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Sad news from Noosa Tri

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A competitor has died after collapsing at Noosa on the weekend. Son of Ann Palmer who is very well known in the triathlon community. 

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Sam Horan from Brisbane, 

#592 in Clydesdale (90-99) cat, swam 25:40 then DNF after a heart attack on the bike leg.

Battled on for a week at SCUH before losing his fight on Friday when life support was turned off..

No News from IM

 

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Unfortunately it happens... endurance sports can bring on cardiac incidents. For some events it can actually be the best place for it to happen... I know that the treatment you get if you arrest at the London Marathon finish line is significantly better than you would get anywhere else except in an ITU (i.e. immediate CPR, defibrillation within 60 seconds and advanced care within 3 minutes, I know we've measured it for real a couple of times) but out on a bike leg it's much harder to ensure the chain of survival remains intact. That said, even with a perfect chain survival of out of hospital arrest is rare. I don't know exactly what happened here whether it was a heart attack or an arrest (the two terms are often conflated) but I'm sure everybody involved did their best in what are tricky circumstances. The best that can be said is that Sam died doing a thing that he clearly loved. RIP.

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I don't follow rugby but is Sam Horan a name I have seen connected to rugby ?

 

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7 minutes ago, AP said:

I don't follow rugby but is Sam Horan a name I have seen connected to rugby ?

 

Tim Horan...?

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1 hour ago, AP said:

I don't follow rugby but is Sam Horan a name I have seen connected to rugby ?

 

Yeh that would be Tim.

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On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 5:49 PM, monkie said:

Unfortunately it happens... endurance sports can bring on cardiac incidents. For some events it can actually be the best place for it to happen... I know that the treatment you get if you arrest at the London Marathon finish line is significantly better than you would get anywhere else except in an ITU (i.e. immediate CPR, defibrillation within 60 seconds and advanced care within 3 minutes, I know we've measured it for real a couple of times) but out on a bike leg it's much harder to ensure the chain of survival remains intact. That said, even with a perfect chain survival of out of hospital arrest is rare. I don't know exactly what happened here whether it was a heart attack or an arrest (the two terms are often conflated) but I'm sure everybody involved did their best in what are tricky circumstances. The best that can be said is that Sam died doing a thing that he clearly loved. RIP.

Absolutely right.  This years' club champs springs to mind, there were quit a few people afterwards noting how lucky Brucie was that he was right near the finish line and not on the bike leg

 

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This is still piss poor from TA. Stumping up 10k for a funeral would have been the right thing to do. 

On another matter, if you think the insurance TA offer is worthwhile, you are one absolutely deluded person. 

TA insurance is next to useless. 

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18 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

What does TA have to do with it?

I'd have thought etc or whoever runs noosa would be more deserving of a letter..

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31 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

What does TA have to do with it?

They have done the insurance deal. 

They also have accepted membership fees from a family for over 30 years. 

They also should just do the right thing by a person that died in one of their sanctioned events. 

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6 minutes ago, Peter said:

They have done the insurance deal. 

They also have accepted membership fees from a family for over 30 years. 

They also should just do the right thing by a person that died in one of their sanctioned events. 

I'll just say I disagree this is TA issue.  Sad but also life.

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27 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

I'll just say I disagree this is TA issue.  Sad but also life.

Yep, agree Brett.  

TA sanction and insure the event, and Ironman Oceania run it, and it would be nice to think the 2 could have done something to help out of goodwill.

But neither hold any power when it comes to insurance payouts, let alone Miles Stewart personally.

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I agree it's not a TA issue. 

Should only be responsible for something that happened ONLY as a result of the race. 

A heart thing, while sad, isnt purely a result of the event per see. 

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29 minutes ago, Turts said:

I agree it's not a TA issue. 

Should only be responsible for something that happened ONLY as a result of the race. 

A heart thing, while sad, isnt purely a result of the event per see. 

Yep. As Miles has said it’s probably the same as most sports insurance offered. Sad but that’s the way it is. 

Woud set a precedent if they offered to pay out of MEMBERS funds. 

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3 hours ago, Peter said:

This is still piss poor from TA. Stumping up 10k for a funeral would have been the right thing to do. 

Yeh get f*cked. If that happened in two years time you would have forgotten about this guys death and you'd be complaining about ta losing members cause membership is too expensive.

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12 hours ago, roxii said:

Yep. As Miles has said it’s probably the same as most sports insurance offered. Sad but that’s the way it is. 

Woud set a precedent if they offered to pay out of MEMBERS funds. 

Whilst I have sympathy for the family, a question we all need to ask ourselves is how many of us have actually read the insurance policy and understand it? Roxii is spot on, this may set a precedent and we would all whinge about payments outside the membership guidelines.

How many people are in business to "give" money away outside the T&C?

Again I need to stress, I have sympathy for the family, these comments are directly aimed at the "business" of TA and the insurers

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And we need to remember, insurance companies don't go out of their way to find a way to pay, they go out of their way to find a way to not pay!  They hope on people just giving up the fight.  Not saying any of this is right or wrong - just the way it is.

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I agree that TA should not have paid for the funeral if it is not covered by insurance. However I think that TA and IM should have a handled this better. A personal phone call from TA or IM could have explained the situation better than a 3 line email.

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I used to be a bit lax about reading insurance documents.  We have an agent who looks after all our business insurances and it was easy.  Just told him what we wanted to be covered for and he found the best policies.  We always went through every one with him detailing what we were covered and not covered for.  On the home front however I just went for price until the floods in Brisbane a few years ago.  Reading in the papers about people who were denied coverage had me on the phone to our insurance company.  It must have been rather strange receiving a call about whether our policy covered us for bushfires in the midst of one of the biggest deluges in recent history 😂  Our house backs onto Mount Coot-tha.  The call center operator did ask me to repeat the question. 

In relation to the TA insurance policy, I had read the policy and didn't pick up the bit about illness vs accident.  In fact there is a question on the FAQ:

Am I covered in the event of death or other permanent injury?

Yes, the following lump sum payments are provided under the Triathlon Australia Personal Accident policy;

Death Members (aged 18 and over) $100,000
Death Members (aged under 18) $20,000
Quadriplegia / Paraplegia  $200,000
Capital Benefits $100,000

note: personal "accident" policy. 

Then again, I didn't join TA for the insurance policy as I've got other personal policies which cover me.   Unfortunately, the regular emails exhorting people to join TA always stress how you will be covered by their policy while training and racing. 

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16 hours ago, Peter said:

This is still piss poor from TA. Stumping up 10k for a funeral would have been the right thing to do. 

On another matter, if you think the insurance TA offer is worthwhile, you are one absolutely deluded person. 

TA insurance is next to useless. 

Agreed, one of our club members had an accident training last year (which the website says you are covered while training on a full membership). She was burned by their insurance pretty bad. As a consequence, she has not rejoined TA, but they are still racing, but only on ODMs. That's only one story I have heard, I am sure there are many more.

I have advised my +1 to not get TA membership until he starts racing longer and more often to offset the cost against not having to pay ODMs (it is a small cost for an enticer) and the club discounts we offer at racing (again enticer cost difference is minimal).

Edited by MissJess

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10 minutes ago, Cat Lady said:

I used to be a bit lax about reading insurance documents.  We have an agent who looks after all our business insurances and it was easy.  Just told him what we wanted to be covered for and he found the best policies.  We always went through every one with him detailing what we were covered and not covered for.  On the home front however I just went for price until the floods in Brisbane a few years ago.  Reading in the papers about people who were denied coverage had me on the phone to our insurance company.  It must have been rather strange receiving a call about whether our policy covered us for bushfires in the midst of one of the biggest deluges in recent history 😂  Our house backs onto Mount Coot-tha.  The call center operator did ask me to repeat the question. 

In relation to the TA insurance policy, I had read the policy and didn't pick up the bit about illness vs accident.  In fact there is a question on the FAQ:

Am I covered in the event of death or other permanent injury?

Yes, the following lump sum payments are provided under the Triathlon Australia Personal Accident policy;

Death Members (aged 18 and over) $100,000
Death Members (aged under 18) $20,000
Quadriplegia / Paraplegia  $200,000
Capital Benefits $100,000

note: personal "accident" policy. 

Then again, I didn't join TA for the insurance policy as I've got other personal policies which cover me.   Unfortunately, the regular emails exhorting people to join TA always stress how you will be covered by their policy while training and racing. 

I think the point is it covers you for death from an injuries in a race, eg a bad crash. In this case, he died from a heart attack. That's my simple understanding anyway.

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30 minutes ago, AA7 said:

I think the point is it covers you for death from an injuries in a race, eg a bad crash. In this case, he died from a heart attack. That's my simple understanding anyway.

Correct.   unfortunately in a world where people glance rather than read,  it is easy to interpret as "death" by any means. 

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I learnt the hard way about accident vs illness - not for me, but for my cat.  She swallowed something and had to get opened up to have it removed - that was listed under illness apparently, and not an accident.  Told the insurance company to F off after that...

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Remember folks, the job of an insurance COMPANY is to make a profit for its shareholders (of course in the long term this can be best achieved by having customers, and as they teach in MKT101 - it is cheaper to keep than to recruit)

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I don't bother with TA insurance because I already have cover elsewhere. Generally your private health will be better in almost all cases if you have mid range cover. 

I kinda see TA membership as good if you race enough and useless for guys like me racing once in a blue moon. 

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TA is virtually useless in every way - I figure our membership fees are there to pay Miles' wages and send a bunch of blazer wearing bludgers to world champs and Olympics - it's just a necessary evil - another drain on our income - same as most sporting organisations 😥

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7 minutes ago, AP said:

TA is virtually useless in every way - I figure our membership fees are there to pay Miles' wages and send a bunch of blazer wearing bludgers to world champs and Olympics - it's just a necessary evil - another drain on our income - same as most sporting organisations 😥

I hate it when I agree with you. 

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16 minutes ago, AP said:

TA is virtually useless in every way - I figure our membership fees are there to pay Miles' wages and send a bunch of blazer wearing bludgers to world champs and Olympics - it's just a necessary evil - another drain on our income - same as most sporting organisations 😥

TA make it very clear that member subs dont go towards age group Worlds. Thats why they charge a team contribution. 

They really pushed that point in a recent email. 

Elites on the other hand........ yep, thats what we fund. 

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This arrived in my inbox this morning. 

 

NOOSA LEGEND'S GIFT OF LIFE

The Noosa family, and the triathlon community, is in mourning with the passing of 45 year old Noosa Triathlon legend, Redcliffe triathlete and loving family man Sam Horan, whose story is one of immense passion, love and devotion, between mother and son, husband and wife, father and children and also a man and his sport.

The family migrated from Brighton in England when Sam was eight and settled in Redcliffe. One of four children, he was an only son and over the years he had a very special bond with his mother Ann, who recalled that his obsession with sport started at his tenth birthday at the local skating rink. The whole family enjoyed speed skating and were competitive in the sport.

Sam then developed a passion for cycling riding for Balmoral Cycling Club and then into triathlons. His first triathlon was the Tinman on Suttons Beach at Redcliffe, and he just became addicted as so many people do. Sam was 16 years old when he first competed in the Noosa triathlon and this year would have been his 15th Noosa Triathlon.

Triathlon means a lot to this family. Sam's mother Ann has competed in 25 Noosa triathlons and would have been competing with her son but for injuries following on from the Worlds at the Gold Coast in September. All Sam's siblings and his wife Michelle have competed at Noosa and one year there were six family members in the race at one time.

This year however things went terribly wrong. After completing the swim in excellent time Sam took off on the bike but only managed a few kilometres before he felt very unwell and subsequently suffered a major heart attack. Sam was taken to the Noosa Hospital and from there to Sunshine Coast University Hospital. He was on life support for one week but ultimately this was switched off. There was however one small light in all this. Sam was registered as an organ donor and his two kidneys were removed and two recipients were given a new chance at life. Ann is just as proud of her son in death as she was while he was alive, with Sam's previously unknown decision to register as an organ donor giving others the opportunity for a new life.

Sam was a psychologist and had worked in the area of child guidance, mental health and more recently with refugees on Manus, Nauru and Christmas Island.  He was devoted to his wife Michelle and his two daughters Tandia and Sakiyya. He brought joy and laughter to his family, always the fun guy.

His family and friends are all absolutely devastated by his loss, so unexpected and with Sam still so young. His funeral was a real celebration of his life.  A couple of hundred people attended followed by a great wake which for some extended until 1am. Sam was very popular and a bit of a lad, a risk taker, lots of fun and but also a wonderful family man. He was a people person and very much the fun guy at school. This was confirmed at the funeral when his mates related stories from their school days. Ann feels that she has not only lost a son but also a best friend. The support of the family, Sam's wife and two daughters, his three siblings and eight nephews and nieces has been invaluable. Sam's friends and members of the triathlon community have also made a big difference for them all.

The tradition of having at the very least one family member competing at Noosa will not be lost next year. Sam's nephew, 17 year old Max, will be flying the flag. Ann is very proud of him and although it will doubtless be a very emotional day, will be cheering him on too.

At the end of the day Sam's family can find solace in the fact that Sam has been able to give two individuals a new lease of life. They would also be delighted if, as a result of his death and this article, more people would register as organ donors. This can be done on line and takes a matter of minutes.

Sam was a loving husband, father, son, brother and friend to so many people. He brought laughter, wisdom and so much love to everyone he met. Sam will be sorely missed by us all.

 

Noel McMahon

Media Manager (Oceania)

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5 hours ago, Turts said:

TA make it very clear that member subs dont go towards age group Worlds. Thats why they charge a team contribution. 

They really pushed that point in a recent email. 

Elites on the other hand........ yep, thats what we fund. 

Off topic but:

HATE that term - call them professionals (and junior/wanna be professionals),

of course then it might be harder to justify using our money to send them somewhere that they can make money from.....

My 5c worth - drop the teams down to 5 per age group and charge no entry or team fees (let them pay for uniforms as different folks want different amounts of bling - but negotiate a price(maybe with endorsements)  that is below what it would cost to buy equivalent gear off the rack. Pretty sure most would not mind a subsidized a team of the best of their peers.

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Given the federal government has dropped funding to next to nothing for triathlon and dropped completely for other sports like table tennis and others, I think it’s time for Triathlon Australia to look after us age groupers and not the professionals. 

 

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5 hours ago, Turts said:

TA make it very clear that member subs dont go towards age group Worlds. Thats why they charge a team contribution. 

They really pushed that point in a recent email. 

Elites on the other hand........ yep, thats what we fund. 

Actually you are very wrong, the Australian Sport commission fund Elite athletes, not Triathlon Aus. The Sport commission also would be funding the high performance staff. Our memberships have nothing to do with the high performance programmes. 

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5 minutes ago, Trier said:

Actually you are very wrong, the Australian Sport commission fund Elite athletes, not Triathlon Aus. The Sport commission also would be funding the high performance staff. Our memberships have nothing to do with the high performance programmes. 

Well there ya go. 

Just looked and found this. 

 

Screenshot_20181210-190555_Drive.jpg

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29 minutes ago, Peter said:

Given the federal government has dropped funding to next to nothing for triathlon and dropped completely for other sports like table tennis and others, I think it’s time for Triathlon Australia to look after us age groupers and not the professionals. 

 

That is all TA look after, the high performance programme is Australian Sport Commission funded.

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On 10/12/2018 at 9:20 AM, Cat Lady said:

 

Then again, I didn't join TA for the insurance policy as I've got other personal policies which cover me.   Unfortunately, the regular emails exhorting people to join TA always stress how you will be covered by their policy while training and racing. 

Plenty of times on here people have asked TA to explain what the insurance covers - usually met with cicadas chirping and then someone saying to read the policy.

Might be time for the members and prospective members to put it another way - How much of the membership goes into the insurance policy premium say over the last 10 years and how much has been paid out over the same amount of time in claims?

I'm like Bored, haven't been a member since 2008/2009, been tempted to join my local club the last few years but can't justify the mandatory TA membership to do so while I don't know what the coverage is.

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I recently joined.......first time since about 1994. I joined basically for the support of the local tri club. And because I thought I would do a few extra races. 

Now.... did this guy have a pre-existing heart illness. If not.... why then would the heart attacked not be related to or caused by triathlon over exhaustion. 

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11 hours ago, Cottoneyes said:

I'm like Bored, haven't been a member since 2008/2009, been tempted to join my local club the last few years but can't justify the mandatory TA membership to do so while I don't know what the coverage is.

You can just join your club without joining TA.  At least you can with WSTC.

All the life members join this way.  But if you race you still need to pay the one day licence.

Basically they do it to do club training sessions and support the club.

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14 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Now.... did this guy have a pre-existing heart illness. If not.... why then would the heart attacked not be related to or caused by triathlon over exhaustion. 

It's personal accident insurance, not health insurance.  A heart attack, pre-existing conditions or not, is not an accident.  Having said that, the personal accident insurance through TA is a joke.

3 hours ago, Peter said:

You can just join your club without joining TA.  At least you can with WSTC.

All the life members join this way.  But if you race you still need to pay the one day licence.

Basically they do it to do club training sessions and support the club.

Technically they are in breach of the conditions of affiliation with TA.  In the event that the club needs to use their directors' insurance they may have issues.  It could also have implications for the insurance of coaches at club sessions too.  I certainly wouldn't be advertising the fact that it's going on.

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4 hours ago, Peter said:

You can just join your club without joining TA.  At least you can with WSTC.

All the life members join this way.  But if you race you still need to pay the one day licence.

Basically they do it to do club training sessions and support the club.

mmm interesting thought

We have a few Life Members up here, 3 of us race (and pay for annual TA licences) but 2 are retired from the sport and the "Life Membership" is really just in recognition of their service to the club. 

 

Perhaps STTAs / TA need to suggest to clubs to amend their constitutions to allow for a new class of memberships: "non-competing life members". It would be pretty rude to have to revoke those honorary life memberships - one of the few things that your average non-property owning not-for-profit can do for people who put in for years.

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2 hours ago, Stikman said:

It's personal accident insurance, not health insurance.  A heart attack, pre-existing conditions or not, is not an accident.  Having said that, the personal accident insurance through TA is a joke.

Technically they are in breach of the conditions of affiliation with TA.  In the event that the club needs to use their directors' insurance they may have issues.  It could also have implications for the insurance of coaches at club sessions too.  I certainly wouldn't be advertising the fact that it's going on.

Our club has its own insurance. They are covered. 

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22 hours ago, Peter said:

Our club has its own insurance. They are covered. 

I've often thought this might be the way to go.

An adult member pays nearly $200 to TA for their annual membership and only $55 of that goes to my club who lay on coaches for three training sessions a week, a club room, a subsidized club champs accommodation and food package, club races, time trials, aquathlons, a junior's program, a Christmas party, an annual awards dinner/dance and numerous other member benefits. 

TA on the other hand don't seem to give us anything other than third party liability insurance, yet still take nearly 75% of the joining fee. The club is doing the best it can to give value to its members and attract new members on a shoe string budget while TA are driving away members with the scary joining fee.

Prospective members love the club vibe and the training sessions we offer, but get scared off when they find out about the cost to join TA. It's a really hard sell.

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