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Pete

Shimano 11 speed 11-32 on standard cage? help!

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Hey everyone, a pretty specific group set question - I hope you can help me.

Currently running 11 speed ultegra (mechanical not DI2) on a Giant TCR with a standard compact crank (50/34) and a 11-28 cassette.

I have been told that I can go up to the 11-32 cassette without having to change the rear derailleur - is this correct?

Otherwise I have been told that I would need a long-cage derailleur. I have also been told that with Ultegra you can, and with DuraAce you can't. 

Also, is there any practical reason why I wouldn't choose the 105 cassette over the  Ultegra (they both come in 11-32).  I only want to use it for one (big) ride that has lotsa steep climbs.

Also, what's the chance of it all being done without having to change the chain length? 

If all of the above comes out as "No you can't" can I repeat it all again with the 11-30 teeth cassette (these are also available in 105).

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Negative. 28 tooth is biggest for short cage. You need a medium cage rear derailleur. 

The yktegra cassette is quieter. I only use 105 cassette and KNC chain. More cost effective. 

You'll need extra chain length. Not possible without. 

No. 28 tooth is the biggest on short cage.  Chain won't be long enough if coming from 25 or 28. 

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Thanks for that Will - all starting to make sense now.  Before I get too carried away I will double check the cage on my existing derailleur (jockey wheel center to center) to see if I don't already have a medium.  If I don't I might invest in some ultegra/105 stuff and see if I can get it delivered and fitted before the big ride.  Most of the big on-line stores are showing "out of stock" :( 

Otherwise I'll have no alternative than to just drop weight and get fitter....

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I have two road bikes that are both set up the same way - compact crank, 11-32 cassette and Dura Ace 9100 rear derailleur.  The 9100 rear derailleur is designed for a 30 tooth cassette and comes standard with a longer than normal cage but I have found that with the compact crank, there is no difficulty in running a 32 tooth cassette.  Naturally, you will need to adjust chain length accordingly.  And I mix Shimano gear levers and RD with SRAM cassette.

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Rear cassette size is less important than the total take-up required.  Take-up = (large ring - small ring) + (large cog - small cog)

With this set-up you have (50-34)+(32-11)=37 tooth, this is right on the maximum for a medium cage (GS) Shimano but should be okay.

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Don't know about 11 speed, but in 10 speed the ultegra derailleurs which could handle 30t had "30t"  marked on them. Before that 28 was the max. I read a lot of threads as to whether 32 was possible and it boiled down to try it and see as one factor was hanger design and bolt position. Main potential issues were shifting chain capacity and rear derailleur top cog not clearing biggest sprocket.  Seems story is similar story with 11 speed. Worked for Jon, and probably does for most.  But seems is still outside spec.

 

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Mrs Ip runs a 30 on ultegra di2 50-34 front 

no problem at all 

I have a 32 I am thinking on putting on for the 320k alpine classicride in a few weeks for her , I’m almost certain it will work as there is a fair bit of adjustment left

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On 08/01/2019 at 7:54 PM, ironpo said:

Mrs Ip runs a 30 on ultegra di2 50-34 front 

no problem at all 

I have a 32 I am thinking on putting on for the 320k alpine classicride in a few weeks for her , I’m almost certain it will work as there is a fair bit of adjustment left

 

320?! That's impressive!  I am doing the 250 and it is the thought of the back'o'falls grind (and maybe that last climb on Hotham before the village) that has got me thinking 32 for the back.  

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11 hours ago, Pete said:

 

320?! That's impressive!  I am doing the 250 and it is the thought of the back'o'falls grind (and maybe that last climb on Hotham before the village) that has got me thinking 32 for the back.  

Mate 

u won’t need the 32 , mrs Ip does the 250 pretty easy with a 28 , (she is female obviously and is 60)

have gone the 30 for her just cause we gotta do buffalo first and it is really a just A get out of jail card just in case 

 

I’m running a 42 rear but I’m super soft 

 

 

 

A461DE65-F778-4239-9CEC-99C7D354B86F.jpeg

Edited by ironpo

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14 hours ago, ironpo said:

 u won’t need the 32 , mrs Ip does the 250 pretty easy with a 28 , (she is female obviously and is 60)

 

If the subtext to that is "You're a complete woos and if you can't do it on a 28 you should be ashamed of yourself and shouldn't even be there!!" then I have to plead "guilty as charged" .... :)

I measured my jockey to jockey distance on my derailleur and it looked about 65mm whereas all my other bikes seemed to have about 50mm jockey to jockey - so I am assuming that the Ultegra is either the "medium" or the "long" cage but not the short.  On the strength of that I have ordered a new 32 cassette (albeit a 105) and will fit it next week. :)

Now, if only I could stop eating junk food..... :(

 

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Just wind the B screw in as far as it will go, add some links to the chain. I've done it with di2 ultegra short cage. Other tip would be to get a wolf tooth hanger extender. They cost about 30 bucks

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1 hour ago, Pete said:

If the subtext to that is "You're a complete woos and if you can't do it on a 28 you should be ashamed of yourself and shouldn't even be there!!" then I have to plead "guilty as charged" .... :)

I measured my jockey to jockey distance on my derailleur and it looked about 65mm whereas all my other bikes seemed to have about 50mm jockey to jockey - so I am assuming that the Ultegra is either the "medium" or the "long" cage but not the short.  On the strength of that I have ordered a new 32 cassette (albeit a 105) and will fit it next week. :)

Now, if only I could stop eating junk food..... :(

 

No mate 

 no subtext , just giving you kudos and tell you that it’s not that hard 

As you mentioned the bit past the dimantena on Hotham is the hardest bit of the ride 

 

I think the ultegra derailer is allways a bit longer for some reason so seems to give us more room to fit bigger cassettes 

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Quote

Otherwise I'll have no alternative than to just drop weight and get fitter...

Sounds like a plan 😂

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I recently put a 32T rear cog on a TCR with standard Ultegra cage, but with the mid-compact chainrings. Wound the B sceww in and Have had no issues, although I’m mindful not to run big rear cog and large chainring.

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So, the doorbell rang and the funny Australia Post man gave me my much awaited package.....

It wasn't long and I found my answer - 

Yes it does (admittedly it wasn't a short cage as I first thought but a medium or long (65 mm jockey wheel centers)

And no mods to the chain or the derailleur - even on the Big Front sprocket (50 tooth) and the new Big Rear Cog (32) - and even though it changes up OK it looks decidedly uncomfortable and I will try and avoid doing this!  Thanks for your help everyone! :)

I thought I was being a cheapskate by "downgrading" to a 105 cassette until I realized the original 11-28 was 105 too...

169izwh.jpg

 

 

  

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Well done 

as you said I’d be trying to avoid the big cog to big cog 

 

hows training going 

mrs is and myself did , buffalo (dingo dell) 

hotham

then back up buffalo (dingo dell) on Saturday 

more Ks (243k) (the 250 is only 237k) and more climbing than the 250 (4500m)  , she got a bit dehydrated,in the 39deg heat  on the last climb but after a biddon of arwsome mt buffalo water (from a water fall) she was back into it  and came back strong for the ride back down to home 

we will be close to the cut off for the 320k but if all goes ok we should have 30-60 mins up our sleeve 

 

9371ACA8-78D8-4936-A9CD-CFA9385DF1A5.jpeg

Edited by ironpo
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Better hope it cools down a bit next week 

45deg today 47 tommorow , hasn’t been under 38 for ten days 

 

I think the audax heat policy is no 200 250 or 320 if the temp gets abouve 36degs

funnie thing is they bought this in 10 years ago and never had to implement it , just pure luck as our average temp here over all of summer is over 37 deg s 

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I remember the year they couldn't use the roads due to access for fire vehicles  so the 250 become 3 laps of an extended Bright-Buffalo return.  To this day I still reckon it's the hardest thing I've done - going out for lap three of same old same old in the heat was very mentally challenging.

Training OK'ish - tested the 32 out on some 10%+ gradients on Mt Macedon yesterday, racking up 1,700 vertical meters in only 72km - the 32 helps but it's not a panacea for all my climbing problems.  it's going to be a long day....

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Looks like mrs IP is out due to a medical issue 

such a shame with all the training she has put in 

I can transfer her entery in the 320 to you if you want , and you can tag along with the idiot on the fatbike 

Edited by ironpo

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21 hours ago, ironpo said:

How’d u go mate 

 

err.... not great. was one of the last through but at least I finished. Had two punctures before I got to Hotham and trying to fix them in the dark with driving rain was not fun....

Lucky I brought a rain jacket (most of my mates did not!) as the top of Hotham was freezing cold with huge icy winds blowing everyone about.  

Then another puncture about 10 clicks out of Omeo - I think my tyres (brand new Vittorias) were like a magnet for small sharp thing :(

Couldn't have been wetter if you poured a bucket of water over my head, and the wet chamois in the nicks was cutting me to pieces.

Back of falls was long and unrelenting - jeez that's a mental challenge! Nothing left in my legs for Tawonga so I just used the new (and very much appreciated) 32 granny gear and took it 1 meter at a time.

It was looking like I was not going to make the cut-off so did a cracker of a descent into German town and tried to keep the speed up all the way back into Bright. 

It was getting dark at this stage and the front light was flat so i felt like it was going to be a quiet affair as i thought they'd be packing up the finish line by this stage.  How wrong could I be?! Even as far out as Wandy there were people on the side of the road clapping and cheering me on.  By the time I got to the caravan park I had a big smile on my face and the crowds on Gavin and into the finish were just amazing.  

Straight to the bar for my free beer (I chose a porta with a dash of lemonade) and a finisher photo with the rest of the team (who had all returned and showered by this stage but wrapped they came to see me in.

Will I do it again next year? I think I probably will... :)

ACE.jpg

Edited by Pete
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Nice work 

yes it wasn’t great weather considering the heat in the two weeks leading in 

coulnt believe how many didn’t have any rain or warm gear 

I must of passed u at some time , surely u noticed the dickhead doing the 320k on a fatbike

was a big day but got home in 14-56 about an hr faster than I thought I’d do it on the fatty 

me and mrs IP at finish 

D0378B01-D115-410F-915F-2679B18AB5A5.jpeg

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Hotham weather and road condition . I’m amazed you made it on vittorias 

6F805273-9032-4987-BBE1-E8F8F8337DCC.jpeg

B7C488D0-9835-4D8D-B54F-BC43068B508F.jpeg

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Back of falls never gets any easier , espually with the head wind over the top this year wascarnage 

E09B15D6-88D0-472B-87A6-649BBCED2E03.jpeg

708B0BBB-B079-4361-850A-CCB166F93A29.jpeg

D3056E93-0E38-4BC0-B212-50DC1E1621DA.jpeg

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5 hours ago, ironpo said:

Nice work 

yes it wasn’t great weather considering the heat in the two weeks leading in 

coulnt believe how many didn’t have any rain or warm gear 

I must of passed u at some time , surely u noticed the dickhead doing the 320k on a fatbike

was a big day but got home in 14-56 about an hr faster than I thought I’d do it on the fatty 

me and mrs IP at finish 

 

Yes, I remember you going past me - I only ever saw one fat bike and I remember the kit -  I think at the back of falls maybe and was quite surprised to see you. Looked awesome I thought at the time how great you were doing you were really moving!

 Matty was there somewhere on the 250 but he was up at the pointy end of the field - one of the first back, I think. 

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Haha

only one idiot on a fat bike for sure

so that was me 

yes I seen Matty up here over X mass training , flying up the hills as usual 

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On 28/01/2019 at 8:29 AM, ironpo said:

How’d u go mate 

 

Was this post ever about how Pete went or  just a troll so u could tell everyone how u finished it on a fatbike? 

 

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On 08/01/2019 at 1:47 AM, Pete said:

Currently running 11 speed ultegra (mechanical not DI2) on a Giant TCR with a standard compact crank (50/34) and a 11-28 cassette.

With compacts, the 11-28 was more gearing than you ever needed. All you did was cause yourself stress and spend unnecessary money in the days before the ride. I have no idea why people have an aversion to simply using their god given strength to get up those hills. You're a big guy Pete. Put it on a decent gear, lower your cadence and use your strength. Who the hell can 'spin' up a 12% climb besides the 60kg 'birds' of our sport.

Next year put some bulletproof Gatorskins on your bike with some liquid latex inside the tubes, get organised and man-up.

 

Matty came second overall in the 250 BTW. Can't imaging he had a 32 on his cassette!

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It's funny you say that TC!  A few years ago my roadie only had standards with a 25 on the back.  Now they're compacts with a 26.  And one of the regular rides my group does, when I've done it recently I can't fathom how I ever got up it before, but I just did.  I've become a wuss.

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4 minutes ago, goughy said:

And one of the regular rides my group does, when I've done it recently I can't fathom how I ever got up it before, but I just did.  I've become a wuss.

We all have. 30 years ago the small chain-ring was 42. The large sprocket on the normal cluster was 19, and the climbing cluster had a 21. 

I still have no idea how we used to ride some of those hills.

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