ is pretty much just consistent work. 

However, the 20ish hours IP is suggesting is needed in the 30-45 male AG rules out that level of consistency for many.

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12 hours ago, Bored@work said:

Did u see my question above? 

My first IM was in Kona 86 - just had to enter on time as an international competitor

then did Forster 90 - 11.56  - 92 - 10.44 --- 93 - 10.08 KQ - 94 in 40-44 - 9.55 KQ  - I don't know where to find the old results to check the actual numbers in each category - I do remember in 99 in the 50-54 there were 53 competitors and a 10.07 got me 2nd - that year I went on to get 3rd in Kona with my best time ever on the course and my fastest IM marathon - that was my 17th IM - I've said before it's a long apprenticeship 😏

When PJ won in Kona it was his 25th IM

 

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6 hours ago, trilobite said:

However, the 20ish hours IP is suggesting is needed in the 30-45 male AG rules out that level of consistency for many.

We all have families.

We all have jobs.

We all have 24h hours in a day.

We all make choices.

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45 minutes ago, prizna said:

We all have families.

We all have jobs.

We all have 24h hours in a day.

We all make choices.

Are your kids in school yet ? It gets a bit easier when they are

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39 minutes ago, prizna said:

We all have families.

We all have jobs.

We all have 24h hours in a day.

We all make choices.

And if you happen to be working 50-60 hours per week as the sole income keeping that family (inclusive of infants) in the manner to which they are accustomed, few people manage to find 20 hours a week away from them and work consistently.

Of course, scaling back your work and/or time spent with family are available choices, albeit choices often not looked kindly on.

To state the obvious, there are plenty of parents whose careers tend to be all consuming, but an extra 20 hours a week at work tends to be more socially acceptable than allocating that time to swim, bike and run.

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8 minutes ago, trilobite said:

And if you happen to be working 50-60 hours per week as the sole income keeping that family (inclusive of infants) in the manner to which they are accustomed, few people manage to find 20 hours a week away from them and work consistently.

Of course, scaling back your work and/or time spent with family are available choices, albeit choices often not looked kindly on.

To state the obvious, there are plenty of parents whose careers tend to be all consuming, but an extra 20 hours a week at work tends to be more socially acceptable than allocating that time to swim, bike and run.

Agree you can do it. But looking at Strava there are a lot of people with forgiving jobs. Where they can ride long on a Wednesday. It’s all choices. Most people with a real demanding job don’t get to say I don’t do Wednesday till lunch or I’m out early Monday evening and so on.

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25 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Agree you can do it. But looking at Strava there are a lot of people with forgiving jobs. Where they can ride long on a Wednesday. It’s all choices. Most people with a real demanding job don’t get to say I don’t do Wednesday till lunch or I’m out early Monday evening and so on.

Too true.

The Strava feed for an athlete mentioned above often includes ~1 hour lunch runs in summer (ie need some material cool down time) and rarely seems to involve more than a 9 hour day.

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32 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Agree you can do it. But looking at Strava there are a lot of people with forgiving jobs. Where they can ride long on a Wednesday. It’s all choices. Most people with a real demanding job don’t get to say I don’t do Wednesday till lunch or I’m out early Monday evening and so on.

So perhaps finding a forgiving job and forgiving spouse are key manifestations of the “eye of the tiger” that gets people to Kona?

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14 minutes ago, trilobite said:

So perhaps finding a forgiving job and forgiving spouse are key manifestations of the “eye of the tiger” that gets people to Kona?

Not sure, it is different for everyone. There will be the inevitable Dr Mitch example, where it is assumed all doctors are doing surgery every day. 

Kids means:

Getting them up and ready for a 730 leave the house, for before school care

Battle traffic get in at around 0830

Work, insert if job is demanding job lunch maybe 30 minutes or not at all

Leave around 1730

Pick up kids from after school

Feed them, bathe them maybe even interact with them

Now if you got up at 0500 to train you are pretty tired by 1900, maybe train again.

Also in this model you have contributed nothing to the housework, so your spouse might be a bit peeved.

Yes it is about choices, choosing to be gainfully employed so you can provide, being a good parent and husband, or choosing to slope off for long lunches and not worrying too much about home duties

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Interesting, times are getting quicker and the number of competitors in certain age groups seems to be increasing. 9:55 in the 40-44 age group & your lucky to crack the top 10 (I looked at the result for some of the harder courses Lanzarote, Louisville, Lake Placid etc) 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

Interesting, times are getting quicker and the number of competitors in certain age groups seems to be increasing. 9:55 in the 40-44 age group & your lucky to crack the top 10 (I looked at the result for some of the harder courses Lanzarote, Louisville, Lake Placid etc) 

 

 

Yeah these guys are doing more than fifteen hours a week - hey 😁

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Dan Plews was fastest ag overall at Kona last year. 

During his build for Kona 18 he had a wife, had a 6-12 month old, had a full time job at a university, consulted for another sporting company (can't remember what it was) and coached triathlon athletes. I believe he also had an injury. What I know is he got shit done and he had no time to complain about having no time.

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1 hour ago, BarryBevan said:

Getting them up and ready for a 730 leave the house, for before school care

Battle traffic get in at around 0830

Work, insert if job is demanding job lunch maybe 30 minutes or not at all

Leave around 1730

Pick up kids from after school

Feed them, bathe them maybe even interact with them

 

So you've got time before the kids get up.

Throw the kids in one of those bike trailer things, you'll avoid traffic and get training in.

Become better at your job so you don't have to work as hard and can have lunch.

Pick up kids, sweet another training opportunity.

You can't clean or throw some washing on as you cook for and bathe the kids?

 

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5 minutes ago, prizna said:

So you've got time before the kids get up.

Throw the kids in one of those bike trailer things, you'll avoid traffic and get training in.

Become better at your job so you don't have to work as hard and can have lunch.

Pick up kids, sweet another training opportunity.

You can't clean or throw some washing on as you cook for and bathe the kids?

 

Ok now you have gone past being a nice debate 

Become better at your job so you don't have to work as hard and can have lunch. Please don't go down this path as you are evidently picking a fight

How many kids do you have?

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Become better at your job, farking absolute edit ok too much. But seriously  do one

Edited by BarryBevan

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26 minutes ago, prizna said:

So you've got time before the kids get up.

Throw the kids in one of those bike trailer things, you'll avoid traffic and get training in.

Become better at your job so you don't have to work as hard and can have lunch.

Pick up kids, sweet another training opportunity.

You can't clean or throw some washing on as you cook for and bathe the kids?

 

And what is your line of work?

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So you've got time before the kids get up. Tick done

Throw the kids in one of those bike trailer things, you'll avoid traffic and get training in. Really going to ride with a trailer and make before and after pick up times

Become better at your job so you don't have to work as hard and can have lunch. Farking offensive

Pick up kids, sweet another training opportunity. Sure make it from office to after school in peak hour before 6 whne finishing no better than 515

You can't clean or throw some washing on as you cook for and bathe the kids? Mate parents do this and more and then go out in the dark or are on zwift after they do this and more

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1 hour ago, AP said:

Yeah these guys are doing more than fifteen hours a week - hey 😁

That or coaching techniques have improved 😒

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43 minutes ago, prizna said:

Dan Plews was fastest ag overall at Kona last year. 

During his build for Kona 18 he had a wife, had a 6-12 month old, had a full time job at a university, consulted for another sporting company (can't remember what it was) and coached triathlon athletes. I believe he also had an injury. What I know is he got shit done and he had no time to complain about having no time.

Would be interesting to understand how he and his spouse shared domestic jobs during that time.

My experience with 3 little ones is that setting an alarm for 5am while a <12 month old has been waking up during the night would have seen me sent packing.

Of course, some spouses are happy to 110% support their working spouse’s past-times by taking care of all he overnight feeds.

And some little guys start sleeping through the night before they hit 6 months old.

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Full time job at a uni, is more like some times have to work and be around campus while training and doing consulting work.

Instead of giving Dan's experience, I want to learn from your experience of doing it with family which you claimed about a week or so ago.

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4 hours ago, prizna said:

We all have families.

We all have jobs.

We all have 24h hours in a day.

We all make choices.

 

Yep & there is no right or wrong way we choose to spend our 24hrs. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

 

Yep & there is no right or wrong way we choose to spend our 24hrs. 

 

Agreed.

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44 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

 

Instead of giving Dan's experience, I want to learn from your experience of doing it with family which you claimed about a week or so ago.

If you're looking to me for an example you should probably aim higher. 

 

52 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

 

Become better at your job so you don't have to work as hard and can have lunch. Farking offensive

😭

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1 hour ago, prizna said:

If you're looking to me for an example you should probably aim higher. 

 

😭

Do you have kids

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I’m struggling to follow the arguments here but:

1. I believe for most people 15 hours is not going to cut it on my N=1 dataset 

2. For most people with kids and work, finding more than 15 hours is tough 

3. People without kids don’t really know the time they take + the time you want to give 

4. This is a selfish sport, if you are in it to qualify for Kona and cannot give +15 hours, save your family the pain and reset some other goals 

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11 minutes ago, Bosco said:

I’m struggling to follow the arguments here but:

1. I believe for most people 15 hours is not going to cut it on my N=1 dataset 

2. For most people with kids and work, finding more than 15 hours is tough 

3. People without kids don’t really know the time they take + the time you want to give 

4. This is a selfish sport, if you are in it to qualify for Kona and cannot give +15 hours, save your family the pain and reset some other goals 

Do it young then have a family. Much easier.

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21 minutes ago, Bosco said:

I’m struggling to follow the arguments here but:

1. I believe for most people 15 hours is not going to cut it on my N=1 dataset 

2. For most people with kids and work, finding more than 15 hours is tough 

3. People without kids don’t really know the time they take + the time you want to give 

4. This is a selfish sport, if you are in it to qualify for Kona and cannot give +15 hours, save your family the pain and reset some other goals 

Pretty much nailed it right there 👍

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10 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Do it young then have a family. Much easier.

Or do it when family is grown up and moved out 

you will have plenty of supporters on race day , plus you might be in one of those easy older age groups

just  gotta beat Kevin Ferguson or AP 🤔

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20 minutes ago, ironpo said:

Or do it when family is grown up and moved out 

you will have plenty of supporters on race day , plus you might be in one of those easy older age groups

just  gotta beat Kevin Ferguson or AP 🤔

Or do it when u can, want to & can fit it in around family, work etc 

i started doing Ironman when my daughter was 2.  She’s now almost 15. I fit training in around netball, horse riding, trips to the mall, dropping her at friends, watching shit tv series, going to acia bowl & coffee shops. 

Yep I could go faster, could I KQ nope, but I don’t want it enough. 

For me Ironman is something I do it’s not who I’am.

I think there is a difference in being a good parent & being a “ GOOD PARENT”  I’m putting all my effort into being th best Dad I can be. I’m not prepared to risk that for anything. 

*** I’m not saying ppl who qualify for Kona  are not good parents, so calm down. I’m just saying my priority is my girls & not going fast in an Ironman***

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24 minutes ago, ironpo said:

Or do it when family is grown up and moved out 

you will have plenty of supporters on race day , plus you might be in one of those easy older age groups

just  gotta beat Kevin Ferguson or AP 🤔

Lots of different views here. My 2 cents as a MOP: having recently started a family (have a 14mth old) I’ve realised just how much time you have to do anything you want when you don’t have kids hah. I’ve put full IMs on hold and will do 70.3 and shorter for the next 5-10yrs while we grow our family. I missed trying to KQ while young (am currently 31) but want to give it a crack so will wait til we’re done with kids and they’re bigger so I can throw myself into training and not miss too much. 

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If you are making family planning decisions around Ironman or KQ then that is a bit sad. 

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Just now, Shuffla said:

If you are making family planning decisions around Ironman or KQ then that is a bit sad. 

I see it as the other way around, and not sad at all. I had some goals, we decided to start a family so those goals are on hold. I hope to one day pick them up again. But you’re entitled to your opinion. 

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Sorry, my post wasn’t directed at you Emski. I agree with your approach - have a family and then focus on sport later. 

I love having my kids involved with my events. 

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55 minutes ago, ironpo said:

Or do it when family is grown up and moved out 

you will have plenty of supporters on race day , plus you might be in one of those easy older age groups

just  gotta beat Kevin Ferguson or AP 🤔

That ship has sailed for me :lol:

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