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2 hours ago, BogFrog said:

If the murderer grew up hearing sexist language & attitudes it would absolutely change the way he thinks and acts. Calling it out early teaches that it's not acceptable

While I am all for calling it out, I think using such extreme events and drawing a line back is a bit pointless. People act like the perpetrator is a rational "normal" person.  I'm going out on a limb and guessing not. Probably did have a bad upbringing, now estranged from family and friends, unemployed, probably mentally unstable etc. etc. Also a very good chance this person was high on some substance at the time.

Most violence against women is done by people who know them, and know them very well, this is way out there. 

Let's call stuff out for the people who are directly affected by it, less about doing it so that some horrific crime isn't committed by someone who would probably stab you to death if you did randomly call it out anyway.

Otherwise it's a bit like thinking if we sung the national anthem at more sporting events people like the Bourke Street idiot would have thought twice about running over his fellow australians. 

And I am with Turtle, this forum could clean up its act occasionally. There is a line between keeping it real and being rude and I'm sure everyone could argue all day about where it is but when in doubt maybe best to be less "funny" and keep it to yourself. 

Edited by dazaau

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50 minutes ago, more said:

Call it classic whatever you want  it's crazy to think there are people like yourself who are so determined to make us pariahs whilst turning your back to the real issues women face in many parts of the world, start with India and the middle East, then move over to Africa and Asia.

No, it's much easier to make yourself feel good about sticking up for silly adds whilst women in those parts of the world suffer REAL oppression, discrimination and violence 

 

Nothing to do with making myself feel good. Just trying to get you to realise that it ain't all rosy. I am not turning my back on anybody, I believe in equal rights everywhere but what you've done is say "It's OK that people in Australia get sexually harassed / discriminated against / bullied because over there in those other countries people have it a lot worse."

That's lame and pathetic.

Like I said, unless you can come up with anything other than "I think everything is fine and anything that goes against my belief that it's all fine and white men are being picked on" is "Crap" then I'm done. If you could respond to any of the times I've called you out on things you've said rather than going off on another tangent then perhaps I might re-engage.

Oh and I suggest you re-watch the ad as I don't think you did it properly the first time as you started off by claiming that it was all white guys doing bad things and black guys doing good things... that's just a lie:

White woman comforting child at 0:17
Black man saying "Boys will be boys" at 0:38
White man breaking up fight at 1:23 and 1:27
 

So it kinda undermines even further the rest of your "arguments".

Have a great day :)

 

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3 minutes ago, monkie said:

Nothing to do with making myself feel good. Just trying to get you to realise that it ain't all rosy. I am not turning my back on anybody, I believe in equal rights everywhere but what you've done is say "It's OK that people in Australia get sexually harassed / discriminated against / bullied because over there in those other countries people have it a lot worse."

That's lame and pathetic.

Like I said, unless you can come up with anything other than "I think everything is fine and anything that goes against my belief that it's all fine and white men are being picked on" is "Crap" then I'm done. If you could respond to any of the times I've called you out on things you've said rather than going off on another tangent then perhaps I might re-engage.

Oh and I suggest you re-watch the ad as I don't think you did it properly the first time as you started off by claiming that it was all white guys doing bad things and black guys doing good things... that's just a lie:

White woman comforting child at 0:17
Black man saying "Boys will be boys" at 0:38
White man breaking up fight at 1:23 and 1:27
 

So it kinda undermines even further the rest of your "arguments".

Have a great day :)

 

Smug much? I couldn't care less if you 're engage' mate...and don't put words in my mouth-that IS lame and pathetic. But if we are going to tackle sexism we should start where it is a far worse problem.

Putting words in your mouth it's better to make sure we have enough water to put on our flowers while people overseas die from drought...

 

What I do know is people like to take the easy option rather than face the harsh realities of the world 

 

Edited by more

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39 minutes ago, more said:

What I'm getting at is as a whole I think women are treated very well in our society. There might be isolated instances of discrimination but there are isolated examples of every I'll you can think of.

Ah, no. This occurs daily to most women in some way or another  

The examples you suggest of women in power are the exceptions. Not the rule. 

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1 minute ago, more said:

Smug much? I couldn't care less if you 're engage' mate...

And I think my point is nicely made. 

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3 minutes ago, monkie said:

And I think my point is nicely made. 

Yes you are right, and I'm sure this well aimed add will do wonders to change the lives of women all throughout India, the middle East and Asia....

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6 minutes ago, Katz said:

Ah, no. This occurs daily to most women in some way or another  

The examples you suggest of women in power are the exceptions. Not the rule. 

Well that's a whole other discussion-are women under represented because of sexism or because on a numbers basis not as many are drawn to CEO type positions. 

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The ad isn't bad and I really can't see why anyone is taking offense with what it says or how it says it.  What I see is Gillette being used as a specific target for the popular idea that men as a whole are responsible for the existence of "toxic masculinity."

To me toxic masculinity is an oxymoron.  Males in all traditional cultures and animal species are, first and foremost, protectors.  If there is a trait that characterises masculinity then that's it.  "Toxic masculinity" isn't masculinity at all, it's a backlash against insecurity and lack of control.  It's trying to create feelings of power as a compensation mechanism.  The last thing that is going to improve that situation is telling these men who feel this way that they are weak and defective.  I don't think this ad does that, I think it tries to show men that you can be masculine simply by standing up for the right thing.

Boys aren't raised solely by men.  My thoughts and attitudes about what masculinity is have been influenced more by the women in my life as I was growing up than they were by the men.  The women in my life bestowed in me an ideal of what being a man meant, the men in my life just exhibited those behaviours because that's what was expected of them.  To do anything else would have been unmanly.

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1 hour ago, more said:

That's ok, I'm sure girls who get murdered like this 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/11/india-bihar-honour-killing-family-mutilated-teenage-daughter-eloping-say-police

 

Will be glad that we went to all the trouble of making sure our horrible sexist white males were accordingly called out 

So we can only work on one issue at a time? Can't try and make their lives better as well as making our lot better? 

 

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I watched the video and thought great ad if it stops one father/male etc and makes them think about their actions and how influential they are over young minds. Then it's a great ad. 

My Dad is ex-military old school hard ass. Boys shouldn't cry, dob on others etc. Women were never treated equally and children should be seen & not heard. The way he explained homosexuality to me as a child was brutal. He binged drank, smoked and never helped around the house. 

I have done everything I can to break the habits my Dad taught me. 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, more said:

It's all la la land rubbish, no amount of 'calling out' would have stopped that lady being murdered. What WOULD have prevented her death and others like her is the real word acceptance that there are some very very bad people out there and no amount of 'its my right to walk alone late at night as a female's is going to protect you from these bad people. 

 

Devaluing of women from childhood sets the scene for behaviour as an adult. I am horrified by stories my wife tells me coming out of the mouths of pre-school boys. They are getting this from the examples in their lives, their fathers. If their schoolmates and teachers, and uncles, and footy mates call bullshit on their inherited attitudes, behaviours will change. Young men think date rape, slipping a micky in a drink, gang bangs, scoreboards etc are fair go because they are conditioned to.

Here's my suggestion: make violence by men against women akin to violence against children/paedophilia. If convicted, go on a sex offenders registry like child offenders do.

 

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39 minutes ago, BogFrog said:

So we can only work on one issue at a time? Can't try and make their lives better as well as making our lot better? 

 

I'm not seeing anything being done to help their lives overseas?

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Just now, Parkside said:

They are getting this from the examples in their lives, their fathers.

What an offensive thing to say about the role that women play in raising children.

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9 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

I watched the video and thought great ad if it stops one father/male etc and makes them think about their actions and how influential they are over young minds. Then it's a great ad. 

My Dad is ex-military old school hard ass. Boys shouldn't cry, dob on others etc. Women were never treated equally and children should be seen & not heard. The way he explained homosexuality to me as a child was brutal. He binged drank, smoked and never helped around the house. 

I have done everything I can to break the habits my Dad taught me. 

 

 

 

I re watched the add and agree it was probably more balanced than I originally thought.

That being said I still believe it was an easy out with far more serious issues in the places I've already listed.

 

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7 minutes ago, Parkside said:

Young men think date rape, slipping a micky in a drink, gang bangs, scoreboards etc are fair go because they are conditioned to.

 

Shit do they?  I can't recall meeting blokes like that, I must have moved in some tame circles!

Though come to think of it, at Uni in the 80's I do recall telling a bloke at a B&S Ball that what he was proposing to do was rape....so he didn't.

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8 minutes ago, Parkside said:

Devaluing of women from childhood sets the scene for behaviour as an adult. I am horrified by stories my wife tells me coming out of the mouths of pre-school boys. They are getting this from the examples in their lives, their fathers. If their schoolmates and teachers, and uncles, and footy mates call bullshit on their inherited attitudes, behaviours will change. Young men think date rape, slipping a micky in a drink, gang bangs, scoreboards etc are fair go because they are conditioned to.

Here's my suggestion: make violence by men against women akin to violence against children/paedophilia. If convicted, go on a sex offenders registry like child offenders do.

 

Well the problem I'm facing is my son loves music and therefore is always wanting to watch music videos. The level of filth and female degregation these videos portray is truely shocking-might be a good place to focus 'social change'...

And then you have the problem of women portraying themselves as nothing more than sex objects because 'its their body' and 'slut shaming'

And somehow I'm supposed to somehow feel responsible for this???

How confusing for young men

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5 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

Shit do they?  I can't recall meeting blokes like that, I must have moved in some tame circles!

Though come to think of it, at Uni in the 80's I do recall telling a bloke at a B&S Ball that what he was proposing to do was rape....so he didn't.

You walk past them every day

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54 minutes ago, more said:

Well the problem I'm facing is my son loves music and therefore is always wanting to watch music videos. The level of filth and female degregation these videos portray is truely shocking-might be a good place to focus 'social change'...

And then you have the problem of women portraying themselves as nothing more than sex objects because 'its their body' and 'slut shaming'

And somehow I'm supposed to somehow feel responsible for this???

How confusing for young men

Yeah, I was going to say similar.  T&A videos as my wife calls them.You never really saw this in the 70's/80's music vids so repeatedly, though when you did (one Duran Duran vid with topless girls comes to mind), it was women being 'sexualised' in the narrative of the vid.  Now, they are doing it to themselves!  It's become predictable & boring & contradictory & a whole lot of other things that are a bit effed up.

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2 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

Yeah, I was going to say similar.  T&A videos as my wife calls them.You never really saw this in the 70's/80's music vids so repeatedly, though when you did (one Duran Duran vid with topless girls comes to mind), it was women being 'sexualised' in the narrative of the vid.  Now, they are doing it to themselves!  It's become predictable & boring & contradictory & a whole lot of other things that are a bit effed up.

Good points

I wonder what Madonna thinks of all this...

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1 hour ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

Shit do they?  I can't recall meeting blokes like that, I must have moved in some tame circles!

Though come to think of it, at Uni in the 80's I do recall telling a bloke at a B&S Ball that what he was proposing to do was rape....so he didn't.

Think yourself lucky. Your parents sound like they were a good influence on you and you had friends with morals. (hope that doesn't sound condescending)

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9 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

Think yourself lucky. Your parents sound like they were a good influence on you and you had friends with morals. (hope that doesn't sound condescending)

Well, TBH my old man bought Playboy magazines & we found his stash at about the ages of 9 & 10 ! And I grew up in a small country town where some friends (or acquaintances really) had a pretty bad attitude towards girls.  And then I got sent to a boys boarding school which was another notch up in 'male white privilege'.

I think what helped me was the first 9yrs of schooling in co-ed public education, esp the local country girls in Yrs 7-8 who were fantastic friends and great strong girls who took no shit!

.

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1 hour ago, more said:

Well the problem I'm facing is my son loves music and therefore is always wanting to watch music videos. The level of filth and female degregation these videos portray is truely shocking-might be a good place to focus 'social change'...

And then you have the problem of women portraying themselves as nothing more than sex objects because 'its their body' and 'slut shaming'

Society is certainly all over the place on this. 

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2 hours ago, more said:

Well the problem I'm facing is my son loves music and therefore is always wanting to watch music videos. The level of filth and female degregation these videos portray is truely shocking-might be a good place to focus 'social change'...

And then you have the problem of women portraying themselves as nothing more than sex objects because 'its their body' and 'slut shaming'

And somehow I'm supposed to somehow feel responsible for this???

How confusing for young men

You should not feel responsible for this.

not telling you how to raise your son. But provide the best you can around him. Eg take him to your 70.3, he will see women wearing not much more, but proud of what they can achieve.

He will also see you as positive role model compared other people, using sport positively. Then he may follow your actions. 

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8 minutes ago, rory-dognz said:

You should not feel responsible for this.

not telling you how to raise your son. But provide the best you can around him. Eg take him to your 70.3, he will see women wearing not much more, but proud of what they can achieve.

He will also see you as positive role model compared other people, using sport positively. Then he may follow your actions. 

Thanks and I'm sure he will. It's funny I can't at all relate to people having to have discussions with their sons about how to treat women as we never had any talks with our Dad-it just never occurred to us to treat women with anything other than respect,  it's just common sense isn't it? Like at its most basic-how would you want your mum or sister to  be treated?

But I guess there are people out there who do come from pretty bad role models who literally need it spelled out for them...

Edited by more

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3 hours ago, more said:

Well that's a whole other discussion-are women under represented because of sexism or because on a numbers basis not as many are drawn to CEO type positions. 

The best thing that everyone can do for this is call out bad CEOs and managers, regardless of sex, race or anything else.  Seen too many toxic individuals being supported by the 'sisterhood' and allowed to stay in these roles when no man would expect to for the same behaviour, nothing else is going to damage the cause of 'equality' any quicker than this.  Unfortunately it is the reality that while the current ratios are in place, people are going to remember a terrible woman manager much more than they are a terrible male manager when they have much few good ones to counter the memory

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27 minutes ago, more said:

Thanks and I'm sure he will. It's funny I can't at all relate to people having to have discussions with their sons about how to treat women as we never had any talks with our Dad-it just never occurred to us to treat women with anything other than respect,  it's just common sense isn't it? Like at its most basic-how would you want your mum or sister to  be treated?

But I guess there are people out there who do come from pretty bad role models who literally need it spelled out for them...

Totally agree and that possibly is what is annoying about the add. It is telling some of us that we don’t know how to act like we do act. 

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20 hours ago, more said:

Just read that.  Couldn't relate to it at all.  If she's trying to make me feel responsible or guilty, failed.

BTW looks like the bloke they have in custody is not a white privileged male?

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5 hours ago, more said:

Yes you are right, and I'm sure this well aimed add will do wonders to change the lives of women all throughout India, the middle East and Asia....

You are assuming that people of Indian, Middle Eastern and Asian origin treat women badly or are more violent than people of YOUR race. How do you come to this conclusion? Is it because the television and media that you tune in to leads you to believe this? This is just naive and straight out racist. It's easy to trawl the internet to find an example of a young woman murdered in an 'honor' killing to support your view just as it's easy to highlight the young woman raped and murdered in Melbourne to argue that women are vulnerable in Australian society. The truth is, that humans can be very violent and aggressive towards each other, no matter what your gender or race - it's world-wide, not race specific. (However, when was the last time you heard of an Indian acting aggressively and inciting war?)

This award winning advert screens in India. I suspect it would cause an uproar among men if shown in Australia. Feels very progressive to me.

 

 

What I find sad is, that all of this leads women to believe that they are victims and therefore, they live in constant fear causing them to change their behaviours. Many women won't even train in the dark. Ask any women what kinds of strategies she adopts to keep herself safe each day and it might surprise you how long the list is, even for the strongest of women. This would include things like: avoiding walking by yourself at night, avoiding quiet parks and woods, carrying car keys as a weapon, double checking you've locked your house at night, locking your car doors when you're driving, feeling anxious walking past building sites, never consider traveling alone, never rent ground floor flats, draw the curtains at night etc etc.

How many men think about these things on a daily basis?

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1 hour ago, rory-dognz said:

Totally agree and that possibly is what is annoying about the add. It is telling some of us that we don’t know how to act like we do act. 

Exactly. I think the advert  even makes me believe that 99% of men out there don't do the 'right thing', and correspondingly, many women are starting to believe this percentage.  Most of us are decent and most of us would call out any of our friends or even strangers if they witnessed inappropriate behaviour.   Play the advert in a different country please where there is a far greater problem.  

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19 minutes ago, The Customer said:

You are assuming that people of Indian, Middle Eastern and Asian origin treat women badly or are more violent than people of YOUR race. How do you come to this conclusion? Is it because the television and media that you tune in to leads you to believe this? This is just naive and straight out racist. It's easy to trawl the internet to find an example of a young woman murdered in an 'honor' killing to support your view just as it's easy to highlight the young woman raped and murdered in Melbourne to argue that women are vulnerable in Australian society. The truth is, that humans can be very violent and aggressive towards each other, no matter what your gender or race - it's world-wide, not race specific. (However, when was the last time you heard of an Indian acting aggressively and inciting war?)

This award winning advert screens in India. I suspect it would cause an uproar among men if shown in Australia. Feels very progressive to me.

 

 

What I find sad is, that all of this leads women to believe that they are victims and therefore, they live in constant fear causing them to change their behaviours. Many women won't even train in the dark. Ask any women what kinds of strategies she adopts to keep herself safe each day and it might surprise you how long the list is, even for the strongest of women. This would include things like: avoiding walking by yourself at night, avoiding quiet parks and woods, carrying car keys as a weapon, double checking you've locked your house at night, locking your car doors when you're driving, feeling anxious walking past building sites, never consider traveling alone, never rent ground floor flats, draw the curtains at night etc etc.

How many men think about these things on a daily basis?

I don't have my glasses so can't read all that but how many honour killings do we have in Australia, how many  females arrested for being in the company of a unrelated male, how many sold into sex slavery? The big difference these things are all culture related!!

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There are many women who the victims of domestic violence in Australia. Many, many, many. Men and boys can also be the victims of domestic violence in the hands of women, however, are less likely to report it because of the stigma associated with it. As far as sex slavery goes - my guess is plenty of prostitutes in Aus would rather be doing something else LOL.

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8 hours ago, rory-dognz said:

Back to the topic, I think the message is appropriate and timely. The more the message is repeated in the main stream the sooner a shift will happen. 

Appropriate and timely, maybe (in my opinion always good to get a reminder of positive messages), but this campaign was not designed as some public service announcement - it was about flogging more razors and creating a furore about something which gets people talking about the brand.

If you think that the latter is not the primary cause of the campaign, well, you've obviously never sat in a creative review!

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I am also white, middle-class, well-traveled, of average height, privately-educated, dual passport holder, part Aussie and part Brit and drive a Mini. 

I make no apologies for any of those aspects of my life which I either cannot change or do not want to change as they are universally regarded as harmless. I treat everyone as equals. End of.  

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42 minutes ago, The Customer said:

There are many women who the victims of domestic violence in Australia. Many, many, many. Men and boys can also be the victims of domestic violence in the hands of women, however, are less likely to report it because of the stigma associated with it. As far as sex slavery goes - my guess is plenty of prostitutes in Aus would rather be doing something else LOL.

You are ignoring the difference is culture. Females in Australia areny sold into sex slavery against their will, females in Australia aren't put into jail for being in the company of males, females in Australia aren't murdered as part of a culture honour killing system.

Why are you so unwilling to accept the reality of other parts of the world? It does not you racist, it makes you a realist

It seems that it is you who could benefit from traveling the world and seeing reality...

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9 minutes ago, more said:

It seems that it is you who could benefit from traveling the world and seeing reality..

Picked the wrong tack there More. 

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33 minutes ago, more said:

You are ignoring the difference is culture. Females in Australia areny sold into sex slavery against their will, females in Australia aren't put into jail for being in the company of males, females in Australia aren't murdered as part of a culture honour killing system.

Why are you so unwilling to accept the reality of other parts of the world? It does not you racist, it makes you a realist

It seems that it is you who could benefit from traveling the world and seeing reality...

I AM A REALIST. As a professional working woman, I have lived for 3 years in Asia, 5 years in the Middle East, 2 years in the UK, 6 months in Canada, have travelled to more countries than most, many times by myself, so I can say with quite a lot of confidence that I have never felt so much hatred and menacing behaviour towards women as during my 40 years living in Australia. Wish that wasn't the case. You may be surprised to know that I have never felt safer and more respected as a woman, than when I was living in the Middle East. My travels alone in Oman were particularly delightful. I can no longer tolerate watching Western media, as in my experience, it's very manipulative and driven purely to attract ratings through shock value and lies.

Edited by The Customer
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28 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

FB_IMG_1547809004072.jpg

The .... Best a Man Can Get!

SMH!

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33 minutes ago, The Customer said:

I AM A REALIST. I have lived for 3 years in Asia, 5 years in the Middle East, 2 years in the UK, 6 months in Canada, have travelled to more countries than most, many times by myself, so I can say with quite a lot of confidence that I have never felt so much hatred and menacing behaviour towards women as during my 40 years living in Australia. Wish that wasn't the case. You may be surprised to know that I have never felt safer and more respected as a woman, than when I was living in the Middle East. My travels alone in Oman were particularly delightful. I can no longer tolerate watching Western media, as in my experience, it's very manipulative and driven purely to attract ratings through shock value and lies.

 As a female in Asia did you talk to any of the prostitutes that were sold by their families, in the middle east did you dare drink alcohol, show skin and hair, were you allowed to drive a car or vote...

But yes I'm sure it was safe as over there all the crooks are quickly hung or shot.

 

Oman huh....sounds like a very pro woman country..." Female genital mutilation is permitted and widely accepted and practiced" "as soon as a woman is wed, most of her decisions are made by her husband" so progressive.....so respectful

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6 hours ago, more said:

...And then you have the problem of women portraying themselves as nothing more than sex objects because 'its their body' and 'slut shaming'

And somehow I'm supposed to somehow feel responsible for this???

How confusing for young men

I agree that it's all screwed, but ever consider that this behavior might be due to conditioning? To thinking their only worth is in how they look? On how their sexuality is the only thing they have to offer? The only thing that will make men notice they are there?

4 hours ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

I think what helped me was the first 9yrs of schooling in co-ed public education, esp the local country girls in Yrs 7-8 who were fantastic friends and great strong girls who took no shit!

.

They must've had great role models who showed them theitmr worth. Glad to read that

3 hours ago, Cottoneyes said:

The best thing that everyone can do for this is call out bad CEOs and managers, regardless of sex, race or anything else.  Seen too many toxic individuals being supported by the 'sisterhood' and allowed to stay in these roles when no man would expect to for the same behaviour, nothing else is going to damage the cause of 'equality' any quicker than this.  Unfortunately it is the reality that while the current ratios are in place, people are going to remember a terrible woman manager much more than they are a terrible male manager when they have much few good ones to counter the memory

I've seen too many bad male managers supported by the "boys club"! Way more of them out there than bad female managers supported by the sisterhood.  The amount of sh!t bad male managers I've had that no-one has called out... I've had a few terrible experiences and I'm not someone who takes crap - I was reduced to tears by a bully.  My current manager is awesome BTW. Happens to be male...

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3 minutes ago, more said:

 As a female in Asia did you talk to any of the prostitutes that were sold by their families, in the middle east did you dare drink alcohol, show skin and hair, were you allowed to drive a car or vote...

But yes I'm sure it was safe as over there all the crooks are quickly hung or shot.

you need to stop. In Bahrain I ran a training squad coaching Muslim men and women in triathlon. Most of us ran, rode and raced around the public streets in normal shorts, singlets and trisuits. The women chose to wear whatever they were most comfortable in. some wore regular trisuits, some preferred to wear leggings and capped sleeve t-shirts. Occasionally I'd get a woman who preferred to wear long sleeves as well as leggings. Depended on their own preference.

I drank alcohol at the hotels and sports clubs that served it in the Middle East, often with Muslims. Some Muslims drank alcohol, some chose not to. I drove everwhere with my long, blonde hair billowing out of the window LOL. I did not vote because I was not a passport holder but was surprised to see that there is a higher percentage of female ministers in the Bahraini parliament than in Aus.

Last year in Saudi Arabia, women were given the right to drive even though in rural areas, women were already driving themselves around quite freely. 

As far as crooks go, crime and violence is very low on the street due to the restrictions on alcohol and the peace-loving nature of Islam.

Can't say I knowingly hung out with prostitutes in Asia (that I know of), nor have I mingled with prostitutes in Australia.

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2 hours ago, Prince said:

Exactly. I think the advert  even makes me believe that 99% of men out there don't do the 'right thing', and correspondingly, many women are starting to believe this percentage.  Most of us are decent and most of us would call out any of our friends or even strangers if they witnessed inappropriate behaviour.   Play the advert in a different country please where there is a far greater problem.  

Most men here are decent on the whole, yes but most men to not call out sexist comments and language. Most men would not call out a sexist "joke"...

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11 minutes ago, The Customer said:

you need to stop. In Bahrain I ran a training squad coaching Muslim men and women in triathlon. Most of us ran, rode and raced around the public streets in normal shorts, singlets and trisuits. The women chose to wear whatever they were most comfortable in. some wore regular trisuits, some preferred to wear leggings and capped sleeve t-shirts. Occasionally I'd get a woman who preferred to wear long sleeves as well as leggings. Depended on their own preference.

I drank alcohol at the hotels and sports clubs that served it in the Middle East, often with Muslims. Some Muslims drank alcohol, some chose not to. I drove everwhere with my long, blonde hair billowing out of the window LOL. I did not vote because I was not a passport holder but was surprised to see that there is a higher percentage of female ministers in the Bahraini parliament than in Aus.

Last year in Saudi Arabia, women were given the right to drive even though in rural areas, women were already driving themselves around quite freely. 

As far as crooks go, crime and violence is very low on the street due to the restrictions on alcohol and the peace-loving nature of Islam.

Can't say I knowingly hung out with prostitutes in Asia (that I know of), nor have I mingled with prostitutes in Australia.

Wow you make the middle east sound like a utopia....what the hell have I been reading about and seeing in the news for the last 30 years? Must be all fake news...

Wow so women were finally able to drive cars in Saudi Arabia...so progressive...

 

"Oman has no laws prohibiting domestic violence and marital rape"

Sounds like a great place for a female...gee Australia sucks...

Edited by more

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6 minutes ago, more said:

Wow you make the middle east sound like a utopia....what the hell have I been reading about and seeing in the news for the last 30 years? Must be all fake news...

Wow so women were finally able to drive cars in Saudi Arabia...so progressive...

"Oman has no laws prohibiting domestic violence and marital rape"

Sounds like a great place for a female...gee Australia sucks...

Not condoning / supporting any of this, but Ireland only permitted abortion in 2018 .... and they still haven't worked out how this is to be implemented and gives GPs the right to refuse treatment based on religious grounds!

Seemingly backward behaviours and practices can happen even in developed nations.

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Just now, Rimmer said:

Not condoning / supporting any of this, but Ireland only permitted abortion in 2018 .... and they still haven't worked out how this is to be implemented and gives GPs the right to refuse treatment based on religious grounds!

Seemingly backward behaviours and practices can happen even in developed nations.

Whos to say banning abortion is backward? Have you ever fallen pregnant and seen that little person alive in the womb? Abortion is murder, against a defenceless and innocent little human.

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3 minutes ago, more said:

Wow you make the middle east sound like a utopia....what the hell have I been reading about and seeing in the news for the last 30 years? Must be all fake news...

Wow so women were finally able to drive cars in Saudi Arabia...so progressive...

Bingo! You finally said I agree with. Cheers

It's easier to go to war with a country over oil if you believe they are bad people. 

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2 minutes ago, The Customer said:

Bingo! You finally said I agree with. Cheers

It's easier to go to war with a country over oil if you believe they are bad people. 

So you are just going to ignore the genital mutalations and legal rape/domestic violence bits uh huh...

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6 minutes ago, Rimmer said:

Not condoning / supporting any of this, but Ireland only permitted abortion in 2018 .... and they still haven't worked out how this is to be implemented and gives GPs the right to refuse treatment based on religious grounds!

Seemingly backward behaviours and practices can happen even in developed nations.

You ought to come back to Aus!

Only just made legal in Qld last month, and still illegal in NSW unless averting serious danger to the mother.

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen

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4 minutes ago, more said:

So you are just going to ignore the genital mutalations and legal rape/domestic violence bits uh huh...

I think you'll find FGM occurs mostly in Africa across both Christian and Muslim communities. Like I said earlier, I don't believe any singular race or religion is more violent than another. Families are simply trying to be their best all over the world. Fathers and Mothers will always love their sons and daughters equally. Psychopaths and idiots aren't race or religion specific.

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