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Soooooo general consensus is now to wear my bike shoes from T1 (and therefore I guess also my socks) and stop, mount and ride off into the sunset?

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Other point of Geelong, is straight over the mountline, you have a 200-300m drag on the flat, and then a left uturn before climbing at 5ish% for twice that distance. So if you don't get the feet in before you turn, your climbing will be impacted. So if you don't practice a flying mount and making sure you can cinch down the shoes properly, (noting that there are others around all weaving about when they are trying to do the same thing) it might not be faster anyway (at least when you exit around the time I do and it seems five wide at that point.)

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21 minutes ago, more said:

Soooooo general consensus is now to wear my bike shoes from T1 (and therefore I guess also my socks) and stop, mount and ride off into the sunset?

How do you ride in training? Do that. 

May want to get some more swim training in if you're riding off into a sunset tho ;)

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Yes I have seen plenty of crashes at or near the mount line. But the athletes with their shoes already on seem to have just as many problems (sometimes more) trying to clip in (especially when their cleats are now full of dirt). The main issue with your shoes attached is making sure you do not start pedaling with a shoe hanging upside down.

There are skills worth learning and you would be surprised how quick it is to become proficient. Some people have trouble grabbing their water bottle while riding. I know athletes who stopped on the bike every time they had to eat or drink in an Ironman.

If you leave your shoes attached to the bike, you do NOT need to do a flying mount. You can simply push off from a standing start with one foot on top of the shoe and swing the other leg other. The shoe on the 'other' foot needs to be flipped over (on top of the pedal) before you start pedaling.

Also, depending on the size of transition, I would suggest the advantage of shoes attached to the bike is well over a minute. Based on comparing my transition times to other athletes who run in their bike shoes.

Skills in general are often neglected by Triathletes. Pretty much every bike course has u-turns (often fairly tight ones). How many people practice cornering? How many practice FAST transitions in their brick sessions, taking off their wetsuits quickly, mount and dismounts, staying outside the draft zone, descending, sighting in open water, porpoising, beach starts, deep water starts, swimming around buoys, drafting in the swim? These are just the very basic skills before you get more advanced with track stands, bunny hops, riding no hands, bumping handlebars, leaning on other riders, tumble turns, dive starts, etc. They would rather spend $3,000 on a wheel upgrade that promises a 40 sec advantage over 180km.

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2 hours ago, Rob said:

Yes I have seen plenty of crashes at or near the mount line. But the athletes with their shoes already on seem to have just as many problems (sometimes more) trying to clip in (especially when their cleats are now full of dirt). The main issue with your shoes attached is making sure you do not start pedaling with a shoe hanging upside down.

There are skills worth learning and you would be surprised how quick it is to become proficient. Some people have trouble grabbing their water bottle while riding. I know athletes who stopped on the bike every time they had to eat or drink in an Ironman.

If you leave your shoes attached to the bike, you do NOT need to do a flying mount. You can simply push off from a standing start with one foot on top of the shoe and swing the other leg other. The shoe on the 'other' foot needs to be flipped over (on top of the pedal) before you start pedaling.

Also, depending on the size of transition, I would suggest the advantage of shoes attached to the bike is well over a minute. Based on comparing my transition times to other athletes who run in their bike shoes.

Skills in general are often neglected by Triathletes. Pretty much every bike course has u-turns (often fairly tight ones). How many people practice cornering? How many practice FAST transitions in their brick sessions, taking off their wetsuits quickly, mount and dismounts, staying outside the draft zone, descending, sighting in open water, porpoising, beach starts, deep water starts, swimming around buoys, drafting in the swim? These are just the very basic skills before you get more advanced with track stands, bunny hops, riding no hands, bumping handlebars, leaning on other riders, tumble turns, dive starts, etc. They would rather spend $3,000 on a wheel upgrade that promises a 40 sec advantage over 180km.

I can understand why someone would prefer to spend some money on a shiny new cool looking toy that makes them faster rather then spend hours focusing on how to take a wetsuit off, perform a U turn, mount and unmount etc 😉 

I am however unaware of why you would be tumble turning, bunny hopping or leaning on other riders in a triathlon 😮

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10 minutes ago, dazaau said:

 

I am however unaware of why you would be tumble turning, bunny hopping or leaning on other riders in a triathlon 😮

That’s why you don’t win.  They can’t beat you if you take them out.

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1 hour ago, dazaau said:

I am however unaware of why you would be tumble turning, bunny hopping or leaning on other riders in a triathlon 😮

I listed these as 'advanced' skills.

If you want to do swim squads with faster swimmers, you will need to tumble turn. Otherwise you will be too slow off the wall and hold others up. Plus tumble turning will result in a better quality swim session.

If you want to join fast bunch rides, you need to be able handle the occasional bump. Putting your hand on another rider's shoulder while you look behind helps you hold a straight line while you look back. I have read many on this forum say you should do all your training rides without drafting because that's how we race, but I very much disagree. There is a mid week ride I join which is by far the hardest ride of the week. I have to turn myself inside out just to hang on.  I simply cannot replicate this effort when riding solo (maybe others are better than me at this).

I have Bunny hopped more obstacles than I care to remember. I learnt this skill as a teenager on a BMX. But it has saved me so many times. Especially if riding in a pack when someone else 'less skilled' puts you in an awkward situation.

Again, I mentioned these as more advanced skills, but would still recommend learning them.  None of them are difficult

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4 hours ago, Rob said:

I listed these as 'advanced' skills.

If you want to do swim squads with faster swimmers, you will need to tumble turn. Otherwise you will be too slow off the wall and hold others up. Plus tumble turning will result in a better quality swim session.

If you want to join fast bunch rides, you need to be able handle the occasional bump. Putting your hand on another rider's shoulder while you look behind helps you hold a straight line while you look back. I have read many on this forum say you should do all your training rides without drafting because that's how we race, but I very much disagree. There is a mid week ride I join which is by far the hardest ride of the week. I have to turn myself inside out just to hang on.  I simply cannot replicate this effort when riding solo (maybe others are better than me at this).

I have Bunny hopped more obstacles than I care to remember. I learnt this skill as a teenager on a BMX. But it has saved me so many times. Especially if riding in a pack when someone else 'less skilled' puts you in an awkward situation.

Again, I mentioned these as more advanced skills, but would still recommend learning them.  None of them are difficult

It's also called FREE SPEED! THIS COSTS NOTHING.

Having been in the sport for 30-odd years and seen and experienced lots, it never ceases to amaze me how many people make simple errors from not having trained for the basics, let alone the advanced skills. Things like (at race pace): -

- Swim sighting - positioning yourself to void the melee / swimming the shortest possible route / drafting / pacing;

- Nutrition - pre-race / eating and drinking on the bike and run / gathering up bottles;

- Transitions - assembling and arranging gear in the zone / walking the transition zone / the routine of transition (wetsuits off etc) / feet in or feet out / wearing shoes or not;

- Bike handling skills - cornering / braking / climbing / descending / U-turns;

- Equipment maintenance - how to make your gear (whatever you've spent) last and safe / ensure it works on race day and training

- Run technique - running the apexes / the crests / drafting.

These are the things that, together, mount up to some serious time and will give a serious psych boost along the way.

Luck is where Preparation meets Opportunity!

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On 08/01/2019 at 5:13 PM, more said:

So I have my first 70.3 in a few weeks in Geelong. As a complete newb Id appreciate any advice anyone has to share. From what I gather in the other thread I should draft and pee on the bike..... what else?

Nutrition-any good websites or ballpark recommendations?

Gear-my heart rate monitor isn't water proof. Do you bother putting it on after the swim, not sure I can be arsed?

Socks on the bike-just personal preference?

Weird things I wouldn't have experienced (besides guys peeing on the bike)

Any other hints or tips for a guy who has only done a few sprints? 

Remember to take some time and look around ,soak it up a little you'll never do another first 70.3 again. See You Out There.

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On 12/01/2019 at 9:51 AM, TThomo said:

Remember to take some time and look around ,soak it up a little you'll never do another first 70.3 again.

Unless you DNF. :(

Edited by Paul Every

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On ‎11‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 5:17 PM, dazaau said:

 

I am however unaware of why you would be ... bunny hopping ... in a triathlon 😮

I'm guessing you've never done a Warringah tri club race at North Head...

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On 11/01/2019 at 5:17 PM, dazaau said:

... unaware of why you would be ... bunny hopping ... in a triathlon 😮

You're approaching to overtake the rider in front when they drop their water bottle which starts rolling into your path.

You could swerve, but you might misjudge the direction of the water bottle and hit it anyway, or worse take out another rider who was just starting to pass you.

Or you could hold your line and bunny hop over it.  No chance of hitting the water bottle, no chance of taking out another competitor. Unless of course you have never practiced a bunny hop and don't know how to do them.

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1 hour ago, Rob said:

Or you could hold your line and bunny hop over it.  No chance of hitting the water bottle, no chance of taking out another competitor.

*Thread crossover* and you might just catch out the guy drafting behind you as he didn't see the bottle coming!

But realistically, for someone's first 70.3, I'm not sure bunny hopping, shoes on the bike etc etc are the greatest 'bang for buck' training hours. 

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9 minutes ago, xblane said:

But realistically, for someone's first 70.3, I'm not sure bunny hopping, shoes on the bike etc etc are the greatest 'bang for buck' training hours. 

Agree. In one of my earlier posts I listed it under 'advanced' skills.  Sorry for taking the thread off topic.

Off topic again: I had done around 50 Triathlons and Duathlons before I did my first Half Ironman. First 5 races I wore runners on flat pedals. Bought my first 'good' bike with clipless pedals on a Saturday. That afternoon rode it to a carpark to practice shoes attached to bike and raced that way the next morning. Some of these skills are very easy to learn (although it definitely helps if you have Tri shoes rather than road shoes).

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I ran a drink station at Geelong and agree with what was said above about slowing down to get drinks.   You won't believe the number of people who flew through and had drinks flying everywhere trying to grab them. 

 

I've finished one Half IM.   Learn the time cut offs,  because I got the bike cut off wrong and fanged it, not leaving a lot in the tank for the run.   

 

As for the run - that said, if you start the run, I think you stand a good chance of finishing because there's no damn way after completing the first two legs you want to pull out.   I walked a fair chunk of it, slowest half marathon of my life, and I didn't care.   

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O.K some more questions-so I'm guessing the day before you check you bike in and then the day of the race you have access to go in, pump your tyres, lay all your gear out etc yeah.

So what else do I need to think about-here's my outline so far

-get dressed in trisuit at home with wettie, goggles and all the other stuff in my gear bag

-get there about 5:45 and check in, pump tyres and lay out sneakers, sunnies, towel etc

-Get changed out trackies etc and put wettie on, check in gear bag

-pace around nervously for the next 30 mins

Sound like a plan?

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Is this your first time checking your bike in the day before?  Especially if it's hot, consider letting your tyres down a bit.  You can pump them up the next morning anyway.  But if the transition is on bitumen and it's a hot day, it's possible for a tyre to pop.  Reckon I've heard one go at least half the times I've done Mooloolaba.  I just do this automatically at every overnight transition now regardless of the conditions.

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6 minutes ago, goughy said:

Is this your first time checking your bike in the day before?  Especially if it's hot, consider letting your tyres down a bit.  You can pump them up the next morning anyway.  But if the transition is on bitumen and it's a hot day, it's possible for a tyre to pop.  Reckon I've heard one go at least half the times I've done Mooloolaba.  I just do this automatically at every overnight transition now regardless of the conditions.

Yep first time-only done sprints before. Is it an option to take your wheels with you so I could just pump them up at home in the morning the day of, or do the wheels need to stay with the bike?

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13 minutes ago, more said:

Yep first time-only done sprints before. Is it an option to take your wheels with you so I could just pump them up at home in the morning the day of, or do the wheels need to stay with the bike?

I'd love to see this.. but I wouldn't call that simplification of the process bu any means...

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Your forks might be resting on the ground if you did that.  I'm with pieman, would love to see that, along with the seat and bars covered up in plastic bags to protect them from the rain, and a line of gels already taped to the top tube.

Nah, just let them down a little and take a pump with you, or ask someone around you of you can borrow there's.  I see that all the time.  I remember one near me blowing at Mooloolaba and scared the shit out of me!  I really wanted to be there when the dude found out in the morning but missed him.  Nothing like a quick tyre change in transition morning to up your pre race nerves!  Even better if they forgot to check!!

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One bit of advice I have always done.  Be there when transition opens and be in and out.  Don't over think that part.  Lots of nervous negative energy in transition so I'm there as the gate opens and do what I need to and get out.  Someone always farks something up around you and wants help sorting it.  As harsh as it sounds it's easier not to get involved which seems to work getting in first.  Also gives you a lot of time to find a toilet and do what you need to before the race.

 

Also I always try get wet before the start it always seems to calm the nerves getting in the water and turning the arms over for 5min or so just to get rid of some nervous energy.

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3 hours ago, goughy said:

Is this your first time checking your bike in the day before?  Especially if it's hot, consider letting your tyres down a bit.  You can pump them up the next morning anyway.  But if the transition is on bitumen and it's a hot day, it's possible for a tyre to pop.  Reckon I've heard one go at least half the times I've done Mooloolaba.  I just do this automatically at every overnight transition now regardless of the conditions.

I’ve done 37 half Ironman’s and I do not agree with your advice. 

Pump your tyres up the day before. It will be 14c overnight. They aren’t going to pop from heat. 

I’ve seen more issues with race day pumping tyres and ****ing it up with ripping the valve out and then having to panic changing the tube in the hour before the race. 

 

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Fair enough.  As I said, I've heard tyres go, but that's only been at Mooloolaba where it's hot as and transition is on bitumen.  So I've just always let them down a touch since.  

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14 minutes ago, goughy said:

Fair enough.  As I said, I've heard tyres go, but that's only been at Mooloolaba where it's hot as and transition is on bitumen.  So I've just always let them down a touch since.  

Hear them go on race morning or at 7pm the night before?

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Do people still pump their tyres up to the max pressure? Can’t imagine the change in temp having more than 5-10psi difference. 

I only run my tyres about 85-90 psi range. Pump them up a little extra overnight to account for any leakage. But I’ve only had to check my bike in overnight once. But normally pump them the night before so one less thing to worry about 

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24 minutes ago, Peter said:

Hear them go on race morning or at 7pm the night before?

While transition is open the day before, while the sun is shining and it's hot.

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7 hours ago, more said:

-pace around nervously for the next 30 mins

Sound like a plan?

 

5 hours ago, goughy said:

Nothing like a quick tyre change in transition morning to up your pre race nerves! 

 

2 hours ago, RunBrettRun said:

Lots of nervous negative energy in transition so I'm there as the gate opens and do what I need to and get out. 

Also I always try get wet before the start it always seems to calm the nerves ...............just to get rid of some nervous energy.

Or you could all just relax and enjoy yourselves. B)

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With all the pumping popping  i presume we are talking latex and not butyl?

Edited by more

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I think we're nearly talking about an Arnold Schwarzenegger body building doco now.....

 

Just have some fun, stuff done shit up, have some more fun.

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4 minutes ago, goughy said:

I think we're nearly talking about an Arnold Schwarzenegger body building doco now.....

 

Just have some fun, stuff done shit up, have some more fun.

For sure! I was just thinking maybe they were latex because I've read stories of people over inflating to allow for the decrease over night 

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2 hours ago, Limited said:

Do people still pump their tyres up to the max pressure? Can’t imagine the change in temp having more than 5-10psi difference. 

I only run my tyres about 85-90 psi range. Pump them up a little extra overnight to account for any leakage. But I’ve only had to check my bike in overnight once. But normally pump them the night before so one less thing to worry about 

Absolutely agree. 

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Your going to have a great race. You sound prepared, and have a plan.

Always bring some extra elastic bands in your bag race morning if your planning on having your shoes already clicked in. It's great karma to help those around you if you can. I also bring zip ties and cloth tape just in case.  Don't be too cool to smile at people, say good morning to every one around you. Everyone will be a little skitzed out. Just be friendly and relaxed. Tell people your nervous if asked. You'd be surprised with how many people will agree with you, then you can both laugh together.

Get down to the water, chuck your wettie on 30mins before the race, go for a swim, adjust the suit, then get back in and swim again. Do this a few times to get your wettie on properly. Then line up, take the swim at a relaxed, but firm pace, keep it long, not thrashy. Then settle into a nice long comfortable stroke.

Just keep reminding yourself to relax. Let the race come to you.

I'd love to hear how you get on post event.

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10 hours ago, more said:

O.K some more questions-so I'm guessing the day before you check you bike in and then the day of the race you have access to go in, pump your tyres, lay all your gear out etc yeah.

So what else do I need to think about-here's my outline so far

-get dressed in trisuit at home with wettie, goggles and all the other stuff in my gear bag

-get there about 5:45 and check in, pump tyres and lay out sneakers, sunnies, towel etc

-Get changed out trackies etc and put wettie on, check in gear bag

-pace around nervously for the next 30 mins

Sound like a plan?

I like to allow for 3 or so nervous trips to the toilets, as well. 😁

Are you staying nearby? If it's all nice and close I like to go back to my accom between transition set up and race start, if there's time. That way I can leave all my other stuff like goggles etc and get into my tri suit then. Mooloolaba is great for this option, but not all races are.

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3 hours ago, Paul Every said:

 

 

Or you could all just relax and enjoy yourselves. B)

Less stress helps me enjoy things heaps more 🙂

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20 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

Less stress helps me enjoy things heaps more 🙂

For sure.

Though in the three responses I quoted, nerves were mentioned five times. That's not the most reassuring for someone looking for advice.

It's just a triathlon. Relax, enjoy and have fun.

 

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42 minutes ago, Paul Every said:

For sure.

Though in the three responses I quoted, nerves were mentioned five times. That's not the most reassuring for someone looking for advice.

It's just a triathlon. Relax, enjoy and have fun.

 

Wow.  So simple, I'll give it a try next time 😉

 

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Race without nerves = boring or is actually a training session.

Enjoy the nerves, it's exciting. 👍🏻😅

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I've always explained to people that I work with that their nerves are their body's way of being prepared for something extraordinary that they are about to accomplish. Essentially, if they aren't nervous, they either aren't mentally prepared for it or aren't giving the event enough credit.

Feel the nerves, acknowledge them, appreciate their presence and tear shit up.

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12 minutes ago, BNothling said:

I've always explained to people that I work with that their nerves are their body's way of being prepared for something extraordinary that they are about to accomplish. Essentially, if they aren't nervous, they either aren't mentally prepared for it or aren't giving the event enough credit.

Feel the nerves, acknowledge them, appreciate their presence and tear shit up.

I've heard Macca and Crowie say exactly this.  Are you Crowie?

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

I've heard Macca and Crowie say exactly this.  Are you Crowie?

Haha, nope. I wish I had 10% of their ability though? 

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

I've heard Macca and Crowie say exactly this.  Are you Crowie?

You didn't ask if he was Macca?

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3 minutes ago, goughy said:

You didn't ask if he was Macca?

I am also not Macca, or Jan Frodeno, or the Patron Saint of SlowTwitch Lionel Sanders.

Just a 30 year old age grouper from Brisbane trying to be somewhat acceptable at a sport before the twins are born in June and it all goes to custard 😄

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2 hours ago, goughy said:

You didn't ask if he was Macca?

Macca posts on here as CJmacca so I knew it wasn't him.

We all know macca didn't have 9 different accounts back in the day.

Edited by Peter

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That's true....

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So - Question - Who actually is racing on Sunday, Numbers are out

http://ap.ironman.com/triathlon/events/asiapac/ironman-70.3/geelong/athletes/athlete-list.aspx#axzz5fBGBCZTa

CapeHorn #643

 

And the numbering system seems a bit strange. AWA Gold from #150, AWA Silver from #200, AWA Bronze from #300, and then in order of last name from there up (mostly) but 100-150 are something else?

(apparently rego still open until Wednesday for anyone who wants a long training day this weekend.)

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On 09/01/2019 at 8:27 AM, IronJimbo said:

Went straight from sprint distance to half IM with bugger all training and even less knowledge of nutrition etc, in 37 degree heat and 80% humidity.  Still finished though 

You'll be fine 

Yeah me too (HoW in 2007).

Nutrition was my biggest error - not enough carbs on bike and run.  I really hadn't tested it at all, just had half a Power Bar squashed onto my top-tube.  Only race where I've ever resorted to Coke on the run.  Also tried the gummie bear things on the run, but I was too goooorne, couldn't chew/swallow them.

Later races I worked out which gels I liked & how many etc.  And to take them with sips of water.

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Same with me.  My best half is still my first one where I had absolutely no clue and new it!  As soon as I gathered even the remotest clue, it's been stuff up City!  A little knowledge, even the tiniest bit, can be a dangerous thing.  Especially when it's wrong ;)

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