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How much of a problem is alcohol?

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9 hours ago, Oompa Loompa said:

 

Interesting  Govt won't do pill testing to save lives, but will do random breath testing to save lives.

 

They do random drug driver testing though.

 

I just can't see how pill testing would work.  If the pills are tested as fine and someone dies taking them then liability comes back.  If they test as being contaminated I reckon a fair portion of the people with the pills would still take the chance rather than give up their drugs.  They are taking the chance now so what is the difference.

Back on the original topic, I don't drink much or often maybe 1 pot a week after golf, maybe nothing for a month, but about once a year I have a massive night where I write myself off, always in a social setting, never home alone.  The recurrence of this is getting less, and I would love to say it won't happen again, but I can't guarantee it.  I have never been overly outgoing so relied on alcohol to have a good time and there is still some of that in me.

 

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On 05/03/2019 at 2:55 PM, trinube said:

Where deterrents are more likely to work is against people like suppliers at festivals.

Coming at this from somebody who spent 10 years running dance music nights and festivals (4,000 person indoor venues and more outdoors) as well as 14 years of ambulance / first aid work at events and supporting 999 calls I couldn't disagree more. Having had to be the one who has broken the news to friends of two people who died from contaminated drugs I don't want anything that makes people less likely to seek help and this definitely would because the mate that bought the gear and then passed it onto their friends is a "supplier" who they won't want to get into trouble.

Pill testing will save lives, speak to people on the front lines of these events whether that's ambo, organisers or I dare say police and you'll find they agree because they know how it actually works.

In Singapore there is the death penalty for importing drugs and potentially supplying them (although the latter is usually a long prison term) and I've been to music festivals there and drugs are just as easily available as they are here in Oz, about the same price too!

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10 hours ago, Oompa Loompa said:

 

Interesting  Govt won't do pill testing to save lives, but will do random breath testing to save lives.

 

And heroin injecting rooms. 

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As an emergency services worker of nearly 10 years I can honestly say alcohol is a much bigger issue in Australian society than drugs and I think part of this issue is because alcohol is legal and "accepted" by society. I have been assaulted 3 times while on the job-2 of those had nothing but alcohol on board (the third had both alcohol and drugs). I have been to people as young as 12 who are drunk all the way through to their 90s, it is not one specific cohort that has issues with alcohol, it's across all ages. I personally drink, most weeks I would have maybe 2-3 standards, and when I was younger I certainly binge drank like many young people do.

 

I have a real issue when people tell me "oh that's just so and so, they get a bit angry when they drink rum", or "you can't blame them, it's just the alcohol". No, take responsibility for your own actions. You put the alcohol in your body so have the balls to admit fault when you screw up because your intoxicated. And if you know drinking makes you angry/violent, etc, then don't drink!

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On ‎6‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 10:26 PM, Oompa Loompa said:

 

Interesting  Govt won't do pill testing to save lives, but will do random breath testing to save lives.

 

The first difference I see is the impact on others.

Drink and drugged driving risks other peoples lives as well.

Taking an unknown pill from a dodgy dealer at a festival and then taking 4 more is only risking your own.  If you make bad decisions, expect bad outcomes

By pill testing, the government is condoning taking illegal party drugs - with no ability to manage the dosage or consequences.

If you get caught drink/drug driving, you get taken off the road and some type of punishment. If pill testing occurred and you were to hand over an illegal tablet for testing and it comes back with no other contaminants, they give it back to you with a bottle of water to wash it down.

Big difference.

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4 hours ago, Turts said:

 If pill testing occurred and you were to hand over an illegal tablet for testing and it comes back with no other contaminants, they give it back to you with a bottle of water to wash it down.

Sorry Turts but this just isn't true. Where pill testing occurs any and all drugs handed in for testing are destroyed.

Also the "taking 4 more" is, frankly, nonsense. The people I have looked after relating to drugs have almost always been because the strength of the first dose was much higher than they anticipated or the first dose was contaminated.

Edited by monkie
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17 minutes ago, monkie said:

Sorry Turts but this just isn't true. Where pill testing occurs any and all drugs handed in for testing are destroyed.

Ah ok, Apologies. I'm not across it. 

So, someone would buy a few pills, give up one for testing but keep the rest? 

How much are these things anyway? The pills I mean. 

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2 minutes ago, Turts said:

Ah ok, Apologies. I'm not across it. 

So, someone would buy a few pills, give up one for testing but keep the rest? 

How much are these things anyway? The pills I mean. 

Normally people would give a part of a pill and then keep the rest. It's not just pills, they can test powders too which is good as the deaths I've dealt with have been MDMA powder rather than pills.

Price wise I have no idea... In the UK they were around £5 per pill (a long time ago when I knew these things) if not cheaper but I know that drug prices in Australia are about 4 times that in the UK... 

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I had a problem with the grog, gave it up completely at 34 (30+ years ago). It cost me almost everything.

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If pill testing occurred and you were to hand over an illegal tablet for testing and it comes back with no other contaminants, they give it back to you with a bottle of water to wash it down.

15 hours ago, monkie said:

Sorry Turts but this just isn't true. Where pill testing occurs any and all drugs handed in for testing are destroyed.

 

You are probably right, but they will just take another from there little plastic bag and wash it down and continue as if its Business as usual. I reckon that's what Turts was referring too.

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49 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

just take another

That's kind of the point.

Telling kids "Drugs are bad" hasn't stopped kids taking drugs.

Acknowledging the fact that there is fairly common drug use and offering people a chance to not die because they take drugs isn't a bad thing IMO.

It's not perfect, but it acknowledges we can do something different than just throw more sniffer dogs at the gates.

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5 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

You are probably right, but they will just take another from there little plastic bag and wash it down and continue as if its Business as usual. I reckon that's what Turts was referring too.

I understand the implication but facts matter and to say that the drugs are returned is incorrect (although no reason that Turts would have known that necessarily) and the problem with this kind of stuff is that if that goes unchallenged then somebody reads it and accepts it as the truth and then they are at a dinner party and they retell it as the truth and so it spreads and everybody that hears it is outraged that people would suggest such a thing and the debate spirals into the usual opinions as facts direction that these things do so I think it's important to correct things when I know (or can prove) them to not be correct. I  spend a huge amount of time trying to persuade businesses to move to a more data / fact driven way of making decisions and I try and promote it wherever I can!

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Saw this today on Facebook from old Tranny "Woolie" , quite true. 

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ABC reported on a woman who got done for DUI a few days ago. Blew .25 when picking up her 6yo from school. Also had her 2yo in the car. Some people clearly have a problem and clearly no idea.

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2 hours ago, trinube said:

ABC reported on a woman who got done for DUI a few days ago. Blew .25 when picking up her 6yo from school. Also had her 2yo in the car. Some people clearly have a problem and clearly no idea.

I didn't think you could even function at 0.25. 

 

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Alcohol abuse is the biggest issue and we have out of touch pollies not policing alcohol crime. While denying pill testing which is proven to safe lives.

Of course they are being cheered on by people who it does not support their values, even though denying pill testing costs lives. Oh well not a surprise when we have people championing wage restraint for the poor, massive tax cuts for the rich and questioning the credibility of the victims testimony on the pell thread.

Edited by BarryBevan

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