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Peter

Coaches are amusing

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There are been a group of athletes slowly migrate from one coach to another in Melbourne over the last 6 month as the existing ones see the improvements of the ones that were first to leave. 

The coach losing them isn’t helping their cause by bad mouthing everyone that has left. 

I find it amusing because the ones that stayed are now seeing their coach act like a farkwit. 

its amusing and pretty much dumb. 

Anyway I’m not coached by either just sitting on the fence watching. 

I suppose this happens in workplaces and with other sports and coaches. 

ive just never seen it up close. 

Edited by Peter

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The Melbourne tri coach market is pretty saturated and competitive and I imagine everyone is working hard to get their share oft he market.

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2 hours ago, Gilliga said:

The Melbourne tri coach market is pretty saturated and competitive and I imagine everyone is working hard to get their share oft he market.

It's a bit like that in Brisbane - there are coaches coming out of the cracks in the woodwork like cockroaches - seriously, some of them have no experience, you really have to wonder who they could inspire or be able to direct anyone's development  - I think often they start out as a bunch of mates who train together and one takes the lead 🙄  

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24 minutes ago, AP said:

It's a bit like that in Brisbane - there are coaches coming out of the cracks in the woodwork like cockroaches - seriously, some of them have no experience, you really have to wonder who they could inspire or be able to direct anyone's development  - I think often they start out as a bunch of mates who train together and one takes the lead 🙄  

so where did you come from and how did you start? 

Everyone starts somewhere and over time some develop and do well and the others, well die off and go to oblivian

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Look as everyone knows I rarely agree with AP but there are so many coaches now that are a great athlete and go, lets make some cash.

But I think a good coach is someone that has the athletes best interest at heart.

That means maybe when running a swim session,  THEY DON'T ACTUALLY SWIM.

When running a track/running session, THEY DON'T ACTUALLY RUN.

THEY COACH. Talk to their athletes.  What them.  Make suggestions if needed.

There are too many coaches that basically become a coach so they can get people to do sessions with.

I think it's one of the reason why EX PROS are rubbish coaches.  They have been selfish for many years and then have to give EVERYTHING to their athletes.  It's a total 100% mind change.  And they can't do it.

I also think having an ONLINE coach is dumb. Someone online can't see that maybe your stride is wrong. Your seats too low.  You aren't putting in the effort you need. You hand entry is shit. etc...

 

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53 minutes ago, willie said:

so where did you come from and how did you start? 

Everyone starts somewhere and over time some develop and do well and the others, well die off and go to oblivian

Far from defending AP, but I think to start a coach should coach under another coach.

You don't become a bricklayer without learning from someone. etc...

Coaches are the same.

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42 minutes ago, Peter said:

I also think having an ONLINE coach is dumb. Someone online can't see that maybe your stride is wrong. Your seats too low.  You aren't putting in the effort you need. You hand entry is shit. etc..

You can have an online fitness trainer, but yeah, a coach should be working on your technique as well as your fitness.

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I once had a tri coach who rode with us but we had to wait for him to catch up all the time on group rides, that did amuse me at the time. He was however a great swim coach and took me from a last 10% out of the water gumby breaststroker to a 53 IM swim leg. Even stuck with him when I switched from tri's to surf.

I use to like the way Col Stewart coached by motor pacing his riders.

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2 hours ago, AP said:

It's a bit like that in Brisbane - there are coaches coming out of the cracks in the woodwork like cockroaches - seriously, some of them have no experience, you really have to wonder who they could inspire or be able to direct anyone's development  - I think often they start out as a bunch of mates who train together and one takes the lead 🙄  

AP,

The bunch of mates theory was probably the case up to about 5 years ago and may still happen. What we've seen a lot of in recent years, are graduates from the sports science programs at various universities entering the sport as "a triathlon coach." They offer programs based on scientific testing and very little experience in the three disciplines of triathlon. If these people spent a day with long time triathlon coaches like yourself, Grant Giles, Col Stewart or Sutto; they would soon realise how much they DONT know. Most of them are gone from the sport within 3 years.

I often wonder when these new guys dissapear within 3 to 4 years whether it's because athletes came, saw and left or whether as a coach they caused an injury (s) to one or more athletes who claimed against the coaches insurance cover and the coach ended up not being able to get insurance coverage, thus losing their accreditation. No one ever speaks about that! It's always some other reason they finished coaching.

 

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2 hours ago, Mike Del said:

I once had a tri coach who rode with us but we had to wait for him to catch up all the time on group rides, that did amuse me at the time. He was however a great swim coach and took me from a last 10% out of the water gumby breaststroker to a 53 IM swim leg. Even stuck with him when I switched from tri's to surf.

I use to like the way Col Stewart coached by motor pacing his riders.

I went to both of the coaches you're referring to here, and I have to say, the guy who didn't train with you, but trained you, was by far the better. Col was also a great running coach as well, working hard on your technique.

Gavin was a good swim coach though.

The other thing I liked about Col in retrospect was that he used to have a future World Champion sitting behind him on the motorbike giving you lip if he thought you were slacking off. That's if he beat his Dad to it. :)

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen

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I've been coached by 2 different coaches a third for a month and then done my own thing for the past 3 months.

 

I've talked to a Lot of athletes and it seems most have the same complaints.  Generally not listening or communicating with their athletes well and not having the same goals.

 

I wonder how many of these new coaches give up as they coach on top of a full time job and the effort is too great.

 

How many full time coaches would there be in Australia making a decent wage?

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Looks like the 'blessed one' has a Trisutto coach now. A coach being coached while coaching doesn't give you much faith in her own coaching ability. And nothing stopping her on-selling her coach's training plans.

 

Edit to say, I also see the 'blessed one' tip-toing around in Wyn Republic kit. I was gonna get some but now I'm not so sure 😖

Edited by The Customer

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1 hour ago, The Customer said:

A coach being coached while coaching doesn't give you much faith in her own coaching ability.

I would disagree with this and would (genuinely) be interested in understanding your reasoning... I have no experience in sports coaching but at work I coach people and am myself coached by both my boss and an external person... Isn't a big part of the value in a coach having somebody who sits outside your head and gives you that different perspective as well as the rest of it? 

Edited by monkie
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Having been in the situation of trying to coach a squad whilst also trying to fit your own training in, I can say that if I had attempted to follow the personal training plan of an external coach, I would not have had the time to fit it into the day. What I had to do was write an overall plan for the whole squad with the core sessions done as a group. I made adjustments in volume, intensity and frequency to suit the individual. With the shorter sessions, such as swim and turbo, I was on deck and usually did my private session directly before the group session. I did my long rides with the group. Outside of the active training sessions I was at my desk or sleeping due to the early 5am starts (in order to get my swim in before my group came in to swim) and the late nights (would be leaving evening turbo and run session at 10pm to go home for dinner).

If you're just writing programmes for people and emailing them out, then yeah, I would seriously consider having an external coach just to take the emotional stress out of writing your own programme too as you tend to put yourself last when you feel responsible for providing programmes for others.

Edited by The Customer
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Its interesting the different opinions on what sort of coaching/coaching is required.  

This is probably why so many people jump around?

TC I wouldn't let anyone on social media influence you good or bad on what kit to buy...if you want feedback on the Wynn stuff shoot me a pm.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, monkie said:

I would disagree with this and would (genuinely) be interested in understanding your reasoning... I have no experience in sports coaching but at work I coach people and am myself coached by both my boss and an external person... Isn't a big part of the value in a coach having somebody who sits outside your head and gives you that different perspective as well as the rest of it? 

Monkie, agree with your point. I've spent a lot of my workplace career in vocational training and the main theme has been, "everyone needs a mentor." When I did my level 1 triathlon coaches course in 1994 in Brisbane, the first three presenters, Alan Voss, Brendan Terry and Col Stewart; all made that same point.

understanding the difference between the point TC makes about a coach who is coached and a coach who is mentored, is the key. If you look at the good coaches in the sport, most have or have had a reputable mentor. As an example, People like Sutto and John Hellimans have and continue to mentor a group of coaches worldwide. It's not by chance that both are selective in who they mentor. 

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32 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

TC I wouldn't let anyone on social media influence you good or bad on what kit to buy...if you want feedback on the Wynn stuff shoot me a pm.

:confused:

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Why don't they just go to the coach with the most Kona Qualifiers?

Some coaches remind me of Donald Trump & Anthony Mundine. Sure they have done some good things and acheived a lot in their lives. But they are arrogant wankers.

 

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Not everyone needs a coach.  I suspect AP never had a coach and learnt all he knows by observation, trial and error and great self discipline.

 

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4 hours ago, roxii said:

:confused:

what I was trying to get at is rather than relying on who wears what on social media it might be a good idea to contact people who do use the product and ask.  I wear their gear and happily pay for it.  I forked out $300 for a cycle kit of theirs at the expo in Busselton.

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13 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

what I was trying to get at is rather than relying on who wears what on social media it might be a good idea to contact people who do use the product and ask.  I wear their gear and happily pay for it.  I forked out $300 for a cycle kit of theirs at the expo in Busselton.

I know but it was the irony of it.  

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12 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

what I was trying to get at is rather than relying on who wears what on social media it might be a good idea to contact people who do use the product and ask.  I wear their gear and happily pay for it.  I forked out $300 for a cycle kit of theirs at the expo in Busselton.

Serious question - is it worth the difference between the $300 Wynn kit and say a feen kit or even Dhb that I can buy for Approx $150 - $180?  $300 in my eyes is a lot of moolah to fork out to go ride my bike.  Is the quality really that much better?

i bought a Wynn trucker hat....looks good backwards on me.  Was happy to pay the $26

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2 minutes ago, KieranR said:

Serious question - is it worth the difference between the $300 Wynn kit and say a feen kit or even Dhb that I can buy for Approx $150 - $180?  $300 in my eyes is a lot of moolah to fork out to go ride my bike.  Is the quality really that much better?

i bought a Wynn trucker hat....looks good backwards on me.  Was happy to pay the $26

I think the real answer is "maybe". 

Some great kits may not fit you right, some cheap kits might. 

These days there is more marketing than technology in most tri/ cycle clothing. 

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4 minutes ago, roxii said:

I think the real answer is "maybe". 

Some great kits may not fit you right, some cheap kits might. 

These days there is more marketing than technology in most tri/ cycle clothing. 

Roxii has got it.
2 things for me 

How does it fit?
How does it look?

I bought the "team" kit last year and wasn't a big fan due to a design error in the team gear in leg length.

I waited to the expo to try on the kit before outlaying $300 cause I am the same, it's a lot of coin.

 

Tru suit on the other hand I was always massive fan of, though the pockets took a little to get used to I do now like the design of them as well.

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40 minutes ago, KieranR said:

Serious question - is it worth the difference between the $300 Wynn kit and say a feen kit or even Dhb that I can buy for Approx $150 - $180?  $300 in my eyes is a lot of moolah to fork out to go ride my bike.  Is the quality really that much better? 

i bought a Wynn trucker hat....looks good backwards on me.  Was happy to pay the $26

It doesn't. 

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34 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

Roxii has got it.
2 things for me 

How does it fit?
How does it look?

I bought the "team" kit last year and wasn't a big fan due to a design error in the team gear in leg length.

I waited to the expo to try on the kit before outlaying $300 cause I am the same, it's a lot of coin.

 

Tru suit on the other hand I was always massive fan of, though the pockets took a little to get used to I do now like the design of them as well.

G'Dam and here I was thinking I was living large paying $180 for a Scody Trisuit the other day!!! No freaking way Id pay $300...

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47 minutes ago, KieranR said:

Serious question - is it worth the difference between the $300 Wynn kit and say a feen kit or even Dhb that I can buy for Approx $150 - $180?  $300 in my eyes is a lot of moolah to fork out to go ride my bike.  Is the quality really that much better?

Mate, ostarine isn't cheap you know.

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2 minutes ago, more said:

G'Dam and here I was thinking I was living large paying $180 for a Scody Trisuit the other day!!! No freaking way Id pay $300...

I used to wear scody, unless you bought on a run out sale the comparable suit is also $300 at scody.

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23 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

I used to wear scody, unless you bought on a run out sale the comparable suit is also $300 at scody.

yeah it was a black Friday sale, still I thought $180 was a hell of a lot for some bloody lycra lol

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20 minutes ago, more said:

yeah it was a black Friday sale, still I thought $180 was a hell of a lot for some bloody lycra lol

I had a one of suit made from them for Kona, wholly fark they hit me for that...~ $800...

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My mate paid in that sort of vicinity for a custom suit from scody too. He wasn't going to Kona though!

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Quote

Having been in the situation of trying to coach a squad whilst also trying to fit your own training in, I can say that if I had attempted to follow the personal training plan of an external coach, I would not have had the time to fit it into the day. What I had to do was write an overall plan for the whole squad with the core sessions done as a group. I made adjustments in volume, intensity and frequency to suit the individual. With the shorter sessions, such as swim and turbo, I was on deck and usually did my private session directly before the group session. I did my long rides with the group. Outside of the active training sessions I was at my desk or sleeping due to the early 5am starts (in order to get my swim in before my group came in to swim) 

That's basically how I work my program - coach on pool deck - coach turbo sessions - do long rides with the squad members of similar level while the faster guys go ahead - do track sessions helping the developing athletes while the faster, more developed ones do a tougher session - we do track sessions (400m and 1,000m) on an out and back track so I can keep an eye on everyone at some time and advise where necessary  

Quote

Not everyone needs a coach.  I suspect AP never had a coach and learnt all he knows by observation, trial and error and great self discipline.

I've had several coaches and mentors over the years - where I am is the culmination of all their input and years of trial and error 😉

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7 hours ago, roxii said:

I think the real answer is "maybe". 

Some great kits may not fit you right, some cheap kits might. 

These days there is more marketing than technology in most tri/ cycle clothing. 

I just like the pretty colours

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11 hours ago, The Customer said:

I just like the pretty colours

And barbie toes?

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