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8 minutes ago, The Customer said:

I think you'll find FGM occurs mostly in Africa across both Christian and Muslim communities. Like I said earlier, I don't believe any singular race or religion is more violent than another. Families are simply trying to be their best all over the world. Fathers and Mothers will always love their sons and daughters equally. Psychopaths and idiots aren't race or religion specific.

No you can't just ignore this critical part so easily. You have said that a country that allows genital mutilation, that allows domestic rape and violence is better for females than Australia. 

That is just insane.

 

Also no, fathers and mothers do not always love their sons and daughters equally. Do I really need to bring up the examples of female babies being killed in China?

"The People's Republic of China and its predecessors have a history of female infanticide spanning 2000 years"

It's scary how brainwashed some people have been into believing we are the bad ones while mind boggling horrors to women are happening on a devestating scale around the world...

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19 minutes ago, more said:

Whos to say banning abortion is backward? Have you ever fallen pregnant and seen that little person alive in the womb? Abortion is murder, against a defenceless and innocent little human.

Oh God! Do we really need to go there? They let mothers die ffs. An unviable child is worth motlre than a living, breathing woman. Look up Savita

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21 minutes ago, more said:

No you can't just ignore this critical part so easily. You have said that a country that allows genital mutilation, that allows domestic rape and violence is better for females than Australia. 

That is just insane.

 

Also no, fathers and mothers do not always love their sons and daughters equally. Do I really need to bring up the examples of female babies being killed in China?

"The People's Republic of China and its predecessors have a history of female infanticide spanning 2000 years"

It's scary how brainwashed some people have been into believing we are the bad ones while mind boggling horrors to women are happening on a devestating scale around the world...

Again, you are afraid of your own thoughts and imaginings formed by watching cheap journalism.

People can't help it when they born into countries with crappy governments, such as Saudi and China. An empathetic human will understand how the one child policy devastated many Chinese parents. Never assume that people of races different to yours don't feel grief and despair in their situation.

Best to back away from the internet now. Hope this discussion gets you thinking about your truths.

cheers

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7 hours ago, more said:

No you can't just ignore this critical part so easily. You have said that a country that allows genital mutilation, that allows domestic rape and violence is better for females than Australia. 

That is just insane.

I'm not getting into this argument about the detail. 

But, just because it may be worse elsewhere doesnt mean we cant call out less than great behaviour here. 

If u have a headache it still hurts. Just because someone overseas has a migraine of a brain tumour that hurts more doesnt mean yours doesnt hurt. You can still take a panadol and be thankful that a panadol is all you need. 

If you go all day without a meal and are hungry, you can still say I'm hungry and have some dinner. Some people dont eat for a week in famine starved countries and are hungrier than you . You can still eat and be thankful you live somewhere you have access to food. 

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Are all white males more privileged just wondering as the queen Kate Middleton and some celebrity royalty are going ok.

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7 hours ago, The Customer said:

Again, you are afraid of your own thoughts and imaginings formed by watching cheap journalism.

People can't help it when they born into countries with crappy governments, such as Saudi and China. An empathetic human will understand how the one child policy devastated many Chinese parents. Never assume that people of races different to yours don't feel grief and despair in their situation.

Best to back away from the internet now. Hope this discussion gets you thinking about your truths.

cheers

I think you need to think about your truths. I have identified some pretty significant realities of life for females in these countries and you don't want to know about it, instead blaiming it on cheap journalism....just wow....talk about denial.

Fact in your beloved Oman there is no law against domestic rape and violence.

Fact in China they have a long history of killing female babies-this was well before the one child policy.

I really hope you can open your eyes, get educated and see the reality of life for females in some of these places.

Yes people can't help where they are born but that doesn't excuse or change the reality of what is happening in those places..

 

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1 hour ago, Turts said:

I'm not getting into this argument about the detail. 

But, just because it may be worse elsewhere doesnt mean we cant call out less than great behaviour here. 

If u have a headache it still hurts. Just because someone overseas has a migraine of a brain tumour that hurts more doesnt mean yours doesnt hurt. You can still take a panadol and be thankful that a panadol is all you need. 

If you go all day without a meal and are hungry, you can still say I'm hungry and have some dinner. Some people dont eat for a week in famine starved countries and are hungrier than you . You can still eat and be thankful you live somewhere you have access to food. 

I agree, but I'd truely feel silly focusing all of my energy on making sure a female felt heard in the board room all while another female is getting raped and beaten to a pulp legally somewhere else in the world.

So in other words while we are trying to make change here what are we doing to effect change elsewhere where it's more urgently needed?

Otherwise it's all pretty selfish isn't it..

Talking of headaches this topic certainly is giving me one. Only on the internet can you get into an argument that females in the middle east and Asia are treated better than in Australia...

 

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1 hour ago, more said:

I agree, but I'd truely feel silly focusing all of my energy on making sure a female felt heard in the board room all while another female is getting raped and beaten to a pulp legally somewhere else in the world.

So, because you can't help someone who has it really bad over there, you wont help someone who just had it bad here?

Help where and when you can. Call out bad behavior when you see it - it might really help someone

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7 minutes ago, BogFrog said:

So, because you can't help someone who has it really bad over there, you wont help someone who just had it bad here?

Help where and when you can. Call out bad behavior when you see it - it might really help someone

No that's not what I said at all. I said I'd feel silly if I wasn't trying to help both.

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To the people who argue that these things aren't directed at all men, only the ''bad'' ones here's some examples for you.

Clementine Ford - ''Men of Australia, it's time to pick your side'', also Clementine Ford ''Kill all men''

Dan Andrews - ''Women don't need to change, men do''

Sarah Hanson-Young

''Men cannot control themselves'', ''it is not women's faults that men behave like morons and pigs''

 

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The world has gone mad...this is a quote of premier Dan Andrews in regards to the murder "But nothing will change until we change, too. Until we stop blaming ‘bad men’ – while ignoring the sexist attitudes in our society that created them.”

So he is saying this lady was murdered because of sexist attitudes in our society....wtf??? And here I was thinking murderers were bad, when really they were just sexist.

Well I guess if all the murderers and rapists were just a little more socially progressive we could eliminate murder and rape.....the world has gone mad.

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1 hour ago, more said:

The world has gone mad...this is a quote of premier Dan Andrews in regards to the murder "But nothing will change until we change, too. Until we stop blaming ‘bad men’ – while ignoring the sexist attitudes in our society that created them.”

So he is saying this lady was murdered because of sexist attitudes in our society....wtf??? And here I was thinking murderers were bad, when really they were just sexist.

Well I guess if all the murderers and rapists were just a little more socially progressive we could eliminate murder and rape.....the world has gone mad.

I think the point is that we progressively lower the bar of acceptable behaviour with these kinds of attitudes which makes it less of a leap to do bad things. Once the individual (the victim, be them male or female) is dehumanised, it's easier to justify the violence for the perpetrator.

It saddens me that men are all lumped together in the way they are. I am often annoyed by the focus on violence against females when that is just one part of a much bigger problem of violence against others. We as a society appear to be becoming more selfish, less respectful, and generally more tolerant of violence against each other. It's a big problem that requires across the board change. Violence against women is just one part.

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In the end the point is moot for the victim, but sometimes, murder wouldn't be the specific target of the offender. 

Quite often, it is "simply" an act of violence that exceeds the victims physical capacity to tolerate it. 

Or a blow in such a place that is fatal - without the intent at the time.

yes the intent is to cause harm.  But my point is, language begets behaviour.  

Langage against women or a racial group becomes behaviour against that group.  That can evolve to violent behaviour.  And sometimes this results in the death of the victim. 

I'm not saying it's OK.  Of course not.  But we beed to remember that quite often these deaths are the result of violence that stems from a life of developing an attitude towards this person or fgroup, which probably just started with langage and observation. 

 

Only a small subset of deaths are from someone actually going in with the INTENT to murder and nothing else. 

Sublte but important psychological difference when you are exploring solutions. 

 

For example, acceptance of language that describes women as only sexual objects can, in cases, lead to rape if the mindest of the person becomes such that they feel entitled to use that woman only for sex.

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Not sure why this had to be made about white males. The video itself was not offensive, did not say anything about white male privilige, what ever that is.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Katz said:

I think the point is that we progressively lower the bar of acceptable behaviour with these kinds of attitudes which makes it less of a leap to do bad things. Once the individual (the victim, be them male or female) is dehumanised, it's easier to justify the violence for the perpetrator.

It saddens me that men are all lumped together in the way they are. I am often annoyed by the focus on violence against females when that is just one part of a much bigger problem of violence against others. We as a society appear to be becoming more selfish, less respectful, and generally more tolerant of violence against each other. It's a big problem that requires across the board change. Violence against women is just one part.

100% correct

The problem is a general, gradual loss of respect for others and self.  Across the board, not just among men with regard to women 

 

 

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On ‎17‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 7:49 PM, Katz said:

I understand some men are in some way offended by this ad. I fail to appreciate why. Can anyone enlighten me?

Finally got to see the ad to see what everyone is on about.

I can't see what all the fuss is about.  It's an advertisement, and it's a good message.

If you see another male acting badly then call them out on it...  Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm possibly older than 'most' people on here and over the years I've seen some pretty poor behaviour by both guys and girls.  I wish I'd been stronger in the past to call it out - nowadays I usually do.

Gillette is selling razors to males with the slogan 'the best a man can be' (which is a play on their original slogan 'the best a man can get').  They can hardly be expected to be telling girls to call out bad behaviour from other girls in an add for male razors...  Just sayin!

There is definitely no way that I am offended by this ad.

And I'm a classic overthinker!

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2 hours ago, Go Easy said:

Finally got to see the ad to see what everyone is on about.

I can't see what all the fuss is about.  It's an advertisement, and it's a good message.

If you see another male acting badly then call them out on it...  Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm possibly older than 'most' people on here and over the years I've seen some pretty poor behaviour by both guys and girls.  I wish I'd been stronger in the past to call it out - nowadays I usually do.

Gillette is selling razors to males with the slogan 'the best a man can be' (which is a play on their original slogan 'the best a man can get').  They can hardly be expected to be telling girls to call out bad behaviour from other girls in an add for male razors...  Just sayin!

There is definitely no way that I am offended by this ad.

And I'm a classic overthinker!

Same for me, as a 65yo I’ve witnessed a lot of bad behaviour from both male and female and I’ve even been a victim of bullying myself from a male boss which on looking back I let myself down and should have been stronger. My wife, before I met her, was living on her own at the time, and had her married boss knock on her door one night, of course he was refused entry, but as an 18yo, was made very uncomfortable at work and had to leave.

If you get a chance read Richard Glover’s “The Land before Avocado” it’s  about life in Australia in the 60s and 70s and also talks about the attitude towards women back then. We have made a lot of progress but obviously we still have a long way to go.

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I agree with GE. First time I've seen the ad and I didn't get offended. As a matter of fact, I had to read the comments here to see what points were being made. Maybe I'm just dumb or don't give a toss.Who actually takes notice or dissects the contents of ads anyway? Obviously a lot of people.

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Just going to lock this one here folks, getting a little bit heated and I don't think the debate is a healthy one

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