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Jan Fredeno - Training

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If this is true I don't quite understand... he's never near that kinda speed racing so what's the point in smashing them out so fast? Especially for IM. I'm not knocking it, just thought you might know why? 

 

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Its interesting in an interview woth ryan hall on the forward podcast he said they never went threshold. Just under.  So you can improve. 

If they went above threshold, they would lose the top end speed. 

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18 minutes ago, Peter said:

Its interesting in an interview woth ryan hall on the forward podcast he said they never went threshold. Just under.  So you can improve. 

If they went above threshold, they would lose the top end speed. 

I guess I coach a little like that, the less is more approach with intensity, my guys and girls barely ever go over threshold as well. Takes too long to recover. 

I think Frodo ran 1.06 but I also think that course wasn't spot on either, 450m short (from memory). 

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Remember too Willie, I'm guessing most of the people you coach probably had to go to work after your session, or had just finished work, or something to that effect?  He probably had a massage or a nap or something?

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35 minutes ago, goughy said:

Remember too Willie, I'm guessing most of the people you coach probably had to go to work after your session, or had just finished work, or something to that effect?  He probably had a massage or a nap or something?

Yes, all except 2. And I don't forget that. But it's a genuine interest cause that's a very hard set knowing you're backing up swimming etc

6 minutes ago, prizna said:

Or Frodo knows what he is doing and Willie just thinks he knows

I don't think I know, which is why I put it up here. I found it interesting and or peaked my interest. 

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We are all different....if he can do '5 x 1km with 90sec rest starting in 3:05s and ending under 2:55s. Average around 3:00.' to become (Olympic Triathlon Champion, 2 time World Half Ironman Champion, 2 time World Ironman Champion), it works for him. Keep doing it.

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15 hours ago, Peter said:

Its interesting in an interview woth ryan hall on the forward podcast he said they never went threshold. Just under.  So you can improve. 

If they went above threshold, they would lose the top end speed. 

Was listening to that on the way to work. Wasn't it Armstrong saying that he did the majority of his training just below lactate threshold?

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55 minutes ago, Naut said:

Was listening to that on the way to work. Wasn't it Armstrong saying that he did the majority of his training just below lactate threshold?

Yeah.  Seems to work okay for him and his team for 7 years. 

Edited by Peter
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Speaking of training, check out Jan's response to a recent Pete Jacob's tweet...and Pete's response back.

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And now he has a stress fracture...

I know at least 10 people that have had stress fractures over the last few years, leg, back etc and the culprit is hard intervals.

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7 minutes ago, TimG said:

Speaking of training, check out Jan's response to a recent Pete Jacob's tweet...and Pete's response back.

Have you got a screen shot I can't see anything

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3 minutes ago, zed said:

And now he has a stress fracture...

I know at least 10 people that have had stress fractures over the last few years, leg, back etc and the culprit is hard intervals.

I think that's a bit of a generalisation mate and there is so much more to it than that.

Hard intervals won't hurt you if you build up appropriately, limit the amount you do on really hard surfaces (concrete), have good shoes, good form with no weaknesses and also pace them correctly.    If you're in week 3 of a build, have done fark all running and blast out the gates doing a 3:30 1st km in a 6x1km set and finish the last one in 4:45 cause you've completely blown up and your form has gone to shit then I'd suggest that is the reason for injures and not the hard effort itself.

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7 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

Have you got a screen shot I can't see anything

 

7890E4F6-7243-49A0-87D3-C0CD0B8FC26A.jpeg

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1 minute ago, RunBrettRun said:

 ... If you're in week 3 of a build, have done fark all running and blast out the gates doing a 3:30 1st km in a 6x1km set and finish the last one in 4:45 cause you've completely blown up and your form has gone to shit...

Ah, to run 4:45 after blowing up ;)

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30 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

I think that's a bit of a generalisation mate and there is so much more to it than that.

Hard intervals won't hurt you if you build up appropriately, limit the amount you do on really hard surfaces (concrete), have good shoes, good form with no weaknesses and also pace them correctly.    If you're in week 3 of a build, have done fark all running and blast out the gates doing a 3:30 1st km in a 6x1km set and finish the last one in 4:45 cause you've completely blown up and your form has gone to shit then I'd suggest that is the reason for injures and not the hard effort itself.

yeah true

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59 minutes ago, xblane said:

 

7890E4F6-7243-49A0-87D3-C0CD0B8FC26A.jpeg

Sorry, I don't really follow along with much social media, but are PJ and Frodeno mates just taking the piss out of each other, or is there ill feeling?

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We need more of the conversation to really understand the context?  Need to know what comment Jan was replying too.

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They aren't mates.

And what's Jacobs training for?  Another DNF?

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Just now, Peter said:

They aren't mates.

And what's Jacobs training for?  Another DNF?

Doing Huski. 

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image.thumb.png.89cb94d6890be1cb8a767c8cb88dfba2.png

 

Sorry, I was being deliberately lazy, I didn't want to have to take a screen shot :)

Edited by TimG

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I think Jan is onto something. Although trannies would have suggested a pie...

 

 

Or maybe a donut? 

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3 hours ago, RunBrettRun said:

I think that's a bit of a generalisation mate and there is so much more to it than that.

Agreed. I think short hard intervals are fantastic when used properly like any kind of run training. You can equally cause yourself an injury by doing a 3 hour long run when you're not ready for it and dragging your arse around the last 30 mins with terrible form.

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Can someone explain to me me what 'threshold' means in terms of running. Is it the pace you can hold for xx minutes?

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21 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

Mixing it up with a DNS (see other thread) instead of a DNF. Well played PJ . 

:huh: huh? Which thread? 

Elite energy had it on Facebook today that PJ was racing!! 

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6 minutes ago, roxii said:

:huh: huh? Which thread? 

Elite energy had it on Facebook today that PJ was racing!! 

Isn’t the husky event in doubt in 

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Ahhhh. 

Sorty bit slow this arvo. 

Maybr check the council submissions and see if one of the “against” ones is from a mr. Jacobs of Noosa :lol: 

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9 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

Did I mention I’m vegan? 

Next you’ll be dnfing races. 

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23 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

Did I mention I’m vegan? 

You're not a real vegan until you get a virtue signalling t-shirt informing the rest of us. :thumbsup:

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2 hours ago, FatPom said:

You're not a real vegan until you get a virtue signalling t-shirt informing the rest of us. :thumbsup:

Not a scratch n sniff one .... 😷

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5 hours ago, FatPom said:

Can someone explain to me me what 'threshold' means in terms of running. Is it the pace you can hold for xx minutes?

Yup. Either Threshold HR or Threshold Pace. Threshold Pace is your running equivalent of FTP so how fast you can go for 60 mins. 

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15 minutes ago, monkie said:

Yup. Either Threshold HR or Threshold Pace. Threshold Pace is your running equivalent of FTP so how fast you can go for 60 mins. 

Cheers mate, i was assuming something like that.:thumbsup:

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On 08/02/2019 at 8:27 AM, softy said:

We are all different....if he can do '5 x 1km with 90sec rest starting in 3:05s and ending under 2:55s. Average around 3:00.' to become (Olympic Triathlon Champion, 2 time World Half Ironman Champion, 2 time World Ironman Champion), it works for him. Keep doing it.

Yep, amazing what some can do.

Seb Coe's long run pace was 3.30 per k. I thought it sounded sus until I realised he could run 1500m in 3.30.

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A 10km run off the bike in an Olympic Distance Triathlon usually relates to standalone Half Marathon pace (probably a little different in draft legal). In his ITU days, Frodeno seemed easily capable of running 29m30s off the bike -> 2m57s pace.  So if we estimate 3m05s to be his Half Marathon pace and 2m55s to be his standalone 10km race pace, the speed of his intervals no longer seem that fast.

Also, don't think of the intervals being 1km. More accurate to see them as 3 min efforts with 90 sec recovery.

Although the 15 repeats is more than an amateur / age grouper would do.

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10 hours ago, Rob said:

A 10km run off the bike in an Olympic Distance Triathlon usually relates to standalone Half Marathon pace ...

Would you say this is accurate for an age grouper too? 

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58 minutes ago, BogFrog said:

Would you say this is accurate for an age grouper too? 

My HM should have been about 5 minutes faster by that standard, so I was a bit faster over the shorter distance. I would probably put that down to never doing any long running training back then though.

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8 hours ago, BogFrog said:

Would you say this is accurate for an age grouper too? 

It varies from person to person but it is often referred to as a guide.

Personally my run times off bike were nearly always quicker than my standalone runs - over any distance.  But I'm weird and never had much top end speed on the run anyway.  I put it down to either being properly warmed up, the increased leg cadence on the bike transferring to the run, and/or the extra buzz (mojo) I get from racing the tail end of a triathlon where I'm usually passing people due to my poor swimming at the start!

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6 hours ago, Go Easy said:

It varies from person to person but it is often referred to as a guide.

Personally my run times off bike were nearly always quicker than my standalone runs - over any distance.  But I'm weird and never had much top end speed on the run anyway.  I put it down to either being properly warmed up, the increased leg cadence on the bike transferring to the run, and/or the extra buzz (mojo) I get from racing the tail end of a triathlon where I'm usually passing people due to my poor swimming at the start!

Tail end? Please... I'll take tail end to race as well as you have over the years. 

Not to be rude, but I don't think you were ever a 'runner', you run well but not 'fast'. I haven't met many people that slow down as little on the run as you (pretty sure the longer it gets the better you place as well). 

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